Innova Evo Turkey and Chicken BG response for diabetic cat

One of my many cats was diagnosed as diabetic after a ketoacidosis crisis in December of 2015. Prior to the diagnosis we were free feeding her an inexpensive commercial dry food with about 34% carbohydrates on a dry matter basis, as well we offered them a twice-as-expensive (per lb) "grain free" dry food with about 27% carbs on a dry matter basis which they generally did not prefer but would consume slowly. Wet food was limited to one can per week divided up between all of them as a treat.

After the ketoacidosis crisis was diagnosed in one cat, we removed the inexpensive dry food from the indoor cats diets. The diabetic cat never had an overweight problem, she was and still is skinny, small, and weighs about 9 lbs. Because we have multiple cats, there were practical issues involved in feeding any one of them a special diet. We free feed our indoor cats and did not wish to stop that technique, nor do we wish to keep the diabetic cat in a crate all the time. Our home does not have doors on the various rooms (open floor plan), so there were and are practical and humane issues involved which limited our ability to strictly control her diet and only her diet. If the diabetic cat had been our only cat, we would have eliminated all dry food, but we did and do not wish to do so for all of our other cats. For us, managing the diabetic cat's condition is a work in progress, and we may figure out better ways to manage all their foods in the future.

At first, while the diabetic cat was sickest, once she began eating again, she ate mostly canned food varieties carefully selected to have carbs less than 8% when calculated on a dry matter basis (my desired method). At this time she also spent some time in a crate further limiting her food choices, as the other cats were not reacting well to her (we believe she smelled different to them) and she was not active (she was very sick, I believe she almost died). As she recovered and didn't need the crate anymore, and as the novelty of having wet food every day wore off, she began to eat more dry food (the 'canned food:dry food' ratio is a data point which we did not track, and sort of wish we had) After a few weeks and learning a lot more about various available foods, we found Innova Evo. Its nutritional stats 'appeared' fantastic (I do not believe the company reports them on a dry matter basis, but it was still a very low figure), so we decided to try the food even though it was yet more expensive on a per lb basis. It was our plan to watch her blood glucose (BG) response to the dietary change. Her BG increased, which was the opposite of what we expected had the food actually had lower carbs relative to the other dry food it substituted which calculated to about 27% carbs on a dry matter basis.

Here is some of the data I accrued. All these BG measurements were made by the veterinarian, most are only done once each week. I have not attempted to take them myself (and may not ever), all were taken approximately the same number of hours after insulin injection. "Insulin" and "(notes)" columns are instructions for the next week.

Date BG Insulin (Notes)
12/11/2015 331 1 U twice per day (diabetic ketoacidosis. Vetsulin. Appetite stimulant, anti-nausea)
12/18/2015 339 1 U twice per day (after this BG reading, switched insulin to PZI)
12/24/2015 75 1/2 U twice per day
12/31/2015 63 1/2 U once per day
1/7/2016 71 no insulin (note next BG measurement is next day*)
*1/8/2016 182 no insulin (switched dry food to Innova Evo Turkey & Chicken)
1/15/2016 320 1 U on MWF (BG taken a few hours after insulin)
1/22/2016 319 1 U on MWF (after this reading, stopped feeding Innova Evo)
1/29/2016 180 1 U on MWF
(My apologies for the poor table formatting, this forum's software does not seem to accept BB table code.)

My own interpretation of the above data is that Innova Evo most likely has higher carbohydrates than Innova's label asserts, or the other dry food we were feeding prior (and afterward) had much lower carbohydrates than that other company's label claimed. Please note I have not said the names of all the foods, it is not my intent to advertise for any particular company.

I'd like to point out that there are many things that are not controlled in our above experience, and I do not believe that you should use our experience and data points to come to the same conclusion as I have. Rather, you should be cautious about the food, and take careful BG measurements if you switch to it, to see if your diabetic cat has the same reaction.

One of the things that did not make sense to me regarding Innova Evo Turkey and Chicken dry food was how, a few years back when company ownership changed, the herring meal which had been in the 4th ingredient position was changed to tapioca starch. It seemed intuitively odd to me that in the number 4 sequential position, tapioca starch (which is 100% carbohydrates), that the overall food analysis would be as low as 12% carbohydrates. That oddity was confirmed by the rising BG measurements relative to the prior dry food we had been free feeding which has 27% carbs as calculated per that company's disclosed nutritional data. I am unlikely to attempt a repeat.

 

I am not qualified to answer your questions but I will bump you up-

 

Thank you Jayla. If anyone has suggestions regarding how to feed the diabetic cat only canned food, while still keeping the dry food available to the other cats, I'd be very interested in reading them. Her BG numbers were lowest when she was primarily eating carefully selected canned foods.

 

I know some people on start low go slow feed a dry that is lower in carbs I cannot recall the name I think @Chris & China has mentioned it. Also many people use young again 0 carb --but that is very expensive…. bumpity bump

 

If the Evo spiked the BG, then the only other one would be the Young Again Zero

Most of us with diabetic cats that have other cats in the house just switch everybody over to low carb canned though since all dry foods cause dehydration in cats which is hard on their kidneys

Lots of great info on the website, Feeding Your Cat, Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

 

Thank you for your thoughts Chris & China, and the pointer to Young Again. That food is a possibility.

I'm unlikely to want to make homemade, as Pierson recommends. However, I found her information invaluable to understanding the need to reduce carbohydrates and the awesome pdf she has available regarding available cat foods. She has done a great service to the cat lover community, and I can't give her enough of my personal thanks!

When we temporarily switched to Evo, our alpha male cat objected, and was kind of grumpy. On their current diets, they are basically very happy cats, and we want them to remain so, there is so little stimulation in an indoor-only cat's life (no gopher or insect hunting), and food they like is one of those factors which makes their lives enjoyable.

It is also possible that we may be able to slowly wean them all off dry food in favor of canned. We are currently considering changing free feeding during all 24 hours, to only 12 hours each day, perhaps at night as they do tend to sleep on the same schedule as we do, to try to encourage more interest in the canned food during the day, particularly for the diabetic female, who seems to be addicted to dry food.

Note, this reply has been edited.

 

I tried the EVO with my sugar girl (so far an unbreakable kibble addict ) and did not find it had any effect on her BG levels whatsoever (not higher or lower) so my hopes that it might be my holy grail were totally dashed. I too suspected the tapioca starch. Just like human diabetics, it's possible some cats react more to certain ingredients than others.

 

Is there a place that you kibble addicts will go to eat kibble that your sugar cat is likely not too?

I'm currently free feeding both wet and Young Again Dry kibble. Except the kibble is on top of my kitchen island. My dry food civvie addict will jump up to eat. My sugar cat and another civvie are content to eat the wet food available on the easy to access floor. I kind of figure if my sugar kitten does want to get to the kibble he has to work harder for it at least.

 

Unfortunately no. My sugar is just as capable as my others of accessing food no matter where it is situated! I am dealing with a sugar kitten who has proven to be THE most unbreakable kibble addict. I have NEVER run into any animal so resolute in their convictions as my Menace. She'd rather starve than eat anything that does not crunch! I have been trying to transition this cat since I adopted her at the ripe old age of 10 weeks and five years later, she still either runs away from wet food, gives me the evil eye and a stand off which now can only go on for so long or tries to bury it as if it were her waste! The scratches on my kitchen wall beside her and her civie brother's food dishes is a testament to her disdain of soft food! I hate to admit it but I seriously think after five years of trying that a little kitty has outsmarted me! In my defense, I have a 17 year old who loved his Whiskas kibble (my Mom's cat) and he has given it up completely and now eats the perfect diabetic diet of FF pates as does my other youngster!

 

I know this is only anecdotal, but once past the initial 'teething troubles' with the transition to wet food I noticed that both of my cats seemed to experience improvement in mood and also seemed to be more relaxed in their bodies. They didn't seem unhappy before the changeover but they're definitely better in themselves for the switch. Their coats got much, much softer, too.


Mogs
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I read somewhere recently that tapioca starch was considered a novel starch.

Your Menace's pancreas doesn't seem to be working at all, given that you are now giving her 14 U twice per day. That's an amazing spreadsheet you have created, managing her diabetes and taking all those readings has been a lot of work for you. I saw another user earlier today who used the same template. Some years ago Google spreadsheets didn't have color, it's nice to see that they have that now. It's so much easier to see patterns in the numbers when you color them with some logical scheme!

Our diabetic cat is a terror to give shots, we actually use a muzzle and a bag to keep her still enough. When she feels the needle, she tenses up and jerks enough that it sometimes bounces the needle right back out. The last time she was at the veterinarian, she bit him hard while he was drawing her blood sample. She's always been that way, very fussy about her body and hair, and temperamental and scary. He evidently takes the blood sample from the neck area. I'm hoping that instead of going down the meter and home testing route, we can get her off insulin completely, but that will require different food, or a diet consisting entirely of canned food.

 

Our spreadsheets all look alike because we DO all use the same template!!

Here are Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet

 

Is there any possibility of switching all the kitties in the house to canned food? You can free-feed canned food if none of the kitties are fuzzy garbage disposals. If you have one or more piggies there are several timed feeder models available that would allow you to portion out foods. As you see on Dr. Lisa's food chart, there are many low-cost options that are acceptable for a diabetic cat.

I have experience with the Young Again Zero Carb, it did not raise Pimp's glucose at all. But, Every Cat Is Different. Some spike on Evo, some spike on Young Again. Young Again claims to be the only dry food suitable for diabetic cats.

It is unfortunate that your furbaby (her name? and yours if you don't mind?) is so fussy about shots and you don't feel you can home test. Home testing would make it much easier to gauge if the food changes are having a positive or negative effect. A lot can happen quickly in a sugarcat's system and too much insulin can disguise itself as not enough.
Most of our cats don't even notice the shots. What gauge syringes are you using?

I would encourage you to start a spreadsheet and hang around the board. There are so many wonderful experienced people here willing to help. Most of us credit the board with our sugarcats' lives.

 

Wow, this is beginning to sound like Dottie. She wants dry so badly. It would mean bumping up her insulin, probably to astronomical levels. She absolutely hates the feel of the wet food.

Tonight she actually ate her wet food..if forced to, she'll eat it twice a day, but then only a half ounce at each meal..far too low for her to keep on the weight she has now.

 

Yes, but I don't want to change the healthy cats' food too quickly, and I'm not certain that's the only solution, though it may offer the best control of Tara's diabetes, I do not want to cross the line into obsessing about it. We've selected some canned foods with low carb values, of course the fish flavors they like better than the chicken flavors. I've read that giving fish everyday is not optimal due to high mercury content. To further complicate matters, the feral colony outside (from which two of our males were captured as kittens when they first left the nest and were bottlefed to tame them, before the outdoor colony was trapped and neutered) will have to remain on the very inexpensive commercial dry food which costs us roughly $6 per month per cat. All of them LOVE that food. I think the manufacturer puts something on it that's very palatable and addicting. Thus, everytime I open up the pail, one of the indoor males comes over and eats some of it while I take a scoop outside for the ferals. These issues we can probably manage differently, but they do get jealous of each others' foods when one thinks another is getting something "better" even if that better is really "worse" (from a health standpoint). It would be sooooo easy if it was just Tara!

I have been advised by my partner that we can't afford Young Again Zero, she said it's more expensive than Purina DM, which we had already ruled out.

Tara is the diabetic cat's name, mine is Ken. The needles' gauge is 29, 1/2 cc syringes. Do you have a pointer to a home testing FAQ and primer? As far as her being scary and temperamental, I think it depends upon whether the needle passes through a nerve or nerve ending, which as near as I can tell is a random thing. She's a long hair with a dense undercoat, and just finding some skin is one of the first time-consuming steps once she's bagged and muzzled. When she was very sick, back at the beginning, she didn't notice anything. Now she has her fight back in her, this is very typical for her, and her only. We've owned cats for some 30+ years, and it's just her personality. As long as we're not trying to stick her with a needle, or trim her nails, or the long hair on her rear end so she can more easily use the litterbox without unintentionally spreading feces around the house, she's quite happy with us.

Thank you! I have spreadsheets. Actually lots of them accrued over the years with every illness, the data in top post was transcribed from one of them with Tara's diabetic issue. I just ruled out using Google spreadsheet years ago because they didn't have color available (no color was a deal breaker for me). Instead I use Gnumeric and keep the files local. Now that Google has coloring of cells and (maybe) text available, it's more useful to me.

Your templates are laid out better than mine for diabetes (diabetes is new to me since December of last year), though I'm not sure I want to be sticking Tara multiple times throughout a day for a curve, that would decrease her happiness with us quite a bit, and is one of the reasons I'd prefer having the vet stick her for BG tests.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

The bagging and muzzling may well work against you. It's imperative to make the testing as painless and calm as possible. A cat that's been muzzled will likely have panic mode going. Things kind of go downhill from there. I am not being critical..if you've been having the vet test her..well, they frequently can't take the time to talk her into it..so right away she's in Battle Mode, simply because they had to get things done as quickly as possible.

Can you possibly start making approaching Tara's ears a pleasureable thing? Say, just touch her ears for a start, and give her a reward treat? You might have to back off a bit and re-group until she's calmer. Many folks here have various tricks of the trade to get their cat to allow testing. One even blows on her cat's ears, and smothers her with kisses. I usually scritch Dottie under her chin...she loves it. But a favorite food kept for only testing as a bribe can sometimes do wonders.

Shaving an area of skin might help with finding it for injection purposes. My Dottie has a very dense underfur, even though she's shorthaired. So I know what you mean about thick-furred. I'm giving my fair share of furshots.

 

Nice to "meet" you, Ken and Tara.

Most of us use 30 or 31 ga syringes...the size difference is quite noticable. I agree with Jeanne about the restraints possibly adding to the problem. Have you ever tried injecting her while she is distracted by a meal or treat? The M.O. here is test/feed/shoot with feed and shoot usually happening at the same time.

Hometesting Links and Tips

Testing & Shooting Tips

 

It is more expensive by weight, but not per kcal. It's extremely dense, containing I believe almost 500 kcal/cup. It was cheaper for us to feed than premium canned foods are. Just my experience but if you're considering it you may want to keep that in mind.

 

The muzzle has a calming effect on her. It's made of perhaps nylon fabric, is sort of cone shaped, and covers her mouth and eyes, it has a breathing hole in the front, and is fastened with Velcro. Once that is on her, particularly with her eyes covered, I pick her up and place her in the bag and she pretty much goes limp, except she helps as she has learned how to tuck her tail into the bag before we zip it up.

She's fine unless she feels the needle, then she sort of freaks. She has always had very sensitive skin.

We try to make the insulin shot as pleasurable and painless as possible. I don't know that we will never test ourselves. I'd prefer to get her on more canned food, somehow, as I believe the results so far show that she won't need insulin (or frequent testing) if the carbs can be reduced enough.

I've only read one webpage, some days back, about using the ears for home testing, and I know next to nothing about the equipment required or how to use it, though I see some equipment mentioned in signatures and in spreadsheets. I've also read that some folks use the paws. Perhaps. I'll have to read more about it.

 

The shaving part is mostly for injecting. Some cats have such darn dense fur that it's almost impossible to find the skin. I did shave the very edges of Dottie's ears though. The fur kept wicking away the blood drops. Now she's looking sort of like some modern girls, who choose to shave their hair along the side of their head..only on Dottie, it's her ear-edges. She's in fashion!

It would be great if Tara only needs a food change to help her get back to normal. But if it doesn't turn out that way, please do consider home testing. It can be done, some folks here have pretty frisky cats who have been challanging..it just takes a bit of time

 

I was wondering about needle size, a pharmacist told me there were finer needles available, and I've done some searching online, but just briefly. I will read through your links, perhaps tomorrow morning. No on the shot during feeding, but we can try it tomorrow.

Nice to meet you too, Andy & Pimp. I'm now thinking I chose the wrong username and photo!

 

Well, it all really is a lot to take in at first. My vet handed me insulin, some spare syringes and some urine test strips and sent me on my way. I don't think he meant to shoo me off..It all depends on the owner and how involved they really want to get. Perhaps he just didn't want to scare me at first. Didn't matter...I was TERRIFIED.

Yes, the needles can be very fine. Lancets alone come as small as 33 gauge. Don't know myself if they come any finer than that, they are like tiny little hairs. The syringe tips I use for Dottie's shots are 31 s with a length of only 8mm ... 5/16"

 

Hi Ken. I feel your pain. I have 11 cats in the house to feed only one of which is diabetic. They used to be free fed kibble and at first the change was completely unacceptable to them. They are getting better about it though now that they understand the routine. First is testing Colin, then to the kitchen where I fix several bowls of canned food, put the bowls down, then a few steps to the kitchen table where I put the kibble for the kibble addicts( I use Natures Variety Chicken 12% carbs). Then back to the kitchen to stand guard so Colin only eats his food. Since he eats so fast, I've started giving him his food a spoon at a time spread thinly over a saucer. I do this 4x/24 hrs. Days when I'm not home, I put Colin in the bedroom with auto feeder and leave the kibble out for the others.
As for the shots, some find shooting while their cats are eating helps- not for Colin that's when he jumps. He also used to occasionally jump before I had a patch shaved over his shoulder/scruff area, not sure why, but since the shaving he hasn't moved when shot. Another thing I do is feed 3/4 of his food, then shoot, then the last 1/4. He knows the food's coming, so he waits. Also try pinching the area you shoot, gently massaging and pinching like you're going to shoot, but don't. Do this repeatedly, then when you do shoot she won't be expecting it and may sit. Be sure that you are completely relaxed and not tensing expecting her to jump, because she can sense that and will jump. The hardest part of this has been finding a routine that works for us, I'm still tweaking it, but we're doing better after a really tough start, hope you can find your routine soon.

PS, thank you for yor TNR work. That's how I got all my cats!

 

Hi Ken. I'm glad Chris let you know we all have similar/same spreadsheets. It is impressive but I definitely can't take any credit for it's creation! Kudos to the wizard who developed it!

Just to explain the 14u I am giving Menace, she tested positive for a condition called Insulin AutoAntibodies (pretty rare high dose condition) so while I think her pancreas had had the odd sputter here and there, she does not use insulin effectively. This may have been partially responsible for my not seeing any lowering with the EVO but back then I didn't know she had IAA and despite that I'd still expect some movement from lowering her overall carb intake. So the tapioca remains a questionable for me. I too read that it is a novel starch and I am currently trying a new lower carb food (still not low enough but my options are very limited in Canada!) that also has tapioca in it and have not seen any rise in her numbers and happily, she seems to be having more hopeful "sputters" lately. So who knows. Putting a finger on any particular culprit is sometimes tricky!

 

I called Evo a while back and asked what had changed in their formula that had caused the carb increase. They said it was the addition of tapioca. They said it was because they were getting too many complaints about the kibble breaking up too much in the bag. I told them then that those of us with diabetic cats that really relied on their food couldn't care less about that!

Maybe if enough people took a few minutes to make a phone call or send an email, they'd start making a formula without it? Can't hurt, right?

 

They do. Animal digest. (They also put it in Fortiflora.)


Mogs
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Google sheets has a 'note' function - similar to Excel's 'comment' functionality. It's very very useful for including additional information to give greater context to the BG readings without cluttering up the cells themselves.


Mogs
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@Mogmom and Goofus

When did they change the formula? I always put a supply of the food into a large canister and the amount of crumbling I noticed with the EVO was huge (but like you said, who'd care if it worked!) so maybe I had the earlier formula or does it still crumble a fair bit? Hasn't been available here for awhile so now you have me wondering!

 

I use a SureFeed Microchip Feeder by Sureflap for my high carb dry food addicts in the house. If you cats are not microchipped - I suggest that they get chipped - but the feeder comes with a couple of collar tags that will also open the feeders. These feeders have been godsends and worth every bit of their high price when trying to have diabetics in the house with dry food eaters.

My current OTJ diabetic Cecil eats EVO and it hasn't affected him. He quit eating well when his best bud was ill with cancer so we let him have the EVO 'cause hard was all he would eat.

This seems to be hit and miss to me. Last bag I had open was just a tub of crumbs, this bag is good solid pieces. Bought both bags at the same time. I think it might just have to do with the moisture content of the run. Since they only have to meet guaranteed analysis on commercial food, every bag/can of food can have a slightly different makup.

 

Welcome!

The lower carb dry foods are problematic in that they must use a starch in the manufacturing process to bind the dry food together (otherwise, it would remain a powder). This means that while the food may be lower in carbs, it's not low glycemic, which is what our diabetic cats really need to help them out with their blood glucose levels. Some cats are more sensitive to these types of foods than others. Bandit can't eat even a few pieces of EVO dry or his blood sugar levels will shoot up. It's good to stick to low carb, canned food only unless your cat absolutely refuses to eat canned food. One way to do this in house with multiple cats is to feed controlled portions in seperate rooms, or to just feed all the cats a low carb, canned food you can afford for all of them. However, there's other factors at play that may impede your management of his diabetes.

The key three factors in getting your cat in remission are the right food (low carb, canned), the right insulin (Lantus, Levemir, or Prozinc), and dose adjustments based off daily hometesting. Results from the vet are not accurate because cats often have inflated blood glucose levels during office tests, and the testing is not frequent enough to get good control over their blood glucose levels. For example, it takes at least 3 tests a day with Bandit to see how the see how the insulin is working--once before each shot, and one test in the middle of the cycle to see how much the insulin is lowering his blood glucose levels. A cat getting too much insulin will often have numbers just as high as a cat getting too little insulin, so it's impossible to know which is which without daily testing. Cats don't show physical signs of hypoglycemia until it's severe and life threatening, which is another reason why we home test.

Vetsulin isn't one of the recommended insulins for cats, because the duration of action isn't long enough (cats' metabolisms are twice as fast as people or dogs). If you don't have good control with it yet after nearly 8 weeks, you might want to think about switching to one of the recommended insulins. If you need to convince your vet to do so, here's a copy of the current management guidelines for diabetes from the American Animal Hospital Association that you can print out and bring in. The very first paragraph under Insulin therapy in the cat states,
"The insulin preparations with the appropriate duration of action in most diabetic cats are glargine [i.e. Lantus] (U-100) or the veterinary-approved human protamine zinc insulin (PZI U-40).

This panel does not recommend the veterinary-approved porcine zinc (lente) insulin [i.e. Vetsulin] suspension as the initial treatment for the cat, because its duration of action is short and control of clinical signs is poor."

I don't mean to overwhelm you with all this information, but I just wanted to give you an idea on things that might help your treatment of his diabetes. Bandit has been diabetic for 7 years now, and he's only needed insulin for less than 2 of those years, so it's definitely possible for a cat to live a long and healthy life with diabetes with the right treatment.

 

I can say with certainty that Young Again Zero Carb does not raise Murphy's blood sugar - it is extremely dense - 1 cup has 600 calories so Murphy only gets 1/8 cup twice a day - unfortunately he developed an aversion to it and will only eat it occasionally. But when he does, he always goes into the greens and I know it will be a good day. Evo absolutely raises his blood sugar - with no doubt. It is infuriating about the tapioca - I will also contact the company to complain, as was suggested. @Merlin told me about another food recently - it's called Waggers - it's a semi-moist food (no starch or grains) - - this food also gives Murphy good blood sugars . Another possibility is Epigen 90. There's also a food in the refrigerator section of Petsmart called FreshPet Vital - semi moist as well - catinfo site gives 4 or 5% carbs.

 

I have been feeding Wysong Epigen 90 no starch for Stubbie's time with me. Also Evo Cat & Kitten dry, along with Merrick pates. I am eager for another dry food that's similar--low carb. They get b-0-r-e-d.

 

Evo Cat & Kitten dry is what raised Tara's blood glucose. It looks like the glycemic load of tapioca starch is rather high.

 

Try Waggers - it's hard to find but you can order it online - I'd be curious to see if others have had a good result from it I would like to point out that I don't think that Young Again is any more expensive than other food - they eat so little of it - Murphy is 11.5 lbs and he needs only about 1/4 cup a day

 

Hello. I saw that you were talking about Waggers. Attached is the email that I received from a Waggers representative. The reason why I found this one is because I couldn't persuade my parents to give their cat canned food (cat is non-diabetic) so this is the best dry that I could find for their cat. I really liked the low phosphorous content too, the food was semi-moist and it is a little less calorie than Young Again which I think is 600 Kcal per cup.
************
Hi Cindi,
Thank you for interest in our product it is greatly appreciated. All three flavors contain the same amount of protein, carbs, and phosphorous. Our food is fairly high in protein (roughly around 40%) and is low in carbohydrates (less than 12%). Our food also is starch free which contributes to the concept of no added sugar.
The percentage of phosphorous is 0.7%, the dry matter is 72.56% and the calorie content is 3750 Kcal per bag and 475 Kcal per cup.
I hope this answered your question Cindi and have an awesome weekend!

Sincerely,

Waggers Customer Service


--
Helping people nurture & share happy moments with their pets

Molly Bailey
Customer Service/ Administration
Waggers Pet Products
W: waggers.com
E: molly@waggers.com
T: 1-888-962-4763

 

Thanks Cindi and thank you again for finding Waggers It's so good to have another alternative!!! Hope you are well

 

Thanks for all the alternatives! How long can semi-moist food remain in the dish? (like Waggers, says it's 30% moisture) How is it best stored? Room temp? Refrigerator? Freezer?

With dry foods which are usually about 10% moisture, I don't worry about how long it is in the dish. Once a bag is opened, I transfer all of it into a food-grade plastic pail with a Gamma Seal lid which is stored in the house at room temperature. Then it's dished out daily.

With canned foods, which are often 78% moisture, I've read 4 hours in the dish is max, though some folks say 12 hours. The issue as I understand it is microbial growth, which occurs at higher moistures. Storage: our cats in the past have been picky about canned foods, and once a can is opened, I've read it can be kept for 7 days in the refrigerator. We have found Tara will reject refrigerated canned food (strange), so we freeze any unused portions, then let it defrost before giving it to her.

 

I can't speak to semi-moist food as I'm not familiar with it, but my rule of thumb is that canned foods can be left out at room temp for up to 6 hours, and 12 hours if they were frozen first. This can be extended if you have a feeder that takes a cold pack and freeze the food--the longest I've left food out for the cats is 18 hours, or 3 meals in the feeder, frozen, with the cold pack.

My Gabby was like this with her food sometimes. Try warming it to room temp in the microwave...cold food doesn't smell as appetizing to some cats. Odd that she'll eat the frozen, though! Are you defrosting it in the microwave?

 

"No" to using the microwave, though we'll likely try it now that you've mentioned it! And all this fancy automated equipment is all new to us, I think we're going to prioritize a glucose meter first, like within the next few days.

We let the frozen food air defrost on the counter (a particular kitchen counter we've discouraged the cats from jumping up on), it takes maybe 1/2 hour to defrost, haven't timed it exactly just yet. We use a can opener on the can so there's no rim remaining, plop the food with the can upside down on a piece of wax paper (I think we actually use baking paper) on a dish, and slice it like a pie into 1/8 sections (works well with patés). Then we give them those slices, and freeze any remainders for later. They usually eat 1/2 can between three cats, including Tara. Those little pie slices air defrost fast since they're small. We just break them up with a fork before giving it to Tara, but yes, they're probably still somewhat cold, but they're definitely no longer frozen.

They never stay in the freezer for more than a day, but I have no idea why she won't eat the refrigerated food, maybe it picks up odor of fresh onions or garlic from the crisper or something, (we have a cat food can lid) just not sure.

I don't want to make any changes in the routine until we get that glucose meter. The last time Tara was at the vet, she bit him hard, so now he doesn't want to see her for a month, and I want more feedback on the blood glucose, not less. Tara can be ornery!