1. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Hi everyone. My cat has not yet been diagnosed but I’m pretty sure it’s going in that direction. He was sick (on steroids which they said probably caused him to develop diabetes) then had a uti so on meds for that right now. Today I got his urine checked ( totally gathered his pee and took it in) and they said they noticed something in it (forget what they said) and that usually means elevated glucose. They said the steroids he was on probably brought it out cause he may have been borderline diabetic. They want me to test his glucose.. eeek! I am actually type 1 diabetic so I have all the supplies I would need. I’m super nervous to check. I did use a pee stick and the glucose part changed colour so his sugar was definitely higher than normal. The vet told me he should be on a low carb diet. Any recommendations?!
     
    Matt & Maus likes this.
  2. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Was it ketones?

    Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies pates because they're under 10% carbs and affordable. Any low carb (under 10%) food is fine though. Here's a Food Chart with a lot of common canned foods with their nutritional breakdown.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  3. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I'm a newbie myself. My Billy was diagnosed about 11 days ago. If you go to the health links section of the forum, there is so much good information there! I can't believe how much I've learned in so short a time. Scroll down until you see the thread, "Feline Diabetes FAQ- Newcomers, start here!" It will get you well on your way. There's also good information on how to test, etc. And how to stock an emergency Hypo kit, which is super important.

    I also had a diabetes test kit already, and I have to say that it eased my mind. Yes, it took some practice and a very patient and treat wanting kitty, but it's totally doable.

    And Chris and China have already given you the link to the food chart. The Fancy Feast pates have been great for my Billy, but do look at the chart, because not all FF varieties are low carb. There's also good information in the health links for how to switch a cat to wet food if they are used to dry.

    Hang in there! One thing I have learned is that even if your cat has diabetes, it's totally something you can help him with.
     
    Matt & Maus and Nicole & Diesel like this.
  4. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    It was not ketones cause being diabetic I know that word. I thought she said something about red blood cells?
     
  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi. What is your name? What is your cat's name? My name is Deb and the cat in the picture was my diabetic cat Wink.

    Do you live in the USA? We have different food information for various countries, so want to point you to the best info.

    Sounds like it's time to call the vet office back and ask them to tell you again what they were talking about. See if you can get a copy of the vet records, so you can have them to refer back to. They can often email them to you, test results too. Take written notes as they are explaining things. Have them slow down if they are going too fast with explanations.

    I remember when I had a serious illness, I brought a friend along and she took notes for me. I was just too stunned to really hear everything the doctor was saying. It was nice to compare notes, because she had written things down that I totally missed.

    Call the vet back. Take notes.

    Would you like a link to a document that has testing tips and tricks? Here it is. Just click on the blue text to open the document.

    Use separate lancets for your cat of course. You can use the same meter you have to test your cat, but you might want to get your cat their own meter so you don't confuse the test results. "Now was that BG reading for the cat, or was that me?"

    Steroid induced diabetes can often be reversed with a low carb canned food, an appropriate insulin for cats (like Prozinc, Lantus or Levimir), and home testing.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  6. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Hi, I’m Nicole and my cat is Diesel :)

    I am going to call them back, we are just in the middle of a snow storm so they’re closed. I am in Canada!!

    Lantus would be great if that would work because that’s what I take and I’d just share ahahahha. My meter has an option to write notes so if I took his blood I could post a note saying cat or something like that.
     
  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    So would you please do something for us? Would you update your profile and put some info in your signature like your name, your cat's name and age, date of diagnosis, meter you are using, insulin you are using (when you get to giving him some that is), type of food being fed (dry and what type or wet and what type), any additional medical conditions your cat has. That information then appears at the end of your posts. See my posts for an example. General location, like country is helpful, at least in your profile if not your signature.

    That way I know the Canada food chart is the one to refer you to. It's not ALL the canned cat foods that are available, and not all of these are <10% carbs which really can help a kitty with their BG (blood glucose) levels. But one of our members put together this short list. Fancy Feast, the classic pates or the newer Naturals line (not the ones in gravy) can also be good for a diabetic cat. Friskies pate style (not the ones with cheese and other add-ins) are low carb and low cost too if you have those available.

    Lantus is a good insulin for cats and you can certainly share your insulin with Diesel. All of us folks in the USA envy the low cost and the fact you can go pick up lantus without a prescription. Sky high prices here in the USA.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  8. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I will update for sure :) Thanks so much.

    We do have the fancy feast and the Friskies. I just went out and got him some. I use to feed Iams dry and wet but he hasn’t been eating them anymore really. I just tried the Fancy Feast and he devoured it so that’s a plus.

    Costs for supplies here are expensive too if not covered by a medical plan so I guess being diabetic myself has some perks now.
     
  9. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020


    checked his blood and it was 18.8 :(

    I called the vet and they told me to give him one unit of lantus every 12 hours. They also recommended giving him the Purina diabetic Management food they have.. she said it was one of the lower cost ones.

    my poor kitty. I just got through blood testing how am I going to give him a needle :(
     
  10. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Waving to you from Ontario.

    The dry Purina DM is too high in carbs. The wet Purina DM pate is low carb but there is nothing special about it except the price. If your vet insists, buy one or two cans to try then tell your vet that Diesel won't eat it.

    Giving needles is easier than testing. You've got this.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    18.8 x 18 gets us 338 or thereabouts in BG readings that are more familiar to us backwards US folks. Not bad, could be better. Let's see if we can get Diesel better.

    The Purina DM canned food is an ok option. The dry version of DM is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat, per the AAHA Diabetes Guidelines and the ISFM Consensus on Managing Diabetes in Cats, which both say <12%. As you noted already, the cost of the DM is high and there are other options.

    Hopefully, Diesel will eat the canned DM and keep eating it. Some cats do better on it, some not so much. The most frequent comment on the DM canned food that I see is that their cat gets tired of the flavor and stops eating it. So some other low carb, 40% or higher protein options are most of the Fancy Feast (FF) classic pate style or the FF Naturals (not the ones in gravy). The Friskies pates are also under the 10% carbs recommended here. @Red & Rover (GA) are in Canada, so they may have other food ideas for you.

    You have lantus insulin already. Did your vet say what the starting dose should be? Most cats don't need to start with more than 1 unit. Since you are also doing a food change, you may want to keep the dose even lower, say 0.5U and increase in small increments (0.25U) with time. Cats don't always tell you when their blood sugar is getting low.

    Lantus comes with a 28 day expiration, because that is all the manufacturer tested for. Lots of members use the lantus vial past that time, several months or more. Proper storage in fridge where the vial isn't getting jiggled constantly helps, so not in the fridge door that you open 20 times a day. Or if you use the cartridge pens, you can use an insulin syringe to withdraw the insulin instead of a pen needle.
     
  12. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Snowstorm – that would have been the maritimes or the prairies. It helps us to help you if you can put your time zone in your signature. There are members from all over the world here.

    If you are looking for half unit syringes. The BD purple and yellow box are the easiest to find, though you may have to ask your pharmacist to look in the back. Some pharmacies claim they do not carry half unit syringes. Ask them to check their stock. Other brands of half unit syringes have to be ordered online.
    You are likely used to drawing up larger doses. With small doses, a pair of magnifying glasses from the dollar store helps.
    BD_320440__64513.1520533063.jpg
    Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates are readily available. Pet stores generally carry Wellness Core, Merrick, Tiki Cat, Weruva, Ziwi – some affordable, some quite pricey.
    The Canadian food chart has not been checked recently and may be out-of-date. It will give you an idea, anyway.

    It is good to buy a couple of cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers and stash them in the back of the cupboard for low number events (you will want to feed the gravy).

    Some FYIs:
    You will see "karo" mentioned on the threads a lot. In Canada, it is corn syrup.
    And yes, if cared for properly in the fridge, Lantus will last a long time.
    To get US numbers, multiply x 18. Some of us are used to dealing with both sets of numbers but most are not. Once you get a spreadsheet up and running, the spreadsheet will convert it for you. If you have problems setting up a spreadsheet, just holler. There are people here who can set it up quickly.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
  14. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I was wondering how to get around not buying it. Good idea haha Thanks!
     
  15. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    yes! Nova Scotia.. good ol snow day!

    I use to use these needles for myself. Now I use the same brand but a blue box.
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  16. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020


    They told me one unit Of Lantus every 12 hours and to make sure that he eats before or after I give it.
     
  17. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You'll find those 1/2 Unit markings with the 3/10 cc syringes nice to have for adjusting in 0.25 and 0.5 U increments.

    Lantus insulin has a depot effect in cats. Takes several days to build up. With a food change at the same time, those BG numbers may drop like a rock.

    Got your hypo toolkit ready?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    How'd you make out with Hurricane Dorian back in Sep 2019? Had a friend headed up that way that ended up staying a few extra days in Maine.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  19. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    If you return the DM, the vet office will refund your money, even if it is an opened bag of dry. Some arrangement with the manufacturers, I believe.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  20. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    it wasn’t fun. Power was out for a while and we lost quite a bit of food :/
     
  21. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I don’t have corn syrup right now but I have pancake syrup.. would that work till I can get through this snow?

    I also have some dry and wet Iams left.

    why would the vet get me to give him so much :/ Is there a certain number his blood should be at where I shouldn’t give him his dose of insulin? Like for future reference.
     
  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Any kind of sweet syrup you can rub on your cats gums will work. Something high in sugar, even ice cream would work to bring the BG levels back up quickly. (no Xylitol but that is more an issue for dogs ) Dry food would work too, but takes a bit longer to start digesting and for you to see an effect.

    When you are first starting out giving insulin to your cat, we suggest a No Shoot BG reading of 200 mg/dl (13.8 mmol/L) I think but it may be 250 for a pet meter. Not sure of the current recommendation. As you gather more data, you can shoot much lower. But you need to gather data to see how your cat reacts. ECID Every cat is different.

    You have a snow storm and travel warnings out for Nova Scotia through tomorrow morning, so consider if you want to decrease the starting dose to 0.5U instead of 1U as your vet recommended. How much does Diesel weigh?

    Tests for the first 3 days of Lantus insulin are recommended. Always test at pre-shot, so you know the BG's are high enough to give insulin. Tests at +3, +6, +9 will give some sort of idea of the onset, peak (nadir), and duration. You would not give yourself insulin if your BG was too low.

    Two dosing methods used here. Document about that is here.

    This group started in the US and a lot of people don't know how to do the conversion from mmol/L to mg/dl and vice versa. Most all the BG info you see here is expressed in mg/dl. Setting up the spreadsheet would help, because there is a World version that has 2 separate tabs. You enter your data in the World version and there are some formulas behind the scenes that copy the data over to the US version so we can understand the BG (blood glucose) readings in more familiar terms. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  23. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    I've never used pancake syrup but I'm sure it will work. Maple syrup or honey might be better.
     
  24. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Nicole, I tend to throw a lot of information at new people. But with the bad weather where you are, your vet being closed so you can't call for assistance, you just starting to give Diesel insulin, and you only starting to home test, and you have begun the insulin so recently, is a lot to take into consideration.

    Don't let me overwhelm you. It's one of my worst faults.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  25. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    No worries. The more information the better :)
     
  26. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    There is another new member here, @Dana & Ninja and she is a school nurse. She says it's so different dealing with diabetes in a cat then it is with humans that can give you verbal feedback to tell her how they feel.

    I've tagged her so maybe later she will chime in on what she needed to know.

    Easier if you keep everything in one thread for now. Change your post title of you have a question.

    This is a marathon, not a sprint. Keep reading, look at other members threads and responses. We try to tailor the information to the insulin being used and what the caregiver is willing and able to do.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  27. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    So I checked his blood again.. it was 15.9 (286.2 if I did that right haha) so it was down from this morning. I did not do what the vet told me to do and give him 1 unit. I gave him 1/2 unit.

    I was so nervous but he didn’t even notice hhaha yay!!! I found a few unused syringes of the purple box shown above that I use to use last year so it was easier to give half but I am usually pretty good at doing half’s because I do it for myself sometimes when I give my insulin.

    Any of you know how long it would take to start working? I’m very nervous to give him more in the morning and leave for work all day.
     
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yup, you did the World to US BG reading conversion correctly. A test at +3 would be good, if you are up that late. That means 3 hours after the insulin shot. When you set up our spreadsheet, that number gets recorded in the +3 cell.

    Test, feed, shoot is the order for lantus insulin. If possible, no food down 2 hours before your pre-shot tests. Can be hard to do if your cat is used to free-feeding. With testing, you are trying to find the nadir (peak) of insulin action. That can be anywhere between +3 and +7. Testing helps you to find when the insulin onsets (starts working to bring down the BG numbers). And then the duration, or how this insulin is lasting in your cat. (You probably know a lot of this from using insulin yourself).

    Insulin depot takes time to build. Good call on only giving the 0.5 U of lantus on your first dose for Diesel.

    Cribbed this from over in the Lantus/Levimir forum.

    Example of an ACTIVE, but NOT necessarily typical Lantus/Basaglar cycle:
    NOTE: Until kitty is pretty well regulated, the description below is NOT not what you'd consider a "typical" Lantus/Basaglar cycle. It takes time and patience for kitty to achieve a "typical" cycle! The example below is what you're working towards (a nice shallow curve). A relatively flat cycle is the ultimate goal.

    +0 - PreShot number.
    +1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
    +2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
    +3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
    +4 - Lower.
    +5 - Lower.
    +6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
    +7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
    +8 - Slight rise.
    +9 - Slight rise.
    +10 - Rising.
    +11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
    +12 - PreShot number.

    More can be found in this post, The Basics: New to the Group? Start here, from the ISG for Lantus/Levimir. It's one of the Sticky posts that are pinned to the top of that forum.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  29. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    So I just checked again and it was 126. Is it normal to have gone that far down? For me lantus is long acting so it acts differently.
     
  30. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    How many hours after shot?
     
  31. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    It is now 1 hour after the 126. Can you take another test? Have you fed recently?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  32. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    You there?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  33. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    2 hours and about 50 mins
     
  34. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I am going to try now
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  35. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    It’s not working. I just tried 3 time’s and my machine keeps saying an error E20. (I’m using contour next one) I then tried my sugar and it worked fine...
     
  36. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    I'm not familiar with the Contour Next but will look up the E20.

    It would be a good idea to feed a low carb meal of Fancy Feast – a couple of teaspoons. When the +2 test is even to or lower than the shot time test (PMPS), that can be an indication of an active cycle.

    PMPS 286 0.5 units Lantus
    +3 (2h50m) 126
     
  37. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    From:https://contournext.esecurecare.net...-displaying-an-e20-code.-what-does-this-mean?
    An "E20" code indicates that there is a testing error.

    Possible reasons for an "E20" code include:
    * An expired test strip was used.
    * Do not bump or shake the meter or the test strip while meter is counting down.
    * Do not test substance other than blood or control solution.
    * Do not test control solution applied to any surface that is not specified in the product labeling.
    * Test strip was stored outside original bottle or the bottle lid is left open for several weeks.
    * Blood was applied over vent hole.
    * Blood was absorbed from tip of strip after applying blood to strip.
    * A previously used, then dried sensor was used.
    * Meter was dropped during testing
    * Control solution was applied to the skin then to the test strip.
    * Partially evaporated control solution was tested.

    So, basically a testing error. Try inserting the strip only partway. Once you have a drop of blood, then fully insert the strip. Sometimes, meters time out if you insert the strip all the way in.
     
  38. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I’ve been using this machine for a little while and it’s only ever done that once. I even just tried another meter (same exact type,brand new) and it didn’t work again. But when I checked myself on it to make sure it was as accurate as my last one it worked.
     
  39. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    PMPS 286 0.5 units Lantus
    +3 (2h50m) 126

    Since you cannot get a test, it is important to feed now.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  40. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    ok will do that now.
     
  41. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Hello and welcome from another Canuck in Ontario. Diesel is one very handsome fella!

    If you are having trouble getting the meter to work, try catching the blood sample on a clean finger nail and test from there. Having a black kitty myself, sometimes it's hard to see exactly where the blood bead is or the blood just spreads out in the fur. Putting a thin skim of Vaseline on the poke site prior to testing can help make the blood bead a little better. Also testing on the inside rather than the outside of the pinnae usually helps.

    Glad you reduced to 0.5u. Looks like Diesel is getting good benefit from the insulin even though the depot isn't stabilized yet.

    You've been given lots of great info so far so I'm not going to overwhelm you further. Just keep asking questions. We're full of tips and tricks to make this as easy as possible. You're off to a great start. :D
     
  43. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I just tried another 3 times. I even opened a new bottle of strips. Something isn’t right. It’s so weird.

    He won’t eat his food (which is not abnormal at this time) but I did make him eat a little bit after I tested. I’m going to set alarms on my phone to keep an eye on him.
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  44. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020

    Hi!

    I don’t feel like I am doing anything different since the first three times I checked it. I tried about 5-6 times (his poor ears). I have also been testing on the inside the while time. Seemed easier.
     
  45. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Some people have better success with testing the paw pad.

    Nicole – I cannot stay up much longer. I have asked a few very experienced people to keep an eye on you and Diesel tonight.

    If you run into trouble, you can post a 911. Go up to the top of the thread. In the top right hand corner, you will see "edit thread." Click on it. Change the title of your thread to something like "Low numbers, need help." Staying in the "edit thread," to the left of the part where you type the thread title, there is a box. Click on the box. It will open and you can click on the 911 symbol.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  46. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Hi, @Red & Rover (GA) recruited me.

    You have the advantage of being diabetic yourself! I know one other member who is a diabetic and was able to get her cat all the way to remission. @Tina Marie and Jan did so. You could probably look through her old threads and her cat's spreadsheet in your down time.

    I understand that humans only need Lantus once a day but cats metabolize it faster so they need it twice.

    I'd keep trying to get a test if you think Diesel will take it. You're probably way off schedule now and skipping tonight's schedule might be in your best interest. Although, I'll let others weigh in before making this decision. If you do shoot tonight, you'll have to work your way back to a more practical 12/12 schedule.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  47. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Oops! I'm sorry. I misread and I see that you shot already. Please disregard the last comment.

    But I do think it's important to continue attempting to test if you can.

    If you can't, I might suggest giving a higher carb food to keep Diesel safe.
     
  48. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Hi, I already gave him his lantus tonight (first one ever) at 7... so 5 hours ago. He seems absolutely fine and is sleeping next to me purring so I am going to keep an eye on him.
     
  49. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Thank you!
     
  50. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Nicole, are you able to set up a spreadsheet?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  51. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I am wondering, could there ever be something wrong with a cats blood that it wouldn’t test? A few months back the dr said he had a really low red blood cell count and he was put on steroids to help and he’s been off them since Christmas.
     
  52. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    possibly tomorrow after work. Not sure how though :(
     
  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I doubt that the RBC is the problem. Cat blood is totally different than humans in regards to where they carry the glucose. Did you manage to get a large enough blood sample? Not sure but you need 0.6ul which is twice the size of the smallest sample required by some meters. You may want to invest in another meter for Diesel that requires a smaller blood sample like the Freestyle Lite.
    Also make sure his ears are warm when testing. Some folks make little socks with rice that can be warmed in the microwave and some just rub ears before testing. As you test more Diesel will grow more capillaries and it will be easier to get a good blood sample.
    You might also be using lancets that are 30 or higher gauge. Generally at least when starting out, lancets gauge 26 to 28 work better.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  54. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    I don't personally know but i've put out your question to a few members here for their input. Others might come along and answer this question too. And I see that @MrWorfMen's Mom has answered as well.

    If you're having issues, you can PM @Marje and Gracie. She'll help you get set up.

    The instructions on how to set it up is here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
  55. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I tested about 5-6 times and I can’t see that at least one of those time’s there wasn’t enough. I thought some were large enough. My meter usually tells me if I haven’t put enough blood. It would be a different code.
     
  56. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    It would be a really good idea to try to get another test any time now. Lantus can reach peak action in our kitties any time between about +4 and +7 but some cats hit nadir earlier or later so it would be good to know what BG is before you turn in for the night.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  57. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    It won’t work. Every time I test the code is saying E20. I tried both ears, poking double, wiping his ear, switching machines, opening a new container of strips :(
     
  58. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Not sure what the problem could be other than sample size and with the difference in cat vs. human blood perhaps that could alter the error message. I know others have used that meter for their kitties.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  59. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    the first time I tried to take his blood I didn’t have enough and the meter told me. The next 3 times I got a reading. It’s super weird. I don’t feel like I am doing anything different.
     
  60. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Do you have another vial of strips? Perhaps there are some wonky strips in your current vial and you just happened upon them for Diesel. Worth a try.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  61. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    opened a brand new box and also tried a brand new machine.
     
  62. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    can you try a different blood source ...maybe a paw pad ? the only thing I could think of was trying somewhere with no hair/fur:confused:
    Is there a reset for the glucometer? I got a replacement for my alphatrak and had to remove the battery when I was setting it up because it wouldn't leave the number screen/turn off right after I first used it...like it was stuck ?
     
  63. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    That's definitely a conundrum when the meters are working for you. I really think it has to be the sample size even if you aren't getting the same error code. If you try again, try poking twice immediately beside each other to get a good bead of blood. Catch it on a fingernail and test from there.

    Infections often cause elevated BG and with Diesel being close to finishing the antibiotics, it's likely his BG is also coming down so it would be really helpful to know what his BG is tonight.
     
  64. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Have you been able to get any more blood tests?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  65. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Hi, just tried again but used a bit of Vaseline this time. It worked but I don’t feel like there was any more blood on the strip compared to last night when I tried. Who knows?

    his blood is 6.2 (111.6). That’s definitely way too low for a needle I’d say.
     
  66. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Where about in the cycle are you?
    Are you in the middle of the cycle or are you at the end of the cycle and ready to give insulin if the BG is high enough.
     
  67. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    He got his first shot at 7pm last night. He is suppose to get his next one in 10 minutes(7am). The problem is also that I am gone to work all day until 330pm
     
  68. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    You can stall for 20 mins then test again ( don't feed yet) if you have time.
    But if you are going to be gone all day and he is only at 6.2 it might be wise to skip the shot. I note there was no mention of ketones.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  69. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    no, he never had ketones since I have realized he might be diabetic. I have been checking with strips. I think I am going to skip the shot and then retest as soon as I get home. I don’t feel comfortable leaving him here all day on his own.
     
  70. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    What have you decided to do?

    We cross posted.
    Ok probably wise to skip as it is a long day without you there to test and with a low preshot, it would have to come up quite a bit for you to be able to give the insulin.
    I'm glad you only gave the 0.5 units.
    Post tonight and ask for advice if the preshot is still low.
    Stick to the 0.5 units unless he drops under 50 and you would reduce.
    Feed him his breakfast now.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  71. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Do you leave food out for him during the day?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  72. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Ok thank you so much. I was hesitant to not give the 1 unit because my vet told me to. I am so glad I listened to all of you and gave the 0.5.

    :) :) :)
     
    Bron and Sheba (GA) likes this.
  73. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    normally I would just leave dry food sitting around but he hasn’t been into eating that lately.
     
  74. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Have you thought about setting up a spreadsheet to document the BG numbers. It makes it so much easier for you and for us to see what is going on.
    If you can't do it yourself, either Chris and China or Marje and Gracie can help you with it.
    All you need to do is send them a pm or tag them.
    Here is the link to the SS
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  75. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Can you leave out some canned food?
    Investing on an autofeeder might be a good investment. A lot of us use them for when we are not there.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  76. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Yes I can leave some out. I am going to look at the spreadsheet after work and see if I can figure it out
     
  77. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ask for help if you need it
    Is Deisal a grazer or will he eat all the food you leave out at once?
    Once you start giving insulin in the morning and have to leave for work, you will need to be able to leave some food out so that he can have a couple of snacks during the day (and the night for that matter)
    Well done on getting the test in this morning btw! Just goes to show how important it is to test before every shot, doesn't it?
     
  78. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Oh yes very important. Being diabetic myself, I’ve learned that lesson a few times.

    He’ll eat everything I put out for him in the morning but then he kinda grazes.
     
  79. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    If you are diabetic then you will understand it all well. That is a real plus,!
     
  80. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    So happy to hear you were able to test this morning and good choice skipping this AM on that low pre-shot. Looks like Diesel may have gone lower than the 7 (126 US) you got last night at roughly +3 post shot and the 0.5u may be too much insulin given how low BG was this morning.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  81. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020

    What is normal range for them usually in the mornings?

    I am at work worried that his sugars have spiked :(
     
  82. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    A day too high is better than a day too low. The 6.2 was too low to shoot. As you gather more data and get an idea of how Lantus works for Diesel, the no shoot number comes down.

    Congratulations on getting a test! It will get easier.

    Taking into account last night's 0.5 units and the 126 reading, there is a chance that with the right treatment plan Diesel might just go into remission. The first steps are being able to get tests on a regular basis and finding a dose that will keep him safe.
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    There is no "normal" morning reading. On a human meter we consider 50 to 120 to be normal range BG. Some non-diabetic cats can have BGs as low as the 40s but we use 50 as an action needed number to keep kitty from going too low while on insulin.
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  84. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    So sorry I missed my tag yesterday. It's been crazy in my life the past few days. And yes I find it much more difficult to care for my diabetic cat than my human students. It's not the actual care that I have a problem with, I have no problems checking his sugars and giving the insulin. That's easy, it's the "not knowing what I should do if such and such happens." With humans you can call a doctor right away and get directives, you get a plan of care right away when diagnosed. Tons of training ensues. Me, Ninja was diagnosed, I was given a vial of insulin and syringes and "oh you're a nurse you will have no problems." and we were out the door in 30 minutes. Well then the low hit!! Yikes!!! THANK GOD for this site!!! I didn't know about the different types of insulin for cats, I didn't know that the dose the vet prescribed was way to high for a cat, I didn't know that food needed to be 10% carbs or less, (vet said not to worry about changing his food.) I had no idea I needed to check sugars before I give a shot and then to monitor sugars to see how that insulin is working, I had no idea what to do if he went low... I have learned so much and am still learning!! Ask questions!! No matter how silly ask!! That's what I have learned and have gained so much knowledge. This is a journey and I am so thankful for this site.
     
  85. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Oh my! Just now catching up on the 'pajama party' Nicole & Diesel had last night. Skipping the dose this morning was a good call.

    So glad that you decided to lower the vet suggested starting dose of 1 unit to 0.5 units. Glad you had your hypo kit ready just in case.

    It's close to the weekend, maybe wait for the weekend to restart the insulin? If you are home to monitor that is. No ketones mentioned but please keep testing for that. If Diesel is not eating well, that can make a big difference. I think you need to make sure Diesel eats enough before giving him his insulin.
     
  86. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Just checked his sugar now that I am home and it is 16.8 (302.4). I did not give him his needle last night until 7. Not sure what to do
     
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Wait till your usual shot time and reduce the dose to 0.25u tonight. Part of that higher number now is likely from a bounce from lower numbers last night given the low pre-shot test you took this AM as well as the skipped shot. Not to worry. Diesel will be fine and you'll get him on track again.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  88. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I also left out extra food this am because I was worried as he ate that so maybe he got a little too much?
     
  89. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    The food may also be a factor in that higher BG but try not to hang on one individual BG reading. It is one moment in time and you need to focus on patterns over a longer period which will come as you gather more data. The goal right now is to find the dose that allows you to shoot twice daily and get Diesel's BG down to better levels for the majority of each 24 hour period. Our kitties tolerate higher BG better than humans over the short term. Diesel will be fine at slightly higher numbers but too low can be dangerous so starting off with a low dose and if necessary working up slowly is the safest and most productive way to handle the situation.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  90. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I just went to a different pharmacy and told them I thought I had needles and u won’t be home for a while so they let me buy an individual bag of the purple boxed needles lol Yay!
     
  91. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Ok, Diesel has only had one shot of insulin and went low on the very first small dose of 0.5U (half a unit).

    As MrWorfMen's Mom said, you want to get back to testing and dosing when it will make the most sense with your schedule and life responsibilities. you want to keep to a 12 hour dosing schedule if possible, but that may slip now and then. Life happens. High BG numbers are not good in the long term, but low BG can have more immediate dangers. Under 50 mg/dl (<2.7 mmol) is low with a human meter.

    Things to consider/ideas.
    1. You had difficulties with testing him last night. Do you want to see if the testing gets more reliable with experience before giving insulin?
    2. You are changing to a low carb food at the same time as you are starting him on insulin. You could hold off on the insulin until the food change is complete or further along.
    3. What do you want to have as your regular shot times? What will be better for you with your work schedule?
    4. Do you work this weekend? or do you have some time off to monitor? If so, if no ketones, wait until a couple of days off to re-start the insulin.
    5. Think about when you might be able to test at the +3 to +7 timeframe to see if you can find Diesel's nadir. Before bed? Early in the morning? After you get home from work? Weekends? Depends if you are a night owl or early riser.
    6. Have you been able to contact your vet to review the blood results again?
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  92. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I don't think there is any limit to the number of syringes you can buy without a script in Nova Scotia or anywhere in Canada for that matter. If you needed syringes they could have just sold you the whole box.
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  93. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020

    I did the test fine this morning and this afternoon so I should hopefully be ok with that.

    I am not reeding him any of his old food anymore. He only getting the Fancy Feast. One that I fed last night/ this am I believe had 5-6 carbs. How much of a can should I be giving him for feedings?

    I am up at 6-630am and leave for work at 715 usually. I was going to do 7 and 7 but the checking in the morning +3 won’t work unless it’s a weekend.
    When I called the vet last she couldn’t find his chart because the receptionists were not in because of the storm
     
  94. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    How much to feed him depends on his ideal weight and activity level. The formula for calculating calories is 13.6 X ideal weight in lbs. +70. Diabetics often need more calories to regain lost weight or to maintain their weight so exceeding the formula amount until kitty is regulated is fine but you don't want kitty getting too "fluffy" so you need to watch their weight. Likewise there will be a difference between a couch potato cat vs an energizer bunny kitty in their calorie requirements so the formula really just provides a baseline to work from.

    Each can of FF pate runs between 80 and 95 calories each depending on flavour.
     
  95. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
  96. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Good job getting that set up. Now you can add it to your signature so it's always available when you need assistance/have questions.

    To add it to your signature, copy that link for the SS. Go to your signature and type "Diesel's SS" and highlight it. Then click on the little chain link icon in the tool bar and paste the link you copied there and click on INSERT. Then scroll down and click on "Save Changes".
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  97. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Well done getting the SS set up!
     
  98. Nicole & Diesel

    Nicole & Diesel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Not sure how to add things to it. I did it on my phone so going to hop onto my Mac in a bit when my little one goes to bed for the night.

    ok so wondering about Diesel’s shot tonight. I should give him 0.25? That sounds so hard to measure :/
     
  99. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.
  100. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    As long as pre-shot is high enough(over 150) then yes I would give 0.25u and grab a +2 or +3 BG test to see what Diesel is doing tonight. All you can do is eyeball the 0.25u dose half way between the 0.5u mark and the zero line on the syringe barrel. (See left picture below). You could draw up coloured water in a used syringe to what you perceive to be 0.25u and use that as a comparison. It's much more important to be consistent with dosing than precise. The point is to reduce the dose from the 0.5u to something close to 0.25u.

    syringe markingsPNG.PNG
     
    Nicole & Diesel likes this.

Share This Page