Wondering about a few things

My cat is 12 and was prescribed vuselin twice daily and at 6 units also told to use the u 40 it's 20 units and the needle is so long Wondering if i can obtain a shorter needle my vet said no I really really don't like my vet also what's the next best insulin so I started her with fancy feast classic turkey and giblets she loves it but wants to eat it like it's her only meal and how much should she get she ways nine so as of now I've given her half and my 22 year old bunkin the other half is that to little I work second shift so when I got home her glucose read was still the same as when I left 347 348 but on my bbreaks I would call and ask about her and all day she had spunk in her wasn't laying around so after I fed her I did another test and 290 I was like yes yes yes so I didn't give her insulin because I didn't want her to keep dropping and dropping I was happy but a lil worried too so after a couple hours I had to test her again just to make sure it wasn't going south and it spiked up to 380 so on that note why?? Should I've given her at least something can you even do that when treating with insulin. Change how much you give her and 6units is such a large dose could so much insulin harm a cat overtime I think she's on her third bottle since diagnosed and like vet said 6units is what she got with the other two and I know it's rare but her eyes are cloudy in certain lighting could this be a worst case scenerio? How much is to much when testing glucose I'm doing the pricking of the ear but two ears is all she has I did get Neosporin with pain reliever and I do rotate and I do take her to a certain area of home to do it I know I need to do the chart to give a better outlook on her readings and insulin dosage hopefully today before work I can get it started I think I'm gonna see another vet but she gets highly upset leaving the house real nervous but even now she still up and at it

 

Also I forgot what level am I aiming to control earlier someone replied and said no insulin if 200 or under is that always the case I just wanna be sure and also I want to thank everyone for everything and thanks so so much for this website and everyone who is a member any input would be outstanding and tips and tricks would be much appreciated and anything that anyone feels I should know or should be doing pls let me know any information I can obtain will be helpful everyone so far has put a lot of peace to my mind and given me a better outlook on how to care for mine I can't thank you enough

 

Hi Ken, and welcome. I can't give you dosing advice as I'm not comfortable doing that, but I will say that in my opinion, you need to find a new vet. If there are more vets in your area, please call around and try to find one that's well trained in treating feline diabetes. It sounds like your current vet didn't do very good job of educating you and it's really important that you know all you can about it. You'll have a lot more peace of mind if you do.

I will say that typically on this board, they recommend that as a beginner, you not shoot below 200. The normal BG range varies according to who you ask, but I believe it's 65 to 170 for a cat. But when on insulin, you want to keep them closer to 250 or less. If the numbers are consistently getting lower, your kitty could be getting closer to remission, which is the ultimate goal.

Yes, there are different needles that you can use, they're like 1/2 inch long. I'm sure others will chime in before long and have more answers for you.

 

More experienced peeps will pop on soon to advice on dosing. There are shorter needles you can get. My vet likes the longer ones also because they are comfortable with them. And frankly they can't keep all the different ones in house. It wouldn't be cost effective for them.

Mine didn't know there were 1/2 u syringes. I had to show him how we get insulin out of the pens, as they are use to vials.

My vet isn't a specialist in FD as a lot aren't. He has been excited to learn as I am.

What you use at home, they don't need to know. ADW.com has a lot of options. Wal-Mart has the shorter with 1/2u markings.

Good luck.

 

Hi, Kenneth. This is most likely cataracts, which is pretty common in older kitties; so don't think you need worry too much about that right now.

But about that Vetsulin dose at 6 units ... Yowza, that IS a LOT of insulin and you are quite right to be concerned! One thing some vets don't take into consideration (the ones not well-educated about feline diabetes, I mean): Our cats can spike very high blood glucose numbers during a vet visit. This is called "stress hyperglycemia," and the BG# the vet gets when your kitty is stressed at the clinic can even be more than 100 points higher than you would get at home when testing your cat at home where she's more comfortable & relaxed.

You wrote that after you fed her she was at 290 on the meter, then 380 a couple of hours later. The food will raise blood glucose for the next couple of hours, so that spike you saw was not really abnormal; we would expect to see it rise after feeding.

Here's some important info: At Vetsulin shot-time, please do that blood glucose test BEFORE you feed --- not after you feed. So the procedure is: BG test/ then feed/ then shoot, only if BG is at 200 or more, right after the meal. (You can also give the insulin shot while kitty is eating if that's easier for you.) It was very smart that you withheld that dose because (if I'm reading correctly what you had written) her blood glucose had dropped from 347-348 to 290 after you'd fed her ... so I shudder to think what could have happened if you'd shot the 6 units Vetsulin that your vet had told you to shoot!

Kenneth, we have a saying around here: "Better too high (glucose) for a day than too low for a moment." We want your kitty to be safe while being treated, and a cat's body can handle high blood glucose much better than it can hypoglycemia. And as your kitty's blood glucose is already reading lower at home than it did at the vet's office, I'd be more inclined to "start low (with the dose) and go slow (with any dose increase)" than to give that whopping amount of insulin your vet recommended.

So can you tell us what time your kitty's next pre-shot blood glucose test will be - and which time zone you're in, please?

I would like you to report that number to us here BEFORE you decide on the amount of the dose, so that you can get some guidance from the very experienced advisers here @ FDMB before giving your kitty any more insulin. Again, all of us here @ FDMB want your kitty to be treated safely - and we can already tell that you are VERY concerned about that, too! I am so glad you chose to tell us what's going on.

P.S. As others above have mentioned: Sounds to me like finding a new vet would be a good thing.

Will post again re: feeding and your kitty's weight shortly ...

 

FYI folks, the links to Kenneth's previous two threads are here:
I need help
Bessie

Eliz

 

That's a very good low-carb choice (3%) for Bessie; I'm so glad she likes it. As the cans of Fancy Feast are 3 oz, and you said you gave her about half at the last meal - so that's about 1.5 oz. So now I have a few questions for you, as you say Bessie weighs about 9 pounds right now - this can help you assess Bessie's optimum weight: body condition chart

1) What size is Bessie's skeletal frame: Is she big-boned? Small frame? Medium-size frame? (Because 9 lbs. or a very small-frame kitty can be too much; it can be too little on a large-frame cat, but can be just about right on a mid-sized cat.)
2) How much Fancy Feast is Bessie eating every 24 hours?
3) And at what times of day do you usually feed? (twice a day, several times a day, etc.)*

*Please note: It's best that you do not feed anything in the two hours directly before AMPS/ PMPS (the usual shot times, 12 hours apart). The reason is that we do not want food artificially raising the blood glucose # you get at pre-shot BG test time; we want to know what that blood glucose # is with no food currently in her system before feeding the meal/ shooting insulin if at 200 or more. (The only time you would feed in the 2 hours right before a scheduled insulin dose would be if you were dealing with a hypoglycemic event; and in that case, you would end up skipping the dose anyway!)

Most diabetic kitties behave at mealtime as though they are starving until they're well regulated - it's the diabetes "talking."
Will have some more re: amounts to feed after you've answered the questions above (as those will affect what I tell you.)
Thanks! - Robin

 

@Elizabeth and Bertie - Thanks, Eliz! I think we need a lot of experienced eyes on this to help Kenneth with dosing Bessie!

 

Hi Kenneth,

I have not used VEtsulin but I am very familiar with PZI/ProZinc which acts very similarly. The difference is that it is a milder insulin. As others have said, it is necessary to test before food (to get a true value before you decide on the dose) and then feed, at least some, so she has food in n her tummy as Vetsulin does has a steep fast drop, in some cats. We do suggest not shooting under 200 until you are comfortable with testing, she is acclimated to the new lower carb food and you have some data to know what her levels might so.

As you can tell, we are all nervous about the large dose. Most cats here start at one unit and slowly increase, as testing indicates. Most cats here, after they have been on insulin awhile get 2 units or lower. I agree with others about lowering the dose, especially as you are changing the diet. (Our Oliver dropped 100 points from the pm to am shot after switching; some cats have a more drastic drop.)

I can help you with your spreadsheet if you want. Check your private messages on the top RH side of this page. It is so helpful for you and us to see the big picture.

So, don't shoot under 200. Instead, stall. Wait 20 minutes with food and retest. If she is rising and at 200, then you can give the shot but probably a little less than the previous shot. We'd like to see a smile curve, going down from the preshot number about 50% and the slowly rising to about the same level as 12 hours earlier. Your numbers will let you know if that is how the Vetsulin is going to work for her. Happily it does for some cats. For others, it can have the fast onset, dropping in the first 3 hours or so. We can help control that with when you give her a snack. Sometimes the nadir is early; we'd like to see it midway: 5-7 hours after the shot. Then a slow rise up. Sometimes it is a fast rise with Vetsulin. Again, we just have to figure it it her pattern - your tests will do that.

If she were mine, I'd halve the dose, test often - always before the shot and somewhere 4-6 hour after and then evaluate the dose. It may be that she needs more than the usual cat, but it can also be that she is getting too much and bouncing around from highs to lows.

 

Hi Kenneth,

You've already had some great input from other members. I'd just like to clarify a couple of general queries not yet covered.

1. Insulin is typically given twice a day, with 12 hours between each dose.

2. Once you have given a dose, you should not give any more insulin until the next dose is due. Doing otherwise would result in an overdose (dangerous). NB: this also applies if, for any reason you may have had a hiccup when giving the injection - what people here call a 'fur shot' - because even though you may be sure that the injection went wrong, you can never be sure how much of the dose your kitty may have received.

3. In many, if not most, cats Vetsulin's period of effect is relatively short compared to other longer-acting insulins (although every cat is different!). In the early days of treatment, with a good dose you are likely to see a fairly high number for the pre-shot test, a markedly lower number anywhere from 2 hours after the dose to perhaps 7 or 8 hours after the dose. After that, the dose tends to wear off and you will see a higher number at the next pre-shot test. If you were to plot the blood glucose numbers on a graph, a Vetsulin curve is usually cup-shaped.

Bessie is blessed to have you caring for her.


Mogs
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See my signature links Vet Interview Topics, Secondary Monitoring Tools, and the Human Glucometer and Veterinary Reference Lab Reference Numbers and Notes.