Hypoglycemic cat - going to ER

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Sheli and Kitter, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Feb 6, 2017
    Hello, I am hoping someone is there now. My cat was recently diagnosed with diabetes and I have started giving him insulin a week ago. Tonight, just now, he started walking around and sniffing and was disoriented. I read that he is having a hypo glycemic attack. I gave him honey and am trying to get him to eat. He is still acting that way but not as bad. His eyes are now reacting to light.
    Any suggestions?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2017
    Reason for edit: Changed subject line
  2. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    How long does it take for him to come completely out of it? Can I wait until morning to take him to the vet for a blood check?
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    What kind of insulin? How long ago was his shot? Do you have any higher carb food you can give, like something with gravy? Are you testing at home?
     
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  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you are not testing I would continue to apply honey every 15 min. It wears off quick. Is there an emergency vet open near you?
     
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  5. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a bg meter at home?
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  7. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Sheli, please answer Janet's questions so we know how to help you.

    • Do you have a bg meter at home?
    • What kind of insulin?
    • How long ago was his shot?
    • Do you have any higher carb food you can give, like something with gravy?
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh good, glad you're here too as it's 1:45 am by me
     
  9. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    It's late here, too. I'm an hour behind you.
     
  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I hope her silence means she's on her way to a vet.
     
  11. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I hope so.
    I've been checking... she's no longer logged onto the FDMB.
     
  12. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thank you all so much, I am panicking. It means more than I can tell you. No we haven't gone to the vet yet. I don't think this meter is working (just bought it tonight) is working. The first time it said it was a 245 and then the second at 30. The insulin is Lantus. His shot was 1.5 hours ago. I just gave him some higher carb food. Which he ate.
     
  13. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    He gobbled up the higher carb food (junk cat food - meow mix) that I feed the outside ferals).
     
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  14. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    But continues his sniffing and walking.
     
  15. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    How many hours after the shot did you get the 30? How long ago was that?
     
  16. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    How long ago did he eat the Meow Mix?
     
  17. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    In summary:
    • How many hours after the shot did you get the 30? How long ago was that?
    • How long ago did he eat the Meow Mix?
    • What is his Lantus dose?
    Rub some honey or syrup on his gums.

     
  18. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    • He just ate the meow mix about 5 minutes ago.
    • 1.5 hour after the shot we got the 30. That was 30 minutes ago?
    • His lantus dose is 1 unit 2x daily
    • We did rub honey on his gums and he seemed to improve. Should I continue to do this every 15 minutes? That was 30 minutes ago too.
    • My husband is feeding him treats (greenies) just now and he is laying down now as my husband pets him.
    • His eyes are dilating now somewhat.
     
  19. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    I know it's late there for you all. Thank you so much for all your answers. I treasure them greatly.
     
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  20. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Please test him again now and post the number.

    I strongly suggest taking him to your vet or an Emergency vet because it's much too early in the cycle for him to be this low. They know how to keep him safe.
     
  21. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    I am going to the emergency vet now. Thank you so much.
     
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  22. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I think it's best. Take the syrup with you and use it in another 15 minutes.
    Let us know how things went after you've had a chance to catch your breath.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad she has an option for a vet.
     
  24. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Me, too!
     
  25. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Any update?
     
  26. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Hi All,

    All your advice really helped, by the time I got him into the car, he was his regular sassy self, complaining about going and looking intently into my eyes like he does (I've never had a cat who is so focused on looking right into the eyes, so it scared me when he didn't even seem to recognize us). At the point that he was back to himself, I opted to not go to the emergency. instead I stayed up with him all night. His blood sugar came up to 60. But I have just have a cheap checker. I have researched and I will by the Alpha Tracker.

    But one thing we are having such a hard time getting blood from his ears and the tracker to read. Poor, poor boy. Does anyone have any tips? The vet showed me and it looked so easy, but not in reality.

    You all helped my boy, Kitter, and I am eternally grateful!:bighug:
     
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  27. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Ok, I found instructions on to look for the marginal vein. Something my vet tech didn't share. This is a great demo.
     
  28. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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  29. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    you actually don't have to hit the vein. My vet tech told me to hit the vein too... the problem with that is 1) it hurts them a lot more which could cause them to be reluctant to test, and 2) it bleeds a lot more 3) it will bruise more. You want to hit the area just to the outside of the vein.
     
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  30. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sheli, what kind of a meter do you have? A human meter works just fine and is far less expensive to use. You don't need to get an AT2 meter. We have reference numbers here that will keep kitty safe. Many folks here use either the Relion Micro or Confirm meters both of which need a small blood sample and have reasonably priced test strips. The strips for the AT2 meter will cost about a $1 per test which can get very expensive very fast especially in a situation like you experienced last night!
     
  31. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Massaging the ear towards the tip before you test also helps to get the blood flowing.
     
  32. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Happy to hear all is well, Sheli!
    You've been given some great advice and tips for getting blood for tests. I hope you'll find it helpful.

    You can go ahead and start a thread on Health (The Main Forum) if have more questions or need a little more help with hometesting. You'll get more input over there.

    Welcome to the FDMB! Hope to see you posting often!
     
  33. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thank you, Janet! So good to know.
     
  34. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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  35. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Oh, ps, I have a CVS monitor, first I got a 30, then a 33, then a 60 that night that Kitter was so sick. I asked my vet what range should I be in with that monitor and they said they didn't know that meter. Their meter is set for cats and it's range is in the 6.0 as normal So a question for you all. Do you do the curve testing (hourly) in one day? Or spread it out over days?

    You all are a terrific support group. I am also spending time in the forums reading, reading! :)
     
  36. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    On a human meter you don't want to see the number go under 50... under 50 is a hypo. It means get the BG up pronto with high carb food and honey/syrup/karoj. 30 and 33 are VERY low.
     
  37. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  38. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sheli where are you located? There are two different scales of measure in use here and I'm wondering if you are in the US or elsewhere. A normal of 6.0 from your vet suggests to me that you are not in the US and that the 30 and 33 were high readings in mmol rather than mg. Please let us know so we are all "talking the same "language". :)
     
  39. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Hi Janet,

    I am in the US, Hayward, CA. I may be confusing the vet's reading with the video I watched on how to draw blood, because that was done in the UK. I see the vet tomorrow, so I will double check. the CVS meter that I am using is a measurement in mg/dl. I am going to take my meter in and have them check using my meter and theirs both because when I called and talked to the vet tech, she didn't know what the human meter range should be.
     
  40. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    One more question, please? I used to free feed my cats. It's been a week now since we started the insulin and 2x a day feeding every 12 hours. He (and my other cats) dashes for the kitchen each time I move around the house. While this is good exercise for him :D, I feel so mean :arghh: making him go hungry for a full 12 hours. Do you all run into this with your cats? What seems weird to me is that human diabetics are supposed to eat several small meals a day, right?
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    And most of us feed multiple meals a day to our diabetic cats. Many vets say to feed twice a day in association with giving insulin but it doesn't work well in most cases. Some kitties here graze all day except for removal of food in the 2 hours before a pre shot blood glucose test is done.
     
  42. Sam and Billy

    Sam and Billy New Member

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    Jan 31, 2017
    I don't know if it suggests this in any of the links, but if you're having a hard time finding a vein, putting a flashlight against his ear will help you see where it is. I'm glad your kitty is OK. This was a scary read. You must feel exhausted.
     
  43. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thanks, Sam. Yes, it was terrifying and exhausting. I feel better now, knowing better what to do. A terrible initiation into this world of cat diabetes. Wow, Billy seems young to me to get diabetes. I guess you aren't too far behind me in this learning process having just been diagnosed a couple of months ago. I think Kitter got it because I had him on prednisone for chronic bronchitis for several years...or maybe because I fed him only dry food (though hi quality food) all his life, not too sure. I am now trying to do everything holistically.
     
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  44. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    p.s. Yes, thank you, I'm going to try the flashlight behind the ear.
     
  45. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thanks, Kris!!:D And Kitter, Jazmyn and Kiley thank you too, because I made them all go on his schedule.:rb_icon:
     
  46. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    How do you guys get the tag line about your cat and what you are doing on your posts? I'd like to set mine up.
     
  47. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Twice a day feeding is more useful with shorter acting insulins which may hit hard and need the food to buffer the glucose drop. Because they wear off sooner, feeding later can greatly increase the glucose level and make it skyrocket.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter general location (city and state/province) any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.

    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Check my signature for some useful info.
     
  48. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thanks, BJM, got it! Also, that gives me another question for the doc, is Lantus short acting insulin...
     
  49. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Your meter is fine. Your measurements are and should be in mg/dl. :) You had quite the baptism by fire the other day. If you are concerned about your meter, try it on yourself. Some meters will give you strange readings (the 245 vs. 30) if there is an insufficient blood sample or the battery is weak so you might want to change the battery to be sure. See how big a sample your meter requires and consider a human meter needing a smaller sample if need be.

    Lantus is a long acting depot insulin so feeding main meals with shots and snacks in between shots often helps keep kitty on a more even keel. The snacks ensure there is food on board as the insulin is working throughout the cycle.
     
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  50. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you got Kitter through this. What a way to start your FD journey! :confused: We can help and support you and your very cute boy. I love that smiley face in your avatar.
     
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  52. Phoebes

    Phoebes Well-Known Member

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    O m g what a cute face!!!! Welcome to the best message board, people in the world. As they told me in here, it's a marathon not a sprint race. Patience and be gentle on yourself. I still spend all day reading the info!
     
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  53. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

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    Hello MrWorfmen's mom...I will always remember all your help with Elliott..THANK YOU AGAIN!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  54. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hey Fran! It was my pleasure to be of assistance! I was thinking about you recently with all that horrific weather around Hattiesburg!
    So nice to hear from you! Hope you and Elliott are keeping well!:)
     
  55. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    [QUOTE="MrWorfmen's Mom, post: Your meter is fine. Your measurements are and should be in mg/dl. :) You had quite the baptism by fire the other day. If you are concerned about your meter, try it on yourself. Some meters will give you strange readings (the 245 vs. 30) if there is an insufficient blood sample or the battery is weak so you might want to change the battery to be sure. See how big a sample your meter requires and consider a human meter needing a smaller sample if need be. [/QUOTE]

    MrWorfmen's Mom, I did, it was horrifying! I ended up taking the meter with me to the vet and compared it to the AlphaTrack they use. It was about 15 mg/dl higher than the AlphaTrack. So, I'm using it and not the AlphaTrack. Thanks for the tips on the meter and re: lantus. We did take my husband's BG and it was within the human range.

    So, weirdly, I have only given one shot of insulin in the past 4 days. Kitter's BG has been up to 200 once, that was when the vet advised I give him a shot, since then it has been 107 and 148, so no shots. We are monitoring it daily. I am still giving him the herbs the doc gave me and he is strictly on wet food now. We are going to start making him a raw food diet (I get the grinder today), so hopefully all of this will keep him off the insulin.
     
  56. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the raw diet. Hopefully that might pull Kitter's numbers down a bit more. Just keep an eye on him because the 148 is still a tiny bit high and sometimes these guys need micro doses for a short period to get them and keep their numbers down. Finger crossed for you and Kitter!
     
  57. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    Thank you for the info. It's been going down since I posted that...94 was today's. Kitter is actually running around and playing with the other cats! I will keep in mind that 148 is still a little high. Thanks!! :)
     
  58. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    p.s. What is a micro dose? My syringes smallest measurement is 1 unit of a u-100 .3 ml. Should I purchase a smaller syringe measurement just in case I need a micro dose? At what # would I want to give a micro dose?
     
  59. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

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    MICRODOSING is a "relative" measurement..to the reduction of any drug being used by a significant amount. I do not believe it is listed as an official measurement. Some people suggested using a caliper and researchers can use mass and mm to measure..very complicated.. We bought one for $60. and found that it only lets you set it at a certain point to place NEXT to the syringe for consistent measurement ?? I used it once and placed it right back in the box. Whoever suggested microdosing should be able to explain the dosing. I surely cannot!!! Apparently, it's being studied to see if works at the cellular level producing good or better results than the normal dose..Some experiments use .1 of the normal dose to see if results at the cellular sites match or supercede a normal dosing. I suppose IF 1 unit of insulin was 6 gtts, then decrease the number of gtts to 2 gtts for .33u or whatever. That's how I would do it. I concluded that # of gtts depends on how you hold the syringe (up or down) and how fast you push the gtts out. My measuring of gtts, for hours, really did not leave me confident as to accuracy...but used the gtt method for .25 units. Good Luck!!! Let us know what you learn!!
     
  60. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Hi Sheli! We should really be having this conversation on the Health Forum, but I wanted to try to provide you with some simple answers to your questions where you'd find them.
    Yes. When using Lantus, most of us use U-100 syringes marked with half units because dose adjustments are generally made in increments of 0.25 unit. It's just easier to eyeball a quarter unit when you have half unit markings. Half unit syringes have the smallest measurement readily available to us. There are no syringes marked in quarter units or less.

    U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus or Levemir from vials, cartridges, and pens. BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn (Walmart) are just some of the brands available with half unit markings. Needle gauge and length is your preference. Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest).
    A micro-dose is simply a dose which is less than a half unit. Some people eye-ball the dose. Some use calipers to measure doses. Some count the number of drops in a unit to figure out tiny doses.
    Here are some examples of how to figure out fine dosing:


    Fine Dose Pictorial Guide

    Fine dose gradations:
    • 0.5U = exactly half a unit
    • 0.4U = skinny 0.5 touching the line
    • 0.3U = skinny 0.5 with daylight under the line
    • 0.2U = fat zero with daylight over the line
    • 0.1U = fat zero barely touching the line
    Pictorial guide using a U-100 syringe marked with half units :

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    When it comes to micro-dosing, there's no way of knowing if the dose is entirely accurate. For example, my 0.25u dose and your 0.25u dose may not be exactly the same... and that's ok. What's important is consistency... replicating that same dose (same amount of insulin) so you can consistently shoot the same dose as long as kitty is getting that particular dose.
    Measuring fine doses (micro-doses) and more can be found in the LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SYRINGE & INSULIN INFO: HANDLING, DRAWING, & FINE DOSES sticky.

    No one can give you a specific BG number where you'd give a "micro-dose" when using Lantus because Lantus dosing is based on nadirs (how low the dose is dropping kitty) with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

    As kitty is methodically and systematically coming down the dosing scale after "earned" reductions, eventually the caregiver will find themselves measuring doses which are less than a half unit.

    I agree with Janet. How about setting up a spreadsheet for Kitter? If you need help just holler.


    Since this forum is strictly for welcoming new members, let's move over to the Health Forum. Your questions will receive more exposure on Health. See you there!

    Once you have a spreadsheet set up, please join us in the Lantus & Levemir Insulin Support Group! :)


     
  61. Sheli and Kitter

    Sheli and Kitter Member

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    All, thank you so much for that info. Kitter is still has really low bs, like a normal cat. We're still testing him regularly, but no shots needed. If he does, I will consider the micro doses.
     
  62. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Awesome news! Hope Kitter is able to stay off the juice! :cat:
     

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