My Cat Tyler.

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by PussCatPrince - GA, Nov 25, 2017.

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  1. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Morning from New Zealand.
    Get right down to it. Growing concerns for Tyler and that we are doing right by him.
    I hope I have put some info in the signature.
    Until July 2017 he seemed in good health despite being diagnosed CKD since April 2016 and so on a dry & wet renal diet. They call that 'top shelf' here. Downward since then. Considered healthy enough to have his dental April 2016.
    Beg July 2017 High blood pressure diagnosis . 1/4 tablet of Amlodipine a day.
    Follow up 26 July to check BP . Mentioned was not doing his usual daily jumps so Medacam 2 daily which has made no visual difference .
    Follow up 4 Sept. Diagnosis that he is diabetic. Start 2 units Lantus twice daily.
    Follow up 25th Sept. Fructosamine = OK for the vet.
    Follow up 25th Oct . Fructosamine tst = OK controlled .
    I mentioned that Tyler seemed to have developed a ravenous appetite. Also that he seemed to have started 'wobbling' on his back legs & I wasn't sure he could feel his back feet properly. Vet happy with the appetite thing but increased metacam to 3 units. He did check notes & feel re thyroid but all fine.
    Vet pleased . Follow up due 20th Dec.
    Except the past few weeks ........ The word ravenous for that appetite is an understatement. I haven't a word. Tyler would eat until he went pop. He would eat anything going. He was never a greedy cat. He browsed and stopped when he had enough. Now he vacuums the floor looking for crumbs. He would eat the treats for our duck. He scouts the garden for anything vaguely edible.
    Also the past few weeks..... that wobbling thing. It's all 4 legs now . It seems neurological in a way. Not arthritis.
    I do the urine testing thing 3/5 days. Always the same result. Not totally clear ( blue) but maybe on the first colour patch.(greenish). Was told by the vet OK unless test goes to the other end of that litmus paper. (Dark Brown).

    I do not know what to think.
    We take him back to the vets today (Sunday) but I think I need to hear from others out there who may have gone down this road somehow.

    thanks
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Ok, for the neuropathy, (leg weakness) you want to start him asap on vitamin b12 methylcobalamin. Normally I'd say 3 mcg of it, but with kidney's compromised only doing 1-2 mcg might be better. this will help, but what you really need to do is get his blood glucose in control. You cant just go by fructosamine tests... those only give you the average of the last three weeks, not a day by day picture. he could be really high part of the day, and really low part of the day and the average is perfect. do you see the problem? You need to get a blood glucose meter and test strips and start testing your cat. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat.

    The renal food is probably not low carb. You want to find a food that is low carb for the diabetes and low phosphorous for the kidney failure. maybe someone from your area could make suggestions on which foods are available that would fit that bill.

    Once you get the blood glucose in the normal range you will see his appetite go back to normal, and gradually over the next few weeks/months the neuropathy should improve.

    Do you have a copy of his latest lab reports you could post?
     
  3. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    Hi there and thank you for responding. Rather new to all of this really .
    No. We're not given any lab reports & we are with the best practice in the area. It is a choice of one .
    With the Vit B12. Would I simply get this from a natural herbal shop ?

    I'm doing the 3 day urine test strips . The vet does the fructosamine & hasn't suggested I home test. I'm happy to do that, no probs, but what does that tell me please? The time I should be injecting and feeding? I do this twice daily at the moment. 12 hours apart.

    I'm in a semi-rural area. It would only be the vet practice down in town ( which is also the teaching hospital ) that could recommend or find an alternative diet . There is no-one hereabouts and this being 'here' they would likely think I was over the top and bonkers to be honest. Last person I mentioned Ty's issues to said she would simply put him down. Too much cost for a cat. Cats here are often not seen as other than pests. Hence why when I came across this website whilst googling both conditions, I signed up.

    If anyone has any suggestions, I could see if I can source from somewhere, likely overseas. Here it is Hills or Canin.

    edit... May I just add a big thank you here. Just connecting is a boon. To know that others actually do all they can , like we wish to, makes you feel that you are not being ..silly. for wont of a better word.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    The b12, yes you can buy it in an herbal shop. If they carry capsules it's easy to just open and pour on the food. They are usually sold by 500 or 1000 mcg. 1000 mcg=1 mg.... You'll want to do about 2000mcg/2 mg per day. You can split it up between meals. Excess b12 is just peed out.... But with compromised kidneys your cat probably doesn't flush the system as efficiently, so that's why I say do 2mg instead of 3 mg.

    The 3 day test strips again are an average. To know what your cat is at the moment you need a blood test. It's not as hard as you would think, and you can use a human meter. Just pick one that uses a small 0.3 sample.
    When you get a chance watch the video in my signature.

    Testing is the best way to keep your cat safe and find the ideal dose.

    At minimum you would want to test prior to the shot to make sure the number is high enough to get insulin. (No food 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food influenced). Then when possible you will want to get at least one more test in mid cycle to see how low he goes.

    Good job getting your signature set up.... That's really helpful.

    @Yong

    You always know where everyone is from, Yong.... Who else here is from me Zealand /Australia that might suggest foods?
     
  5. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I’m not Yong, but, @Bron and Sheba is from Australia.
    Janet has given you great info. The only thing I’ll add is when you choose a methyl B12 supplement make sure there are no sugars, either natural or artificial.
     
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  6. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome. I live in Sydney Aust.
    I would recommend you home test the blood sugars. It is not hard and will give you much more information than the urine strips and the fructosamine tests. You can buy a human glucose monitor from the local chemist. I used the Abbott Optium and it was reliable.
    With the B12 Methyl tablets....I had to buy mine from overseas. Here is where I got mine
    https://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html

    With the food, you don't have to buy the expensive vet prescription foods.
    You do need to get food that is not high in phosphorus because of the CRD....do you have Weruva cat food in NZ?
    Most of the 'cats in the Kitchen ' brand of Weruva are not high in phosphorus.
    If you tell me some of the brands you can get in the supermarket I can tell you if they are suitable.

    What food have you been feeding up until now?
    When you change the food over to something else....if it is a lower carbohydrate food...you will need to be careful that your kitty's blood sugar does not drop down low. So it would be best to buy the monitor first and start testing the blood sugar and then change over the food. Someone here will help you get started with the testing of the blood sugar.
    Keep asking lots of questions...that is how we all learnt.:)
     
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  7. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Ah Bron. Sorry your Sheba is gone from you. Tough one.
    Thanks Janet and Sharon. I shall drive down to town this morning to case the place for B12 Methy (sugar free) and a meter. Have m'doubts as chemists/pharmacies here carry little & limited stock but will give that a go , before trying to find online. Will list what brands of cat foods are available from the shelf.
    Oddly Ty was quite good this morning on the wobble /ravenous front.
    I'll post about the vet visit & follow up phone call later on. Talk about hopeful one moment and frustrated the next.

    With the food . Would I do a gradual change over?
    Also, the blood glucose monitoring thing. Is the idea to fine tune the insulin injection? If so, I may need a different type of sharp then with finer increments . Is that so?

    A part of me is hugely relieved to have found this site. A part of me is worried and wary of hacking off the vet.
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If your cat is a kibble lover it might need to be eased into... you could put a bit of his familiar kibble on top of the wet until he gets used to it. How often and how much are you currently feeding? don't change the food until after you are testing as changing to a low carb food can drastically lower the cat's insulin needs.

    The monitoring is for

    1. making sure he's at a safe dose. It has happened so many times here that people continue to give the same dose for months and then BAM! hypoglycemia and the cat needs emergency care. So the idea is to first make sure that before each shot the number is shootable. (Just this week I had to skip three evening shots because my cat was too low to shoot... had I not tested and shot anyway my cat could have had a big problem.) You can also see if you look at my signature that my cat had a few low numbers this week as I think she's sliding into needing less insulin than she had been needing. The change was pretty sudden. Had I not tested her I wouldn't have known that and I wouldn't have realized she needed to be steered up with food.

    2. to tweak the dose. cat's insulin needs change fairly often. the only way to know if a dose is ideal at that moment is to test. This is why we recommend testing mid cycle... to see how low a dose is taking the cat. 1 unit for one cat may lower the bg just a few points, and for another cat it may plummet the number way down. The only way to know is to test and see.

    3. Monitoring takes some of the anxiety and guess work out of it.

    4. It's much less expensive and much more accurate to test and do curves at home then to bring the cat to the vet every month or so ... and a lot less stressful for the cat.

    Once I started testing at home my cat didn't go back to the vet for regular bg tests... I did email her a copy of CC's spreadsheet every few weeks so I could keep her in the loop of how she's doing. (which reminds me I should probably email her an update... it's been a while.) If you look in our signatures below posts, we have links to our spreadsheets there so that others can help with dosing advice if we need it. The info updates live which is so helpful.

    What you will need to buy is

    1. a monitor that requires a small blood sample (.3)
    2. a box of 100 extra test strips
    3. 26 or 28 gauge lancets (they are thicker then the 31 gauge ones that generally come with the meter)
    4. If you can find it, an antibacterial ointment... like a first aide cream... that you might put on the cats ears in case they need it
     
  9. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    So. That first trip was an epic fail. Looks like I will need to search online for both the B12 ( capsule form ? ) & a monitor that does a .3 sample. People were looking at me completely confounded. I will try another township tomorrow just in case.

    One B12 methy I was offered had neither the sugars nor the xylitol but was in drop form so impossible to regulate . I did note it also contained Potassium Sorbate which perhaps is no good anyway. Does all B12methyl contain this and is that why it is suggested for a very low dose ?
    None of the pharmacies had a .3 sample meter in stock . In fact a couple tried to tell me it was not possible & use a .6 which they would order in *sigh*

    Tyler is neither a dry or a wet food lover as he's always been given a bit of both. I feed 5/8th a cup if only dry but if with a wet pouch then less to adjust for that. Both are Royal Canin Renal diet . I did reduce the renal wet for a while to almost nothing as it was suggested the dry was better overall BUT I've now changed that to a mix again. His 5kg weight is stable right now. Mostly fat I would suggest as muscle tone is now completely rubbish. So he could do with being a little shy of 5kg but certainly no more than that.

    Brands in the supermarket were :
    Whiskers; Optimum; Purina; Friskies;: Dine; Chef : I couldn't see mention of potassium % , protein % on these products. Mind you they were not my best pair of spectacles.

    Oddly Tyler is not nearly so begging for food today as the past few weeks. Is that the stress of the vet visit yesterday afternoon playing on his levels? Was a tough, stressful visit for him with the man handling, the blood count , the journey .

    With the vet visit ( Sunday) we aimed to get across 2 things. Insatiable appetite . Wobbly legs and gait . It was a vet new to the practice & I felt we had done a good job as he saw the gait & listened. Ty definitely did the down on the hock thing + wobbly gait for a moment & the vet saw those back joints had been under a bit of duress. We mentioned diet, meds , adjustments , supplements , help several times so he was assured we expected no miracles but were looking for ways to improve Tyler from what we had seen develop the past month. Of course , one cannot guarantee that what one says may be dismissed as erroneous or neurotic & I didn't take a video of Tyler in action but I did think we explained ourselves well.

    Today I rec'd a call from the regular vet that has been seeing Tyler with ref. to our visit , the blood tests , their discussion. Bloods and tests came back as 'stable'.
    The suggestion is to up the pain med metacam from 3 to 5 units for 3 days and if no change to Ty , then a neuropathic pain med trial. He is also doing a thyroid test. To remember he is a very elderly cat so how much intervention is good intervention. So yesterday I felt heard. Today I feel unheard.

    If Ty is in excess pain or actually sharp pain or ache I know the signs and the sound he makes. He isn't. He is also still very much into his life. He is not inactive. Tried to chase a mouse that young Dusty ( long story about that puss ) had brought in today, all with his legs and paws not doing as he wanted. He may be old but there is life in my old boy yet.
     
  10. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    You will all get fed up with me . In my defence yer honour I want to get it right & have always been a details person. Can't help it.

    Will this B12 product do it please? I can get this online.

    Heck. Reading it, I might get a load for me too. :woot:
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Looks good to me. Two of those a day would be an amount of methylcobalamin B12 that’s equivalent to the amount in a supplement called Zobaline that many US members recommend.
     
  12. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    Just realised . This is not NZ/OZ based.
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Sorry you are having such trouble finding what you need. If you can find the b12 methylcobalamin in tablet form you can just crush it yourself.

    Is the One Touch Ultra meter available there? I think that's a small sample one. How about the Freestyle?
     
  14. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    This is the meter I used and you can buy it in NZ.
    https://www.pharmacydirect.co.nz/Freestyle-Optium-Neo-Blood-Glucose-Meter-Kit.html

    The B12 product you mentioned above looks suitable but as Kris mentioned you would need to use 2 tablets..
    It looks to me as if you can order it online from NZ.

    Do you have Petbarn in NZ? They carry a good variety of canned cat food.
    Whiskas has high phosphorus so I wouldn't use that.
    I'm not sure about the others, I'll try and find out.

    I remember when Sheba first got weak legs from Neuropathy....the vet had not heard of FD diabetic neuropathy I don't think....and I was ignorant at the time and didnt know. He wanted to try different things to solve the problem when what was needed was more normal blood sugar levels and the B12 supplement. Her legs improved and went back to normal over a period of time.

    We won't get fed up with you.......ask as many questions as you want......knowledge is power!
     
  15. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Worst case if you can't find a low phosphorus low carb food, you can do low carb and add a phosphorous binder (Aluminum hydroxide) to the food.
     
  16. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    It's proving awkward on the B12 front.
    I can get chewable tablets with flavours like cherry or chocolate. But these are mostly 3mg and as JanetNJ has written , because Tyler has CKD a 2mg dose is safer.
    With the link I made above , those are at least capsule form which is easier to try for a 2mg dose but it ships from the USA so with shipping costs I might as well go for the expense and lengthy delay by ordering zobaline in BUT again it seems to be a 3mg tablet. Anything shipped to New Zealand can take weeks to arrive . I was hoping to find something in days.

    I found something that came in a dropper bottle so no real way to be exact in dosage I think BUT that also had potassium sorbate as an ingredient which I think is no good at all.

    Tyler has quite a large sore wound from the blood testing on Sunday. They took it from his neck. My husband went in to the vet practice with a photo of this wound as it looks raw and we don't want infection.

    Vet now wants to see Ty tomorrow last thing . Insisting to still do a thyroid test, so that's another flaming blood test and will check the wound. My husband will come with me.

    Soz but I'm a bit poxed off.

    We don't have Petbarn here . There is an Animates store . I'll look there.
    I've altered the mix of renal dry with a touch of wet, to more wet than dry. Taken up all but one measuring container of water to try and pin just how much he is drinking.

    Bless his wonderful socks. He tried to reach up on his back legs this morning to place his paws on my knees.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  17. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    Will this do on the B12 methyl front please? I believe I can get this and quite quickly.
     
  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    That looks good. You could give one in the morning and one at night.


    Next time you call your vets office all the receptionist if she /he can email you a copy of the latest lab reports. I'm curious how advanced the kidney disease is.
     
  19. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    I've emailed Solgar direct to ensure on the ingredients.
    We are back tomorrow evening Wednesday 4.45pm . Time here is now 3.30pm Tuesday. I shall need to take care how we ask as this we don't wish to alienate the practice. There are no alternatives.

    We do get a comprehensive detailing of charges ,procedures and what tests are for. Not actually lab results.

    I looked back to the first one after the dental which was comprehensive April 2016. It stated he had stage II CRD. As nothing has been said other than 'stable' I gather this has remained unchanged.

    At that time it was suspected that elevated BG was due to stress which it very likely was. He hates the car journey .
    However 2 weeks later on a follow up I can see it was noted that "could be pre-diabetic"
     
  20. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Sorry. Me again. Meters.

    The Freestyle Optium Neo Blood seems to be a .6 blood drop. Have I seen this right ? @Bron and Sheba
    The Caresens N is a .5 blood drop.

    Janet suggested it should be .3 so those would be too big @JanetNJ
     
  21. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I just looked up the caresans N...I am unfamiliar with it. The reviews were not all that good. Read this....
    https://www.productreview.com.au/p/i-sens-caresens-n.html

    The Freestyle Optium Neo, I found, was a very reliable meter and I had no problem getting the correct amount of blood....it is still a very small amount.....personally I would go with the Freestyle Optium Neo. You can buy the test strips online ......eBay....for 1/2 the price as in the chemists as well. I would get the first strips at the chemist so you know what to buy next time. Each meter has specific strips.
     
  22. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Thanks.
    I have spent ages now trying to find a supplier for either the Freestyle Lite .3 or the Freestyle Optium Neo.
    Can order via ebay australia. Delivery times are two to six weeks. Likely more the six week end. *sigh*
    It will be doubtful I could just pick up the strips for either of these two at the chemist . It would be as I am trying to do which is order in.
    I think this Carsens N is the most used one here in NZ but I'm not keen on that review.

    I'll do the legwork and rounds again tomorrow to see if I can somehow get lucky with a Freestyle here on the doorstep.

    It's the same with the B12 methyl. I can get it shipped if I wait a good six weeks and pay far more for the shipping than for the product. Currently one of the Naturopathy shops is doing sterling work trying to locate this for me .

    Trying not to be utterly fed up and frustrated to be honest . I'm reading other newbies getting up and started with everything and me and Tyler are still struggling on . Not that I am not pleased and relieved for others . Just worried he will worsen.

    I am also going to ask a penpal friend in Australia if she can hep. Even then it will be about the shipping time.
     
  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I say just get whatever meter is available at your local pharmacy.
     
  24. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    Yes. I decided that overnight I think. I will ring around all pharmacies int he area to see if anyone has one. If it has to be ordered in then it needs to be somewhere on NZ soil if I am to have one shortly rather than in six weeks.
     
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  25. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    @JanetNJ @Bron and Sheba

    Success !
    I have managed to source and buy a Freestyle Optium Neo BG monitor + strips + lancet which should be with me Tuesday .
    & also the Methyl B12 by Solgar which comes in nuggets 1000mcg which will also arrive Mon/Tues.

    So relieved.
     
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  26. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    The return visit to the vet clinic Wednesday evening brought no change really. We saw the regular vet. We have blocked anymore blood being taken from his neck after the wound/bruise which is still a sight for sore eyes.

    Asked again about diet and the like as you never know do you. However his thoughts is still on pain management to improve mobility. He is unconcerned really about the mentals appetite as long as Ty is eating. He did give another all round examination and he is conscientious and thorough. He also took more bloods *sigh* for yet another thyroid test *sigh * which I knew would come back a negative, which it did *sigh*
    He wants the metacam upped to 5 unit per day for 3 days. If no improvement in gait or mobility he wants to add 1/4 tablet of Nupetin twice daily into the mix.

    At the moment Tyler is zonked out for the most part . No surprise really but it is also rather hot the last few days so must factor that one in.

    Anyway really this is me talking to me to relieve my worries a bit. I am looking forward to after the weekend when hopefully the 'stuff' will arrive and I can be more pro-active. Really really hoping this B12 methyl will be the answer to the gait.

    Have not yet altered Ty's diet away from the renal stuff as I'm not totally au fait with this carb and contents thing although I have understood no phosphorous. Don't really get the low protein bit as surely a cat needs protein for the metabolism. Anyway Ty is getting more renal wet than dry now but I don't like to see him tubby & I think this food has made him tubby really. A part of me also feels that the blasted renal diet may be what tipped Tyler to be diabetic.
    I would get other food if I felt sure it wouldn't impact badly on his kidney function. I have read about raw food diets but Ty wouldn't eat that. I wonder at some cooked chicken . I read that a cat food with liver might be good for his energy levels.
    So much to properly understand.

    Here is an odd thing. I had no problem with giving Ty the injections for the start. It had to be done. I am concerned about the prick the ear thing though. I will need quality spectacles on the end of my nose and hope that Ty doesn't get too impatient with that. I do the insulin injection quickly and smoothly. I forsee a bit of faffing around with the ear thing and Ty isn't the most patient these days with being fiddled with.

    Like everyone here. Really I just want him well again. My cat how he was just 6 months ago. My avatar reflects that. My hope for him was always that he would pass in his sleep just naturally .
     
  27. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    While you are going through a stressful and frustrating time, all will get better!

    The low carb diet will definitely help Tyler’s glucose levels. I was amazed how Monster’s numbers improved just by changing his diet.

    The ear prick will take a bit for you to get proficient with, but it will come quick. Try not to get frustrated if you are not successful on the first try. It took me a few days to “get it”. Even now, I still miss. It will get easier!

    Keep expressing your worries. Everyone here can provide excellent suggestions and ideas or just provide encouragement.

    This too shall pass and Tyler will be back to his old antics soon enough.

    Best wishes!
     
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  28. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Well that's excellent! Making progress!!
     
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  29. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Exceptionally late to my tag :oops: but as Sharon already pointed out Bron and Sheba are my go to for tagging Oz/NZ area members. I have a list of others in New Zealand and Australia but Bron still seems to be the only active member that I find. So glad she is still here :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I noticed @PussCatPrince was concerned about ear pricks. If it would be easier, you can test on the paw pads. I think the majority of member's prefer the ear but there are a couple that do test on the paw:
     
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  30. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    If you’re worried about his reaction to ear pricks, start practicing now. Take him to the spot where you’ll do the testing and rub his ear then give him a treat and let him go. Repeat several times a day and it will become routine. Then, when you get the test kit, you’ll be ready to go!
     
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  31. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    The metacam does wonders for arthritis/ pain but I doubt it will help with the peripheral neuropathy.
    Hopefully you will notice a difference with the B12 but it will take time to have an effect.
    I am glad you managed to get the Optium Neo monitor. :)
    Try not to get stressed about the ear testing. It takes a couple of days for you both to get used to it but it will soon be old hat...I promise!
    If you are stuck with finding a suitable low carb food, you could always give the Hills MDCanned. It is low carb 3.4% , high protein and I am pretty sure it is also low phosphorus......Lowprotein diet for CRD cats is old thinking ...except for late stage CRD. High protein is much better...the low phosphorus level is more important for CRD cats.
    You could feed some cooked chicken if you want but it is not a complete diet so you would not want to give more than 20% of it in the overall diet. It has no carbs in it so take that into consideration.

    Keep asking questions....you are doing really well getting sorted!
     
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  32. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    The B12 methyl has arrived :) .

    Still trying to work out and understand the diet / carbs thing really.

    From all I have been reading the Hills renal food is deemed better all round than the Royal Canin renal foods. Both do wet and dry.

    At the moment it is 1/4 cup or so of the dry Royal Canin renal and a pouch of Royal Canin renal wet.

    I am expecting the meter to turn up later today . That's a courier , an internal flight and a courier so it will be well travelled.
     
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  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Great! The wet food I'm sure is lower carb than the dry.
     
  34. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    The Hills renal food both wet and dry is very high in carbs too.
    The hills food I was taking about is the M/D canned food which is the diabetic food for cats from Hills. It is low in phosphorus and carbs and would be suitable. It is not low in protein but that is old thinking and now it is thought that high protein for renal cats is good until they are in the late stage of renal failure.
    I would not give any dry food as it is too high in carbs and it has very little moisture in it and CRD cats need moisture.
    This is the one I am talking about
    http://www.hillspet.com.au/en-au/pr...w-carbohydrate-glucose-management-canned.html
     
    JanetNJ likes this.
  35. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Can someone please check I have the correct spreadsheet display please?
    Obvs. I'm in New Zealand and using a human monitor.
    Thanks
     
    Dyana likes this.
  36. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I can see your spreadsheet. :)
     
  37. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Phew. I'm losing weight here. :D

    Ok. So insulin syringes . I have been reading all over this place about this and dosing.
    The insulin syringes provided to me are BD ultra-fine short needle. (31g) x 8mm.
    There are no 1/4 or 1/2 unit measures. It is 1 unit up to 30 units.
    Should I now be trying to locate a syringe with finer dosing ?
     
  38. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    yes those are the correct syringes for Lantus insulin.
    I doubt you can buy 1/2 unit syringes in NZ . We can't in Australia.
    You can buy them from overseas if you want to. I never did but I was given some by someone whose kitty had passed and they were great.
    Otherwise you just have to eyeball the 1/2 and 1/4 unit measurements. A magnifying glass is a good investment. I always used one for every dose.
    If you want the online site to buy them let me know and I will look back and find it.
     
  39. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Harumph. I just stabbed his ear'oles 3 times and didn't succeed in getting enough of the red stuff for a result so the monitor tells me. It is a hot day here so both our sets of ears are hot.
    I'll have another go laters otherwise he'll get the hump good and proper. He doesn't just sit and let you do it . He twists & says gerrorf me ears.
     
    Phoebes likes this.
  40. Phoebes

    Phoebes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    If you can get some blood on your nail before he shakes his head, take the sample from your nail. It works until you get better at timing, and furbaby gets used to it.
     
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  41. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    I do hope so . If not just call me The Scratched.

    Just had another go, although he tried to leg it when he saw the lancet despite the promise of a weeny something nice. Note to self: Let your Prince Ty not see the pesky blue thing.

    Anyway . I have a first reading . It was 17.1 mmol/L which I have input onto the world tab of the spreadsheet . It turned blue. It's about an hour before his shot and feed time. At the moment I am feeding twice daily to co-incide with his insulin shot. It remains the Royal Canin wet/dry mix until I can find the Hills wet.

    Just used the conversion calculator. That seems to be 345 mg/dL ?

    One tablet of B12 metyl 1000mcg this morning and he accepted the cherry flavour crushed tablet in with his food. Another this evening .

    So we begin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
    JanetNJ likes this.
  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    To convert to us numbers you multiply by 18, so 17.1 is about 308... not bad at this stage of the game. If you just input the numbers in the world tab it should automatically go into the us tab correctly, but for some reason it got messed up... not sure why.
     
  43. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Congratulations on your first test. :bighug: Yay!
     
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  44. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Thanks both. Went through 4 test strips this morning before I managed to achieve the 2nd test . Error of not enough blood. At 66cents a hit a hit I need to get more efficient. :facepalm:

    This morning : 15. mmol/L which is 270. A yellow.

    I managed to get that square from yesterday to convert properly. The formula was missing for some odd reason.

    From what has been written on this board, I think I should be testing in about 6 hours , a mid way point which I will do my best with. Tyler is not receptive to having his ears fiddled with . Hopefully , somehow, that will get better for us both.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  45. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    I completely and utterly suck at this. It's taken me a good 9 strips and 6/8 stabs to just get three results today.

    I'm upset. Tyler is wary just seeing the poxy box. Would the strike pen that comes with these lancets help? It is said a cat cannot feel this but he feels this it seems to me. I am using the 'sweet spot' picture. Problem is that even though it is hot weather here at the moment to get anywhere near enough blood I have to squeeze like no tomorrow. No fun for either of us.

    I don't even really understand what the readings mean in terms of Ty, food, injection dose.

    What a rotten day.
     
  46. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Sorry you're having so much trouble, and I know you've probably heard it before, but it really will get better!!

    I know you say it's warm, but are you warming up the edge of the ear anyway? Even if it's hot outside, getting that ear warm can really help.

    Are you giving him a special treat every time? Even when you don't get blood? If you poke 3 times and don't get any, take a break.....give him a treat and give yourself a little time to calm down and then start over in 10 minutes.

    I'd also like to suggest you start posting over in the Lantus forum. You'll get the most experienced eyes watching out for you there. Also when these threads get so long, they tend to get lost.

    Each day you post a new thread....One thread per day. If you need to, you can edit the subject line any time if you need to.

    In the subject line, we usually want the date, cats name and AMPS number ....as the day goes on, you edit it and add any other tests you get. That way the people that scan the forum for problems can see how you're doing quickly and reply sooner if they see something concerning.

    If your thread contains a question, add the ? prefix to your subject line too.

    In the body of your post, first put the link to the prior thread in....that way it's easy for people to quickly go back and see what's been going on.

    Then go ahead and ask any questions as well as just letting everyone know how he's doing.

    Hang in there!! I know it seems daunting right now, but we'll help you any way we can!!
     
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  47. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    @Chris & China

    I think the final one last night not going smoothly again was, at the time, just so.....rotten.
    As he has CKD II I'm wary of giving treats now. The vet said no treats actually as bad for him so we stopped . Bit sad as he used to play a 'find the treat under assorted cups' game as a part of his mental agility time of an evening.

    Thanks for listening and being there.
     
  48. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I disagree with your vet about not giving any treats to a CRD cat.
    My cat had CRD and I gave her suitable treats every time I tested her and it did not hurt her at all. It did not change any of her kidney values at all. She remained stable on a high protein, low phosphorus diet.
    A suitable treat would be a small piece if cooked chicken breast or thigh after each time you test.....actually I always gave Sheba the treat as I was testing so she could concentrate on eating it while I tested.
    You could buy a chicken breast or thigh and gently steam it in a little water and then cut it into pieces about the size of 1/2 licorice allsort. Freeze the pieces and get out as needed. There is no carbs and not a lot of phosphorus in the chicken so they are very suitable and it will probably make testing much easier to have her concentrating on the food. Use the left over juice from the chicken as well as a treat. Don't add any salt or anything else to the cooking process.
    Try humming a tune as you test.....it will relax you and Tyler will notice you are more relaxed.
     
    Dyana likes this.
  49. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Your vet is wrong....as Bron said, a little piece of chicken is actually a really good treat since it adds a little protein to his diet! The old school thinking was that protein should be reduced in CKD cats, but the newer research says it's actually better to stick with high quality protein to help prevent muscle wasting....you can't get much higher quality than home-cooked chicken pieces!!
     
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