? Help concerned Buddy pancreatitis, not eating, ketones trace

My cat Buddy has been sick with pancreatitis since Monday night, he will not eat turns his head like it makes him sick. I have been force feeding him with a brand a vet told me to do. I am concerned about the trace amounts of ketones.@wendy & neon

 

@Wendy&Neko I don't know of a low carb food I could use to syringe food, what I am using is Hill's ID because that is what the vet wanted me to use because it was very soft and low in fat.

 

Royal Canin Recovery is LC and easy to syringe. So is AD, but it’s more like medium carb, which is OK if you are concerned about giving insulin because his numbers are lower. If you have a small blender like a magic bullet or immulsion blender, you can add water and get some easy to syringe food from almost any pate style food.

The low fat thing for pancreatits is a dog thing, not current thinking for cats. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

Are you giving either Cerenia and/or ondansetron for nausea?

 

Here is your thread from the main forum about Buddy having a trace of ketones and not being well
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/my-cat-buddys-ketone-strip-shows-trace-amounts.207337/

 

I am giving both Cerenia and ondansetron. I tried to get him to smell some FF and he had a terrible look on his face and was trying to get away. I think I have some AD, if not do you know of any over the counter I could get until Monday when vets open. I cut way down on his insulin because of his not eating and now he has trace amounts of ketones.

 

Thank you.

 

@Wendy&Neko When you are syringe feeding do you give the same amount of insulin as usual. Buddy is not peeing as always, so it is hard to get ketone testing. Buddy has had pancreatitis since before 2013 and never been this sick before.

 

Yes, if I could get food in via syringe feeding, I gave the same dose of insulin. Sometimes I would give higher % LC than usual. Some of the Wellness Complete are a smooth texture. Tiki Cat Velvet Mousse are supposed to be good. Heck, even all meat baby food are good for short term use, Neko liked the Weruva Lamburgerini and would eat it whipped up in a blender or I could syringe it.

Are you giving fluids to flush the ketones? If no, add lots of water tomhis food you assist feed.

How much does Buddy weigh and what is his ondansetron and Cerenia doses. Vets often undersubscribe amounts.

Without spreadsheet data, I cannot help you on dose,

 

I have not been giving fluids, but I have been syringing a lot of water and the food I was syringing feeding was watered down. Buddy weighs 14 lbs. His regular vet was giving him .02 of bupe per day, the other vet said he needed .03 of bupe 2 x a day. It is 6.15am and buddy is hungry, I gave him a bite of Crave, it is not high carb. I only gave him a bite to see how he does.

 

That is good he is hungry!
What is Crave?

 

Look luck with the eating. It is so unnerving when they go off their feed. Have you tried all meat baby food. When Bubba has stopped eating due to GI stuff or a toothache, baby food would get him going again. Have you seen this list of things that Jill complied to help get a kitty eating ?

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. * I have added Young Again Zero Carb
-making a buffet to give him choices
sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- heating food
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

Cats that are not eating much for a few days are at risk for hepatic lipidosis
Last resort to eat give Medium or the high carb, wet food

I have also had luck with sprinkling the oregano on the food. I think it works because it smells similar to catnip.

 

I did put parm cheese on his food. I tried tuna & tuna water, I am now syringe feeding. I am afraid of over dosing and then he won't eat when his numbers go low. At 6.00 am this morning he was wanting to eat, but I did not want his BG to go high because e has trace amounts of ketones.

 

Crave is a pate put out by Mars. They advertise it as high protein, grain free. When I called they said it was 7% carb. I stopped using it because it seemed to make Bailey's BG rise and it is not listed on Dr Pierson's list of cat foods.

Crave also contains Carrageenan. From Dr Pierson's site:
One ingredient that has caught my attention lately is carrageenan. If one does a PubMed search of carrageenan, they will find many references to “carrageenan-induced inflammation” which is very disturbing in light of how common IBD (inflammatory bowel disease) is in cats. Please see this link to an interesting study showing carrageenan to be an inflammatory mediator in human intestinal cells.

Unfortunately, many commercial canned products contain carrageenan. If your cat has chronic diarrhea or vomiting, I suggest trying to find a food without this ingredient listed but just know that your choices will be limited.

Hugs for you and Buddy

 

Buddy was hungry at 6:00 am and ate a bite, but now will not. I have been feeding him what the vet said a watered down version of I/D and I am going by yesterday and insulin dose. This morning Buddy was @ 120, I feed him and gave him 3.75u, last night I gave him 3.50u. I am trying to raise his insulin slowly without him going hypo on me. I need a food that I can syringe feed him and then work it into eating when this is over. He is still showing interest.

 

Buddy doesn't like all meat baby food, I have some chicken.

 

Don’t syringe food that you think he might wand to eat later. Syringing can lead to food adversion of that particular food. It doesn’t always happen. It didn’t with Neko, but I once fostered a hepatic lipidosis kitty from the shelter and after three weeks of syringing, AD, he wouldn’t eat any food with chicken in it for months. On the up side, he survived. Stinky Snappy Tom’s cat food got him eating. Also worked for another kitty who was off his food due to an URI.

 

When Murphy gets pancreatitis, he won't look at wet food. I can usually only get him to eat small amounts of kibble then (I have Epigen90 but Dr Elsy's is an option). Other owners with pancreatitis cats have reported this as well - I guess like only wanting dry toast when nauseated
I'd say give him frequent small amounts of whatever he'll eat till the episode subsides.

 

Buddy weighs 14 lbs, his dose of cerenia is 1/4 of a 16 mg pill, but I give 2 a day. His dose of ondansetron id 1/4 0f a 4mg pill every 8 hrs.

The vet I saw wanted him to eat Hills I/D and syringe it, which I have been. Last night he had trace amounts of Ketones, so I got insulin wild and upped his insulin some, he now has 3 hrs till nadir and is at 99. I am going to try and update SS.

 

What dose of cerenia & ondan do you think he should have.

 

Who could I get to help me with my SS, I have not used in a long time and it does not work. I need to post Buddy's numbers for help.

 

You could easily up the ondansetron to 0.5 mg per kg, which would be 3 mg 3 times a day for Buddy. Now you are giving 1 mg.

Sorry, can’t help on the SS, am on a ferry. Maybe @Chris & China ?

 

Thank you.

 

What do you think about Metacam. Have you ever used it. I have been giving some to Buddy for a couple of days. I value your opinion.

 

Thank you.

 

Are you logged into the correct google account that is associated with the SS?

 

I don't know, I just click on Buddy's SS at the top of the page, it comes up, but it is not right and you cannot enter info. what is the bar called that you can click on to get into programs such as Buddy's SS or Feline Diabetes Message Board. On that bar at 1 time there was another icon that said Buddy's SS, now there is only 1 icon instead of 2. I believe the other icon is the correct 1.

 

I logged into google and the spread sheet came up, but the date stops at 4/8, how do I get the dates to fill in

 

All I see are numbers up until 1/18. You ma have to manually input all the numbers unless you can copy & paste from an offline SS that you have been updating?

 

maybe I was in the wrong SS. I do not have an offline SS

 

I see all the dates through the end of the year

Did you gain access?

 

only have dates that go to 4/8/2018, can you fill in the dates

 

I have been syringing Buddy food and water, this morning he peeded twice after I syringed water, but has not peeded since, there are no 24 hr vets around here r I would take him. Have you ever sen this happen before.

 

Buddy is not eating or drinking. Buddy had pancreatitis before 2013, but I have never seen him like this before.

 

In the US it has a black box warning for use in cats. It is an NSAID and not recommended for cats. Better choices for pain are buprenorphine or gabapentin.

For the spreadsheet, don’t worry about older data, just enter the last couple weeks of data for now.

 

I have been using bupe, the vet I saw the other day said to go ahead and use it with the bupe, but I will not give him any more. I have been syring water but he has not peed since this morning, I am going to give him more water now. Do you know of anyone else's cat doing this. I am so worried about him.

 

If his numbers have been better, maybe he doesn’t have to pee. When she was doing well, Neko only peed twice a day or even a bit less. Do you know how to feel for a full bladder? I had to learn for a kitty with bladder issues.

 

No, I do not know how to feel for a full bladder. Could I hurt him by giving him too much water. He has not been drinking any water on his own. He is not going to the litter box or anything.