Honeybun low numbers

Hi all, Honey's numbers have gone very low and have been worried about a possible hypo. @Alexi @Tuxedo Mom have been giving me some great advice and have opened a new thread as had somewhat hijacked @donnalea's (apologies!!)
I am using a human bg meter and 2u of Vetsulin/Caninsulin x2 a day. Lowering dose to 1.5 hoping to stop the drastic drop she is getting (and possibly get some sleep myself).

 

Thanks for starting a separate thread:

I am putting the link to donnalea's thread so that others can read through the comments that were made about your Honeybun

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/at-what-point-do-i-get-out-the-honey.164253/#post-1768281

Comments start at post #15

 

Thank you I did think there might be a way to do it but still finding my way around here. I will post on here from now on and not FB.

 

It takes time to get used to the site...if you have questions just ask and someone will help you. There are some VERY experienced people with lots of knowledge and experience with Caninsulin/Vetsulin on this forum. The good thing about this site is that there are many people who can offer advice or suggestions and others can discuss the pros and cons....peer review, so your kitty will always be given the best advice.

 

Rach, you can still keep an eye on the FDMB FB site - many people are on that forum as well as here... you will start to recognise names and there is a sense of camaraderie which some people enjoy. But as we've said, post your dosing questions here...

 

I will definitely do this from now on to get more opinions! I will add that she ate just after +3.5 when her blood was 92 as she was ravenous and ate a whole sachet...presumably if I hadn't tested and she hadn't eaten it would have gone lower than the 70 at +4.5?

 

There is a good chance that it may have dropped more. SOME kitties get crazy hungry when their numbers drop lower. It appears that Honeybun is one of those, which is a good sign to watch for and test earlier if need be. Honeybun "seems" to have her nadir around +5, but that can vary from day to day as well.

 

She's up to 187 @+6.5...think you're right and she might go high for pm preshot. I swear to God this cat has given me more grey hairs in the last 2weeks!

 

The higher numbers are to be expected. With dropping down to a lower number than Honeybun is "used" to that will often cause an increase in glucose levels. Also with Caninsulin many kitties do not get a full 12 hour coverage. In a lot of cases the insulin wears out around +9 or +10 in the cycle which will also cause higher preshot numbers. We have had a good number of people using Caninsulin/Vetsulin who have been able to regulate their kitties and even go into remission, but it does take some time.

 

Hi Rachel,
I'm just 'importing' Alexi's post from the other thread for reference here:

There is a lot of very sound advice in Alexi's post. I second everything that she's said.

All of us want to see our cats in 'good numbers'. But increasing the dose too quickly can bring about unintended consequences: The cat's blood glucose can drop too low and/or too fast. If a cat's blood glucose does drop too low or too fast this can cause the blood glucose levels to 'bounce'/rebound to higher levels. Note: "Too low" doesn't necessarily mean 'dangerously low'. A bounce can be triggered just because a cat's blood glucose drops lower than it has become accustomed to.
(But it has to be said that raising the dose too fast can also cause hypoglycemia...)

There are some particular factors to take into account with regard to cats that are newly diagnosed. When a cat is first diagnosed it's pancreas will be producing either a reduced amount of insulin or no insulin at all. The cells of it's body may also be damaged by persistent high blood glucose and may be less able to take up insulin.
When we start injecting insulin that can change the dynamic dramatically. A number of things may be happening at once. There is insulin for the body to use. The body can begin to heal as a result of that. The damaged cells of the body may become increasingly receptive to insulin. And the pancreas may begin to produce more insulin of it's own (in addition to what we are injecting). These factors, combined, are very good reasons to be especially cautious with the insulin dose in the early stage of treating feline diabetes. Folks who increase the dose too quickly may soon find themselves back-pedalling....fast....

Insulin type is also a factor.
Caninsulin/Vetsulin has a reputation for dropping the blood glucose fast in cats (though this isn't always the case). Higher doses can mean faster drops in blood glucose: And sometimes that may mean that the blood glucose can drop faster than the caregiver can easily keep up with. ...Yet another reason to be cautious with the dose, especially in the initial stages of treating diabetes.

I do hope my post doesn't sound 'negative'. That isn't my intention at all. Please know that, as Mary Ann says above, some cats have done just fine on Caninsulin, and quite a few of those have gone into remission also. (I've been on the forum for 9 and a half years and (probably because I'm in the UK) have observed a lot of Caninsulin cases...)
My intention is only to advise caution with regard to dosing, especially in the early phase of treatment.


Eliz

 

Rach, it is early days so important not to be too disheartened if you are not getting the numbers you see others get, actually her pre shot numbers are pretty good for this stage of the game, and Caninsulin can work very well once you understand the characteristics of the insulin and get used to how it behaves for your cat. If you look at the beginning of Cappuccino's spreadsheet, which was started shortly after she was diagnosed, you will see something more typical and how low the doses took her compared to the pre shot numbers, as time went on it was less marked but she is very good at throwing odd numbers which is why there is the warning in my signature! Honeybun is actually doing pretty well all things taken into consideration, and you will get the hang of this.

 

Thank you both so much for sharing your expertise Eliz I don't think you sound negative at all I am here for advice and I am grateful to get it from you all. I think I perhaps got a little caught up with the other (well intentioned I'm sure!) advice I was getting and will be sticking close to here for any advice in the future. She was up to 357 PMPS which seems to be roughly where she hangs at that time. I've given her 1.5u and will watch her during the evening.

 

Well said Rach! The others here have given you excellent technical advice and I would like to add a big "well done" for taking it all on board and having such a great attitude - that really is half the battle and I'm looking forward to seeing you do really well with Honeybun!
Keep smiling!
Best of luck
Diana

 

Aww thank you so much for your kind words Diana!!