Newbie Needing Advice

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by AngelaMiao, Jan 25, 2019.

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  1. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    Hello! Newbie here looking for advice for my 10yr old cat named Jack. Jack currently lives with his two cat brothers at my parents house so I'm trying to find a way to keep him in his home without overstressing my parents or ending up with a hypoglycemic cat.

    His story started about 5 weeks ago when he started peeing next to the litter box. Last week I noticed that he lost 4 pounds (he used to weigh 21lbs, he now weighs 17lbs) so I took him to the vet and he had a glucose reading of 25 (450) and a urine sugar reading of 56. We haven't started him on insulin yet since his bladder was empty when I took him in so we couldn't do the urinalysis until the next day when his vet wasn't in. He should be calling me today to set up an appointment to make a plan for insulin and diet (will probably go next Wednesday).

    His diet is pretty terrible, my cats mostly eat dry food (free feeding) with a can of Friskies pate shared between the 3 cats in the morning. He never had problems with his weight until I brought home my 3rd cat who begs for food until he sees a full bowl, eats a few bites and then leaves the rest for Jack to binge on his own. My other cat is big too (20 pounds) but he's a ragamuffin so he's much more lean being a bigger cat. My oldest cat is a 8lb Abyssinian/Burmese mix who free feeds perfectly and is much more active (he eats on the counter by himself and prefers soft food and real meat so he's not an issue).

    As soon as I got the diagnosis (this Wednesday), I went out and bought a bunch of cans of Fancy Feast pate (less sugar than their current Friskies pate) and a bag of Purina DM dry to use for treats and give to my youngest cat when he decides to be a jerk (all my cats open doors). I tried transitioning them straight to wet food only using their usual pate on Thursday, took out 1.5 cans (5.5oz cans) split between the 3 of them - 6hrs later maybe 4 bites had been taken from each bowl. Got a bit worried that they weren't eating enough so I gave them each a 30ml scoop of the DM dry food (which they inhaled) and then tried putting out the new Fancy Feast which they actually enjoyed more than the Friskies (but still didn't eat as much as I wanted).

    I'm a bit worried about starting him on insulin, since I only go to my parents once a week and stay overnight (I don't live close enough to go daily), so my dad and brother would be in charge of giving insulin. I'm scared that the might go hypoglycemic while nobody is home since they'd be giving it before work (especially since we're changing him to wet food). Should I maybe wait until he's fully transitioned to wet food before we start the insulin? How big of a difference can a complete change in food make in his blood sugar (he ate REALLY bad before, like way more than the box of food says he should have been eating as a 20lb cat).

    Another thing I'm worried about is that my dad and brother agreed to give the insulin (after much convincing and paying off my brother), but they're not too keen about checking his blood sugar. If we were to start insulin slowly, would it be okay for us to limit his glucose testing to a curve test once a week when I'm over? I'd probably do the first one the day he starts insulin, otherwise I don't think I can convince them to do more than check his sugar if he seems sluggish or before giving a PM dose on a day that he didn't eat or get insulin in the morning. Taking him to live with me isn't a great option since I have a tiny house with a big dog - only room for a litter box is in the baby's play room or in the dog area that he would for sure avoid being a timid cat (and he probably wouldn't eat much for a while, took him 3 years to get close to us and he's still afraid of everyone else so imagine with a dog).

    Really need some advice on what to expect at the beginning as he starts his insulin and how to manage a change in diet at the same time.

    TIA!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  2. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

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    Aug 5, 2016
    Hi and Welcome!!

    Take a big breath because all of this is a lot to take in, es a great thing you are doing for your cat.

    Given the circumstances, I think that starting the change of diet before giving insulin is a good idea and the safest one, probably give a week or so on the new diet(don't wait too long because his numbers are high) and then start insulin during that time your dad and your brother can start practicing and learning how to measure his blood glucose, it is not as terrible as it seems once you get the hang of it, it takes just a couple of minutes, because once you start giving insulin there are two times a day that is absolutely indispensable to test and that is before giving him his shot of insulin to be shure is safe to shoot, you have to convince them that this are really necessary especially if they are going to be out during the day they need to know is ok to give insulin and not just shoot and leave

    The rest of the tests the more you get the better but are not totally indispensable (most of the time ), actually since I work full time there were days where those were the only tests I did, I did tried to test more whenever I could especially on weekends to get more information

    But do try to convince them to monitor for ketones since his numbers are high, that is easy to do with urine strips that you can get at the pharmacy (human ones are ok) here's some information about ketones (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/)

    You do not mention which insulin are you going to give

    Here is a link with a lot of suggestions for transitioning from dry to wet food http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf and I would suggest you change all the cats to the diabetc friendly diet is easier and on the long run all will benefit from the change (that's whay I did and I think is the best thing I could do even the coat of the non diabetic ones got better ) that way you do not have to worry about him getting the wrong food

    You can also consider a time feeder to leave food for him during the day, there are some that will only open for an specific cat if you can afford them they are controlled by a tag or the cat's chip.
     
  3. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    Thanks for your response! I haven't met with the vet yet to make a treatment plan yet so I don't know which insulin we will be using (was going to ask about Lantus since I hear such great things about it).

    I'm hoping that my cat will be easy to test on. He's a couch potato and very cuddly, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we can use this to our advantage and just nip his ear really quickly. I saw some videos where they prick the middle of the ear on the inside, as opposed to the vein that runs near the edge - is this a good way to do it? It looked easier than the other ways of doing it.

    I feel so confused because I read a lot of conflicted info on glucose testing. Some people say they test before each dose and other people say that they only do weekly curves. I'm worried that if the vet says that we don't need to check everyday I won't ever be able to convince my dad to do it (we go to the appointments together).
     
  4. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Yes it is ok to prick on the inside, whether it is better than on the outside depends on the cat, for Babu, and some of the cyvies (non diabetic cats, that I practiced on too when I started) on the inside was not an option because they have a LOT of hair actually I do prick on the edge of the ear but quite frankly is just more o less on the area because I've never been able to see the vein Babu's ears have as I mentioned lots of dark hair.

    Testing before shooting and doing weekly curves are for different purposes is not like they are mutually exclusive, you test before shooting not to determine the dose but to make sure his blood glucose is not low, and therefore is safe to shoot because if for any reason his blood glucose is low at shooting time and on top of it you give more insulin then is when hypos may occur if you ask a human doctor if he would allow a human patient to get insulin without testing first he will tell you NO because is dangerous, why should it be different for cats or dogs.

    And the fact that you will be starting on a low dose (probably around 1 unit) is not guarantee, once you start treatment they can actually hypo on 1 unit

    The curves are done to actually see how his body acts during a whole day and then determine if the insulin he's getting is enough or if he needs more or less insulin.

    I think this are the kind of things you could tell both your dad and the vet if he says you don't have to check every shot, a lot of times the vets do not encourage the owners on testing because they are afraid the owner is going to get scared and bail out of treatment altogether
     
  5. flyingduster

    flyingduster Member

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    Jan 21, 2019
    It is likely your vet will say to not bother testing before every shot; so many of them say that!!! Ask the vet if they’d shoot insulin in to an infant before checking BGL.... I know they’re not a doctor, but they should surely realise that it’s a dangerous idea! Human diabetics MUST check their BGL before doing an insulin shot for the risk of being too low. Cats have an even faster metabolism than humans so they can change faster than a human does! Hopefully you can convince the vet that this is an important thing to be doing. My kitty has been saved twice now in her first week from hypos because I have tested. Just because it’s a low dose and her BGL were very high, doesn’t mean she couldn’t hypo! Twice! Ahhh I’m so grateful for this forum convincing me to test.
     
  6. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    Will definitely push for daily testing or just take the cat and deal with a litter box in my room for a bit.

    I just noticed the cost of glucose test strips in Canada!! I can't find anything below 80$ for 100 strips..I think I'm gonna take a trip to the States tomorrow and buy the ReliOn machine and strips.
     
  7. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    So in the end I will be bringing him to live with me. I called my parents all day to see how the cats were doing with the good and they basically gave them hard food all day because they don't know what to do and have no idea how to transition them.

    Will the stress of moving him to a new home with a large dog increase his blood sugar even more?
     
  8. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Can you put up a kids gate up at your place to keep the dog out of an area for the cat?
    And have the cat with you?
    Can you put the litter box in the bathroom at your place?
    Jack would be best with you if you could sort out the dog/ litter box etc issues.
     
  9. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It could possibly raise the BSL a bit but it would be temporary and not a huge issue as long as he’s eating and getting insulin. The pluses of moving him to you, far outway any minuses. I think you are doing the right thing for sure. Just ease him in slowly and try and keep the dog and Jack separated for a while until Jack is more comfortable with it all.
     
  10. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    I think in the end, I will be taking him in. Will suck for him a bit but I can just take him with me whenever I go to my parents to see my other two cats. Hopefully being with me will be enough to keep him happy - he loves me more than anyone and I have 4 months left of maternity leave to be home and pet him all day. Will also save 200$ a month not having to buy low carb food for 2 more cats and paying my brother's cell phone bill in exchange for him administering insulin for me.

    I'm assuming that I would not be giving insulin if he refuses to eat in the beginning during the transition.
     
  11. AngelaMiao

    AngelaMiao Member

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    Jan 25, 2019
    I ordered a baby gate to put at the top of the stairs to keep the dog away from the bedrooms since I will keep the litter box in the playroom and Jack will probably want to stay in my bedroom. I'm going to need the gate anyway once the baby starts walking.
     
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  12. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It sounds like a good solution and being home for 4 months is a real bonus.

    If you are not starting insulin until next Wednesday, I would start the food transition now before you start the insulin..you don't want to be doing both at once..
    If you can start learning to test the BSLs now also, you will be ready to start the insulin on Wednesday..

    One thing I would do though if insulin is not being started til next Wednesday, is to test for ketones. It is easy...and to do this, you need to buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy...about $10 or $12 and you collect a urine specimen from Jack and dip the strip in and read it exactly 15 seconds later..anything more than a trace needs a vets attention.. ......ketones can develop in diabetic cats that are not on insulin, or who are on insulin and are not getting enough insulin and are sick as well, so it is very worthwhile testing for them to catch them early, as they can lead to ketoacidosis (DKA) which can be very serious and even fatal.
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Do the food switch before starting insulin. Friskies pate is fine.
     
  14. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Here is a link to suitable canned foods..choose ones that are 10% or less carbs..
    Also get a few cans of medium and high carb food around 14% and 22% so that you have them if and when the BSL drops low..also make sure you have honey or Karo at home
    Mark the higher carb foods with a testa with the number of carbs on the can for ease of use later.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Here are some tips for testing urine ketones:
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
     
    Bron and Sheba (GA) likes this.
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