REQUESTING HELP FIGURING THIS OUT

DevilPup

DevilPup

Member Since 2018
Spike seemed to settle in nicely from mid-October thru mid-November. He was dropped to .75U and was coasting along. Mom was relieved, somewhat. I was hoping for regulation as opposed to remission. Two of his major issues are chronic pancreatitis and chronic allergic rhinitis. BTW, he also takes 2 shots of Flovent for his asthma. (but that's all in signature line) So I'm realistic about no remission and willing to take on the lifelong care for my boy and his diabetes.

Mid November his BG's starting increasing and I noticed he was not feeling well. I figured he was experiencing another pancreatitis flare. We seemed to get him thru that (or maybe we didn't-totally o_O) and he also started displaying problems from his sinus issue. All we can do for that is spray with saline and give him steam box treatments to help loosen up any phlegm. If he could just sneeze it out, he would be in great shape! We also thought we had that under control.

The troubling part is we have raised him from his surfing level of .75U to 2 full units. As for his BGs, it appears we may need to raise him again. His all time high dose was 1.75U. Tomorrow, we will probably raise him to 2.25U.

I don't know what is causing this need to increase above his previous all time high. I even opened a new insulin cartridge, thinking the other "went bad." I put a new battery in the tester. I'm even thinking of trying a brand new pen that I recently purchased.

Questions I have....
**Could it be the insulin gone bad? (bought the cartridges in mid-August. Use one at a time. Always refrigerated.
**Could it be that his pancreas is bad and is failing? beta cells dying off?
**Becoming resistant to the insulin?
**Should he switch insulins?
**What else am I not seeing?
**just still not feeling well?

Some days he heads into the green and it makes me hesitant to increase him, but if I don't he will suffer harm from his glucose being too high. I think what scares me is even though this is not a terribly high dosage of insulin as compared to some of the other kitties, it his high for him and still appears to need to go higher. Mom and Dad are getting nervous.

Can you offer some insight? Thanks so much. Lu and Spike. His chart is up-to-date.
He is going in for abdominal ultra sound on Wednesday. He had one a year ago and nothing was out of the ordinary.
 
I don’t think he’s insulin resistant. For most of us it’s a marathon rather than a dance. I think pancreatitis compounds the issue. Max had chronic pancreatitis for several years before becoming diabetic. When he would have a flare his numbers oftenwould goup. Every time I had him becoming tightly regulated the first year he would bounce and then need more insulin. The medications you need to give may be having an effect on the numbers as well. I’d continue as you are doing if he were mine. I totally understand your frustration and hope he settles into a good dose soon. Which dry food are you feeding? Maybe consider a change. That’s my only suggestion at this point.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I don’t think he’s insulin resistant. For most of us it’s a marathon rather than a dance. I think pancreatitis compounds the issue. Max had chronic pancreatitis for several years before becoming diabetic. When he would have a flare his numbers oftenwould goup. Every time I had him becoming tightly regulated the first year he would bounce and then need more insulin. The medications you need to give may be having an effect on the numbers as well. I’d continue as you are doing if he were mine. I totally understand your frustration and hope he settles into a good dose soon. Which dry food are you feeding? Maybe consider a change. That’s my only suggestion at this point.
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Yes, the Flovent is a steroid. We have no choice in that matter. But luckily, he is only on 110mcg, BID. He gets all his normal meds for pancreatitis. In fact, after about 4 days without giving it, I added it again to his PM regimen tonight.

The wet is all good. LC pates. The dry is Young Again, Dr Elseys, (some) Origen and (very little) Science diet. I have 4 other ones that got to have that dry crunch. But it seems like they shy away from the dry because it is not the "crack" they used to get. Spike lived on dry his whole life. It wasn't until just this year we switched him. So he is really doing well after 13 years on dry. 95% now is wet, LC pate.

I agree the pancreatitis truly messes things up (so does the rhinitis). We continue on. I wonder if the ultrasound on Wednesday will tell us anything. Thanks for replying.:)
 
Did you read the Sticky note by Dr. Pierson about why not to feed any Dry Food? I've been on the forum for 10 months & have seen some cats go into remission just by eliminating all dry food. I know it must be difficult, but Dr pierson gives great reasons for doing it & also suggests how to do it gradually.

https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-health-holistic-treatments-asthma-allergies I came across this article about Asthma in cats & thought it might help. ( it mentions getting them off dry food for Asthma also)

My cat Ravan was raised on a Raw meat diet. I was shocked he got diabetes. Vet said it must be hereditary. Recently he was diagnosed with Pancreatitis & kidney disease. I read these diseases sometimes go along with Diabetes. I try not to take him to the vet unless it's necessary for blood work. He gets so stressed out & it raises his Glucose.

I also try not to give him Pharmaceuticals if at all possible. Right now He only gets CBD Oil for inflammation & if he goes off his food it helps him to eat better. He only gets a few drops every other day. It helps to keep him calmer also. Slippery elm if he gets nauseated.

Pharmaceuticals all have side effects. The vet prescribes another med to counter act the side effects & before you know it kitty is taking a bunch of meds & still not feeling well! I'm concerned that all the meds can cause more harm than good.
I guess I'm one of a few people that just try not to give all the meds the vet prescribes I try something natural first & it usually works. ( I'm 72 yr old & do not take any meds! I hope I'm doing something right! :) )

I just looked at Spikes SS His BG is Great! Those occasional Yellow & pink #'s are totally natural It's just a little bounce. Take a look at my Ravan's SS It's been 10 months & he still bounces really high & for a long time when ever he goes low in green. I even switched to Levemir hoping he wouldn't bounce so much but it doesn't seem to be helping. With Levemir I use about 1/3 less insulin so that's a good thing. Less meds is always good to me. Why is your kitty going for another ultra sound? It's so stressful for them to have all these tests done. here's another really informative video
Best of Luck with your Kitty.:)
 
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In mid October you dropped his dose from 1.25 units to 0.5 units. That sudden a change in the amount of insulin probably taxed his newly healing pancreatic beta cells. The panc attack did not help.

Your signature says "SLGS", but your spreadsheet does not. You jumped from 1 unit to 1.25 units after just six cycles. That dose you only held just 4 cycles, which was too short even for TR, especially since you were seeing blue. 1.5 units was also only held for 4 cycles before increasing. On 11/25, you saw the 60's at 1.75 units and decreased as you should have, but only for one cycle Please slow down your increases. Start Low Go Slow has safety mechanisms built into it, to consider the dry food you are feeding. It's possible you have increased above a good dose.
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
How long have you been using the pen you are on?
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I just opened this pen on 11/20 (when I was trying to figure out what was up). The prior pen was about 1.5 months. But I had purchased the box in August. (unopened and all 5 pens refrigerated. expiration date in 2020)
 
DevilPup said:
I just opened this pen on 11/20 (when I was trying to figure out what was up). The prior pen was about 1.5 months. But I had purchased the box in August. (unopened and all 5 pens refrigerated. expiration date in 2020)
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This is a mystery... how is he doing today?
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
i firmly believe in researching the potential non vet rx, first.
it sounds like he is having a tough time... maybe just trying to get over a speed bump?
please go s.l.o.w.
i am in firm agreement with all @JoyBee&Ravan say...
just MHO :bighug:
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I'm not sure what you mean. "researching the potential non vet rx, first."
Are you saying that you suggest I use natural methods instead of scientific?
What am I speeding thru? I don't see it. By getting another ultrasound? Yes, it will be stressful for him to go to the vet,
but the ultrasound I'm planning to have is not done under anesthesia. This vet does it without, with us helping hold him for the test.
She is very gentle.

As for CBD, I really don't want to use it on my pets just yet. I have not done enough research on it and don't feel
comfortable using it. I have read many stories of natural treatments that are just not proven and just hurt the animal instead of
helping.

I'm sorry. But I really feel I am going slow. Something is wrong with my boy. I can't just sit back and watch him fade away. Can you me
how you feel I'm not? Really, I'm not sure what you mean.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
In mid October you dropped his dose from 1.25 units to 0.5 units. That sudden a change in the amount of insulin probably taxed his newly healing pancreatic beta cells. The panc attack did not help.

Your signature says "SLGS", but your spreadsheet does not. You jumped from 1 unit to 1.25 units after just six cycles. That dose you only held just 4 cycles, which was too short even for TR, especially since you were seeing blue. 1.5 units was also only held for 4 cycles before increasing. On 11/25, you saw the 60's at 1.75 units and decreased as you should have, but only for one cycle Please slow down your increases. Start Low Go Slow has safety mechanisms built into it, to consider the dry food you are feeding. It's possible you have increased above a good dose.
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You do have files attached to this board that indicate once a reduction proves no longer effective, to increase back up to a optimal level as quickly as possible and not to wait the week or so between increases. I chose to take it slower and not increase immediately. You say it's possible I shot past a good dose, it's also possible I didn't. I don't believe I shot past a good dose. He maintained at .75U for several weeks until he had another panc flare. I reacted to the flare as I should have. I believe that was well past the sudden change from 1.25U to .5U. Why have Vet papers in your files if they are not to be followed? How does one know which one to follow and which one not to? If I were to wait a week or 5 days between increases, I would have been chastised for taking long between increasing back to a stable dosage.

As I originally mentioned in my post, I don't ever expect to get him into remission, he has too many inflammation issues going on along with this disease. The chronic pancreatitis most likely threw him into diabetes. I just want him in the blues where he won't go too high and won't go too low. I test him often to make sure he is within range. I'm not one of the folks on this board that has to keep my cat below 100. That's great for them, but unrealistic for me and Spike.

Also, I've got to say, when I have posted here pleading for dosing help, my requests went unanswered. Or I was chastised for not putting in the date in my subject line, then it was for not listing test results in my subject line. Others were responded to but I wasn't. Fine, correct my input, but answer my question, too. I just couldn't understand was no one would help me help my kitty. That is why I have not been present on this board for awhile. Since I was not looking for dosage assistance, I thought I would try again. If no one helps, I've just got myself and the files I have read.

So, what you're really providing for me in your response seems like another reprimand. What would really be helpful to me and my boy is a suggestion or two what your experienced opinion can tell me. What do you suggest I do and consider? He is staying at this level until he shows me I can drop him. I don't feel comfortable going higher at this point.

Cancel the ultrasound, even though it is done w/o anesthesia, ride the ride? I don't want him to be hyperglycemic either. His clinical signs show true diabetes. Eating, drinking, urinating. I have been told a good range is 80-120.
Thank you.
 
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DevilPup said:
What am I speeding thru? I don't see it.
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Wendy explained very clearly that you are going too fast increasing & decreasing the dose.

DevilPup said:
I have not done enough research on it
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DevilPup said:
I have read many stories of natural treatments that are just not proven and just hurt the animal instead of
helping.
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Pharmaceutical drugs have side effects.A lot of "research has proven that" ( haven't you seen the commercials listing the side effects?) I've been using "Natural" herbs for over 40 yrs & have NEVER had a problem with side effects or with hurting my cats.Natural remedies have been used longer than any Pharmaceuticals!
The Drug companies make a trillion dollars a year selling you their drugs.Vets make money selling you more drugs also!


My cats have been HURT by Vets prescribing too many drugs & the wrong one.3 yrs ago Ravan's brother was having difficulty breathing I brought him to an Emergency clinic. They took an exray & told me he had lung cancer! I was in shock. They gave him Bupe for pain & sent me home. Later in the night he went into respiratory failure. I read on the web site for Bupe that it should not be given to an animal is respiratory distress because it could cause "death" The next morning I got a call from the Emergency Clinic telling me they had an EXPERT read my kitties X ray & he did NOT have Cancer!! Just an infection that could be treated!

I'm 72 yrs old & have had animal companions all my life. Most have lived for many healthy years. My kitty Daisy lived to be 23 yrs old. I do NOT take any meds myself. If you trust the Vets & drugs will help your cat that's your choice! I've heard Many stories about drugs hurting animals & people.

Your Vet may be gentle but going in the car & having any procedure done is VERY stressful for your animal. Why does your cat need another ultra sound?

You came on this web site to get help. Some of the people here have been doing this for many years. They have more experience than most vets! And it doesn't cost you anything for their advice. They are knowledgeable & donate their time to help people like you & me.


We all love our animals & want what's BEST for them. All of us here are trying to be helpful & encourage you to help your kitty. Did you take some time to read the information or watch the video I suggested? The more knowledge you have about diabetes the better you can help your cat.

I wish you the best of luck with helping your kitty! We all do.:)
 
I just read your post above. You were advised to add info to your post to make it easier for someone to help you. No one is chastising you. Just trying to be helpful!

Although there are advisers with a lot of experience there are also a LOT of new people coming on the forum each day.
Sometimes it's just not possible to get to everyone asking for help. That's why we tell you to keep learning & reading the information provided. You need to remember they are doing their best to Help everyone but they do have a life & are not always available.

We were all new like you. And yes I remember getting frustrated too. I did read everything & asked a LOT of questions also. I came to understand that the advice I received here was correct. Even my Vet was impressed when I showed him the SS (spread Sheet) I've given my vet information he was not aware of.
He's an older man, has had his own practice for many years,& just doesn't have time to keep up with all the new information Many vets don't!

You need to take a few deep breaths & be very patient! I've been here for 10 months & my Ravan is not regulated.He still bounces into High #'s Each cat is different.
I've seen some got into remission just by eliminating all dry cat food. (Dr.Pierson writes why it's important to stop feeding ALL dry food.)

Try to learn more ,watch the videos & be patient! It will get easier.

We're all trying to help!
 
Yes, you may not have increased past a good dose, and it’s also possible you might have. The only way to know for sure is to slow down and wait to get good data on this dose. Hold the 2.0 unit dose as per the SLGS guidelines. Spike will tell you if the dose is too much or too little. You haven’t had to go this high in dose before. Not to say that he doesn’t need that now, but you should use caution and safety first in increasing From this point on.

The post you read about increasing back to a last good dose may have been related to Tight Regulation? I know it’s also suggested if people have to reduce for a pet sitter dose or other temporary dosing reason. Increasing back to the last good dose following earned reductions is not a reason to jump back up in dose. The amount of help the pancreas needs can var6 over time but doubling the dose in less than two weeks is too fast.

Sorry your last post got no help. If you aren’t getting anyone stopping by, try bumping up your post by just adding a post saying “bump”.

I do hope something is not wrong with Spike and causing his insulin requirements to jump up. FWIW, I agree with you on CBD. The only research is recent and on dogs, not cats.
 
DevilPup said:
You do have files attached to this board that indicate once a reduction proves no longer effective, to increase back up to a optimal level as quickly as possible and not to wait the week or so between increases.
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These directions are for Tight Regulation Protocol, not Start Low, Go Slow.....it's easy to get overwhelmed when you read through all the information on this site and accidentally "mix" them up.

One of the hard things to learn (and accept) about Lantus is that it doesn't work quickly. When I was first here, it was explained to me like this:

Using Lantus is like steering an ocean liner....you can turn wheel all the way to the left, but it takes time to turn the boat all the way around. Start Low, Go Slow requires that you hold each dose for at least 7 days unless they drop below 90. If they do, you reduce the dose and hold that for another 7 days.

Some insulins are more like a speedboat...as soon as you turn the wheel (increase the dose) the boat turns

Right now, the 2U dose is getting him into nice high green numbers. I'd just hold this 2U dose for 7 whole days (unless he drops below 90) and see how he does.

We all really do want to help each kitty that comes here. Sometimes it's hard to express a "tone" in the written word, so it can sound like we're dictating or criticizing, but we really aren't.

Good luck with your dear Spike though! He's adorable and I love the expression on his face!!
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
Wendy explained very clearly that you are going too fast increasing & decreasing the dose.





Pharmaceutical drugs have side effects.A lot of "research has proven that" ( haven't you seen the commercials listing the side effects?) I've been using "Natural" herbs for over 40 yrs & have NEVER had a problem with side effects or with hurting my cats.Natural remedies have been used longer than any Pharmaceuticals!
The Drug companies make a trillion dollars a year selling you their drugs.Vets make money selling you more drugs also!


My cats have been HURT by Vets prescribing too many drugs & the wrong one.3 yrs ago Ravan's brother was having difficulty breathing I brought him to an Emergency clinic. They took an exray & told me he had lung cancer! I was in shock. They gave him Bupe for pain & sent me home. Later in the night he went into respiratory failure. I read on the web site for Bupe that it should not be given to an animal is respiratory distress because it could cause "death" The next morning I got a call from the Emergency Clinic telling me they had an EXPERT read my kitties X ray & he did NOT have Cancer!! Just an infection that could be treated!

I'm 72 yrs old & have had animal companions all my life. Most have lived for many healthy years. My kitty Daisy lived to be 23 yrs old. I do NOT take any meds myself. If you trust the Vets & drugs will help your cat that's your choice! I've heard Many stories about drugs hurting animals & people.

Your Vet may be gentle but going in the car & having any procedure done is VERY stressful for your animal. Why does your cat need another ultra sound?

You came on this web site to get help. Some of the people here have been doing this for many years. They have more experience than most vets! And it doesn't cost you anything for their advice. They are knowledgeable & donate their time to help people like you & me.


We all love our animals & want what's BEST for them. All of us here are trying to be helpful & encourage you to help your kitty. Did you take some time to read the information or watch the video I suggested? The more knowledge you have about diabetes the better you can help your cat.

I wish you the best of luck with helping your kitty! We all do.:)
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I truly appreciate your insights. But I have a friend who is a true naturalist. She hates any type of chemical drugs, etc. She uses only natural products. Last week she was on another FB page looking for assistance because she felt she injured her kitty with the natural remedy.
I know pharmaceuticals have side effects. I'm not naïve and I'm not 20 years old either. Unfortunately, I am a few medications myself. I'm happy for you that at your age you are free from the chains of medications. I hope that trend continues. But I'm not sold on raw food or CBD oil yet. Sorry.

I came to site to get help. But on several occasions, help was not provided....I was only chastised. I am not the only person that feels this way. I want the best for my boy, too. That is why I am here again, looking for assistance even though in the past, I have been overlooked.

The ultrasound is to check for any changes to his pancreas since the last one. He is sick. It is showing in his face and in his eyes and in his day to day actions. And his BGs are confirming my observations. I know my cat. I know all my cats. I can't just sit here throw my cat a little CBD oil and some SEB. I have given my CKD/IBD cat SEB. I try saline spray and vaporizer boxes for his rhinitis which is terrible. He can't breathe. He also has asthma. No I have not yet reviewed your video, but I have read Dr. Pierson's articles at length. I also work full time. Last night I was up reading more on the web. Dr. Hines and all his attachments. I won't just use something that I personally don't feel comfortable using. And CBD oil is not in my comfort zone yet. It may work for your cats, but ECID. I will review the video after his pm shot and of course I agree anything I can learn will assist.

Above all, know this....I am not fond of Veterinarians, nor the drugs. Most are not in it for the animal. I have just switched to another Vet after a few before. If I'm not satisfied its on to a new one. But as you have said, every time I have to go the vet it is stressful for them. I try not to push it. so I have to be really sure before I venture onto another one. That will require another visit, etc, etc. I have also had pets all my life. I am learning more and more about illnesses and how to research and be proactive for them. I am not one of those people who puts their animals down because treatment is inconvenient for me. My whole life is spent around my animals. And I don't just "do" what the vet says. Please don't judge me. You don't know what goes on in my life daily nor what has happened with my pets in the past. You honestly have no idea. And I am truly sorry for the loss and ineptness of the emergency room vet your pet was taken to. My heart truly breaks whenever I hear any animal in pain, suffering or dies because of some human moron idiot.

I am at the mercy of whatever info I can get. But it can't all be in the form "correcting the way I pose a plea for help!" What are your suggestions? I received several from you and I truly appreciate it. But if what I get from the volunteers who want to help me is just "you did this wrong" how am I going to fix it? What is next, what are the suggestions now? No, I don't agree everybody wants to help. If they truly wanted to help they would provide some insight, suggestions, and then correct how my plea was formed. What's next? Where do I go from here?

I'm not sure why it seems like you are being attacked personally. That was never my intent, but I'm not as "on-board" with natural remedies as you are, we will have to agree to disagree. I truly appreciate your suggestions and will review the video this evening. I hope you continue your freedom from pharmaceuticals, but please be careful, as well. I did look at your kitty's SS by the way. Thank you for sharing. And I wish you and your kitties well, too.
 
I appreciate everyone's help and assistance. Truly I do. Spike is going to stay the course. He will remain at 2U until his body tells me differently. He will go to his appointment tomorrow and we will be with him, reassuring him while the doc is looking. My husband also took time off so that he can sit in the back seat with Spike out of the carrier, looking out the window. We can only minimize the impact of going to the vet so much.

I want Spike back to that 4 or 5 week period. I could tell he was feeling good and that is my most favorite place to be.
 
The only advice I can give is to "Learn as much as you can & be Very Patient!" Chris & Wendy are Expert advisers ! Their advice is what you need to follow. I'm still new Only 10 months!:p (It feels a LOT longer)

Most of the people here feel as you do about "Natural" remedies. I just told you "what I do" because it helped my cats. I wanted to share my experience with you. Your kitty is taking 9 different meds! What do you think that is doing to his body? Don't you wonder if some of it is what's making him feel sick?
This web site is about natural remedies for Kitties allergies https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-health-holistic-treatments-asthma-allergies , but if you read it it may give you some "New" ideas! I always try to keep an open mind to things I don't understand or haven't tried.

I sincerely hope Spike gets better! (what ever it takes) :):bighug:
 
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Because one of my kitties died from the use of Bupe pain meds I want to give you more info about it.
Buprenex is only approved for human use by the FDA, but vets are allowed to use it for animals.,Buprenex is incredibly strong and the threshold for an overdose is very narrow.The FDA has not approved Buprenex for use on animals, they don’t provide information for dosing cats. It’s also important to point out that the health implications of Buprenex when used long term have not yet been evaluated.

Buprenex is metabolized in your cats liver, so any drug processed in a similar way may interact dangerously.

Liver failure becomes a risk factor when numerous medications are being processed at once. ( your Kitty has 9 meds in his body every day!) Don't you think this is very difficult for a Cat to process?

Common side effects of Buprenex are similar to most other painkillers. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and general stomach upset are among the most common.
When experiencing withdrawal your cat may seem in poor health and need extra care to get back in a healthy condition.

One of the more frightening effects of too much Buprenex is breathing problems

If you think that because your Vet prescribes it & other people use it,that it's SAFE. You are wrong! BIG money is being made off these drugs & the Big Pharma companies are VERY powerful!

I have NEVER read any Bad side effects using Slippery ELM or CBD OIL.There are thousands of people all over the world using Natural Meds & Vets prescribing them.( for Much longer than the meds from big Pharma!)

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/cornell-takes-lead-cannabidiol-research https://draxe.com/slippery-elm-for-pets/

I just picked one of the meds you're giving your cat because it caused my cats death. If I were you I'd look up the side effects of each of the meds you are putting into Spikes body!

Trying to make you aware that just because a VET prescribes it DOES NOT make it safe!!!
 
Chris & China said:
We all really do want to help each kitty that comes here. Sometimes it's hard to express a "tone" in the written word, so it can sound like we're dictating or criticizing, but we really aren't.

Good luck with your dear Spike though! He's adorable and I love the expression on his face!!
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:), :cat:... :bighug:
Everything will be ok. Chill and trust here... on FDMB ;)
 
DevilPup said:
I came to site to get help. But on several occasions, help was not provided....I was only chastised. I am not the only person that feels this way. I want the best for my boy, too. That is why I am here again, looking for assistance even though in the past, I have been overlooked.
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:oops:
 
DevilPup said:
suggestions? I received several from you and I truly appreciate it. But if what I get from the volunteers who want to help me is just "you did this wrong" how am I going to fix it? What is next, what are the suggestions now? No, I don't agree everybody wants to help. If they truly wanted to help they would provide some insight, suggestions, and then correct how my plea was formed. What's next?
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I feel your pain sometimes :oops:, know you aren’t alone.
 
DevilPup said:
I am learning more and more about illnesses and how to research and be proactive for them. I am not one of those people who puts their animals down because treatment is inconvenient for me. My whole life is spent around my animals. And I don't just "do" what the vet says. Please don't judge me. You don't know what goes on in my life daily nor what has happened with my pets in the past.
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Well said :bighug:
 
https://www.theinternetpetvet.com/big-pharma-veterinary-medicine/

Big Pharma- “The large pharmaceutical companies’ now have a profound influence on your pet, but more importantly, on your vet. I speak from experience, after being a practicing veterinarian for nearly 20 years, I have seen the ‘drugification’ of veterinary medicine.

It all comes down to profits, and massive ones at that, leading to the large drug companies yielding more and more influence on veterinarians, veterinary students, pet owners, and ultimately your choices as a consumer.

Big Pharma is king. And they are affecting all of us.

Most veterinarians and most pet owners are of the belief that ‘there is a pill for every ill’ – It is now unusual to ever leave your veterinarian without a prescription for something.

I NEVER put anything in my animals mouth until I research it Thoroughly! I read everything I can find. I am convinced we need to be pro active & an advocate for our animal companions.

And for ourselves! Everyone I know over 50 is taking at least 5-7 drugs! Do you really think this is necessary?

I recently went to a specialists for some minor problem. ( she is with a well know hospital, head of the department, highly recommended .After a biopsy, that was normal, She recommended I have a hysterectomy because ,"I didn't need those organs any more & they might cause problems in the future!!! "
What else don't I need? Maybe remove my Breasts, I might get cancer ? People need to wake up! It's all about money now days. Whether it's for your animal or you it doesn't matter.

I'm so upset with the way people just take the meds their DR. gives them without question.And the same with our animals!
 
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! @JoyBee&Ravan Ease up.

Herbal or natural remedies/supplements *can* have dangerous side effects just as pharmaceuticals can have side effects. Serious, even fatal, interactions have been reported between cardiac medications and supplements and more recently kidney and liver disease.
A couple of good articles and there's a whole lot more out there:
I'm not favoring pharmaceuticals over "natural" remedies. IMHO, too often people tend to flood their bodies (or kitty's body) with natural remedies blindly... not to mention there is often little to no research to support their actions.

Please do not make blanket statements about safety... whether you're talking about pharmaceuticals or "natural" remedies. Both should be researched and the pros and cons (side effects, interactions, and benefits vs risk) discussed with your vet.

@DevilPup
I apologize for hi-jacking your thread.
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
The only advice I can give is to "Learn as much as you can & be Very Patient!" Chris & Wendy are Expert advisers ! Their advice is what you need to follow. I'm still new Only 10 months!:p (It feels a LOT longer)

Most of the people here feel as you do about "Natural" remedies. I just told you "what I do" because it helped my cats. I wanted to share my experience with you. Your kitty is taking 9 different meds! What do you think that is doing to his body? Don't you wonder if some of it is what's making him feel sick?
This web site is about natural remedies for Kitties allergies https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-health-holistic-treatments-asthma-allergies , but if you read it it may give you some "New" ideas! I always try to keep an open mind to things I don't understand or haven't tried.

I sincerely hope Spike gets better! (what ever it takes) :):bighug:
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He does not take these drugs all at once. He takes them as needed. (PRN) He only takes a few meds daily. He takes Prozac (1/2 recommended dose), Flovent (lowest dose) and probiotic.
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
Because one of my kitties died from the use of Bupe pain meds I want to give you more info about it.
Buprenex is only approved for human use by the FDA, but vets are allowed to use it for animals.,Buprenex is incredibly strong and the threshold for an overdose is very narrow.The FDA has not approved Buprenex for use on animals, they don’t provide information for dosing cats. It’s also important to point out that the health implications of Buprenex when used long term have not yet been evaluated.

Buprenex is metabolized in your cats liver, so any drug processed in a similar way may interact dangerously.

Liver failure becomes a risk factor when numerous medications are being processed at once. ( your Kitty has 9 meds in his body every day!) Don't you think this is very difficult for a Cat to process?

Common side effects of Buprenex are similar to most other painkillers. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and general stomach upset are among the most common.
When experiencing withdrawal your cat may seem in poor health and need extra care to get back in a healthy condition.

One of the more frightening effects of too much Buprenex is breathing problems

If you think that because your Vet prescribes it & other people use it,that it's SAFE. You are wrong! BIG money is being made off these drugs & the Big Pharma companies are VERY powerful!

I have NEVER read any Bad side effects using Slippery ELM or CBD OIL.There are thousands of people all over the world using Natural Meds & Vets prescribing them.( for Much longer than the meds from big Pharma!)

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/cornell-takes-lead-cannabidiol-research https://draxe.com/slippery-elm-for-pets/

I just picked one of the meds you're giving your cat because it caused my cats death. If I were you I'd look up the side effects of each of the meds you are putting into Spikes body!

Trying to make you aware that just because a VET prescribes it DOES NOT make it safe!!!
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Please understand I am only going to respond one more time to you. Spike does NOT take all these meds on a regular daily basis. Most are PRN which means, as needed. In fact, you are not even aware of the dose. And when he needs meds for his pancreatitis flares he does not get all the panc meds either. He gets what I feel he needs because I know my cat. I have researched every drug before given to my animals. There are notes in all my pets charts on what meds I won't accept. Just because a Vet says I should give a particular med to my animal, does not pass by me. In fact, the majority of the time, I ask the vet for the specific drug I want for my animals.

I also wanted to make a note to a previous post. You say every time an animals is put in the car they get stressed. Well, in a year and a half, I will moving out of state about 1100 miles south. What should I do with my animals? Take them in the car with me to their new home or take them to a shelter? Sometimes we just need to choose the lesser of two evils. They will just need to suck it up for the 2 day ride in the car. I am already trying to come up with a better way to move them. I may rent a motor home...may be a better experience for them.

I'm sure you mean well, but frankly, I don't agree with you. Good luck with your kitties and with your own health. Lu and Spike.
 
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JoyBee&Ravan said:
I do research everything I'm talking about.( I go to veterinary web sites,) The info I'm giving are NOT my comments.
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You're presenting one side when there are two. So, while they're not your comments, they're also not giving a complete/balanced picture.
JoyBee&Ravan said:
I'm very passionate about this because Ravan's brother Jai, died from a prescribed Drug.
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I'm very sorry for your loss. However, there are some who have lost pets and/or people... or have of had complications added to the picture due to "natural" remedies. There are two sides to this coin and it's worth our while to explore both.

PS -- It's fine to be passionate. Let's just be careful not to become over-bearing.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Yes, you may not have increased past a good dose, and it’s also possible you might have. The only way to know for sure is to slow down and wait to get good data on this dose. Hold the 2.0 unit dose as per the SLGS guidelines. Spike will tell you if the dose is too much or too little. You haven’t had to go this high in dose before. Not to say that he doesn’t need that now, but you should use caution and safety first in increasing From this point on.

The post you read about increasing back to a last good dose may have been related to Tight Regulation? I know it’s also suggested if people have to reduce for a pet sitter dose or other temporary dosing reason. Increasing back to the last good dose following earned reductions is not a reason to jump back up in dose. The amount of help the pancreas needs can var6 over time but doubling the dose in less than two weeks is too fast.

Sorry your last post got no help. If you aren’t getting anyone stopping by, try bumping up your post by just adding a post saying “bump”.

I do hope something is not wrong with Spike and causing his insulin requirements to jump up. FWIW, I agree with you on CBD. The only research is recent and on dogs, not cats.
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I read it regarding a failed reduction. That's where Spike was "a failed reduction." The instructions said, raise quickly to where he last was successfully. It made me nervous, too raising him faster then he initially went up ladder when he started this new life. Once he got higher than he ever was I said, this is it, no more. I have to reach out again. I initially started him in the beginning (August) at .5U. I didn't even want to begin at a full unit. I raised him slow by .25U until he rated drops.

I truly hope I did not shoot him past a good dose. I am hoping in time, his body will tell me. But this boy is all over the place. Low greens, entire blue, yellows and pinks. He follows no standard process. His nadirs are all over the place, if he has them; sometimes he just coasts...he is "his own cat." He follows no rules. :eek:
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! @JoyBee&Ravan Ease up.

Herbal or natural remedies/supplements *can* have dangerous side effects just as pharmaceuticals can have side effects. Serious, even fatal, interactions have been reported between cardiac medications and supplements and more recently kidney and liver disease.
A couple of good articles and there's a whole lot more out there:
I'm not favoring pharmaceuticals over "natural" remedies. IMHO, too often people tend to flood their bodies (or kitty's body) with natural remedies blindly... not to mention there is often little to no research to support their actions.

Please do not make blanket statements about safety... whether you're talking about pharmaceuticals or "natural" remedies. Both should be researched and the pros and cons (side effects, interactions, and benefits vs risk) discussed with your vet.

@DevilPup
I apologize for hi-jacking your thread.
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@Jill & Alex (GA) No worries and thank you.
 
DevilPup said:
He only takes a few meds daily. He takes Prozac (1/2 recommended dose)
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Interestingly enough, my kitty Tiny Solè was on Paxil for years for obsessive compulsive behaviors: biting her nails incessantly, monitoring, guarding and blocking her civvies from the food bowl. Paxil can predispose a person or animal to diabetes! Consequently, I'm not sure what came first, the diabetes that caused the OC behaviors, or were the OC behaviors a symptom of the diabetes. Very curious.

When Tiny was diagnosed with diabetes, I promptly began to wean her off of Paxil, which I did ever so cautiously and super slowly, over a period of two months, bit by bit. Once off Paxil and now getting insulin, Tiny Solè was transformed into a calm, sweet cat! It was incredible to see! So, was she diabetic all along and having anxiety around being hyper-/hypo-glycemic all along? I'll never know.

I tell you this story to offer you hope. Biology shifts and changes and good things can happen. We are charged with being caretakers to creatures who cannot use words to help us help them. That is a big task to take on and terrifying when it's a life or death matter like diabetes.

In my experience here, and I've only been here a short seven months, the people here are genuine, kind and only want to guide you to do what is best for your cat. Can some appear to be forceful with their opinions,? Yes, at times, but they mean well. Is learning all you can overwhelming? Absolutely. So, think of the experienced helpers here as shortcuts to invaluable information until you gain more experience and knowledge.

Consider that they deal with us newbies constantly repeating things we don't know. I imagine that is a challenge for them from time to time. Patience and loving kindness going BOTH ways is paramount.

Stay. It's the best way to help your kitty. It may not be perfect every day, but I promise, people can and will help.

Hang in there.
 
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