My cat that is not diabetic just got vetsulin

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Valerie123, Jul 1, 2017.

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  1. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Hi I am new to this group and had a mistake this morning. My cat that is not diabetic received a dose of 5 units of vetsulin. His BG is 160 and I have given him Kuro syrup, let him eat can friskys wet food and nutrition cal on his leg for him to lick off. My question is how long does the vetsulin last?
     
  2. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of insulin for a diabetic cat, let alone a non-diabetic. I would strongly suggest that you ring the vet to explain, they may say take your cat in where they can monitor him. How long ago did you give the 5u and have you got any other numbers since then? We need to see if he's going up or down. The Vetsulin can last several hours so you need to know what's going on for a good while yet.
     
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  3. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    7 am test was 160 tested now 105
     
  4. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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  5. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Which country and time zone are you in? What time is it now? He is dropping and we need to know where in the cycle of the insulin's action you are.

    Can someone @Yong maybe link this thread to the Main Health forum please?
     
  6. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Was just thinking that ;)
     
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  7. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Has been linked on Health.
     
  8. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Valerie123 , How many hours ago did you give insulin, and what is the situation now?
     
  9. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    It's 8 am
     
  10. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    So the two numbers you've given us are an hour apart, yes? That's a big drop and he will probably drop now. I really do suggest you ring the vet.
     
  11. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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  12. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @Valerie123 can you tell us in hours how long ago you gave the shot?
     
  13. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Yes 1 hr apart bad thing is ural area no vet for three hours away. There are veterinarians local but they charge way to much for emergency visits.
     
  14. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    At least ring them though and ask them to talk you through what to do.
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it might be a case of NEEDING an emergency visit.
     
  16. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Agreed!

    @Valerie123 , How many HOURS ago did you give the shot? (We're all in different time zones).
    .
     
  17. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    @valerie, the karo will act for a while and then wear off. And it's working against the insulin all the time. So you need to keep testing, and keep giving high carb food and/or karo as necessary.

    What kind of high carb food do you have?
    .
     
  18. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I did waiting for a call back
     
  19. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Feeding frisky wet
     
  20. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Your best approach would be to get your kitty to an ER vet ASAP. In the meantime I would give syrup (Karo. corn syrup, pancake syrup etc) If you can't get them to eat it with food then rub it on the gums. That amount of insulin for a non diabetic is a critical situation.
     
  21. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Have you got any dry food you can give him? It's much higher in carbs which is what we need. And you may need to rub some more syrup onto his gums.
    How is he acting? Normal or not?
     
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  22. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Only give HC foods and in small amounts...something with gravy or even a HC dry food. You want your kitty to be willing to eat and take syrup, especially if it is a long drive to the vet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  23. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Valerie, how many HOURS ago did you give insulin?

    Do you have any source of high carb food in the house?

    5 units Vetsulin is a heck of a lot of insulin for a non-diabetic cat. It is going to take work to keep his blood glucose up, and it may be that the blood glucose drops faster than you are able to keep up with. I strongly suggest you seek vet help with this....
    .
     
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  24. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Valerie, please do another test now and see what the situation is.
    .
     
  25. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also Vetsulin is a faster acting insulin and can drop numbers rapidly, especially in the first 4 hours. An emergency visit is really the best advice in order to avoid a potential deadly situation.
     
  26. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Yes... Valerie, please heed what we're saying. This is an emergency situation and your cat needs medical assistance.
     
  27. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    What flavour Friskies wet? Anything with gravy or is it pate? Dry food will take about an hour to kick in, hopefully he'll be at ER vet by then.
    Eliz, pretty sure we're just at +1 :(. She gave shot at 7am her time, and it's now 8am her time.

    Can you re-test, Valerie?
     
  28. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so that 7am test was preshot?
    This is very serious....

    @Valerie123 - please test again and continue to give syrup or some high carb food until you can get vet help. This is an emergency situation.
    .
     
  29. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'll add my voice to the clamour again: this is a true EMERGENCY. Your kitty's life might well depend on prompt vet attention. There's no gentler way I can say this. :(
     
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  30. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    How is he doing ?
    He is probably going to need the vet to raise his numbers intravenously just food is probably not going to be enough, I also think this needs a VET
     
  31. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Please get your kitty to the ER, take the karo with you, even if the ER is 5 minutes away.
     
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  32. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    He is 108 so that's better then 105 20 min ago
     
  33. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    That may just be the karo, it lasts about 20 minutes. Those numbers are relatively the same, please do not think he's leveling out. Are you taking him to one of the ER's?
     
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  34. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Yes these numbers are the same. He has a long way to go yet before you can consider him safe. PLEASE take him to a vet as soon as you possibly can.
     
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Vetsulin, as you probably know, will peak around 4 to 6 hours after a shot and generally lasts 8 to 10 hours in most cats. The drop from initial BG reading to nadir can be large. If I understand your posts, your kitty isn't yet 2 hours past injection time.
     
  36. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    With having given karo that number should be MUCH higher. Reaction times for Vetsulin can be most pronounced between 2-4 hours after the shot. The worst is still to come. PLEASE PLEASE take him to the ER right away. especially if it is a long drive. Quite frankly his life could depend on getting immediate treatment.
     
  37. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I was told what I am already doing is working I have to monitor him all day on the hour and continue kuro and testing. The lowest he will be with the vetsulin I was told will be in four hours from time of injection.
     
  38. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Yes so I will be testing all day long before he is out of the woods
     
  39. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    I think you may need to monitor even more frequently than every hour and give him really high carb food not only karo, karo only lasts a few minutes.

    I find strange that they did not told you to take him because he may need his numbers up intravenously food and karo may not be enoug
     
  40. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Is that what the ER clinic said:eek:? I know it might be tough on his ears but I would not wait every hour to test him and there is no guarantee his lowest point will be at +4 from injection.
     
  41. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Valerie, can you tell us why you can't get to a vet? Is it distance or money, or both? Do you have friends or family around who can help? This is really very serious and it is far better to be safe than sorry.
     
  42. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    It's the money. I live in a very ural area and the vets charge way to much here. My mother in law took a dog that had a puncture on it side and they charged her over $500 for a e collar and an ex ray and meds that were double the cost. When I found out my other cat was Diabetic I was charged over $1000 at the end of getting him regulated on the vetsulin only to find out that I can do a blood curve on my own with a alpha trak 2 for pets.
     
  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you have any temptations treats they work fast for bringing up bg
     
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  44. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    How is your cat behaving?
     
  45. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    He's acting fine no issues yet he is eating again so this is good
     
  46. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I don't think I have those but I'll check I do have some treats I'll check the carbs and sugar in them.
     
  47. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    That's not quite right.
    What the vet meant was that the insulin may have it's peak activity (greatest effect) at around 4 hours after the shot. But we've had cats here who had insulin peak up to 6 or 7 hours after the shot with Vetsulin. Cats vary in their response to insulin. Also, when the dose is too high the peak may happen later than is 'typical' for the cat.

    And be aware that cat's blood glucose can drop too low way before the peak of the cycle if the dose is too high.

    You will need to keep testing often until you are sure that the blood glucose is no longer dropping and is definitely rising on it's own accord (and not due to food intervention). At this point I'd suggest you test every 15 to 20 minutes so you can get a picture of what the cat's blood glucose is doing, and try to 'nip any problems in the bud'.

    Are you using a human glucose meter or an Alphatrak?
    .
     
  48. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Alfa trak and he just hit a low he is 66 but he did it more wet food and I did give more karo syrup
     
  49. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    He doesn't like being forsed to do anything and I need to trim his nails he got me good
     
  50. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    We are 2 and 45 min at from injection
     
  51. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    We really don't want him going any lower than 66. Did you say you had dry food or high carb treats? Don't feed too much wet food as it isn't high carb enough and will fill him up when he needs to get more carbs into him.
     
  52. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    2 ???????
     
  53. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    2 hours 45 min treats are party mix or proplan protein crunch
     
  54. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately the Vetsulin web site is down right now but here is some information on onset and duration with kitties:

    "The duration of activity of Vetsulin generally ranges from 14–24 hours in dogs. Click on icon for full image: In cats, the peak activity following subcutaneous administration of Vetsulin occurs between 1.5 and 8 hours (with an average of about 4 hours1), and the duration of activity varies between 8 and 12 hours."

    Since each kitty is different there is no way to know when the peak and end of duration will be with your civie kitty, so you would need to be testing for a while to come.
     
  55. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    It's been about 15 min tested again and he is 85 but again he just ate and I did give more karo
     
  56. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    You absolutely do not want him going below that number. Numbers below that can be considered hypoglycemic on an Alphatrak meter.
    .
     
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  57. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I tested him again and he is 85
     
  58. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I tested again and 85 now
     
  59. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Valerie, well done for getting these tests. We all know that it's not an easy thing to do, especially under pressure. But it is SO important, so well done. :bighug:

    Keep testing every 15 minutes at this point. We do not want him dropping again.

    The effect of the insulin will be increasing at this point; think of a steam train on a track running down a valley - it speeds up as it gets closer to the bottom, and then, when it's reached the bottom of the hill and starts coming up again, it slows down...
    That's how it is when we give an insulin shot. The effect of the insulin increases (like that train that speeds up when going downhill) as it gets to the peak of the cycle. Then, when it's past the peak of the cycle (or bottom of the hill) it starts running out of steam, and it slows down... So, it's really, really important at this point to keep testing, and to give glucose and food as and when appropriate.
    Even a minute in low glucose numbers can be really dangerous for your kitty, so it's very important to keep focussed at this point. Your cat's life may depend on it.

    Did you say that you may have some higher carb treats in the house? If so, I'd suggest you give a few to your kitty.
    It's good that your kitty wants to eat, but we don't want him become too full to eat more, so only give small amounts. And concentrate on giving him those foods with the highest carbohydrate content.

    .
     
  60. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I tested again and we are at 3 hours he is low again 57 this time he went to the bathroom had diarrhea and vomited not good signs at this point will test again in 15 min
     
  61. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Give syrup immediately, even if you have to rub it onto his gums. This number is HYPO!!! ..And if you can't give it orally then give it rectally. NOW.
    .
     
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  62. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    If he is vomitting you can take the needle off a syringe, fill it with karo and give it rectally. You need to get those numbers up.
     
  63. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I had posted this on the other thread but am copying it here so that you have a better idea of how serious the situation can get:

    "Also since he is not a diabetic, even if the numbers can be raised, his body's natural regulatory system will cause the pancreas to produce more endogenous insulin (natural insulin the body produces) in order to bring the levels down. So you can be dealing with both endogenous insulin and exogenous insulin (injected insulin)"
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  64. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Ok
     
  65. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I know finances are an issue, but I really think he needs veterinary intervention. PLEASE do reconsider taking him to the vet!
     
  66. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I tested again and we are at 79
     
  67. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    OK.
    How much syrup did you give, and how did you give it?
    .
     
  68. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    He ate a few treats and only maybe 1/2 cc if that of karo I don't want him to throw up again
     
  69. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    I may need to get him an iv and dextrose I called around and found a vet to help
     
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  70. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That would definitely be the best solution. This could go on for many hours and even with home treatment there is no guarantee that he won't go into seizures and/or coma. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  71. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Yes!!! ...Well done. It's the safest way....

    How far is the vet from you?
    .
     
  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Please keep us posted. We all worry about every kitty.
     
  73. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    any update?
     
  74. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    More prayers for Valerie's kitty.❤️
     
  75. CatMamaG

    CatMamaG Member

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    Hope he's doing ok.
     
  76. Valerie123

    Valerie123 Member

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    Just want to say thank you to all I talked to today. My cat is doing great. I got him into a vet and they gave him dextrose and checked him every hour. The vetsulin I found out only stays in the cats system for 11 hours and yes 4-6 hours were the worst with the lows. I am glad he is ok and learned a lot from this today. It is now 7 pm and I am exhausted. Thank you all again.
     
  77. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic to hear....very nerve racking just reading the posts never mind being there.
     
  78. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the update. So glad everything worked out well with your boy.

    :bighug::bighug:
     
  79. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Glad everything turned out well :)
     
  80. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Valerie, I am so relieved to hear the great news! I have worried about your kitty all day. I'm so glad he's okay. (((Hugs))) to you and scritches to Kitty! Hope you can get a solid night's sleep now!:bighug::cat::bighug::cat::bighug::cat::bighug:
     
  81. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Great news. Check out the vetsulin forum and the health forum. Why don't you stick around. One never knows when a second (or third or fourth) set of eyes are needed.
     
  82. CatMamaG

    CatMamaG Member

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    Thank goodness!!!
     
  83. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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  84. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Valerie, what a relief! ...I think there have been many prayers winging their way to you and your kitty....

    If it's any consolation you are not the first person to have accidentally given insulin to the wrong cat. It has happened a couple of times before on this forum.

    Do please stick around.
    This is a great community for folks with diabetic kitties. :bighug: :bighug::bighug:
    .
     
  85. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Big relief
     
  86. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Such great news!! Very relieved ... :bighug::)
     
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Another sigh of relief heaved here too! :D
     
  88. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad he's okay well done
     
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