1. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Hi all - my big white baby, Max, was just diagnosed 2 days ago with diabetes. Has just got me all stressed out. He is staying at the vet since so they can get his insulin regulated and see what will help him best. He is 11 years old and a very laid back and sweet baby. I have never had to give a shot before and this will really make me nervous. Looking forward to reading all the posts on here.
     
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome.
    Vet stress can rains BG by 100 (USA) or more points and thus determining insulin does based on measures made at the vet are that good.
    Is Max sick and that is why he is at the vet?
    Good insulin are the human Lantus and Levemir and the pet insulins ProZinc and BCP PZI. For those two human insulin it is best to get the 5 pack of 3 ml disposable pens via a 10 ml vial. Although per ml the vial is less expensive most cats will not use up a 10 ml vial before the insulin goes bad/becomes ineffective. The human insulin N/NPH is sometimes prescribed but only lasts 8-10 hours. Same for the pet insulin Vetsulin/Caninisulin.
    Most of us here test or cats blood glucose at home using a human meter. We test before each shot and periodically between shots. We record our reading and other info in a spreadsheet. See:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
    What are you feeding? A low-carb canned is best. No reason for a prescription food. Here is a list of commercial low-carb cannedhttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/

    Here is a link to home testing blood sugarshttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
     
  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Vet stress can rains BG by 100 (USA) or more points and thus determining insulin does based on measures made at the vet are that good.

    I think Larry meant to say that vet stress can raise BG and determining insulin doses based on measures at the vet are NOT that good.

    Probably the phone and fat fingers?
     
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  4. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Welcome Pam and Max. Yes the diagnosis is stressful and overwhelming, but the treatment is doable. Please ask all the questions you have. There are so many people here who have tons of knowledge on feline diabetes. I have learned so much, and now testing and shots are second nature. Keep reading, because knowledge will help you to help Max!
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Welcome Pamela and Max to FDMB! You have come to the right place for support. There are a lot of caring and experience folks here. You will be given a whole lot of information and at first, it will seem very overwhelming however in a couple of weeks, things will start falling into place.

    Good Reading: This is a must read. It is an excellent 18 page informative document that covers feline health and nutrition. Don't take short cuts and read it all. www.catinfo.org Also read other postings and their spreadsheets. You will learn a lot more from others.

    Home Testing: Here, we all home test. It is mandatory to understand how your kitty is reacting to the insulin and the dose. You will want to test before each shot and some additional test in between the 12 hour cycle. Another reason to home test is to keep your kitty safe. Find a place in your home where you will always perform the test and give lots of hugs before and after testing. There are many videos showing you how to test. Hometesting Links and TipsHere is a picture of where you test on your kitty. http://s106.photobucket.com/user/chupie_2006/media/testingear/sweetspot.jpg.html

    Here is another good link on Home Testing:http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-home-test.htm

    Meters: There are many meters. There is a pet meter called the Alpha Trak2 and human meters. Some use the pet meter because it is what the vets use so the numbers will match up. The meter and strips are expensive though. Most use human meters that can be purchased at any pharmacy. It typically reads a little lower than the pet meter but we have ways of compensating those lower numbers. Many use Walmart's brand, Relion Micro, Relion Prime or Relion Confirm. The Micro and Confirm only needs a tiny drop of blood but the strips are a little more expensive than the Prime. The Relion Prime meter needs a little more blood than Micro and Confirm. They cost around $15 and the strips are around 35 cents each.

    Lancets: These are used to poke the ear to get blood. There are many different sizes (gauges). It is recommended when you are first starting out to use a 26-28 gauge. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up Neosporin WITH pain reliever to apply on the edge of the ears and don't forget to alternate ears.

    Spreadsheets: Our spreadsheet instructions are here. If you look at the signatures of the members here, you will see a link to their kitty’s spreadsheets. We keep track of all our tests. This is basically a place to collect data and help you to determine patterns, doses, etc. It also aids those that may be helping you to better understand your kitty.

    Food: There are many reasons why we are here but one is due to feeding dry cat food which is high in carbs. You will want to consider changing your food to wet, low carb food. It is recommended to feed food that is under 10% carbs. Here is a list of cat food to choose from food chartyou will note that the food with fish are lower in carbs however it is recommended that you only give fish once a week due to its mercury content. Many use Fancy Feast, 9 Lives, Friskies, etc. This list can also be found in www.catinfo.org If you are already giving insulin and you have not transitioned to wet, low carb cat food, be sure to test while you are transitioning. This is because by changing to low carb food, it could decrease your kitty’s number by 100 points or more. One last thing, many of us add water to the wet food so your kitty is getting plenty of water to flush out the toxins and to keep them hydrated.

    Hypo Kit: Always good to be prepared for possible hypo events which means that your cat has reached dangerously low numbers. It can be fatal, hence, the importance of home testing and collecting data in a spreadsheet. In each of the Insulin Forums are stickie’s labeled Hypo Links. Here is one: How to Handle a Hypo. Please print and post on your refrigerator so everyone in your household is aware of hypo symptoms. You will want to create your hypo kit that would include and not limited to; extra testing strips, honey/karo/maple syrup, high carb food, medium carb food, vet information, etc.

    Ketones: Diabetic cats are susceptible to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). It is best to buy testing strips that will measure (if any) ketones in the urine. One brand is Ketostix which can be found at Walmart or any pharmacy. You will want to test periodically unless you continue to get high numbers, then it is suggested to test more frequently. Ketostix typically costs around $10.

    Treats: It is always nice to have treats available for your kitty especially when testing or when they decide not to eat. I like using Pure Bites. I have found it at Petsmart and other pet stores. It is freeze dried and the only ingredient is the meat i.e. chicken, duck, etc. If your cat likes it, then I would go to the dog section where it is cheaper than the cat package. It is bigger chunks but no problem in breaking it up. Another option is to use Bonita Flakes. There is a link here somewhere that has a list of low carb treats but I don't have it right now.

    Injections: Most folks here use one of these main insulins; Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. Two hours prior to your insulin shot, you will not want your kitty to eat. Then you will test and then feed. It is best for your kitty to eat a little before your shoot. I shoot while he is eating. The reason why you do not want your kitty to eat two hours prior to your test is because food elevates BG numbers. So you do not want to dose based on a food influenced number. Here is a link on how to give injections.http://www.felinediabetes.com/injections.htm

    Note: Please check your insulins as there are some (the harsher ones like Humulin, Novolin, Vetsulin, etc.) that would be best to allow some time i.e. 20 minutes, after your kitty has eaten before you shoot.

    If you have any questions, please be sure to post in the Health Forum.
     
  6. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Welcome to the family Pam and Max!!!

    Okay here is the very first thing you need to do to take care of your boy now that you know he is just a little sweeter than you always thought he was...

    BREATHE!!!! Yep that's right take a big deep breath and let it out slowly....Now again...Inhale and exhale. Feel Better?

    Sure it is scary right now, but think of how much worse it could have been, I bet your mind has already come up with all the worse things it could be while you were waiting to find out what was wrong with you buddy, right? Because I sure know mine did while I was waiting to hear back from the vet with my girl Muse. I think I just about jumped for joy when my vet called and told me she was just diabetic, but see I had a leg up on this whole thing...I grew up with a diabetic mom, plus I'm a Nebraska farm girl growing up we did all our own shots for our farm animals. So needles didn't scare me in the least. What scared me was this was my baby and a cat..A horse or cow no biggie I could do that in my sleep. And boy trust me I shook like a leaf on that first shot I had to do on my own.

    Now I'm going to tell you something really crazy....This could very well be the very best thing that could happen to you and your Max. First off because you just landed in the very best place on the web that you never wanted to be to help you, help Max. And because I can tell you without a shadow of doubt in my mind that regardless of how deep a bond you two have right now, it is going to increase 10 fold and it will be like nothing you have ever had with a pet before. And here is why I can tell you that...

    See that pretty Tortie as my avatar? That is not Muse, that isn't even my second diabetic cat, that is Autumn (GA) who was the 3rd diabetic kitty that I adopted as a diabetic, and she just recently passed away at roughly age 20! And she didn't die of diabetes, she passed away from old age and kidney failure from her advanced age and because she had lived a hard life before she joined my family. She had been just someone's barn cat and they left her for over a year without any treatment once they knew she was diabetic. After Muse and before Autumn, I had adopted Maxwell who is right now sleeping on my lap purring his brains out ....and has been completely off insulin for the last 6 years...yep they can and do go into remission, and then Musette who passed away from anemia & cancer, then Casanova who I adopted as a diabetic after adopting Autumn when his human mom died and he's also off insulin and has been diet controlled for a little over 1 year now. And this Sunday I'm picking up Quillan from his transporter who will be adopted diabetic #6!

    Now here is something else...if you look at my signature at the bottom of this post...see all those names (and I need to update as there are others to add) those are my happy and healthy non-diabetic cats..a grand total of 15! Yep you read that right 15. Now if this was a really scary disease to treat I most certainly wouldn't not have done it 6 times, especially with 15 healthy and happy kitties the youngest of which is not even a year old.

    I will not lie to you it is scary, its overwhelming at first and at times downright frustrating, we are going to throw a lot of information at you, but we will always answer any questions you have, we will go over the same things 10,000 times if we have to until you get it. And we will hold your hand and Max's paw until you feel ready to do it all on your own.

    And I will guarantee in a few months you will look back and wonder what the heck you were so scared off. :bighug:

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
  7. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Mel! You are amazing in all the good care you have given to diabetic cats and civvies. I enjoyed reading your post which was one of sheer encouragement to a newbie and to one who has been here for almost 6 months! It's nice to meet you of Pam's post!
     
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  8. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Pam and welcome! There is a lot of good information all ready given to you and I just wanted to say hello to you and Max. See you around the forum. Post again after you know what insulin the vet RX to you and we can direct you to the proper forum to help you.
     
  9. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    He has lost weight and very lethargic the last month or so, also drinking slot of water. Got to researching and took on to the vet. The first initial dose they gave him (human insulin) brought his levels down way too low, he wouldn't eat and they were having to syringe feed him. They did not give him a dose today because it was still in low 200's . I went and got him while ago to ring home for the weekend. They tested him before we left it was 230. He's home now and seems to feel great. Fed him fancy feast chicken classic. He ate good here at home. I hate to take him back Monday. I got some high protein canned food, no gravy. I'm tempted to try to manage with good diet, no dry. I also ordered SuGar Gold drops to give him twice a day, I have been researching and read all their reviews. Any thoughts??
     
  10. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    The vet talked like Monday he would try him on Vetsulin. But this past week for the first time (with human insulin) he started him on 10 units! His readings went way low and have not come back up much, he was at 230 this afternoon
     
  11. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    He is so glad to be home and seems to feel really good right now
     
  12. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Holy cow! That is a lot of insulin. What dose it he having you shoot?
     
  13. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Wow that's a high dose.

    Welcome. You are in the right place for help. Max will be feeling good in no time.
     
  14. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    We suggest starting at one unit and increasing slowly, as your home testing levels indicate. Some general references: we consider a cat regulated if they are in the mid/lower 200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir, but not below 40 which is nearing hypo range. After you get regulation, then you start aiming for lower levels. We suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200, but stall without feeding. You want to make sure the number is rising, not still falling and that you are over 200.
     
  15. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    10 units is a whopping starting dose for a kitty cat unless of course he is a Bengal Tiger! It doesn't surprise me at all he went super low on them. And personally I wouldn't take him back on Monday as diabetes in cats just like in humans is best managed at home with a combination of a species appropriate diet, insulin, home testing and when he starts feeling better exercise.

    I have a little guy okay he's not so little as he is 17lbs at his healthy weight. That I adopted as a diabetic when I got him he was one of the saddest looking diabetic cats I had seen for one that had been on insulin for over a year. His clinical signs frankly suxed. His previous vet had him on 11u twice a day of Levemir, no home testing and eating prescription dry food that was about 46% carbs and that was left down all the time for him, which is more than likely the only reason he was still alive a year later.

    I brought him home, took him completely off insulin for 3 days, in those 3 days I got him eating Friskies pate style canned food, started testing him at home and then after those 3 days put him back on Levemir at a starting dose of 1u twice daily, after 5 days I raised him to .75u then waited another 5 days and kept slowly raising him by .25u until we got to 1.5u within a month of being at 1.5u twice daily he started giving me numbers too low to shoot so I started decreasing his dose, until last September 14th he came completely off insulin altogether and has remained between 65-90 regardless of when I test him so he is now in remission and a diet controlled diabetic cat.

    He also was 37lbs when we started our journey together, had his fur falling out in handfuls, and I would have sworn he was buff colored, and was walking on both his hocks and wrists, today he is a lovely deep pumpkin orange, a lean and muscular 17lbs, and just went flying by me as I type this chasing my two 6 month old kittens. and graceful leapt to top of a 6ft cat tree.

    Home testing is an absolutely your best tool to make sure your boy is safe while he is on insulin, because while vet testing will catch his BGs being too high, it will seldom catch a hypo starting. And a hypo can be fatal very quickly if not caught quick enough to feed them up to safe numbers.

    Now home testing sounds really scary and it can be pretty frustrating at first but once you find your groove it becomes second nature like making your bed in the morning and brushing your teeth. And we can teach you how to do it. So whatcha say....want to learn how to test Max yourself and not have to drag him to the vet's all the time? Not only will it keep him safe it will keep more money in your wallet that can be used for something really useful like canned cat food and catnip. :cat:

    Mel and The Fur Gang

    BTW none of my 3 diabetic cats see their vet for anything other than regular cat care things like shots all their diabetes care I manage at home.
     
  16. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    He didn't tell me to give him any over the weekend because his number was still like 230 and they didn't even give him insulin
     
  17. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Sounds wonderful to me but don't I have to get the insulin from the vet?
     
  18. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    And I'm going to get a meter tomorrow
     
  19. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    No Pamela you do not need to get you insulin from the vet, get the scrip and get it from a human pharmacy. You can do this strange, scary, wondrous thing called the sugar dance I have faith in you, you just need to believe in yourself.
     
  20. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    My vet talked anout trying him on Vetsulin starting Monday, is this a bad insulin? Do I need to "suggest" another type? I don't think they are really up on feline diabetis
     
  21. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    The insulins that are most popular here are Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. They are all mild and long lasting. Vetsulin is usually more difficult to regulate with; it tends to have a harsher onset and doesn't last as long. If you have a choice, I'd suggest one of the first three.
     
  22. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Pamela, Vetsulin isn't a "bad" insulin, but I used it for a few months (called Caninsulin here in Canada) and while some people have great results, it often doesn't last a full 12 hours in a cat. It is also a mix of 2 insulins, one fast acting and one slightly longer, so you can see steep drops in blood sugar, too.

    I'm a little confused that a vet would start any cat on 10 units of any insulin - are you positive it wasn't 1.0? Do you know what type of insulin it was?

    I have had lovely results with Lantus (glargine). It works well in my cat keeping her numbers more even throughout the day.

    That said, the best insulin is the one that works in your cat.
     
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  23. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    A few infobits:
    U-100 insulin has 100 units per mL. Examples are Lantus, Levemir, and BCP PZI at the U-100 level.
    U-40 insulin has 40 units per mL. Examples are ProZinc, BCP PZI at the U-40 level, and Vetsulin/Caninsulin.

    There are specific syringes for each type of insulin. An orange cap indicates a U-100 syringe. A red cap indicates a U-40 syringe.
    Insulin doses are measured in units.
     
  24. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    I've actually worked with 3 different insulins with my cats and a friend's cat. With my own I have used both Lantus and Levemir. My personal preference is Levemir as I have had the best results with it in my own cats. Although that being said my guy that just celebrated 6 years off insulin was on Lantus. My girl was started on Lantus but while her numbers were awesome on Lantus she got to where she was downright mean at shot time because Lantus does sting a little because it has an acidic base, Autumn was just one of those cats that noticed the sting and didn't like it, so I switched her over to Levemir and she became a much nicer and more laid back kitty on it. Now my friend's cat that I helped get into remission was on Vetsulin and what we ended up doing was he would give her both her morning and evening shots and I would run over to his place to give her an additional shot during the day while he was working. So instead of 2 shots a day she was getting 3. So instead of shooting every 12 hours she was getting her shots every 8 hours.

    Another nice thing about Lantus or Levemir is that since it is a human insulin you can shop around for your best price, and should you ever want to travel with Max and need to replace or get more for him any human pharmacy will have it in stock. And yes a lot of us do travel with our kitties. I've even known folks on here that took their sugar cat with them camping.

    But as Brashwork said....The best insulin is the one that your cat responds to best.

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
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  25. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    He said 10 units, I think I am getting more educated on here than my small town vets are on feline diabetes! I am getting a monitor today at wal mart. I am so nervous about sticking his ear! If I happen to stick all the way through will that be awful?? I know my hands will be shaking and the ear is so thin! Do I have to get in between the vein and edge? That is such a narrow place. Or can I get on the inside edge of the vein?
     
  26. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Glad to hear you are going to get a meter! YAY! That is going be your best friend in learning how to dance with a sugarcat. Seriously! Not only does it help you keep Max safe on insulin, and keep money in your wallet it also takes a ton of stress off your shoulders. Once you get it down, if you are ever worried if he is acting weird because he is too low and nearing hypo or just being a goofy kitty, you can test and KNOW within SECONDS!

    Here are some of the things that you are going to want to look for and grab while your out shopping:

    A human meter, if you have a Walmart near you their house brand the Relion has several really nice and inexpensive meters. The Relion Micro, Confirm and Prime, I personally use two of those with my cats I have the Relion Micro that is my main meter and the Prime as my back up meter. My preference is the Micro because it takes a smaller sample of blood than the Prime and this time of year it's really cold first thing in the morning so my cats' ears are cooler and don't want to bleed so I have to warm them longer to get a big enough sample for the Prime. But the strips are much cheaper for the Prime as will. $18 for 100 for the Prime vs $36 for the 100 with the Micro. But basically any human meter will work that the strips fit your budget as that is the most expensive part of this dance.

    Then you'll need strips to fit your meter of choice. I highly suggest getting at least 100 to start with, because while testing isn't hard once you get it down, it can be a bit tricky in the very beginning and takes awhile to get good at it. So when your learning you waste a lot of strips. Nothing amps up the frustration level than being worried about running low on strips and really really wanting to get a reading or needing to, and wasting a precious strip on an error reading.

    Now Lancets those are the little pokey things that you use to poke the edge of Max's ear to get the blood sample. Nope it isn't going to hurt him in the least and no he's not going to hate you for it either. Since you are just learning to test and Max's ears have to learn to be tested you want the smallest gauge number you can fine, usually they are listed as for testing on alternate sites.. If you can find a 28 or 29 gauge those are good gauges to start with. As you get good at testing and Max's ears (learn to bleed) you can start using a smaller gauge. The smaller the number the bigger the hole they make.

    And if your meter doesn't come with one and you want to try using it a lancing device, or you can do it free hand as well. Some people have better luck one way or the other. I, personally, test both way. My Autumn didn't care either way, but Cassanova was an 8 second ride because he was so busy on loving on me, the meter, the wall etc. So with him I just free handed it.

    Not that's it for the actual testing of blood sugar but while you are there you might as well pick up a bottle of ketone test strips too. These you will use to check his urine for ketones. But we'll get into that later.
    Baby steps right?

    Now that you have a meter, test strips to fit it and some lancets here are a few more things you will want to round up.

    TREATS!!! You want any thing that Max dearly loves that is low carb and high protein. Any of your freeze dried pure meat jerky style treats works and I know lots of folks use Pure Bits. Mine weren't impressed with commercial treats, but Autumn would crawl over broken glass for raw and boiled chicken. So I would just boil up plain with no seasonings add chicken breasts and then cut up in bite size pieces keep out enough for a couple of days and freeze the rest for later. This a treat that Max will only get when he gets tested so he will start to learn that little annoying poke to his ear earns him a yummy special treat.

    Then something to back his ear when you poke. Like a makeup sponge, a folded tissue, cotton ball, just something to give you something to poke against and protect your finger as well. Plus help you stop the blood flow after you get your test.

    Other things that help but aren't required:

    Neosporin with or without pain relief ointment (not cream)
    A way to warm up his ear..i.e. rubbing it, a pill bottle with warm water, warm damp washcloth in a baggie, or a rice sock

    After you have rounded up all your supplies, go here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/ there are tons of videos, tips and tricks to help you there. And as always if you need a hand just shout.

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
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  27. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Don't worry about going all the way through...Done it a thousand times with Miss Autumn's and until the day she earned her wings her ears were as beautiful as the day I first met her. About the worse thing that is going to happen is you are going to poke yourself too. lol

    You want to get as close to the edge as possible because that is the area that hurts the least. But if you accidentally hit the vein no biggie just be ready for a LOT of blood and just put a little longer pressure on it to make sure the bleeding stops. Plus putting pressure after you poke anyhow reduces the bruising in the learning phase.

    You and Max will be just fine!

    And here is a tip that is going to sound crazy but it works..Cats talk to cats with their bodies, so they read us like books..If you are relaxed and confident then Max will be relaxed and confident..He loves and trusts you. To take the edge off the nerves...Sing to him, make up something silly, tell him jokes, any thing that is going to make you giggle and feel good about this and think of it as fun. Sort of fake it until you make it.

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
  28. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Pam I can't add much except to say that the breadth and depth of experience here is second to none. I was pretty worried about trying to test Genghis initially, and it was definitely frustrating the first few times but you will get on to it and be a pro in no time.
     
  29. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    I
    I did it y'all!! I pricked his ear, my hands are still shaking! It was 390 and it has been over 4 hours since he had any canned food, keep in mi d he had not had an insulin dose since Thursday at the vet
     
  30. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    WOOHOO Welcome to the Vampire Club! Bet you never thought you would hear that, huh? Or be so proud to be a card carrying member. Yep 390 is a diabetic number and he's definitely going to need insulin. Do you already have everything you are going to need to give him some or do still have to get the insulin from your vet on Monday?

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
  31. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    I will have to wait till Monday, will probably leave him at the vet while I am at work so they can keep an eye on him. I hope they don't start with a big dose like they did the other day
     
  32. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    I hope not as well. You might try asking your vet to start at a much lower does of either Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc Just say you have spoken to a few friends have or have had diabetic cats and they told you they got really good results with those insulins and by starting at 1u and working up from there. But if all else fails once he's home you are the one controlling the syringe and he's your kitty. You might also want to print this out and ask them to read it on what is the latest thoughts on how to manage and treat Feline Diabetes. http://www.felinediabetes.com/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf

    Mel and The Fur Gang
     
  33. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    I see you updated your profile with Max's photo - he's beautiful! Congratulations on your first bloodletting - knew you could do it!
     
  34. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Think I will get to bring Max home this afternoon! Yay! But I am really nervous!!!
     
  35. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Hi Pam - how is Max doing?
     
  36. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    I'm so glad to get him home, he was too. They had been giving him 2.5 units of Vetsulin only once a day. Yesterday when I picked him up about 3:30 they had just checked his number and it was 150, but it goes up overnight. This morning 7:30 it was 472. I fed him and gave him his shot. It's easier giving him the shot than pricking his ear! I've got to set up his spreadsheet
     
  37. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Glad to hear Max is home - no doubt he is glad to be back with you!

    I only have a few months of experience with Vetsulin but that is a very odd dose, and possibly dangerous for Max. I don't like to give dosing advice - @Squalliesmom @Sue and Oliver (GA) would you mind chiming in here to confirm what I am about to say?

    1x a day Vetsulin dosing is what they typically do for dogs, which have a much slower metabolism than cats. This is why he is going up so high at night, and why it's possible he would go dangerously low in the day.

    Even Vetsulin's website recommends 12-hour shots for their product in cats. You can read up on that HERE

    I can help you with the spreadsheet if you want or need it.

    Going forward, Pam, I would strongly recommend giving him a shot twice a day, 12 hours apart, and base the dose on his pre-shot number. But you also need to get an idea of how low he is going at somewhere between +2 and +6 - this is when the fast-acting portion of Vetsulin hits -- you want to make sure he isn't going too low.

    This will help Max's pancreas be at "healing numbers" for longer, instead of a roller coaster ride. Hope that helps!
     
  38. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
  39. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Oh gosh! I will check him around 10 am
     
  40. PAMELA ALLEN

    PAMELA ALLEN Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    I took a pic of this readings they jotted down this week at the vet, you will have to enlarge it to see it. Y'all please advise me before this evening
     

    Attached Files:

  41. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Hi Pam, sorry I don't want to panic you! For sure let me know what his 10 am is - although if you could express it in # of hours since shot (+2 or +3) that helps us with any time zone differences.

    How are you making out with your spreadsheet? You have a good start at some data! Glad the shots are turning up easy for your - hope the testing goes as well. Would be nice to get some mid-cycle readings if you can today. That will help guide what to do in the evening as well.

    You are doing great!
     
  42. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Vetsulin does not last 24 hours in cats. You have already seen this with your testing. He drops low after the shot and then, 12 hours later is high again. If he gets no shot then, he'll continue to rise until the next shot. So he is careening from lows to highs, which not only must feel awful but is not good for his body. The objective is to keep him in healing numbers the majority of the time.

    Here is our Vetsulin info: (Canninsulin and Vetsulin are the same as insulin, just have different names in different parts of the world.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-caninsulin-user-guide.302/

    This is from the Canninsulin website. At the bottom, you can see it is administered twice daily in cats.

    http://www.caninsulin.com/faq-answers-p.asp

    Others may know for sure, but I think Canninsulin can be given once daily in dogs which may be what your vet is thinking. But their metabolism is completely different than cats.

    I agree with splitting the dose in half and giving twice daily.
     
    Brashworks likes this.
  43. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Pamela, I can set up your spreadsheet if you want. Just click on my picture and send me a private message. I need an email address to send it to you and it is wisest to give one out off the forum.
     
    Brashworks likes this.
  44. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Hi Pam. First of all, I want to commend you for the great job you are doing! You're instincts are good and you are headed in the right direction.

    I use Vetsulin for My kitty Squallie, it's the only insulin he's ever been on, and I'm very pleased to say it has worked extremely well for him!

    Brashworks and Sue and Oliver are right about twice-daily dosing. I cannot imagine why your vet would suggest dosing only once a day. I am not trying to bash your vet but I also can't imagine (and am a little horrified by) why he/she would start Max off with 10 units of insulin. Did they tell you why they gave such a high dose?

    To err on the side of caution and make sure Max is safe I would probably follow Chris and China's dosing suggestion, but without more information/BG numbers I am very hesitant to give dosing advice. It will be easier for us to help you once you have a spreadsheet we can refer to.

    If no one has posted it yet for you, here are the links to information regarding hypos:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

    I'm not giving these to you to scare you, I'm posting them because I know you have a very valid concern about Max's BG dropping too low.

    I will try to help you as much as I can, especially regarding Vetsulin as I am apparently one of the few remaining Vetsulin users here with any experience. Feel free to tag me any time. Please try to get your spreadsheet up and running as soon as possible! :)

    Lucy :bighug:
     
    d.eileen.d and Brashworks like this.

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