Bessie

12 year old short haired domestic she's my fiancee a real sweetheart I swear it's like shes almost human 2006 she was diagnosed with asthma and was put on steroids but hasn't need them for past two years it's been a year four months since I've known her and first met she was overweight months passed by and booboo passed away he meowed like a duck I miss that lil guy but they was real close so after his passing I thought the symptoms she started showing was due to that I didn't notice until later the always in the water bowl or peeing but she did lose weight took to a vet said she had diabetes put her on a diet and insulin I knew it was wrong why give her diet food when she needs to gain it so I took her to banfeild they did I guess a curve idk but I took her in at a 393 level they dosed her like 3 Times by two units increased her level up up up till 509 the first vet gave her insulin that nobody should give their loved ones and banfield has her on vetsulin at 6 units every 12 hours and to me seems rather high and said just feed her a high protein diet so did that and nothing she still drinking and peeing more then she should her coat still sheds and isn't you know like it should be but she is at 9 pounds I did get her weight back up but as of today she's not eating dry no more I went out and bought her fancy feast classic bought her a meter she does do great with taking the pricks like a champ I tested her at 435 fed her went up to 468 gave her shot it went down to 347 been up her butt waiting but seems as if she's not getting the quality out of life always find her laying in the kitchen or by the stairs she will play with me if I get her attention she has to walk up 20 steps to get to bedroom I think I need to make her go up and down them more then she does sometimes I fear the worst and sometimes I don't but things are going to change today because i don't want to loose her and she's like a child to my fiancee their bond is like I never seen a cat and woman share a love that they have for one another I just need to know what to do to keep her with us because I'm just not ready and never will be to say good bye. But their is 7 other cats she's been diagnosed with diabetes since before summer but I believe with this diet and me being able to monitor her now and hopefully a better insight on what I have and need to do for her she can go back to being a normal 12 year old I think she needs a better insulin I really do so and pointers ideas suggestions anything will be greatly appreciated and if I need to do more or if I'm doing something wrong pls let me know I don't have no experience in this and feed back would be great thank you

 

Changing diet can greatly reduce a cat's BG. My cat's came down about 200 points. 100 points is fairly common. Coupled with the high dose of of vetsulin I would not change her diet yet until you get some advice from the more knowledgable members here. You should probably change your subject to something like "changing diet, dosing and insulin advice needed" and add the question mark symbol. You might want to add something about the 6 unit dose in the subject line too.

 

Kenneth, that is one heartfelt note. Your dedication to Bessie and your fiance is so touching. And you have provided a good synopsis of what's been happening.

First of all, if you have removed all dry kibble from Bessie's diet just recently, you may see a profound decrease in her BG levels so you need to monitor her more closely now to be sure she is not dropping too low. Vetsulin, is an insulin that has a faster action than some of the other insulins we use here and often only lasts about 8 hours.

Do you test Bessie's BG before each shot? This is absolutely critical to keep Bessie safe. Given the food change, I would also strongly suggest you test Bessie two or three hours after her shot now to see what her BG is. You do not want Bessie's reading going below 50 on your meter. With the faster action of Vetsulin, you'll likely see a drop in that 2-3 hour period of time and sometimes it's quite a big drop. Getting those readings after the shot will tell you more about how the insulin is working for her and enable the folks here to assist you to get Bessie feeling better.

We have a spreadsheet available that you can use to log Bessie's readings and using it will enable folks here to help you better.
Here is a link to the instructions for the spreadsheet. THE AMPS is the BG reading before the morning shot and PMPS is the reading before the evening shot. There is a column to enter the amount of insulin given and then 11 columns labelled +1, +2, +3 etc up to +11 for both the day and night cycles (12 hour periods).These columns are used to list readings taken between shots. The plus numbers indicate how many hours post shot the reading was taken.

There are people familiar with Vetsulin here but I am not one of them so I am going to tag a few folks for you that I know have that experience. Editing the title of your message as suggested by Billysmom would also be an excellent idea and I would also include that the insulin is Vetsulin.

@Critter Mom @Elizabeth and Bertie @Squalliesmom Can you offer Kenneth some help here? I'm not familiar enough with Vetsulin to provide much assistance but his cat is on 6u twice daily which seems high to me and he's getting her onto a better diet!

 

Thank you for jumping in here Linda!

 

Thank you too! I know a bit but not enough about Vetsulin to be of much help. Eliz just saw Kenneth's first message so I am sure she will check on this message too.

 

Hi Linda; and thanks for drawing attention to this thread.
I replied briefly in Kenneth's other thread here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/i-need-help.149433/#post-1560593

@Kenneth white , 6 units is a phenonemally high starting dose!
If there is no history of ketones I would suggest reducing the dose dramatically. We usually suggest starting out with something like one unit and working up from there as necessary.

Sometimes (but to be honest, we see it quite a bit on this forum in newly diagnosed cats) high numbers can be exacerbated by too much insulin.
Strange but true...
This is because of an effect that we call 'bouncing' (AKA 'rebound'). When a cat's blood glucose drops lower than it's body is comfortable with, the blood glucose can swing up even higher in response to that. It's a protection mechanism. And the body can also release counter-regulatory hormones, the purpose of which is to keep the blood glucose high for a while. This looks like temporary insulin resistance. So it's easy to think that high numbers call for more insulin (which may not be the case at all....)

A minority of cats do need high insulin doses. But, in order to be safe, these should be arrived at by starting low and then working upwards toward a dose that is effective.

Eliz

 

Hi Kenneth! I'm glad to see you here in Health! I'm glad you told us all about your sweet baby and your sweet fiance too.

What kind of insulin did the vet first start using before you took her to Banfield?

I agree with Elizabeth and what I posted in your introduction - 6 units is a LOT of insulin. Would you be willing to start over at a smaller dose and see what happens? Do start the spreadsheet so we can all see what numbers you are getting on the 6 units then, if you do decide to lower her dose, the numbers she has then.

BREATHE! You're in the right place to get all the help you need to take care of her.

 

Hi Kenneth! I use Vetsulin for my 17 year old kitty, it's the only insulin he has been on. Like your Bessie, at first he still just lay around, had no energy, his coat was rough and shedding, he wouldn't even purr. I was sick with worry that I was going to lose him. But once I found the correct dosage that worked for him, he began to become his old self again. So don't lose hope!!! As all of us here have learned, this is a marathon, not a sprint, and sometimes changes come about more slowly than we might like.

Okay. Six units is a very high dose. My cat started out on two units 2x daily, and then the vet increased it almost immediately to 7 units twice a day! I started transitioning him to a wet food, low carb diet and his blood glucose dropped dramatically; he went from the 7U to 2U, and now he is down to mostly less than 1U 2x daily.

It is also very possible that, as Elizabeth and Bertie said, she is "bouncing" from too much insulin. Here is a link to a thread that helps explain what bouncing is and how to deal with it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/what-is-a-bounce.108796/
Some times a "bounce" can take several days to clear out of kitty's system.

Feeding a diet of low carb, canned food is vital to your kitty's overall well-being, but even more so to a cat with diabetes! Switching from dry to Fancy Feast Classic is a good choice, but try to do any food transition slowly so a snot to upset kitty's stomach, and to help prevent hypoglycemia (blood glucose levels too low-can be very dangerous!). It is also very important that you closely monitor Bessie's BG during this period, and after the switch, as well, so you can treat any potential hypos.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

It would be very helpful if you could download and use the spreadsheet we have available. Not only will it help you to track Bessie'a BG levels and see patterns, etc, that you might otherwise miss, it also helps us to help you, as it provides so much information at a glance, all in one place. It really is an invaluable tool!

The protocol we recommend here is no food for at least two hours prior to insulin, then just before shot-time, test, feed, then shoot. Since food affects kitty's BG we want to get a "true" test reading that is not influenced by food. With Vetsulin, it's best to allow for 20-30 minutes after feeding, to make sure kitty has a full tummy, as Vetsulin can cause fast, sharp drops in BG early in the cycle. Vetsulin is comprised of two agents; one is fast-acting and will frequently bring about that drop I just mentioned, usually around 2-3 hrs after a shot, but this can vary with each cat, the second is a longer-lasting agent that will usually cause a slower, gentler drop in BG somewhere around the 7 hr mark-again, it varies from cat to cat. I know a lot of people do not seem to get good duration from Vetsulin, but I have never had a problem with it, for me it seems to last just fine, sometimes more than 12 hrs.

It's great that you took the initiative and went out and bought a meter! It is important to test Bessie before every shot, and it's also a good idea to test a few times during the day until you find her nadir - the lowest point in her cycle. This number, along with pre-shot numbers, can help to determine the proper dosage for her.

In the end, though, I must caution that none of us are vets, and it is always best to run ideas by your vet before implementing them!

You seem to be on the right track with Bessie, for now. Please keep us updated, and do try to set up a spreadsheet, so we can better advise you!

Lucy

 

To all watching this thread, please see Kenneth's newest thread, too:
Wondering about a few things