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? !Help! with Mimi PMPS 105, ... what to do

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Mimis mom, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  2. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    I’ve tagged 5 people and not one person can get back to me :(
     
  3. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    115 at the +12.5 mark, let her lick some of the HC food about 30 minutes ago- probably not smart but that was me wondering if she ate her auto feed food because I didn’t separate them today
     
  4. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Rosa, when you stall you do not feed as it bumps up the BG.

    Are you going to be home tonight to test , all night if necessary?
     
  5. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    What is my other option- to stall the shot? I still haven’t shot her.. I’ll just try and scale her back every 15 minutes if I’m to wait.

    I’ll be home I just will want to be sleeping at some point.
     
  6. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    is that what diabetics would do (humans) if their pre shot was low, would they wait until it went up and then just change their every 12 hour shot time
     
  7. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Once you have given her some food, there is no sense in stalling longer.
    First priority is to keep her safe.
    How long can you test tonight?
    I have to leave soon so please answer
     
  8. Mimis mom

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    I gave her a drop of HC - she mostly licked the gravy and that was an hour ago.
     
  9. Mimis mom

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    say I did not give her food- what would the protocol be- keep testing every 30 until the BG rises enough to shoot?
     
  10. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I need to know if you are willing to test tonight as long as it is necessary.
    And do you have some higher carb food and plenty of strips
     
  11. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    is there anyone else on here thats experienced like you that can help me after you leave? Thanks :)
     
  12. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I will be back in a couple of hours.
    can you answer my questions?
    We need to decide if you are going to shoot.
     
  13. Mimis mom

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    What is as long as necessary. So every time she tests low I need to be prepared to test every hour? There has to be an easier way- will stalling the shot help?
     
  14. Mimis mom

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    and yes I have HC food, enough TS
     
  15. Mimis mom

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    Id rather keep stalling so I don't have to keep testing her so much.. I ordered some more Freestyle Lite strips- I can't take the blood amount for the Relion- its making both of us mad (Mimi and I) that .2 is a HUGE difference..
     
  16. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Rosa...I have to leave in 5 minutes.
    If you shoot, you will need to test as long as it is needed. It will all depends on what the BG level does.
    It is not good to skip with a post DKA cat.
     
  17. Mimis mom

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  18. Mimis mom

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    I won't skip - ill just delay- is that what diabetics do normally? If it was too low do you wait until its high again??
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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  20. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Rosa --

    If someone is offering to help you, you need to stay on track and answer their questions. Bron is telling you she can help but within certain parameters. I won't be awake much longer. I have to work tomorrow.

    People are different than cats. A human can make his or her own decisions and/or communicate to other people. Our cats do not communicate in English and typically cannot feed themselves. Asking what humans do is irrelevant.

    If you are going to follow TR, you need to decide what is the lowest number. you feel that you can comfortable shoot.
     
  21. Mimis mom

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    Im not exactly sure what you mean by not answering her questions..Also, I tagged 5 people, three which were online, and didn't hear a response for an hour. I just need to know if her BG is in normal range, will that mean it stays that way. I don't want to shoot her and do what I did yesterday- something about that seemed like I should have waited. Isn't human diabetes very similar to feline in the way its treated and handled? Thats the gist I got from Dr. Pierson from catinfo
     
  22. Mimis mom

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    How do I know what is the lowest number? have I collected enough data to know? I read about TR and its said you can shoot as long as its about 50 was it? but that comes after knowing your cats cycle
     
  23. Mimis mom

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    what do you mean help within certain parameters? Do you mean because she had to get off line?
     
  24. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Read above post #12 to see what Bron posted and how you were asking more questions and not responded to what she asked. And yes, she told you she had to leave. Just like I said I can't stay up with you because I have to be up early for work and I'm also juggling an emergency at work tonight.

    With TR, ultimately you should be able to shoot any number over 50 providing you can monitor and have strips and HC food on hand. No one expects someone to do this immediately out of the gate. Look at Gabby's SS. Look at Marje's Grace's SS. Look at lots of SSs. Feline diabetes is similar to diabetes in humans. However, humans can test themselves, eat at will, etc. A cat does not have opposable thumbs and can't open a can of food.

    You are asking for guarantees. There are none. A cat is a living being and inherently, they like to be unpredictable and keep us guessing. Ideally, when you shoot low, the curve flattens out and the cat "surfs" in a good range. But, that doesn't always happen. Hence, you need to be prepared to monitor and have supplies should they be needed.

    If numbers are below your comfort zone, you can skip, stall but do not feed your cat, or shoot a reduced dose. Those are your options.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  25. Mimis mom

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    I just tested her and she’s 110... could that mean she’ll stay low all night? Should I test out skipping a dose since I’ve waited so long?
     
  26. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    At what time did you get the 110? The information isn't on your SS.

    I have no idea if Mimi will stay low all night. None of us have a crystal ball.

    If you've delayed more than 2 hrs, you should consider whether your schedule can handle being off track by that amount. Also keep in mind that skipping a shot is not the best strategy for a cat that's recently experienced DKA.

    What do you think you should do?
     
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  27. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    no one expects what?
     
  28. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    You are two hours late for the shot and gave HC 45 minutes ago? Is that correct?

    I, for one, didn’t get your tag. We’ve found that if you put the tags next to each other, it doesn’t seem to notify the tag-ee. The best way to do it is make a vertical list, one name per line.
     
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  29. Mimis mom

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    well last time I skipped it was because she was at 60, 70, and then at +16 jumped to 528!! but this time her numbers are in the blue, looking like a cat that doesn't have diabetes. I don't know. I guess just keep checking and as soon as its high enough, shoot? I don't want her to bounce again, that can't be good for her pancreas right?
     
  30. Mimis mom

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    no I gave a tiny bit (I don't even know if she ate the actual meat, she was licking it mostly) at +12. so its been almost 2 hours since then. I fed them their raw at 10:45, because a recent DKA kitty should keep eating too right?
     
  31. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    I got it at +13.5 I have it on my SS now
     
  32. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Can you be off two hours and what is her BG now?
     
  33. Mimis mom

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    FROM CATINFO.ORG

    Very Critical Points

    If you do not read any further on this webpage, please understand the following principles. Your cat’s life literally depends on your understanding of these issues.

    Many cats that are in a diabetic state no longer need any insulin when they are finally fed an appropriate low-carbohydrate diet.

    Others will always need some insulin but the amount necessary to maintain proper blood glucose levels is nearly always significantly reduced once the patient is on a low carbohydrate diet.

    Please re-read the previous two paragraphs carefully.

    If you change your diabetic cat’s diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage. He may also immediately go into ‘remission’ and not need any insulin at all.

    If this warning is ignored, you may very well end up with a cat in a hypoglycemic crisis (dangerously low blood sugar) which can result in death, or brain damage.

    If you take only one point away from this page, it needs to be the understanding that if you stop pouring carbs into your cat by switching to a low-carb canned food diet (or even a dry food diet with lower carbs than you have been feeding), you MUST be aware of the probable immediate and significant impact on your cat’s insulin needs.
     
  34. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Rosa

    We know all of that. Can you please answer my question so I can help you? That’s what we need to focus on right now: whether to give insulin and how much.
     
  35. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    What +time is 10:45? Giving the hour in your time zone is not helpful since were scattered all over the world. Bron is in Australia.

    Rosa - what is your point about copying the information about the importance of a low carb diet from Dr. Lisa's website?

    Again, what do you think you should do?
     
  36. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    my reason for posting this is because they are on a raw diet- just organs, whole animal, heart, liver and kidneys, so its probable that she might just be regulated for a bit? is that common? like a cat can maintain a below 150 BG for all of their second cycle and then start rising again for their next one? (almost like the insulin worked 24 hours?)
     
  37. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    @Marje and Gracie -- I'm going to step out. It's getting past my bedtime. Thanks!

    Rosa - answer Marje's questions.
     
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  38. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    her BG is 110 just taken 10 minutes ago- I update the SS as soon as I get the number
     
  39. Mimis mom

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    And I can delay two hours if i have to- I don't have a client tomorrow until noon- I just need to tell them to block me out.
     
  40. Mimis mom

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    have you ever seen a cat have normal range numbers for an entire cycle?
     
  41. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Ok.... she’s flat and hasn’t gone down further. After stalling this long, we would normally shoot the full dose and feed a good meal then test at +1 and +2.

    Here’s what you need to know: I am not able to stay up but will be here for the +1 so if you shoot, you will be on your own until (and if) Bron gets back.

    I will answer your other questions after we deal with this.
     
  42. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Rosa? What’s going on?
     
  43. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    @Marje and Gracie I can stay on for 3 hours if Rosa needs help, I don't have to work tomorrow.
     
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  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Thank you, dear. Let’s see what she’s going to do.

    I appreciate it and will let you know. :bighug:
     
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  45. Mimis mom

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    sorry, I had to use the bathroom, and wash my face for bed.


    Ill test again now
     
  46. Mimis mom

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    if she's still flat should I just hold it and wait till the morning?
     
  47. Mimis mom

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    the point of me posting that was because I was trying to ask - is it possible since she's staying so flat, and is on raw, could this be happening to her? Not saying it is, but what if it was? just tested again and its 118
     
  48. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Again, I will answer all your questions when we deal with her shot. Are you going to give her insulin? I can be here for +1; Christie can be here until +3. Bron might be back as well.

    Remember it’s not smart to skip when a cat has had DKA and she’s at a shootable number. She is not in remission at this time.
     
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  49. Mimis mom

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    ok so you do believe this is a shootable number even though its flat
     
  50. Mimis mom

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    just shot her
     
  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    ok. I was just answering your question about her being flat.

    Be sure you feed a few tsp of the highest low carb food you have. You need to test at +1 and +2,

    While you are feeding, I will answer your other questions.
     
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  52. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Rosa, a reminder in case you aren't aware, a higher low carb food will be approximately 8-10%.
     
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  53. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Mimi’s SS looks like many of the SSs here. Take time to look in other condos and look at other cats’ SSs. She does not look to me like an example of a cat that is doing what Dr. Lisa described.

    Here is a SS that is exactly what Dr. Lisa described:
    Scooter’s SS
    He was on dry and canned food. Look at his 2014 SS; his last day of dry was 4/28/2014.

    Many of our cats have not only had cycles of normal numbers but weeks and months. Look at Sienne’s Gabby’ SS and my Gracie’s SS. And here is a perfect example:
    China’s SS

    China was tightly regulated for years in normal numbers and never went into remission. I’m not saying Mimi won’t but I’m trying to show you there are cats that are in all normal numbers and still need insulin. Chris tried to take her off insulin and it didn’t work.
     
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  54. Mimis mom

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    oh ****, I just fed her the raw because I didn't want to wait long after shooting her. ok so should i just give her a teaspoon of the FF gravy lovers to balance it out?
     
  55. Mimis mom

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    Ok I will start looking at others- thanks! I mean, I did have Mimi on LC wet food for YEARS and she still got diabetes, so maybe its in the cards for her- maybe its more like type 1?
     
  56. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    There is no type 1 in cats. Sometimes we don’t know why our kitties become diabetic but it could be chronic, very low grade pancreatitis that we are not aware of.

    Please be sure and post a +1 BG here in her condo, ok?
     
  57. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Gravy lovers is really HC. You have no 10% canned food?
     
  58. Mimis mom

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    ok I will
     
  59. Mimis mom

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    no, I was only instructed to get gravy lovers that time. but do you think it will balance the raw out which has no carbs in it to make it MC?
     
  60. Mimis mom

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    she might have issues with her Pancreas... She might have always had issues with it actually because when I first brought her to the holistic vet here, I told her how she's always had dandruff (as long as i can remember) and she said " her dandruff is greasy. In chinese medicine when we see that, its usually a sign of stress in the pancreas"
     
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  61. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Let’s see what her +1 is. But have it handy.
     
  62. Mimis mom

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    so it appears Scooter switched to canned and almost immediately went into remission.. unbelievable! why did his dad keep him on high carb kibble?? it looks like he was OTJ for like what, a month and then it came back?
     
  63. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    She’s being so patient.. I love her so much
     

    Attached Files:

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  64. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    Just wondering- since the insulin doesn’t kick in for 2 hours - would getting a +1 be effective or should I wait till +2
     
  65. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Linda had more than one cat and had difficulty feeding separate meals but finally bit the bullet and stopped dry food. His blips into high numbers were from stealing kibble. He was in remission for a year before he passed away. His SS is also a good example of “once a diabetic, always a diabetic”. Any contraband food at all, and his BG shot up.
     
  66. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Get a +1. If the +1 doesn’t have a food spike, you know she’s going to drop. Best to be on top of it since she was clearing another bounce.
     
  67. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    I hate taking her blood- and she’s really getting annoyed at me because I never get the amount of blood I need on the first prick. It’s stressing her out and I know that can make her sick all on its own. I ordered more test strips for freestyle lite- I’m going back to that one, the Relion requires too much damn blood and the freestyle was super easy- I barely needed blood. She’s also getting hard spots on her ears where I prick..
     
  68. Mimis mom

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    Well I am glad I don’t even own kibble! My other cat never cared for it- the only thing he loves munching on is a leaf of spinach, lol.
    I let him eat it because he scoots his butt a lot and the vet said it’s because he’s not making soft enough stools
     
  69. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    It’s a issue many members have where other cats are solely dry food eaters.
     
  70. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Are you free handing? Warming her ear? Using a bit larger lancet right now like 28g? Making sure the bevel is up? Alternating the poke site? Using Neosoorin with pain relief? I always had a cool, wet baby wash cloth handy so as soon as the poke was done, I held it on Gracie’s ear to cool it and stop the bleeding. I gave her Arnica to prevent brushing and Ledum for pokes.
     
  71. Mimis mom

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  72. Mimis mom

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    I have a lancing device- I have the freestyle 29 g ones, but saw the 31 g relion brand and thought the thinner gauge would be less painful? I do warm the ear by rubbing it with my fingers- I also heat a rice pack in the microwave- that has helped.
     
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  73. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    Im falling dead asleep right now... Im so exhausted..
     
  74. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Excellent. Thank you. You’ll still need to get a +2. If you normally feed her at +1, it’s fine to give her LC.

    Christie and Bron will be in to stay with you all and I’m headed to bed.

    Great job shooting tonight. Remember you can back her shot time up by 30 mins a day so you can shoot 1/2 hour earlier tomorrow morning or 15 mins early in the morning and 15 early at night. I always thought shooting 30 mins early once a day was easiest.

    Good luck tonight and hope you all sleep well.
     
  75. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    You might want to try freehanding with the 29g.

    Coffee time!
     
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  76. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    so the increase was good then- it meant her food spiked her enough?
    I don't feed her at +1, I usually do at +2 or 3. thanks again for your help!
     
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  77. Mimis mom

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    Mimis mom has to also make sure she stays healthy, otherwise who will take care of Mimi. I have sleep issues as it is, I try not to mess it up too much.
     
  78. Mimis mom

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    do you mean just pricking her without the device? should I be pricking her right on that vein that runs along the edge of the ear or in-between the edge and the vein?
     
  79. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Member

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    I just picked up the polysporin with pain relief tonight and used it and I definitely see a difference in Freckles' reaction. Also, thanks to Marje's advice, I started free handing with the lancet instead of using the lancing device - which also made a huge difference - you don't have to push the lancet device down on the ear. All of Marje's suggestions have been very helpful and it's like I'm working with a different cat now. At the vet's office it took 4 of them every time to test when they did a glucose curve the very first time. Now at home, Freckles jumps up on the counter, gets rubs and loves, and was even purring tonight when I tested her. They definitely read your energy. If you are stressed out about it, they will as well. If you look at is a "no big deal" they are likely to follow suit - just like a kid!
     
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  80. Judy and Freckles

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  81. Judy and Freckles

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  82. Mimis mom

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    so free handing it meaning I just take the needle and poke right in- I tried that and she flinched every time I did- I don't think I have gauge as to how hard to. Vets need to get an entire semester on diabetes! I was fine actually when I was using a meter that took .3 and now Im doing one that does .5 and I didn't think that could be a difference but it is! so you put the polysporin on it before you shoot? what about neosporin- I have that- but it does have two additional antibiotics.

    Im so tired my eyes are crossing..
     
  83. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Please don’t go to sleep Rosa. If you think you might then please set the alarm for a +2.
     
  84. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    You want to be quick and don’t hit the vein. That will hurt and it will bleed like crazy. Have you seen these Testing and Shooting Tips?
     
  85. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Member

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  86. Mimis mom

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    Im not going to, I just made a bowl of cereal to keep my own BS up lol
     
  87. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

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    yes I have- Im looking at them again :)
     
  88. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    well done!!
     
  89. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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  90. Mimis mom

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  91. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Rosa, If you set the alarm to wake up to do a +4 test, would you wake up, or sleep through the alarm?
     
  92. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2019
    I could wake up. I just fed her some of her raw. She has a scheduled raw feeding at 3:30 am with the auto feeder- will that affect the +4?
     
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  93. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    No that is fine to feed her when she normally eats.
    OK, if you think you will wake up at +4, then I think you can have a sleep until then.
    Make sure you set the alarm.
    How does that sound?
     
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  94. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2019
    Sounds good! Thanks for all of your help!
     
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  95. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    OK I will see you in 2 hours.
     
  96. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Good job tonight, I'll be signing off now.
     
  97. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thanks Christie!
    Sleep well!
     
    Christie & Maverick likes this.
  98. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2019
    just did +4 - 213 :)
     
  99. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Sorry I didn’t see earlier. I think you are ok to sleep. Just leave her some food out. Make sure your other kitty can’t get it.
    Well done tonight Rosa.
     

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