8/16 DAVIDSON PMPS 98, +2-77, +4-51, +5-47, +5.5-57

Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-15-davidson-pmps-119-2-71-4-60-6-50-7-61.201163/

Ok, so now that my emotional day is over, I'm good with the RKD and have read up on it and just going to change a bit of the FF types to those that have less phosphorous. I didn't take a picture (cuz I do it all the time) but Davidson's face was covered in my pink lipstick from all the kisses I gave him, lol. He likes it! His limp is just about gone and my new supply of MSM/Glucosimine is here tomorrow and I have a wee bit left of the old hardened bits to give him.

In spite of his 113 this amps, I shaved a bit off his 3u dose as he's had a great week primarily in the greens with last night reaching 50. I can't increase him as he's gone too low over the past week and it will drop him into hypo territory. The VET said to reducing him to 1u as he looked at his SS and with the lab results there is no glucose in his blood <0.6 compared to last March of 13.3...........I told him I'd reduce him gradually as I've got him this far on the TR that I don't want to rush. He too said that Davidson could be a cat that just happens to be in the "blue" when the insulin is wearing off.

I'll see how this skinny dose of 3u does (okay 2.9u) and go from there.

what's interesting about the Dx of RKD is that is hit me as a REALITY..........I've already been preparing myself for down the road when they decide to visit the Rainbow, got info on where to take them to put them to sleep, urns, etc. and even paw prints in plaster.........nothing lives for ever so I was educating myself. Yes, although they take after me and are young in mind and sole, even the strongest succumb in the end and with this new DX it hit me in the face that changes are upon us. then as you know one thing leads to another and our mind goes crazy, LOL...............at least I now know what to expect in the event Harley has something!!

THANKS for all you kind words and encouragement..............Today is a golf day, but I'm not going as opted to stay home with my guys for a bit and read about RKD. Besides with as much that's in my head I couldn't hit the ball if it was the size of a basketball - so best enjoy the day and go out and ride my HD, which is about as close to being with my Guys as I can get since Harley and Davidson are right under my ass!

 

I'm glad the MSM/Glucosimine is still helping Davidson. I hope he keeps surfing on the new dose. Enjoy your time with the kitties today.

 

Hi Shawna! I can relate to the upset over the CKD DX. I had to come to terms with it too when I found out that Forrest was in Stage 2. The vet said he could hang in that stage for a long time and there are those here that have said the same thing. At this point there is nothing for me to do. His phos levels are good, so I just have to see what the routine urinalysis shows and if it progresses.

When I questioned how serious this journey was for Forrest The IM vet said something that made me a bit less upset over it, he said: " Something else is likely to take him".

We can only do what it is our power to help our babies and love them up. Loved the lipstick all over his face! Pictures please next time.

 

So sorry to read of Davidsons CKD...I had a civvie with CKD many years back..he did okay for several years...finally passed away one day - he had adopted us so I don't know how old he was...he was a sweetheart though...he used to allow my grandson (he was about 2-3 years old at the time) to lay on him on our sidewalk out front...we have many pics of them together - my grandson is 20 now - I'll never forget that sweet Mr. Emily. Lovely disposition.

Take care and love on your kittiehs...sending vines and hugs.

 

Davidson's phosphorous level is high, so trying to find a wet food with low amounts but all of them are high in carbs.............the other option is to get a phosphorous binder/ Anyone have experience on which food will work with this and FD and not be risky for the insulin BG's? I'm trying to get a jump on this and although no symptoms are really visible I want to nip this in the butt asap. Any suggestions on food, supplements, etc. or changes I need to do will be appreciated and I will also ask the Vet tomorrow when Harley goes in.........Well, I don't have parents or any family to look after so I can freely look after H&D as they become older and need more help. They are my #1 Guys and come before anything else (as we all thing the same).

At 16.5 yrs old, they've both been GREAT and other then regular vet check ups, a couple teeth cleaning and recent FD with Davidson - I've had it really good on vet bills..........so it's time to spend $$ on them for their care as they enter the senior years, haha, which apparently they entered long ago!! I'm so fortunate to have them both at 16.5 and really no health issues or problems. And who thought Harley Davidson Guys were bad asses!!

 

Shawna, what number is considered high in phosphorus in wet food, so I will know what to look for for you, what percentage domes it need to be below

 

Awesome food! Looks low in phosphorus and good for FD cats

 

LOL!

 

Glad you feel better today. Harley doesn't know the difference...he was the same before you found out. You just need to do some tweaks and go from there.

Enjoy the ride today!

 

Nutro wet food seems to be workable, phoned them.......there is also Royal Canin but have to call first for the specs and line is always busy.

Senior Soft Loaf Chicken, 2% carbs, 0.37 grams phosphorous per 100 grams or 3.3 grams per 1000 calories
Adult Duck pate 1.9% carbs, 0.23 grams phosphorous per 100 grams or 1.92 grams per 1000 calories

 

@Marje and Gracie any feedback on the LAB results would be appreciated when you have a moment to look.

 

I don't think you tag worked. It's not blue.

 

Thanks Carla, fixed it!!

 

Here is an older pic of Davidson with kisses! Yesterday's had tons more........

 

Hi Shawna. I’ve had lots of experience with CKD. Davidson is probably very early in the disease which for many can go on for YEARS! Most vets recommend high quality protein at this point rather than RX food. Good that is what your vet says if I’m reading this right. He’s still concentrating his ruined although not as well as in the past. I’d keep an eye on the protein in the urine and recheck his bw in a few months. Was his blood pressure checked? It’s good to get a baseline at this point. I actually asked my vet to do it for Max and we both were shocked at that point that it was high. He didn’t have any other illness at that point.

The phosphorus is nice and low. I think he might have been a little dehydrated with this slightly above albumin. The protein is a tad high but likely will be normal next time and not a concern at this point. Does he drink a little more than usual? I’d add a little water to his food if you don’t already.

I just saw hemolysis was +++. That means some test may be higher or lower than as presented. I can’t remember which but Marje will know.

 

These pictures were taken in 2002 as kittens a few months old, and then in 2014..........my they've grown. Davidson doesn't fit on their thingy anymore, lol

 

Thanks and Vet hasn't given me anything to go on as he gave me a phone call and I picked up the lab results, they were in surgery and I'll speak with them tomorrow. The phosphorous is HIGH.......my reading material says at 1.9 it is very high I should change food or give binders. Davidson is 1.8 now so buying him the food I mentioned above to at least get him on it in early stages. No blood pressure was taken and most likely should have been nor was urine sample. I mix a lot of water in their food at all times (even Harley's) and Davidson is drinking more now since he's back on insulin. I thought it was from coming out of remission but now it could be from CKD. His gums are not tacky and the scruff of hair goes back down quickly for now.

I'll be getting more info tomorrow and most likely will take a urine sample in for testing and take Davidson back for his BP test.

 

Your number m ears are different than the U.S. you are correct about phosphorus. I used aluminum hydroxide powder in the food. It’s supposed to be tasteless and no be careful d mine objected. I just added water. If diet alone works great. I guess the urine was the earlier test. I would want another to see if he is concentrating his urine.

 

A lot of the Weruva products are low in carb and low in phosphorus. Some are also lower in calories so you might have to feed more to get the same calories in. The sortable version of the food chart allows you to pick lower carbs and lower P and see what options there are. You want P ideally under 200.

I also used aluminum hydroxide, but I started by switching to low P foods and that helped for quite a while before I had to add a binder. Of course, not all cats will agree to a food switch first.

 

I just bought Nutro Senior Soft Loaf Chicken and Adult Soft Loaf Duck as I posted the percentage of phosphorous and carbs above...........7 cans of FF for the price of 1 can Nutro!! LOL........but if it works that's all the matters. Hopefully Harley can stay on FF.........

Does anyone know how to do the conversion from mg phosphorous/100 kcals (FF from Dr. Lisa's food chart) to grams /1000 calories?

 

Sorry I didn’t get back last night to discuss labs. We had a few things come up.

Yes, his P needs to come down and I agree with Elise that the aluminum hydroxide powder is a good one and is what I always used. Of course, I am a strong believer in hitting it from both sides so a lower P food plus the binder is important. It has been shown that P levels are linked to longevity and QOL so you want to keep it below 1.5 mmol/L if you can. The more you can get it towards 1.2, the better.

BTW, sometimes I recommend caregivers of CKD cats to discuss twice weekly, low dose administration of calcitriol to help with uremia symptoms and prevent secondary parahyperthryoidism. However, it has very limited value in cats whose P is 1.9 or higher (6 in US measurements) and Davidson is hovering right there right now.

His potassium is low so he needs a supplement. Many use NOW potassium gluconate but you must do this under the supervision of the vet and keep an eye on the levels because too high is as bad as too low.

Hematocrit looks great right now. I would definitely keep an eye on the protein in his urine. You might need to do a urine protein:creatinine ratio if it goes up or at least have the vet look at the microalbuminaria to start.

I also agree that you should have his BP checked whenever you go in to see the vet but don’t let it go longer than every 3-6 mos.

100 mg would be 0.1 gram. 1 kcal = 1000 calories. if you have a food that is 100 mg/100 kcal that would be 0.1 g/100,000 calories.

Regarding hemolysis of a sample, sometimes with the way the sample is taken (too fast, too slow, etc) hemoglobin can be leaked into the the solution outside of the red blood cells. This results in hemolysis and the more +++ signs you see, the more the sample is hemolyzed. Tests that can be affected by hemolysis include elevated blood potassium, phosphorus, CK, AST, and magnesium and decreased amylase and GGT levels. The lab sheet should tell if there was any interference or not so if it says “no interference” it means the hemolysis didn’t impact the serum levels.

Pls let me know if you have questions.

 

GREAT info here and stating to make sense of it all.

Davidson LOVES the low P, low Carb food.....Harley sneaks in a taste and likes it too........okay, so it's almost 4 times the price as FF but if that's what he needs then so be it! I'll look at the other choices and get a variety that are workable for him.

I'll ask the Vet about the binder you both suggested (thanks) and get that as well as inquire about the Potassium boost. No idea if the hemolysis was impacted but all these great questions will be presented to my Vet tomorrow.

** On a positive note (not that everything thus far isn't positive) Davidson is doing well on the reducie and I'll hold this for 3 days and then shave him down to 2.75 as long as he stays below 120 when he hits those daily blues. This morning didn't count since it was from the previous night wearing off and he certainly looks good tonight. The +7 snack of 1tsp food seems to work and hold his numbers until the amps.

QUESTION: should I or can I give Davidson any FF. The salmon pate is 1% carb and 267 mg/100 kcals phosphorous (not sure of the calculation to get it to mmol) and the next best FF is Turkey & Giblets at 2% carb and 355 mg/100 kcals

IF YOU THINK IT'S BEST TO JUST GIVE HIM THE Nutro food then I will, or if you suggest mixing it a bit I can do that too.

Always APPRECIATE the feedback...........

 

Personally, for where his P is, I think both of those are too high in P.

 

Are you referring to the FF or the new Nutro food I bought?

According to Dr. Lisa's updated chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/ it seems like there are a lot of choices that have the P under 250

 

If you want to take a look on Gizmo's SS there is a food tab with a bunch listed. Shows carbs, calories, phos level, price/oz, where I purchased etc.

This is what I finally found for potassium. Gizmo refuses all others . I have enough pot supplements to keep a track team in shape for years

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/renakare-2-meq-tablets-bottle-of-100.html

I crush up the tablet, dissolve in a bit of water and mix it into his food. Davidson may do fine on the powder Marje mentioned but Gizmo wouldn't touch food with it in it.

Here is the aluminum hydroxide I use 1/4 teaspoon/~3oz of food.
http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/aluminum-hydroxide-powder-usp-200-gram-jar.html

 

Thanks Lizzie.....I’ll print is all out and find it all. Davidson is good with powders and pills, it’s Harley that’s a PITA, haha.

Great SS....especially the “meds” ...wow, by the time we’re all done with this we can be PHD’s.....haha

 

FF and you want to try and get u dear 200mgP/100 kcal.

Excellent info on the potassium you use. If I needed it, I’d be tempted you try what you’ve used so as not to reinvent the wheel.

On aluminum hydroxide, the dose depends on the P level so it’s important for each person to calculate what their cat needs.