? CONFUSED!! AMPS is Low but PMPS is High

Previous thread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ut-pmps-is-high-readings.226588/#post-2546986

 

Tiger is 18, FF, Friskies, Nibbles on Dry Blue Wilderness. Get's a B12 pill daily. His rear legs are alittle weak on Zobaline for about a week now. Doc put him on Lasix 12.5mg. 2x a day for small amount of fluid in chest cavity, subq fluids as needed. Currently on Vetsulin 7u. The last couple AMPS readings have been in the BLUE range(No Shoot) Here is where the confusion comes in...His PMPS are RED OR BLACK. You Guys think it's one of the meds he's on??

 

Going to do readings every 3hrs. When he starts to go up should I give him insulin? And how much would I give him then? I was told as long as the shots are 12hrs apart it doesn't matter what time of the day it is given.

 

223+4

 

Are you testing for ketones if you are skipping shots? You do this by buying a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and dipping the test strip into a urine sample, then reading it exactly 15 seconds later against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.

I see you went from Prozinc to Vetsulin. I don't like chopping and changing the insulin, but have you thought about Lantus or Levemir insulin? It is a longer lasting, more gentle insulin and it might give you better munbers.
Vetsulin is not the best insulin for cats, its really an insulin for dogs, and the duration is not as good as either Prozinc or Lantus/Levemir.

Part of your problem could be the dry food you are feeding. How much dry food does Tiger get? It is high carb so would be raising the BG levels.

Are you able to test at night at all? Cats often drop lower at night and unless you are testing, you would have no idea how low they are testing. Getting a before bed test done each night will tell you if he is likely to drop low overnight. If the before bed test is lower than the preshot, then it would be wise to set the alarm and get up and test again later.

Looking at his SS, Tiger is getting a lot of red and black preshots. This can be from lack of duration of the Vetsulin or from bouncing.
The reason he has had a few blue AMPS, I think, is because he has dropped low during the pm cycle preceding the blue preshot and he is just on the way back up. Then he goes up to black because he has had no insulin during the am cycle....he could also be bouncing a bit from the lower numbers.

 

A vicious cycle.

 

Yes I test for Ketones when I can get to him before he pees. I have like 10 litter boxes hard to watch all of them at once. His ketones have been fine..no trace.
Went to the Vetsulin because the Prozinc was doing nothing. Went with the Vetsulin because faster working and yes..I know it's a in and out insulin. But you saw how high his numbers were..Doc said we GOT to get him down. I've done sooooo much testing with Tiger different times day night and several 24hrs readings. And I'm not changing the insulin at this time. That would be the 3rd one..
He eats at most a half a cup of dry a day. He doesn't have alot of teeth so his main food source is canned.

 

Ok 450+7 Now What???? @Deb & Wink, @Bron and Sheba (GA) Sheba (GA) and @Chris & China (GA)

 

Maybe cut back on the dry a little bit each day? Give him a bit more canned food to substitute.

But you have so many other rescue cats, besides Tiger (Jazz man is one of them) , not sure how practical taking away the dry food would be.

Is the dry left out all the time, for free feeding? Only during the day? Only during the night?

OK. you got a 450 at +7, Now what? Next shot is not due for 5 hours.

 

Should I give him alittle canned food? Then shoot how much insulin?

 

Right usually shot at 11pm or Midnight

 

Free feeding 24/7

 

Are you trying the every 8 hour dosing?

 

No 12hrs Doc said no on the 8's

 

Should I just do 8's anyway? Whether she said yes or no? Because he is at the 8 hr mark now

 

Do you want to change his shot times to earlier than the usual 11am/11pm?

 

Should I just make now his Pm shot?

 

Yes, lets try that...these guys work around my schedule..eating etc..real quite at night which is opposite of other homes lol

 

Why don't you go ahead and shoot at 8pm/8am? Will that schedule work for you? It would also allow you to get more tests on the PM cycle since it wouldn't keep you up all night

Might be worth trying a 6.5U dose and see if you can get it where he can get 2 shots a day in.

 

I'll make it work..You know me, I will do anything I can for my furbabies. Sounds like a plan.

 

OK...you'd put the test you get at 8pm as your PMPS on your spreadsheet.....put something like ### @ + 20 (since it's been 20 hours since the last shot)

That way your +1, +2, +3's still correspond to the number of hours since the shot.

 

Okie Dokie...8pm is now his new pm shot time.

 

do I do the weird characters in the 11th hour box?

 

I did it for you so you'll know how to do it next time

 

Cool Cool Thank You My Friend

 

243+3

 

That’s a big drop. Are you able to get another test in, in a couple of hours?

 

Ya gonna do a +6 in about an hour

 

Now you can see why he is driving me mad

 

182+6 and gave him a Lasix. Going to set my alarm and get a +8 reading

 

Did you manage to get a +8?

 

250+8

 

Man overslept just now 560+13

 

I'm an awful Mom, I'm failing him..he has had to be but 3rd in my ailing furbabies for about a week now. I'm so sorry Tiger. I promise to do better

 

Jacque, CUT YOURSELF SOME SLACK. Rant over.

You are not an awful mom. You are not failing Tiger. You have so many other responsibilities in life with all your other sick animals to take care of, plus you are exhausted my dear woman. Plus this damn virus has us all worried and on edge. You should have seen my crying jag this morning. I totally lost it.

Tiger is bouncing again this morning, from those low yellows yesterday am and last night. Nothing to do but wait it out.

Patience pants to hold you over and make you smile, for at least 1 second. I hope.
Every color in the rainbow, to remind you that after the rain, rainbows do magically appear.

 

Now you are making me cry. Thank You for giving me hope, I need that ALWAYS!!
I am switching my script for panic attacks(Doxepin) to daytime so it won't knock me out so much at night. If I need to I can always take a Xanax at night as a sleep aid. Last year to current time..I have had 4 furbaby losses. All different reasons. The hubby got a dui in Wis and Illinois also punished him for it, no drivers license here for a year. He also burned his hands from a gas grill. We are so totally broke. I couldn't cope, suicidal thoughts and panic attacks started. I would sit in a corner in the fetal position for hours..thats when I knew I needed some meds.

 

At least you realized that you needed help , and sought out that help.

Counseling? Sometimes talking out what you are going through with other people is helpful. Don't know if there are any on-line counseling groups that you could use. Something to think about.

There is hope and life in this world to still appreciate what we do have. Sometimes, those loses become overwhelming and we do what we have to do to get better.

 

Dear Jacque, Ohhh how I remember those days! Sigh Believe me you are NOT alone. I am no way an expert Trouble was eons ago (heck spreadsheets hadnt even been invented) it seems. But theres one thing I learned here. I was doing the best I could, and you are too! Its so easy to blame ourselves when things arent going right. But from what I've read in this thread you are going above and beyond what a lot of others do. Tiger is LUCKY to have you as his partner.
Now theres one glaring thing I've read and that is the use of dry food. I was hesitant from pulling that away from Trouble because thats all he knew. The people that dumped him only fed dry and not on a regular basis. It was NEVER in a clean bowl and never dumped when it got too old. But thats ALL he knew. Well? After nothing I was doing worked and his numbers remained in the highs. I put on my big girl panties (begrudgingly) and at the urgency of people here took it away. It was like magic. His numbers dropped. and he became manageable. I am not saying this happens to every cat.
I ALSO say this with caution because you really have to test closely. Making sure he doesnt drop dangerously low. BUT ITS DOABLE! If I can do it...trust me...anyone can. I didnt come here to preach the good or bad about dry foods but what I mean to say is, there IS light at the end of this tunnel. YOU CAN AND WILL DO THIS. and one day you will be here helping others with Tigers stories.
HANG IN THERE,
Listen to these folks! They all have been there and back.
Heed their advice because believe me they ALL want the best for you and Tiger
omg Ive written a novel! sorry
hang in there girl! its going to get better!
jeanne

 

I belong to several panic attack groups. They have helped enormously, it helps to vent with no judgement and get encouragement from others that know what you are going through. My panic attacks got so bad that I thought I was having a heart attack..much better now. My Doc first prescribed Lexapro(side effects too harsh) and then Zoloft same thing..side effects. And now Doxepin which seems to be helping me somewhat at least the side effects aren't as bad.

 

you are not an awful mom and you are not failing him! You have been through so much in such a short time. I think you are an amazing cat mom and are going above and beyond to help him and all the others in your care Please always feel free to vent here too, no judgement

 

Jacque, believe it or not I have some idea of how you're feeling. Multiple losses, PTSD and anxiety is part of my baggage but I keep that stowed away because like you someone else needs me. You know deep down you're not an awful mom and I know it because it's all over your profile.
You're in a safe place here where people care and it's okay to cry, then we start again the next day.

 

I wish I could totally cut dry out but I have 20+ rescued cats, totally impossible financially, and some of them refuse canned food and some only like certain brands and flavors. Some of them get canned food for breakfast and dinner. It already takes me 2hrs to feed the kids. Thank you so much for your encouragement and you betcha I'm listening to advice from the veterans.

 

You should see my fb profile page and I also have a group where I post all my kids lol

 

Yes Jacque, you basically run a small animal rescue. Anyone with that many cats, not to talk about the dogs, is a small rescue.

Keep doing the best you can. We are here for you.

 

Just in case it's a medication or a certain food that Tiger is eating..I've been adding notes(it looks like a folded dog ear lol) to the cells in his ss.

 

Sorry I didnt take the time to read your history. OH my gosh you ARE a live walking on earth, ANGEL! Nice to meet you!
You HAVE found the best place, to help you, help Tiger! We WUVS Angels here

 

Np..no my kids are the Angels. Nice to meet you too.

 

Jacque, I've been thinking of a way to say this without inserting too much of my own story, without a Dr. Phil "I know what's best for you" and more than anything it's just a thought from a new friend.
Many years ago I thought I absolutely needed to be a knight in shining armor to any woman in need. Just got divorced? Car in flames? Three screaming kids? I'm your man! Of course that never ended well because I just wasn't cut out to be that kind of person. That was a painful lesson and it took far too long to learn it. In 1994 I had the opportunity to move to a new job thousands of miles away. I packed up, took my cats to the airport and left my stalker behind (hopefully).
Let's skip ahead 25 years. On my first date here, me with my very long ponytail, I met Cynthia who also adored cats. Last week was our 25th. At one time we had a family of nine in the house but unfortunately they were all born with cardiomyopathy, four lost in one winter, another four in the following two years, then the dog. Together we have lost 13 cats and a dog, cried a lot of tears. I didn't learn some "life lesson", I did what I had to do. I'd do it again tomorrow but now I know what that special kind of pain is. Losing Nigel got me a PTSD diagnosis.
Just please be careful how much you take on before it breaks you. I know it's not in your heart to say no and we can't say no either. Instead of building a shrine in the backyard we now have five cats, most were abused, and we fostered a dog for a year. I have other problems that don't matter right now but this is my limit right now.
We need a healthy and happy Jacque here who has managed to keep her heart of gold and her sanity. Just please be good to yourself.
Dickson

 

What's weird or odd is that we always have a steady 20 cats. If one passes away we end up taking in one. @Noah & me (GA) The Universe must be telling us that that number is enough maybe. And I actually have stopped counting them yearly, ya know what mean? It fluctuates so much. For instance just recently we took in my Mom's dog Lady about 2mos ago. My Mom has Alzheimer's(just 2wks ago we had to move her to a Asst. Living Memory Unit in Ottawa IL.) she started to get violent, toward's Lady and her caregivers(including my son) I won't go into the details about her. And just last week we had to let Maxine go. She was a rescue with breast cancer. You see what I'm sayin? Weird!!! The ones we have now are sick, elderly, antisocial(not homable) or have behavioral problems. We don't plan any of the rescues. Anyway...I could go on and on. Thanks sooooo much to ALL of your MENTAL support, understanding and encouragement. LOVE YOU ALL!!!

 

Oh..189+8

 

Hi Jacque.... we have all overslept! None of us is perfect.....thank goodness! you can only do what you can only do. Be kind to yourself!
So glad you found us!
We are all here to help and support each other.

 

Jacque, I hate to ask this, but threads that get too long can cause problems. So we are trying to ask people to create a new post when the old one gets to post #50 or longer, since we don't want to cause problems with the database behind the message board.

Please start a new thread, and link this old one at the top. For history and continuity.

Thanks.

 

Yeppers I saw that too.

 

New Thread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/tigers-wild-ride-on-insulin-train.227475/

 

Man...sorry for what you are going through
I try not to vent here, I use fb groups for that lol. Because I have a sailors mouth lol.

 

You think you have a sailors mouth, you should hear me, plus being from New Jersey doesn't help lol