Diving - intervened to prevent hypo

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sarah Smith, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    102, 30 min after the 107, but dont think the syrup/gravy has kicked in yet, only did like a 1/2 teaspoon.... going to put it at +5, its very close to that and my times are getting screwy
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can join the chat feature. We just need to copy and paste it in here as we go, when possible.

    upload_2016-4-29_1-19-53.png
     
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  3. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    As long as you're close with the times it's fine. I've gone through that confusion myself so don't sweat it. Well obviously Robin was right to recommend the syrup and you to give it. See, your instincts are bang on!
     
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  4. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Ok, test again in about another 15 minutes & report that number. If he's not rising by then, we may want a wee bit more food - we'll just have to see.
     
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  5. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    I've lost an hour somewhere....just put that 102 in the +5 but we are at +6
     
  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    My browser goes wonky every so often when I get too many tabs open so I'm not going to chance killing it using chat.
     
  7. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    fixed ss, didnt test at +1 and accidentally put the numbers there first....sorry for the confusion! had everything an hour off
     
  8. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Might be able to go with half and half low and high carb - a teaspoon of each.
    Here's what the time, +hour, glucose, and drop per hour look like:
     

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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
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  9. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    so with what happened tonight, should I be looking at a 1u starting dose for him, or lower then that? His shot times still 5 and a half hours off, but I'm wondering if 1u will still be to much for him from here on out...
     
  10. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Well, first we need to make sure he's made it to at least 200 by shot time in the morning. And then ... after an episode like this one, I'm a little leery about the dose. Maybe 1U, maybe even less ... we may want to get @Sue and Oliver (GA) to weigh in on this in the morning if she's available.
     
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  11. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    103 at 6 + 20
     
  12. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    After dropping so fast, he may bounce and be high in the morning.
    He may also be more sensitive to the insulin.


    upload_2016-4-29_1-49-47.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
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  13. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    fed him a little wet food with that last test, just 2 teaspoons
     
  14. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    On first glance it appears to me that 1u of Vetsulin wasn't doing much but then the lowest readings could have been earlier than most of the mid-cycle tests and we're just not seeing them because the drop with Vetsulin usually is +3 or +4 post shot. Cooter obviously has a flair for the dramatic so is it possible he went much lower very quickly and then bounced back up quickly and what looks like a lack of response to Vetsulin is actually bouncing? BJM any thoughts?
     
  15. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking you should follow BJ's suggestion now. A little more food on board may help.
     
  16. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    "PZI is long lasting insulin generally remaining in the system for approximately 12 hours per shot. When first starting TR, onset usually occurs between +2 and +3 hours after shot; nadir is typically from +4 to +6 hours after shot, and by +8 hours after shot, the insulin begins to leave the system. These time lines are the norm and are likely to change as your cat begins to heal: EDID - every cat is different."

    Do you think we will be in the clear after 8 hrs? or on the uphill climb anyway?
     
  17. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Interesting you brought this up, as I was thinking the same thing. It's possible ...
     
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  18. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, did you see my post #115 above? (Did you give a little food, as per BJ's earlier suggestion that I'd referenced?)
     
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  19. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    You may see him start heading up; that is the reason to begin using some low carb food, as it won't shoot him to the moon.

    If you feel so inclined, you can go back to the 1st post in this thread and revise your subject to something like "Diving - intervened to prevent hypo".
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
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  20. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    sorry, thought I'd answered it... did give him some food with that last test 15 or so min ago
     
  21. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    My ISP keeps shutting down, may or may not hold for me. Will either of you @BJM , @MrWorfMen's Mom be able to stick around for awhile? (I hope?)
     
  22. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    It helps to note the feeding and carb level, either in the notes on the right side, or as comments on the cells.

    I can stick for a little bit.
     
  23. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Fixed the title, gonna test again in a minute....hes not happy with me tonight lol, all day at the vet and has been getting lanced all evening
     
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  24. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure Cooter and Bat-Bat would have plenty of complaining to do to each other, if they were ever to get together. ("...And she just keeps pokin' me in my ear - first one, then the other - over & over & over again!:mad:")
     
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  25. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    146 @ 6 +50
     
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  26. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    YAY!!!!!!!:D:):joyful::woot:
     
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  27. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Latest numbers:
    upload_2016-4-29_2-41-33.png

    At this point, feed low carb food only.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
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  28. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Robin&BB I'll hang around too! Won't sleep until I know he's safely out of the woods anyway!
     
  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    OOO! Just saw last number! Yippee! Go Cooter! :D:joyful:
     
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  30. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Robin if you get disconnected, thank you so much, would have been lost without you all tonight! Think I'm good to stick with half hour tests for a while longer??
     
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  31. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    It looks like he is starting up. Unless he seems really hungry, don't feed, and snag another test in 30 minutes. Let's see if he'll hold the numbers.
     
  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think I'd do another in 30 minutes and then if he is still rising you can probably hold off for an hour unless of course you notice any strange behaviour.
     
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  33. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Will do...he didnt act strange through any of this, just sort of "whatever" attitude when I bothered him. Thank you for staying up with us through this, it means alot to me to know theres caring people out there!
     
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  34. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    That sounds good. It has taken me the last 10 minutes just to get this ISP to blip back on, so I am glad you're in great hands, Sarah. And seems you & Cooter have come "out o' the woods" at last.:joyful:

    You're a real trooper, Sarah - wonderful job tonight!!!:bighug:
     
  35. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, . Cooter never went too low.... he just very dramatically suggested he was on his way. You've done great dealing with this baptism of fire! Great job! :D
     
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  36. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, it might be a good idea to get 3 rising tests in a row without any steering with food before totally letting your guard down especially with such a dramatic performer! Let's see where he is at the next test and then decide.
     
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  37. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'll be back in a couple of minutes. I need a bedtime snack! :)
     
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  38. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Just got a 207, half hour since last test
     
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  39. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Just got one myself!
    I'm going to have to crash shortly - I'm up about 3 hours later than usual!


    upload_2016-4-29_2-50-19.png
     
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  40. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Oh, good - all that fuel you put in the fire just kicked in!
     
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  41. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I just did (what I hope is) my last Bat-Bat steering session for the night. Will have to check her in the next hr., though, so will try to pop onto your thread if my crappy ISP will let me. Otherwise, will assume you'll do just fine over the rest of the night - because I'm sure that you will.;)

    P.S. Marvelous job, team!!!:D
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ditto!
     
  43. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Thank you all again! Going to check him again in a half hour, if hes still climbung I'm gonna try to nap as well... almost time to get up for work if i hadnt taken off
     
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  44. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  45. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Robin, BJ and Linda, I cant say it enough, THANK YOU! I think he will be good for the night. Robin, tell bat-bat Cooter is playing along with the intervention, she needs to as well! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  46. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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  47. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you are in the clear so if he's still rising in a half hour, I think you are OK to catch some zzzzz's too. If he's still at the same or lower number, give him another bit of LC food and test again but I doubt that will happen. You are quite welcome Sarah! You did a great job tonight! :bighug::bighug:
     
  48. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I hope the graphs were helpful to see what was happening.
     
  49. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    :facepalm::bighug: Hopefully I don't have to do it EVER again
     
  50. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    They were great, and the drop per hour chart too, thanks for putting them together!
     
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  51. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    That was much more exciting than you needed it to be!

    I did go back and edit some of the graphics when you noted you'd lost an hour and corrected that.

    In case you have Excel, I've attached the spreadsheet.

    If not, save it to your device, then upload it to Google Drive so you can see what I did.


    I'm going to crash now; I'll check back when I'm up again.
     

    Attached Files:

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  52. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I hope you never have to do it again either but if you do, you now know how! And there will be folks around to keep you company should you want help staying awake or need advice. :D:bighug::bighug:
     
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  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sweet dreams all! :bighug:
     
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  54. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Good night Linda!
     
  55. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    249... hes good... g'night BJ
     
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  56. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm here.
    Gonna have a quick read through. Looks like Sarah has had quite an adventure!
    .
     
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  57. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    How's your gal doing Robin?
     
  58. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Thanks Elizabeth, everyone was wonderful walking me through his dive, now hes going the other way lol...
     
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  59. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Just now tested her. She's at 95 now, so I think I can finally get some sleep (she's on Lantus TR, so runs at lower numbers overall). So happy that you and Cooter turned the corner. And just wanted to say: I love his avatar photo - he's just adorable! I hope you get a little sleep tonight, too, Sarah! Will see you tomorrow ...:bighug:
     
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  60. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    A huge Thanks to Mogs, BJ, Robin, MrWorfMen's mom, and Tuxedo Mom for walking me through this dive... lets NOT do this again!!! :facepalm: Time for a nap :confused:
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  61. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, well done, you!!! you must be exhausted...
    I'm so glad your kitty is OK. :)

    ...And what an amazing thread. Truly fantastic work from everyone. This is FDMB at its very best. Utterly heartwarming.... :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    And BJ, @BJM I just love those charts....
     
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  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Sarah!

    Glad to see that all's well; told you you were in good hands! :)

    You did great! Enjoy your well-deserved nap. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  63. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Well it looks like there was a PJ party last night! I was fast asleep...it's been a long week.

    Sarah, you did GREAT! And I agree with Eliz. What a heartwarming thread! I love seeing a group come together to help someone out...and to help each other out!
     
  64. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I was merely a lurker through all this. Sarah had quite the introduction to using Prozinc, but with her good sense to test early and the help of the wonderful members who stayed through the adventure all turned out well I imagine there are going to be some tired people today, but they all did a super job on keeping Cooter safe.

    Sarah please post with the morning preshot number before shooting so that you can get some feedback on the dosing for today.


    :bighug:
     
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  65. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I suspect he may be through the roof this morning in response to dropping so fast and to the extra carb loading.
    Sarah
    When

    1) the glucose drops fast, or
    2) the glucose drops to an unfamiliar number (like, say, below 100 mg/dL after being in the 400s pretty consistently), or
    3) the glucose drops to a hypoglycemic number,
    it triggers hormones to protect the body and these release stored glucose (glycogen). This results in high glucose numbers for up to 3 days or so. We call this 'bouncing'.
    Also, when a cat has a near hypo event, or goes hypoglycemic, he may be more sensitive to insulin after that.

    If he is back up in the 400s this morning, you might do 1 unit if you are home monitoring, to see how he handles it, or 0.5 units to be conservative if you can't monitor. We say "Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment".
     
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  66. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Did anyone get the license plate of the truck that hit me last night? I feel like I was the one on the BG freefall last night, woke up not feeling well.... didnt do his shot this morning, just checked him, we are an hour over his normal time and its 590..... thinking of just starting again at 6pm, after I have a chance to replenish the strip stock and get some high carb food back in the house
     
  67. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  68. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Got some the other day, and have found out hes not too shy, and the strips are just long enough lol... he's already gone this morning, but I will check him when he's up in the box again... if I give him .5 now should I switch to a 18 hour schedule to get him back on time.. was going to work on pulling his time back a half hour anyway this weekend to 530ish
     
  69. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sarah,

    It looks like you had a dramatic welcome to ProZinc. How fantastic that you were testing! What a wonderful job all your advisors did helping you, and you did - not panicking but staying calm and listening.

    I agree with 0.5 this morning. Yes, he is high but we don't know how much of that has been artificially caused by lots of high carb and then a potential bounce from low levels. You can always raise the dose on future cycles if it proves to be too little, but - as you saw, once the insulin is in the cat, you are stuck for 12 hours....

    We usually suggest changing shot times 30 minutes each cycle until you get where you want to be. Will that work if you do it over the weekend?

    Everyone who replied to you also posts on the PZI forum where you can get dosing advice when you need it. Come join us over there when you can. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
     
  70. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Giving him .5 now, and will walk him back to his normal time... I have been lurking a bit in the PZI section, have been wanting to switch him over to it for a few days now, have learned a bit reading through some threads :) Will update in a bit on Cooter, gonna shoot and take and lay down for an hour and test, my head won't stop pounding
     
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  71. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good morning Sarah! Glad to see you and Cooter are doing well this morning but sorry to hear your head is pounding! It's no doubt a result of lack of sleep and all the tension of last night's adventure. You were a champ! :D
     
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  72. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Sleep? What's that? LOL!
     
  73. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Waited until +2 to test, he seemed fine and know hes tired of all the pokes... hes at 472 right now, but expect that to drop a bit since we are still a few hours off the nadir time for the prozinc. Time to run to the store and stock up on a few things now that my heads not in a vice :D
     
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  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ya snooze, ya lose, Rachel! :p

    On a serious note, I hope you had a restful and refreshing night's sleep. :)

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
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  75. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sleep's for wimps.

    :p

    .
     
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  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    .
     
  77. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope Cooter does a bit of bouncing so that you can get some rest. :bighug:
     
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  78. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    He heard u lol... up a slight bit from his +2 hes 508 at +4
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
    Reason for edit: I cant type..fixed a typo
  79. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    With the nose dive he did last night that is totally to be expected. At least for this cycle you can squeeze in a nice nap and keep your fingers crossed that Cooter behaves better tonight. :)
     
  80. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Any other items i may need? have a feeding syring i forgot to get it in the pic...
     

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  81. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Looking good! You should always keep some chocolate or other yummy treats for yourself. Night's like last night you deserve it. ;)
     
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  82. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Love the "OH CRAP" name on the kit! I wish I'd thought of that! :D
     
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  83. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I totally missed that when I looked.

    That is just priceless [​IMG]
     
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  84. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Spotted that, too! Sarah, you just cracked me up completely!

    [​IMG]


    Mogs
    .
     
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  85. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    I was going to use another colorful word there, since it was what ran through my head a few times last night... thought I'd keep it PG-13 :D
     
  86. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    wow I sure did miss this--I am so glad all is well...
    I think you will prefer pro zinc to vetsulin after you find the right dose for your kitty:cat:
     
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  87. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    One that rhymes with 'kit', perchance? o_O


    .
     
  88. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    quick question... he had a .5u dose 2 hours late this morning, going to give him on 1u tonight, walking the dose back a half hour to try and get him back on schedule this weekend.... I was testing and feeding a half hour before dose on the vetsulin, is this still a good practice on the prozinc?

    NVM, found the answer to feed test shoot on the PZI forum.... imagine that huh o_Oo_O
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
    Reason for edit: I jumped the gun...
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  89. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Haha! The oh crap kit is priceless!!
     
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  90. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant, isn't it! :)

    .
     
  91. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Actually had to get into it tonight... pulled a can of HC out after his +3 number was exactly the same as last night, but he flattened out at +4 :facepalm:
     
  92. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully not another white knuckle ride, Sarah. :bighug:
     
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  93. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    We'll get him straightened out yet..... just scared for Monday, wont be here to watch him :nailbiting:
     

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