High BG numbers and today's the day!

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by April & Quincy, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Good morning (or afternoon or evening depending where you are)!!

    Today is the day! We are headed to the vet in a few hours to get in the insulin demonstration and I will then learn what amount the vet recommends I use to inject Quincy. I will come back here later or in the morning to update you on what she said.

    I have to work tomorrow so I didn't want to start shooting tomorrow if I won't be home all day to see how he does. Or do people recommend doing so anyways? On Saturday I'll be home to monitor him so I thought that'd be the perfect day to start but if you all think giving him his shot tomorrow morning and then heading off to work is okay, I'll trust you, though it does make me nervous that I won't be able to monitor how he reacts to his first insulin injection.

    I've updated the numbers and while I couldn't BG check yesterday, they are high (obviously) so I am excited and hopeful that once we start insulin those numbers will go down!

    I look forward to letting you all know later what she says! :) Have a great day!
     
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  2. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Hi April!

    So exciting!! I'm happy for you that you're taking the next steps to care for Quincy! Let's see what the vet says before you decide whether or not to shoot tomorrow morning. As long as it is a reasonable dose I would think that it would be a good idea to give the dose right away tomorrow morning, that is because Basaglar, like Lantus, is a depot style insulin, so you may not even see the results from the insulin until the second or third day, potentially on the weekend which would be ideal since you work Monday to Friday.

    HERE is the link to your last post so members can follow your history on the board :). From now on, please link your last post in this forum so everyone can easily look at. The easiest way to do that is to type some text ex: "Last Post" highlight that text, and then choose The "link" button in the toolbar as seen circled below.
    View attachment 47904


    Post daily if you can / want, only one post a day since it’s a busy forum, make your title in the following general format:

    Date, Cat’s Name, AMPS value, additional testing values during the day, PMPS value.

    Additional testing values are good to add to the title if you have them because experienced members may be able to notice if Quincy has entered a dangerous situation that needs action, or may be able to provide feedback on dosage amounts. You can edit the title with updates on your latest tests as the day goes by or add a question to the title if you end up with a question by the end of the day. For example you could start with this: 09/19 Quincy AMPS 300

    And end up by the end of the day having a title like this: ? 09/19 Quincy AMPS 300 +1 301 +2 270 Starting Lantus, Advice / Tips wanted

    You can edit the title by choosing, thread tools at the top right of your post, then "edit title"
    upload_2019-9-19_11-4-47.png
    If you have a question, you can choose a prefix based on your situation, if you have a question choose the ? prefix for your title, if your cat is in danger, choose 911 for support, GA is for Gone ahead / Guardian Angel, this is meant to use as a notification that your cat has passed... please don't choose this by mistake ;)

    upload_2019-9-19_11-5-35.png

    Hope some of this helps you getting fully into it around here! Looking forward to hearing what the vet says, and looking forward to seeing Qunicy's progress after beginning treatment!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    seems like my first attachment didnt work! Below is where the insert link button is :)
    upload_2019-9-19_11-15-25.png
     
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  4. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Oh my, I will certainly do my best! Is it okay if I leave the title of this one the way it is now? I have no numbers for today (as of yet). I will try to remember all of the steps! :) I will update this thread later when I have more info from the vet, eek!!
     
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  5. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    Definitely!

    It's just a little information for when (or if) you start posting regularly! and you don't have to do it the same way as I said... it is just good to post tests - especially when you're starting out in case you don't realize Quincy is in a dangerous situation, another more experienced member may notice and flag it for you ;) But please do always link your last post :)
     
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  6. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I am so excited for Quincy, and eager to see how this fine boy will respond. Just be prepared to be patient and see how this unfolds. Please do check in with that starting dose amount, sometimes vets get perturbed over high BG tests there at the clinic and Rx a higher dose than is wise to start with. Adjustments can always be made in small increments as you go along.

    I apologize, I can't remember your first name ( I think you said at one time??) You can put that in the signature so we can address you by name. My goodness, I feel as if we know each other at least a bit after all the posts and replies. :)

    It's going to help you a lot to post daily, at least at first, and let people see the ongoing testing results. The members here in L,B&L forum are very supportive and responsive.
     
  7. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    So very good of you to help like this Amanda. Especially with the screen shots, I could have used those when I first arrived.
     
  8. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Thank you!!
     
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  9. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I will definitely be patient but it will be hard! And I will definitely check in once I get the dose amount!

    My first name is April! I will add that to the signature line. I feel as if we know at each other as well and I'm glad you stopped over on this thread to say something! :)

    Testing still makes me so nervous and gives me so much anxiety so I'm afraid stabbing him for the insulin shot will also be a problem for me (nerves-wise) but I will post daily for sure!
     
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  10. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    April :)bighug: thank you!). Testing makes most of us nervous at first, practice makes perfect. And..you are still going to screw it up now and then, that's life. Injecting is actually much easier, I always gave Idjit his shot when he was eating, and he never seemed to notice. Tell us what you have probs with and someone is going to offer suggestions and input. I think you are going to be just fine.

    I have been reading your posts all along, it's just that the more experienced members had things to tell you that I can't. I have been working the last few minutes to figure out just how to do the screen shots. I have forgotten so many of my previous computer skills, arggghhhh.
     
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  11. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    So glad you will be starting. How about tomorrow night if your home? Either way when you can is good.
     
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  12. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    Welcome and ask anything u want, amazing amazing people here
     
  13. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Haha, I forgot that too. I'll do it when he's eating too...still nervous. :(
     
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  14. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Yes, tomorrow night too! I definitely could then. I'm just not sure how long after the shot is given do I need to stay awake to make sure he's okay?
     
  15. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    April, I read a shooting tip once from a veteran member. Practice giving shots with a folded washcloth and colored water in a syringe. This gives double practice, drawing the water, raising the syringe to see how much you actually have in the syringe, flicking with the fingernail to make any bubbles go to the top where the needle attaches and then squirting the excess out into the air (like they do on Doctor shows and movies, but probably less flamboyantly LOL ).
    Then seeing how the needle goes into the cloth (tented or rolled skin) at an angle to reduce any sensation he might feel.

    Are you using a vial or a pen of Basaglar? Have you seen the videos of how to draw the insulin yet?
     
  16. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    The Basaglar looks like a pen. So I'm not sure how that works. I have watched a bunch of how to shoot the cat but not how to draw it. However, when I was growing up my dog had diabetes and my dad had to give shots twice a day (like I'll have to :() so I saw him draw the insulin many, many times. And I'll learn from the vet today as well.
     
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  17. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    ok, very good. There are some videos here also, just FYI. Just different procedures for each.
     
  18. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    That depends on how much you give. Depending on the time you shoot, it's always good practice to get a test right before you go to bed. That number would indicate if staying up longer is necessary.

    I shoot at 6:30 pm. I normally go to bed 12:30 am or later. Even if I went to bed at 11 pm it's almost at nadir for her. It works for us.
     
  19. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I'll probably shoot around 7pm and I go to bed around 9pm.
     
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  20. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

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    Nov 3, 2017
    Sounds like you've got a good plan in place...we'll all be anxious to hear how it went at the vet today.

    7 p.m. tonight means 7 a.m tomorrow - will that give you enough time to get a 2+ before you leave for work?
     
  21. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I just got back from the vet. As I thought, she recommended I start at one unit. They were all shocked that I am already doing blood glucose checks! What do you all think about one unit?

    If I give a shot at 7 tonight and 7 tomorrow morning, no I will not have time to do a + 2 BG check.
     
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  22. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Sorry you haven't had a response yet. Great on the one unit twice a day, it's a good starting dose. I can't tell you when to begin, and no one is going to be able to tell you just how Quincy is going to respond. It does take time (few days to a week) to build the depot. And now your vet staff knows that you are more than capable of taking good care of Quincy because you have been educating yourself and testing.
    Be sure to always test before shooting, and do your best to get the tests as you can during the cycle. Dosing is based on the lowest BG in the cycle. A before bed test is also a good time to see what's going on.

    @Olive & Paula
    @Sue and Luci
    @Wendy&Neko
     
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  23. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019

    Thanks so much for your response. It was very helpful! As it's now 740 here, I think I'll wait either for tomorrow night or Saturday morning. Learning and practicing injecting was quite scary but I feel like it will go okay. I never knew one unit was so small! It felt like I wasn't shooting anything out of the syringe!

    Vet tech didn't seem thrilled w human BG meter but she got over it quickly since I was testing at all and keeping a SS!
     
  24. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Hello and welcome. Now that you are getting settled in, make sure you read the yellow starred sticky notes. The one called dosing methods describes the two dosing methods we use here, the Tight Regulation protocol and the Start Low Go Slow Method. As long as you are feeding only low carb wet, you can choose either one to follow. Pick whichever best suits you. Each dosing method has a different starting dose. For TR it is based on cat weight and for a typical cat may be around 1 unit, but not always, for SLGS it is 0.5 units for a low carb diet, 1.0 if there is dry food in the picture.
    .
     
  25. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Hi! I have spent a lot of time reading it and I'm still confused. I'll read it again today but I guess I'm wondering if I can start at 1 unit but still do SLGS? It seems w TR you have to monitor and check a lot more than my schedule allows for.
     
  26. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    Morning April!!

    I follow SLGS because of my work schedule but many members actually do follow TR and work! You’re right for TR you need to test more because it’s a more aggressive treatment, it follows a 3 day (6 cycle) dose change cycle so you need to have the tests to be confident the changes are safe! Read this article from the TR / SLGS sticky to have a look at some examples of working members that follow TR :)
     
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  27. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    That's part of the reason I didn't choose TR. I might switch to that if I need more aggressive treatment depending on how he's doing on SLGS. I'll check out the article, thanks!
     
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  28. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    You will figure out what works best for you. You are going to keep the 1st dose for 7 days. By then you will see how Quincy is reacting to it.
     
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  29. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    My vet told me to do the first BG curve in two weeks from when I start. I'll be starting tonight!
     
  30. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I've been reading a LOT on the forums and have seen differing opinion regarding testing and injecting. For example, I don't need to test IMMEDIATELY before injecting. Or as long as Quincy is eating fine I can give the injection without it being right around meal time and having him eat right after.

    I ask because of the timing of his feeding and when I'll be giving the injections. For example, when I get home from work today and feed him (430/5pm) can I BG test him then? Feed him...and then give him his insulin injection at 7pm, which is when I will be doing every 12 hours in the future? Or do I NEED to check at 7pm before the insulin injection?

    Right now, my plan is what I stated but in the mornings I will check at 7am, feed and inject immediately after. I was then thinking I'd check at 430/5pm when he gets his next meal, feed him, and then inject at 7pm, give a small meal/treats, and then his final meal at 830/9pm.

    In the starting phases of this I will definitely check randomly throughout the day (on weekends) and prior to his evening meal at 830/9 but I'm wondering if I have to also do it right before the injection of 1U.

    From what I read this seems okay since right now his numbers are hovering at upper 300's and 400's. When his numbers drop, I think I'll need to check more closely to injection time. What do you think?
     
  31. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    kind of depends on when Quincy gets the food spike from the meal -- you want to have the insulin start to work about the same time as the BG rises due to food, rather than letting him sit at higher BG numbers for a longer time before the insulin kicks in

    Catcat seems to get a food spike quite soon, luckily for him his Lantus also starts working within that first hour -- so it's a balance between food and how much the Lantus depot melts into his blood stream to balance the BG

    so -- I'm skeptical about you testing and feeding a full meal at 4:30/5 -- then not injecting until 7 -- it's not far off what I do, but that "meal" in our case is just a tablespoon or so, basically a snack, since he tends to have a dip in his BG about then, then retest prior to the evening injection since it is then more than 2 hours since the snack .. and delay the meal until around injection time

    does that make sense?
     
  32. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Kinda?? haha um, so test prior to his evening injection and maybe give a snack then instead of a full meal? How do I know when he gets a spike? So basically the bottom line is he needs a meal when he gets his injection, even if it's just a snack.
     
  33. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I'm sorry - I know it seems like I need things spelled out for me. I feel like I kinda of do. I know I'll tailor it to Quincy as time passes but for this first few days/week I feel like I need a timeline for me to follow. Sorry!! :banghead::banghead::arghh:
     
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  34. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    You can always start out with SLGS and then as you get more familiar with how Quincy reacts to Basaglar you could change methods if you want.

    You HAVE to check before you inject, that is because a lot can happen in 2 hours when it comes to Basaglar duration. It is possible that by 430/5 that Quincy may not have reached his lowest BG number, it's important to know if it is safe to shoot.

    Do you think you could leave more food than normal during the day so that he isn't starving by the time you get home? many members here use timed automatic feeders to feed throughout the day. Quincy shouldn't eat anything 2 hours before his injection because it could give the false impression that his BG is naturally high when it could actually be high because of the food he had eaten within the 2 hrs before the shot... this risks the potential for Quincy to drop dangerously low for when the insulin starts working (onset)

    For the evening routine I think it would be better to feed a very small snack at 4:30, remove it by 5, and then at 6:45 take a BG place a full meal for the night and shoot by 7. Some more experienced members may even think that isn't a great idea

    You can post when ever and however often you like! sometimes it will be really clear from the protocol if it is safe to shoot or not, if it is unclear for you then I recommend posting for advice, if it is clear and you feel comfortable to shoot without advice then I dont think you need to! It will be nice to get to know you and Quincy though :)
     
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  35. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    NEVER apologize! Trust me!! we have all been the needy one at one point here!! I asked and re-asked and RE ASKED the same questions over and over until i fully understood it... it feels like youre being annoying but honestly, no one cares, we will help and support you because we have all been beginners at one point :bighug:
     
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  36. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    so much depends on:
    what numbers come up when you test him
    what the trend is with his BG -- is it going up, going down, or steady?

    someone recently summed it up very nicely -- with these depot insulins, you aren't dosing him on what is BG is NOW, you are dosing him on what it's going to be in about two hours

    and basing the dose on how low his BG has been going, over the last few days -- you learn his cycle, rather than reacting immediately, as you would if you were using an in-and-out insulin (Vetsulin, Novolin, to a certain extent ProZinc)

    so you balance the increase in his BG from food as it digests, with the reduction in his BG as the insulin becomes available over that period

    as we keep saying -- ECID -- every cat is different, and none of them read "the manual" -- so often they don't respond as you'd think they would

    the steadier (and lower, though not too low) you can assist his BG, the more chance you can get him at least to regulation if not remission
     
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  37. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I wish I knew how to quote certain parts like you all seem to know how to do! Okay 1st-

    I do leave food during the day because they (I have two cats) never finish their breakfast. So when I leave for work, there is always food in their bowls still.

    I can push my testing/injecting to 730 to make sure it's past the 2 hours before the shot mark. I could feed a snack at 430 and then feed the full meal at 730 after I test at 7?
     
  38. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    and yes, even after several months of study and experience, it's still confusing, I still feel I am groping around in the dark sometimes, I need to go back and reread the sticky notes and see how others are doing, I need to ask the questions too :bookworm::bookworm: :nailbiting::rolleyes::confused:o_O (read those descriptions)

    :bighug::bighug::bighug: -- you'll need the proverbial patience pants, we'll all be here for you
     
  39. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    to quote just certain parts -- hit the Reply option (bottom right of the posting) then use your backspace or whatever, to remove what you aren't replying to -- be sure to leave the Quote and brackets on the beginning and end of what you reply to ..

    (you'll learn as you go along)
     
  40. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    I'm sorry (I know I shouldn't apologize) but I'm feeling so overwhelmed right now. Testing and shooting schedule is difficult. I can simply tell you how it is now and ask about testing and shooting.

    7:15am - Breakfast
    4:30pm - "Lunch"
    8:30pm - Dinner

    I am gone from 745 to 430. So basically when should I test and feed in this schedule? I'm thinking this:

    7:10am - Test
    7:15am - Breakfast/Injection
    4:30pm - Snack
    7:15pm - Test
    7:30pm - Injection/Dinner

    Basically I need to test before injection and I need to feed with each injection.

    None of this seems right!!! Ugh, I'm sorry!
     
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  41. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    oh, you might mention your civvie (non sugarcat) in your signature so we know you have one
     
  42. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Ahhhhhhh. That's a great thing to know and remember. So two hours after the injection or two hours after a meal??
     
  43. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Thank you!
     
  44. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    to your schedule, I'd add a test at/just before afternoon snack time -- often that will clue you in to what is happening that time of day, since every cat seems to have a different schedule, and often not the same schedule day after day -- just look at the bottom half of Catcat's spreadsheet to see how true that is -- I still don't know when he REALLY hits nadir, still guessing
     
  45. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    Usually I do these things the hard way but: First you hit 'reply' The first part of the reply text identifies that you are quoting a member and the last part of the post ends the quote upload_2019-9-20_11-8-41.png
    -Like Candy said above you delete whatever text you don't want to reply to at all.
    -To respond to different sections separately, you just copy the member identifying quote text (highlighted first in the image above) and paste it in front of the text you want to reply to, then copy the quote text that I have highlighted at the bottom of the image above and paste it at the end of the text you want to reply to separately. Then write your reply below!

    I have made an image of what this post looked like before posting:
    upload_2019-9-20_11-33-33.png




    Is there any reason why your cats absolutely have to eat at 5? I would be more likely to move my shot to 6pm or 6:30pm and compromise for both parties :p if you chose 6/6 for example it would look like this:

    5:55am - Test
    6:00am - Breakfast/Injection
    5:55pm - Test
    6:00pm - Dinner/Injection
    8:00pm - +2 Test


    Or with a timed feeder:

    5:55am - Test
    6:00am - Breakfast/Injection

    12:00pm - Time released snack
    5:55pm - Test
    6:00pm - Dinner/Injection
    8:00pm - +2 Test

    12:00am - Time released snack
     
  46. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    They only eat at that time (5) because that's when I get home and I've been gone all day. I don't wake up until 7am each morning thus why I feed them at 715. I know I have an hour window so I know I could still shoot at 715 in the morning and shoot at 615 at night.

    I'm tempted to stick with the small snack at 430/5 or feed but pick up the food after a little bit of time and then re-feed after injection at 7. I don't know!! I'm so frustrated! :(:(:banghead:

    I've never heard of time released equipment for soft food.
     
  47. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2019
    First: Awesome job with the quote!!

    Second: In the end it is always your choice how you feed your cats! If your cats really need a snack when you get home I agree with you that a small snack from 430 to 5 is best! If I were in the same situation I would choose that option :)

    a video of an example of a timed feeder :)
     
  48. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

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    Sep 6, 2019
    Thanks! Oh yes, they are absolutely starving (in their minds, haha) when I get home. But I think a small snack would be okay. Interesting about that cat feeder! Definitely something for me to keep in mind!
     
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  49. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Insulin helps the body to use sugar for energy, lack of insulin also means that the body’s organs will not receive enough energy. This will make your cat feel hungry all the time, and though it will eat a lot more food, it will not gain weight.

    If the diabetic condition is not treated early, your cat's blood sugar level will go higher and higher. Because of the excessively elevated glucose level, even more urine will be made and the cat will become dehydrated due to the loss of fluid.
    Symptoms
    Diabetes
    Drinking a lot of water (polydipsia)
    • Urinating a lot (polyuria)
    • Eating a lot but not gaining weight
    • Always seeming hungry
    • Weight loss
    Until his Blood Glucose is regulated he should eat as much as he wants and always have Fresh water in a Glass or stainless bowl available (no Plastic)

    Vets often prescribe "special" food. Quincy does not need Purina DM You can feed a variety of canned food as long as it's low carb. You'll find that the Advisors that have been here for several years Really do know more than most Vets about Diabetes in cats.
    I've been her about 19 months & do not give dose advice I leave that for the "Experts" here. If you follow their advice Quincy will do just fine. :)

    Have you checked the food Chart? You want to feed low carb food & low Phosphorus is also a good idea. (NO dry food)

    "Dry food is not good for cats, whether they are diabetic or not. Cats are obligate carnivores, and dry food contains too much plant matter. Even at 14% carbs, that DM food is too high for a diabetic cat."

    Please read this sticky note on the Main Forum page.
    Info Dry Food - PLEASE consider more than just carbohydrate content

    I've seen some cats go into remission when ALL dry food was eliminated!

    Best of Luck to you & Quincy!
     
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  50. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Good Idea to put the date & Quincy's name on your post . We start a new post each day. i.e. 9/20 Quincy
    Some may think "Curlygirl" is your cat's name :rolleyes:
     
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  51. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    This is partially true.... while it is an hour of flexibility in total, for Lantus it is just a half an hour window on either side of the injection time, that would mean if you shoot at 7:15am in the evening you would have from 6:45pm-7:45pm to shoot and stay on schedule. If you shoot at 715am and then 615pm it can act like a dose increase because there may be an overlap of the am dose and the pm dose around +1 - it can be dangerous. Typically i have been recommended to change by 15 mins at a time 2x/day if possible, but often will do a full half hour.
     
  52. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Haha! Okay when I start a new thread, I will do that!
     
  53. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Good to know. With basaglar I think it's an hour...???
     
  54. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    I want to respond to all of this but I'm on my phone so I will when I'm next at a computer But thank you for your response! And I'll get back to you!
     
  55. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    April, good day and I hope it really is for you and Quincy. Have you begun the insulin injections? I took a peek at your spreadsheet and don't see any testing since the 17th. You probably have done testing but it's a good idea to keep the SS updated so we can see what's happening along the way.

    I hope you will check in and let us know how it's all going and if you need any help.
     
  56. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    By no means was I trying to insult our babies saying they are "starving". I know Quincy is but the other one...not so much. Just trying to joke. :(

    I believe their dishes are porcelain? But if he should have water in a stainless steel bowl I can definitely provide that.

    I have heard that about the DM and am slowly weaning him off of it. I have read the food chart numerous times and already learned months ago how to calculate food percentage (fat, carbs, protein, etc) and the food chart is also super helpful. No dry food is already my motto! :) I'm glad to know the DM food is too high for him. It just confirms me switching his food, so thank you!
     
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  57. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Good morning everyone! So I started insulin injections Friday night. I'm about to update the spreadsheet. The injections are surprisingly much easier than the ear pricks. :( At this time, I know the depot is filling up (Basaglar) but I'm anxious to see the numbers go down.

    One huge concern. The ear pricks. I really wish there was another way of doing this because Quincy's ears are really touch and go when it comes to bleeding. Last night I poked him over 4x all with no results or with blood everywhere that wouldn't get on the stick. It's a longer story, I'm just shortening it for the thread. Either way, I gave up because I felt so bad and just gave the injection (please don't yell at me!). This morning I got a blood drop but it was after i pricked the ear and almost held the needle in the ear for a second if that makes sense. I really wish there was some other way to do that! I could give the injections all day long, I didn't realize how easy they would be but the ear checks are killing me. I am failing at it and hurting him and stabbing him over and over and his ears are not looking too good. :(
     
  58. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    [​IMG]You can warm his ear first by gently rubbing it or use a warm cloth. The very edge (as shown in the pic) is where you're aiming for. If you hit a vein it may bleed more Just gently squeeze for a minute with the makeup pad or tissue.
    I use a cotton makeup pad behind the ear.After the test gently apply pressure for a few seconds. I use a small dab of Organic Coconut oil where I poke. It gets easier the more you do it.:) Most of us poke by hand & don't use any Lancing device.
    Care Touch Multi Colored Twist Top Lancets 30 Gauge, 300 Lancets


    Price: $11.99 & FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon.

    Also you can give the insulin shot on many places on his body Giving the shot only in the scruff can cause scar tissue. Hold the syringe at an angle & shoot just under the skin. I don't pinch or tent the skin. In the beginning I did a fur shot when I gave it in the scruff. Since I switched to shooting on his side & not tenting the skin I've never given a Fur shot. http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/DCCCOK/Injectionsites.htm
    [​IMG] We've all been thru this so if you have ANY questions Please ask. We all want to help you & Quincy! upload_2019-9-23_12-6-8.jpeg
     
    AmandaE likes this.
  59. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Congrats on starting insulin April! I'm sure you will start to see some results soon :)

    Don't get discouraged about the ear bleeding, it is definitely tough at first. As you continue testing, Quincy will grow more and more capillaries in his outer ear and soon it will be much easier to get a drop! What gauge are your lancets? 28 gauge is a good beginner size because it is larger, you can progress to a smaller gauge once Quincy has more capillaries :) To promote blood flow to the ears some members warm their kitties ear with a warm cloth in a baggie, or a small pill bottle filled with warm water. If you definitely still can't get a drop you can prick his paws, but I believe that is more painful and you get a lot more blood. Poor Mowgli had a tough time with testing at first too, I have put the lancet right through his ear, before AND I have hit the vein a couple of times... blood EVERYWHERE! Trust me, the ear pricks are the hardest part ;)

    If you are finding his ears are getting bruised try gently massaging them with the cotton pad / toilet paper you used on the inside of the ear after you've gathered your sample, this helps disperse the blood instead of allowing it to pool and bruise, it also helps to stop blood flow. If you think hes in a little pain, you can use neopsporin with lidocane to diminish the pain.

    One other thought: are you using the lancet pen? I found that harder to work with, usually i just take the cap off of the lancet and poke Mowgli myself, I find i have more control that way.

    Chin up! you're doing great!
     
  60. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Thank you! Those multi colored twist top lancets are just like what I have! I think my gauge is 28 though...maybe even 26, can't remember.
     
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  61. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    I believe the gauge is 28 or 28? I'm at work so I can't remember. I have been using a small pill bottle with warm water, which annoys him but that's not the worst part, obviously! I definitely have put it through his ear or got a huge drop of blood, presumably from hitting the vein? i'm not sure. I believe this happened yesterday cuz the blood just wouldn't stop but it wasn't any drop to get on the strip and ughhhhh. No reading for last night.

    They definitely are getting bruised. Just looking at them in the sunlight makes me want to cry. He is now starting to flinch when I use the lancet when before he just sat there. No, not using the pen, just the lancet. I was using the lancet device, clicky thing, but I found that was piercing right through his ear.

    You are right, the ear pricks are the absolute worst. I dread it every time because I never get blood with the first prick. Never. I am dreading the BG curve in two weeks because I suck so bad at this right now. It was going good for awhile and now, no. This morning I pricked and nothing happened so I pricked again and kinda held the needle in the ear for 1 second (felt a ton longer) and then a bunch of blood came but he flinched at that and I felt so bad that I held it there. Like such a horrible owner, I was like there has to be a better way!

    As for adding neosporin - I did buy some but I'm scared if I put it on first, the blood will soak into that and not into the strip. I have so much anxiety about this!!!!!
     
  62. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Remember to write in the amount of insulin Quincy is getting. How many units. The SS (spreadsheet) is VERY important! You need to keep it up to date. People here will refer to the SS every time you ask a question.
    It shows how Quincy is reacting to the insulin & a lot of other important info. Think of it as a puzzle. As you slowly fill in the boxes it gives you more info. In the beginning it's important to get some tests in during the night ( we all have had to set the alarm & get up to do a test at night.)
    Most kitties go the lowest during the evening. The insulin is Lantus,right?

    The bowl doesn't "have" to be stainless. Just don't use plastic.
     
  63. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    At the risk of sounding dumb, can I ask what's wrong with plastic? I'm assuming the same reason plastic is bad for humans.

    I will write in my signature the amount. My SS is up to date and I will continue to do so.

    The insulin is Basaglar. By evening, what hours are we speaking of?
     
  64. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Definitely sounds like you hit a vein, it happens, don't sweat it, it will get better!

    I HATED the lancet device! they're made for human skin so no wonder they weren't working for you! Massaging the ear after a prick (if Quincy will allow it) will definitely help diminish some of the bruising :)

    Trust me, by the time you get to the curve you will be such a pro! Quincy will get used to it too, just remember to use tonnes of positive reinforcement (treats, loving cuddles etc...) Hopefully he will get used to it. The image Joy posted is super helpful too! It is much better for Quincy to suffer a little with an ear prick than to get insulin when he is too low to have it, this is the lesser of two evils. I know you feel bad about it but you are an AWESOME cat caregiver because you are willing to endure these challenges so that Quincy can live his best life! don't worry about holding the needle in.... eventually he will have those capillaries... I promise :). But if it doesn't get better, you can try his paw pad :)


    Just spread it on thin, some members find it can actually help pool the blood, worth a shot! I can definitely understand your anxiety, but I'm sure it will diminish as you get better, and those darn capillaries finally show up :)
     
  65. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Oh the cuddles are in no shortage, let me tell you! I coo all over him when I'm doing it and then give him good rubs and "good boy"'s afterwards but, you know the flinch and the needle, ugh. I'm hoping one day this will all be a thing I'm super used to, one prick and it's done, and here's your treat and it's fast and speedy. Right now, it's not so much. :(:(

    Thank you for the kind words and TRUE words! I am making sure he can live his best life. I'll try not to feel bad about the needle in - that seems to work the best since I've done it before by accident but by no means do I want to keep doing it. Maybe I'll give the neosporin a try...
     
    AmandaE likes this.
  66. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    supposedly plastic bowls can hold germs or toxic substances even when freshly washed (they have pores) -- I use glass and porcelain bowls, run them through dishwasher just like any other dishes -- Catcat licks his food so vigorously that with stainless steel, he flings the food right out over the top -- the glass dishes are a little deeper and the loose food clings better, stays IN the bowl even if near the rim
     
    AmandaE likes this.
  67. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    LOL Mowgli does this too.,.. my walls are a mess!
     
  68. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Plastic bowls can cause Feline acne due to a chemical p-benzyl hydroquinone which is in many plastics.
    There have been a number of studies which have highlighted a chemical known as Bisphenol A, or BPA which made headlines a few years ago. Research shows that even in the low amounts to which people are routinely exposed, it can cause serious and sometimes irreversible damage to health.

    Some plastic can even contain lead! http://www.homelesstohousecats.com/cat-care-tips/what-are-the-safest-cat-food-bowls
     
  69. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Just to clarify flexibility, Basaglar has a 30 minute time flexibility per day not per cycle. You can shoot early by 15 minutes each cycle or 30 minutes on one cycle but any shots given earlier than 30 minutes could act like a small dose increase or if shooting later, as a dose decrease. If you have to shoot early once in a while, by more than 30 minutes that might be ok but doing it on a regular basis is going to throw off the insulin depot stabilizing. You really should try to stick to as close to 12 hours as possible as much as possible.

    I think most of us have/had a routine whereby we test, feed and shoot all in matter of 5 to 10 minutes. You don't have to wait for kitty to eat their entire meal. 5 or 10 minutes on either end of each cycle is not going to make a difference. You don't need to leave time for kitty to eat....all you need to know is that kitty is ready willing and able to eat.

    If you are home at 4:30pm, you can test for get some mid cycle data and give Quincy his snack. Then at shot time, test again, feed and shoot. Many of us give/gave shots while kitty had their head stuck in their bowl.
     
    AmandaE likes this.
  70. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Hahah, yesssss, my partner also teases that Quincy inhales his food because of how fast and vigorous he eats! And yes, flings everywhere!!
     
  71. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019

    Good to know!!!! Thank you!
     
  72. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Thanks for the clarification. I definitely wouldn't change it on a regular basis, only certain times when I have to stay late at work or something like that.

    You are right, as long as I see Quince eating afterwards I feel okay. And I definitely have been giving the shots when his head is in the bowl and he has not minded one bit! Thus the reason I wish I could do more shots instead of ear pricks. Not fun. And not going well. I never knew the injections would be so easy but the ear pricks...:banghead::banghead::banghead:

    I will do some mid cycle testing but I think I'm going to hold off for a day or so. I messed with his ears way too much yesterday since the testing wasn't successful. I think I need to give some healing time besides the test before injection.
     
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  73. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Soooo....how long until I may start seeing some insulin effects? I only started injecting Friday night but numbers are still high so I'm just wondering how long until I might see something.

    I could go on and on with the ear problems forever - it's the bane of my existence right now. :mad: I think I pierced through this morning again but I did find using a high powered flashlight seems to help a little. Ugh.
     
  74. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Would it be possible for you to start a new condo/thread today? Thanks
     
  75. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Every cat is different. Some get regulated fairly quickly while others take some time. You'll commonly see us say "this is a marathon, not a sprint". Patience is key and making sure you get mid cycle tests whenever possible (testing will get easier:)), will ensure you catch the nadir (peak action point) of the cycles so you know how low BG is going. Basaglar dosing is based on how low BG goes on a particular dose.
     
  76. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Good morning April! First, please complete the update of the spreadsheet by adding the insulin dose in the "U" column for the appropriate dates so we can see how many days Quincy has been given the insulin.

    Then, I think it would be a good idea to begin a new thread here on the Lantus forum with the title:
    9/24 Quincy AMPS 407
    Then you can type in your message. This thread is getting pretty long, and you can reference this thread with a link for background.
    You can just copy the thread link at the top of the thread:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/high-bg-numbers-and-todays-the-day.219514/#post-2448887
    and have that be your first line in your message.
    Then add whatever comments, concerns, questions you have. The title can be updated with additional tests you get throughout the day.

    That said, you know that the depot has to build, and you will not see immediate results. Additionally you are not testing in the PM cycle, so we don't know how low the insulin is taking Quincy's BG, which may be causing a high AMPS reading.
     
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  77. April & Quincy

    April & Quincy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    It is extremely hard for me to test in the PM cycle as I am on my own medication which knocks me out. I will be able to do more testing over the weekend but I also can't test between 730-430 because I am at work and often times that is later.
     

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