Need some hope.

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Photorecon, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Hello,



    First, make yourself ready, this is no fun story but need help in make it better.



    A couple of months ago my cat ''P'tit chat Minou'' (Small Kitty) started to stop eating.

    Thinking it was a question of flavor I tried different kind of food without any results.

    I was sure it was food related because it's brother ''Gros Chat Minou'' (Big Kitty) had reduced the amount of food he was eating. Difference is P'tit chat minou was starting to look like a skeleton. Getting nowhere I went to see a Vet to get advice on what to do.



    At first he told to me he had to be hospitalized and plugged for a few days at several hundreds dollars a day. After some urinary and blood tests, he came back to me with the diagnostic, the cat was attain with diabetes and unitary infection. Being a rational men, I asked what it would cost to continue with this venture. The tests and diagnostic done during the hour was 600$ already, to continue with supplies, further tests and consultation was to cost another 400$. The other option was euthanasia at 250$. Logic was to continue, who would throw 600$ to garbage and loose his companion so I say let's go.

    I did my home works, started reading none stop to get a clear picture and what to do to get successful results. The original issue, cat not eating, was my first point to attack so I went on to learn what kind of food to choose. The vet recommended me Hills MD or something like that but the cats would not touch it. Also, at 2.50$ a can it was not a reasonable option but I needed something diabetic specific at first. I went on with Purina MD bought at another vet clinic, worked pretty well but was still expensive 4$ a day for both cat (haft a can each at the morning and same thing at 6, 1h. before injection). This was not so bad, was working but needed something more affordable. After a week of reading about carb, protein, water, fat...

    I found that :

    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf



    Down here in Québec (Canada) many cat food were not available or did not meet criterias. What I found to be the best option was the Walmart Cat Food ''Special Kitty'' wich hat a low carb level : 2.7; was 70% meat and 30% fat. I got this information from the nutritionist of the company making this food (I called them).

    But still, I was not fully comfortable giving ''cheap'' food to my cats so I mixed this food with Purina MD (50/50) for a total of haft a can of each per day (1 can a day for both cats). They were asking for more so I started taking ''P'tit chat minou'' on my knees and let him eat. Everything seemed ok, it seemed to get better except the GL was still almost 3 times higher than it should be (18-20 mmo/l) / (360 average). The test were done using the Vet meter (Alphatrak). This lasted for a month with the treatment with antibiotic for urinary infection done 2 weeks after my visit.


    I was so desperate that BG was not going down that I started looking for an alternative in regards of food.

    Dr. Lisa A. Person was very convincing on the benefit of raw food that I started studying this solution. For what I learned, raw meat only is no good, lots of nutriment and vitamins that a required for health are not present. So again, I was back to the drawing board looking for what was required with information from different sources.

    Dr. A Person seemed to have a recipe that was containing what was needed (vitamin B50, E, Torrine, salmon oil, Meal Bone, Meat with fat and so on...) I bought a meat grinder / mixer and bought some turkey wich, P'tit Chat Minou loved raw (without vitamins). I didn't give him that much.

    When my order for all the vitamins and other products arrived, I put everything with scramble eggs, slightly cooked meat (to kill bacteria), water... in the mixer and let it run. I was sure I had found the right cost/quantity solution. I was very apprehensive at first but got a conclusion pretty quickly, they would not touch the food. Even with a spoon under their nose my cats would turn their head and go away. All this time, energy and hope food and ingredients just been wasted. I was back to square one.


    In the main while, I had completely lost confidence in my Vet. He tried to sell me a human glucose meter (Accucheck Aviva) for 250$ + 50 strips for 125$) and no, it was not the Alphatrack II for pet, it was the one you get for free when purchasing 100 strips for 70$.

    Also, during this entire month I was not able to have any advice, all I was getting is conversation with a veterinary technician telling me everything was normal. This was not part of our deal, when I left the office, I asked the Vet if we had a partnership in this file, working together. His answer was that yes, we would work as a team. After my account was lighten of 1200$ the story was different. There was always an operation, and office urgency EVERY DAY. The only way to get any advice was to spend another 60$ to get an appointment.


    Cat was not getting better, I was not getting any help, had been stolen by a malicious vet, this was it for this clinic. So I switched to a new vet with good comments from an employee at my pet store. Went there last week (to the new vet clinic), my impression was good and it seemed they were available and proposing solution on a per required basis. I had taken with me blood test results I had paid 200$ for, my meter, syringe, picture of my insulin capsule and glucose chart (I had done). The first thing the new Vet noticed, is that the urinary infection was still on, second the cat was very dehydrated, third there was infection due to scale accumulation in the back of his mouth. He fixed this up for free but said there would be more ''heavy'' need in this regards requiring anesthesia. I went back home with antibiotic to give twice a day, a 1 Oz syringe, instructions to give him 5 doses of water with it every day and see how it goes.


    I had great hope this was to be a new start but it was not to be. The cat just stopped eating again this
    week.

    The same food he was furiously eating last week (Purina MD) is just perishing aside now. I put haft a can at the morning to arrive home and realize that it's still there. I start to think I should go with a final injection.

    Instead of reading about photography, experimenting with my different lenses I'm all immerse in what seems to be a down spin spiral. I have the spirit of a soldier, ready to meet any challenge but this one is just bad on my moral, finance and social life. I've always been someone who had to work very hard to get what he wants, but eventually I reach my goals. This one, save my little cat, seems to be something I've no control over and is becoming sad. ''Having a diabetic cat is something fun'', the vet told me the first day, in early March. If this is what having fun is I can't imagine what sadness is.


    Sorry for dumping all this on your blog, just need some help and advice I guess. I can help others also, I have a master degree in glucose meter :), I've tried 3 to find the most accurate and affordable solution, one I had to develop because nothing worked with information hard to find on the Intetnet.


    Sébastien

    *thanks for your comprehension on possible mistake in my English, French is my native but I'm sure it can be understood.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
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  2. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Please go ahead and post in the "Health" forum since that's where we start giving the most advice. Just put the link to this Introduction into your first post

    It's actually not at all necessary to feed the expensive MD....if you look at the ingredient list, the ingredients are really no better than Friskies, Fancy Feast or Special Kitty!! The important part is that it's low carb and the pates are just the thing. Avoid the foods "with gravy" or "with sauce".

    It takes a long time to get a cat transitioned to a raw diet, so keep at it. It's got a totally different texture than what they've eaten all their lives so it can be a tough fight. You might try mixing a little bit of raw in with a pate type food and see if you can gradually add more to it, but go slowly!!

    It's totally possible to treat this disease, and the people here can help you learn everything you need to know. For now, I just want to leave you with a couple of pictures of how far back our kitties can come.
    China before diagnosis.jpg China at diagnosis...less than 8lbs (3.6kg)....Click on picture to enlarge

    China after 4 months insulin therapy_zpsf9fd87af.jpg China after 4 months of Lantus insulin and the help from the great people here at the FDMB
     
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  3. DebG

    DebG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Welcome! This is the right forum to be at.
    I am fairly new to fd with my kitty Fritz.
    I feed him the exact recipe of Lisa's.
    You might want to try crushing up True Bites freeze dried chicken breasts. Also a good probitic, it helps to mix in the food that your kitty is use to. Fritz loved raw food right from the start. If your kitty likes fish cat man do bonito flakes sprinkled on the raw food helps.
    Please keep asking questions the members are so helpful and really care about you and your kitty.
    Might I suggest you start a SS it helps the experienced members guide you with dosing and getting kitty regulated.
    I give my Fritz Fancy Feast classic foof to make sure he gets a tad bit if carbs. I don't know if your kitty would eat them but a lot of kitties on this forum are fed just that. The food is not expensive. Hopefully more experienced members will be along shortly to help you!
     
  4. Spunky's Mama

    Spunky's Mama New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    The vet bills SUCK but the fur babies are worth it! Unfortunately it is an ongoing cost but on the upside, it sounds like strips are cheaper in Quebec then Ontario! - I pay $90 for 100 and it really sucks when I don't draw enough blood and have to use another one! Haha - it gets easier and quicker though.

    While Spunky has just recently gone into remission, other battles are now coming up. Despite her battles, she is looking great. Back in November, she was hardly able to walk as her she had neuropathy in her hind legs. She stopped jumping and would sleep pretty much cuddled to her water bowl. I couldn't believe how much she was drinking!

    Just 5mth later and she is no longer needing insulin and she is able to walk, jump and run again. She is acting kitten like which I haven't seen in some time. I still keep her on a strict feeding regime and I check her sugars weekly to ensure all is well (except when something is out of the ordinary - if so I will do a spot check and monitor as necessary).

    Don't give up! It really can get better!

    I didn't see any mention of insulin. Has the vet prescribed insulin? For a diabetic kitty, I am not sure BG will come down with just a change in food alone. Insulin is not being produced which is why it needs to be supplied.

    Best of luck!

    P.S - I joined this group last night when my girl was in a crisis and the amount of support I received in a short period of time gave me the strength I needed to get through it. Awesome members here who know what the journey is like!

    Christine
     
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  5. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks for your reply, I'll go on and win this fight. BTW, it's getting better, the little beast has eaten a little bit after I followed advice found on previous post. I went to the one dollars store and bought a bottle looking like what you see in cheap restaurant for ketchup and mustard. I took one, put two spoon of food at the bottom, added some water on top and squeezed the blade of my mini handheld electric mixer and made a nice pure. It was like I had become a mother feeding her kid... Something you don't want you bar buddies to see you doing :( :).

    Anyhow, it seems it helped has the BG went down by 4 17.5 compared to 22 the day before. (315 compared to 396).

    I took the day off tomorrow to meet the new vet. I asked the money thief (the vet who diagnosed Small Kitty) to send all they had to his email. Maybe a full scale blood porfile is required ??? That will test his honesty.

    Let's see how it goes, I'll keep you posted with a SS profile, with good news I hope.

    Sébastien
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  6. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks Christine, that is something nice to ear, that you kitty is insulin free after just 5 months !

    Mine is on Lantus, 1 unit at the morning and another one 12h. after. I do blood testing every day but had stopped for a few days so desperate I was. Was feeling this just demoralizing me not to see any change no matter what.

    I'll share my tricks once it's getting better. Thanks again.
     
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  7. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Its rough starting on this road, but our kitties are so worth it, sounds like both your kitties are in good hands with you around to watch out for them, you seem willing to do anything for them :) . I too am just really starting on this, and I wish i had advice to give you, all I can say is I hope meeting the new vet goes well tomorow, and sending purrs and prayers for your sweet small kitty :cat:
     
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  8. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
  9. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Hi again Sébastien!!

    Something that's very important to understand.....Lantus dosing is based on how LOW it takes them, so it's important to test before each shot to make sure they're high enough to get insulin at all, and then test again sometime mid-cycle on the AM cycle (like 5 to 7 hours after the morning shot) and at least a "before bed" test at night. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to know they're safe before you go to sleep for the night.

    Next, we need you to set up our spreadsheet to keep track of the results you get. Since you're in Canada, you'd want to use the "World" spreadsheet since it will convert the numbers automatically for those of us that live in the US and are used to seeing those numbers instead. Here are Instructions on Setting up the FDMB spreadsheet. If you have trouble, let us know! We can set it up for you!

    To help understand the entries on the spreadsheet, read this "Understanding the Spreadsheet" thread

    I hope you'll go ahead and post over in the Health Forum.....this Introduction Forum is just for general "Hello's" and reassurances that you can do this!!! You're part of a worldwide community of feline diabetic caretakers now who have years of experience on how to best treat your "extra sweet" cat!
     
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  10. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016

    HI Deb,


    Is ''True Bites freeze dried chicken breasts'' diabetic safe ? I guess if you made mention of it here but I want to make sure.
    Small kitty was back on track but I'm not out of trouble. Ketoacidosis is over with negative test following 72h intensive monitoring / care
    but now he's back to starvation mode... He's been eating during the week-end and without any warning he has stopped and I'm not
    even sure he's drinking (can't watch him). He's asking for food at the morning, lick a little then go. Big Brother is then eating everything
    left.

    Hope the starvation episode are gonna stop.

    Thanks

    Sébastien
     
  11. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Pure Bites freeze dried chicken, which I used for my cats, are safe.
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Sébastian,

    That's a symptom of nausea. Ask your vet about a prescription for ondansetron (generic is cheaper than the branded Zofran). Make sure that you get tablets, not the 'melts' because the latter are not suitable for cats (artificial sweeteners and impossible to dose). Also ask about a prescription for an appetite stimulant (e.g. cyproheptadine).

    You can learn more about nausea symptoms and treatments at this link:

    Nausea and Appetite Page from Tanya's Site

    (Note: if the link doesn't work first time, try again later; sometimes the site goes offline.)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
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  13. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    I think you're right, he's eating now, a little with some incentive (putting PureBites dust on the food).
    But after eating he's not vomiting but is sounds like he's trying to throwing something out. I would like
    so much to see him eat like Big Brother. He's making a party out of his brother's portion. At least he's
    eating a bit. Plus, I've left the barricade off so they could run outside. It seems to help, he's back home
    from a night of doing exercising (I guess), because he eats a bit and go to sleep.

    I'll try what Chris&China told me yesterday, that ''cheap'' food are as good as my 2$ a can Purina MD.
    Fancy Feast Pate for example. Maybe some diversity could help.

    (the link didn't work, I'll try it later, can't wait to see what is there).

    Thanks again

    *btw numbers are slowly going down, 17.8 before meal, 18.4 this morning hope this is going to
    remain our cruse speed for a little now that ketone is gone.
     
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  14. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    You should get a nasuea med just in case like critter mom posted to you.
     
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  15. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Good Idea, I'll talk to him about that. I plan on going to his office next week-end for some blood tests that
    I will take back with me as well as the previous one, just to complete my spread sheet. Hope he's never
    gonna see me again after that (in regards of diabetes at least). You guys are way cheaper :)
     
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  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    For cats prone to eating difficulties - or prone to ketones - it is invaluable to keep a supply anti-nausea and appetite stimulation meds at home. That way, as soon as one sees a hint of symptoms returning, one can help the cat over wobbly periods quickly thus nipping the issue in the bud instead of it turning into a major (even potentially life-threatening) problem; very much a case of a stitch in time saving nine. And lots better for the kitty: it is far easier to give a cat's appetite a gentle nudge than to try to reboot it after a period of acute inappetence! :)


    Mogs
    .
     
  17. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks Mogs

    Can these meds be found at drugstore without prescription (like insulin). Vets I've been dealing with seems to see me as ''tit joe connaissant'' (smart alec).
    Last time I called his assistant he told me this was useless even if I was telling him he wasn't eating and bypassing the assistant is not possible unless
    I get a 65$ consultation. Small Kitty is eating a bit but most of the food I put is eaten by Big Brother and my apartment has no closed room...

    This file has been a biggest concern for a while (small kitty not eating enough).

    Sébastien
     
  18. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    What part of canada are you located in? I have a friend in canada that might be able to help you.
     
  19. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Down in Québec, Montreal. Maybe the best place to be nailed by Vets :) (need to try not to generalize but it's hard)
     
  20. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    How far is toronto from there?
     
  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    They're prescription-only in the UK; I haven't a clue about Canada.

    @MrWorfMen's Mom, @Tuxedo Mom -

    Linda, Mary Ann -

    Do you know whether cyproheptadine (Periactin) and generic ondansetron are Rx-only in Canada?


    Mogs
    .
     
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I've never used either but I checked the listing from Health Canada and Ondansetron does need a Rx here. The cyproheptadine doesn't show up on the Rx drug listing (unless I missed it) so it may be available OTC.
     
  23. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
  24. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    You're completely right Mog, force feeding is no fun for the cat nor for the ''care taker''. Seing you cat melt down like ice is just contrary to nature.
     
  25. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Scoobydoox, Montreal is an 8h bus ride from Toronto, 6h. by car.
     
  26. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    ok its to far. i will still check and see if my friend knows anyone in your area that can recommend a good vet for you.
     
  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Zofran, the branded version of ondansetron, is hideously expensive. Over here it's about GBP 100.00 for 30 tablets of Zofran. The generic ondansetron is much cheaper: less than GBP 10.00 for 30 tablets.

    Ondansetron is an anti-nausea drug. If a cat is nauseated then the nausea needs to be controlled first. Often once the nausea is resolved the cat will eat better. If the cat still needs a little more help then addition of an appetite stimulant in addition to the anti-nausea med may help the cat regain its appetite. Administration of an appetite stimulant to a nauseated cat can lead to the cat developing food aversions, and that needs to be very much avoided.


    Mogs
    .
     
  28. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    @Photorecon
    Ok my friend told me this is the cheapest place to go to in that area

    hopital vetrinaire taschereau
    ask for Dre Roch apparently knows about diabetes with cats
    its a vet clinic first come first serve go there in the morning if you can
    (450)-465-6511/6512
    http://www.hopitalveterinairetaschereau.com/fr
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  29. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks Scoobydoox, I'll go straight there ASAP. It will have to wait to Saturday cause I work
    tomorrow and can't call sick again for Small Kitty. It's a lovely little cat but will not risk loosing my job
    for it..

    I REALLY need someone who knows about this and tell me the true, what's the real state of my cat.
    Just starting to think I'm being bull s.. on what's really going on in order to bring the number of visits has
    high as possible to get more cash. There's now new symptoms that I've posted on a new thread :

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...high-gl-vomitting-liquid.157339/#post-1671395

    Think the little beast is in pain.
     
  30. scoobydoox

    scoobydoox Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Call them and find out what time they open and get there when they open sat morning. thats a really busy place
    Take all current paperwork you have for the cat with you
     
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  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Some vets may not be familiar with ondansetron for nausea or cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation. Here's a useful document about treatments for pancreatitis. Even if Small Kitty proves not to have pancreatitis, he is still showing signs of nausea and he's vomiting. The document below is authored by IDEXX and it contains recommendations for treatments for nausea and poor appetite. Given that it comes from such a prestigious source if you print a copy, familiarise yourself with it, then bring it with you to the next vet consult for review and discussion it may go a good way towards helping you to get the vet to prescribe the right supportive meds to help Small Kitty with his current eating difficulties:

    IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

    It would also be worth asking about a course of B12 injections; they help with pancreatitis but they can also help when eating is a problem for other reasons. If Small Kitty tends to sit crouched in a tense, 'meatloaf' crouch or if he's hiding that could indicate that he is experiencing pain. Buprenorphine can help with that. Both treatments are included in the IDEXX guidelines.


    Mogs
    .
     

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