Sabrina's A Little Better Today

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by BriniWeenie, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I am living in Spain and there is not a lot of resources/things available like in other parts of the world so it makes things more difficult with getting Sabrina the help she needs. I guess I'll provide some background first but I'll try not to get too off track and I'll fill in details as I go.

    Due to current financial hardship I was unable to take Sabrina to the vet back about a month or so ago when I first noticed her obsession with water. She was always fascinated by water, she loved splashing in water bowls, playing in the sink or shower. She's always loved water. I've had her since she was a kitten, she will be 15 in a few months. But around Christmas I thought her usual water fascination was extreme. Over the past few weeks I noticed she was drinking excessive amounts. I also noticed the strange walk. I suspected she was diabetic and I knew I had to take her to get looked at but I did not have the funds to get her tested right then and there.

    A friend loaned me the money, which I got yesterday morning. I took Sabrina to the vet right away and the vet on duty was somebody I had never met before. I heard there was a new vet at the clinic. I've been going there for 12 years and the vets come and go every couple of years. She never met me or Sabrina before.

    She did a urine test and took blood and also did a strip test. Her BG was 325. Sabrina's weight is very low. She was always a thin cat and all this time she was eating, drinking, using the box and I didn't notice she was losing weight. She only weighed 2.15kg. The vet seemed reluctant to recommend any other treatment other than to put her to sleep. I had already explained to her that I would have brought her a few weeks ago if I had the funds to pay for tests. I did in fact, have the funds yesterday and I told her I was willing to pay for whatever tests and treatments she needed. I borrowed this money to get Sabrina taken care of and that's exactly what I did as soon as it hit my bank account.

    This vet didn't seem to think there was a point in trying other methods but I pressed. She told me she would give her some fluids but I should consider making the decision to put her to sleep later that day. I thought to myself "What vet doesn't consider any form of treatment?" The results of Sabrina's blood test wouldn't be back until Monday because they get sent out and nothing will happen over the weekend. She said so herself that Sabrina was content/not in pain so what was the rush to make the decision? At least wait until the results come back so I know if there's something else going on with Sabrina or what. I wondered if she was judging me and thought maybe I was wasting her time due to the fact I didn't bring Sabrina in sooner, so how was I going to pay for it?

    But i thought maybe my emotions were getting the better of me because of course I do have feelings of guilt for not taking her in before but I figured I'd have a better chance of getting her treated if I went with some money, then ask if I could set up a payment plan. For goodness sake, my cats have been patients there since 2008 and I've brought more clients their way by recommending them. So I had hoped that by going there today and paying for the initial tests and working out future payments, the vet might work something out with me, but this vet didn't know me. But she could see in my file that I've been going there for years, I don't have any outstanding bills, and almost always paid everything in full before.


    She told me to come back later in the evening to "make my decision" but of course during my hours at home I spent all day looking up all the information I could so when I went back there later I was not simply going to put her to sleep without at least TRYING something. Sabrina is a strong willed cat and I have had cats tell me before when it was their time to say goodbye. I wasn't getting that vibe from Sabrina, I was getting the vibe that she wanted to live.

    I decided that if she kept pushing I would ask to take Sabrina home and I'd go get a second opinion from another clinic. But when I returned later that night, another vet was on duty. One who knows me and one I know is reasonable.

    So I went in and we started talking about what the blood test might reveal, home treatment, insulin, diet, everything that I would have to do to on my end to get Sabrina well again and she said yes she would work out a payment plan with me.

    She went in the back to get Sabrina so she could show me how to do injections and get her ready for going home, then she changed her mind. She said Sabrina's weight was a problem and she also didn't think there was any hope and that she recommended compassionate euthanasia. I said to her " If she is not in pain and is not suffering like you say, is there any harm in me taking her home tonight and trying these things anyway even if you think she has no chance? Can I at least try?"

    She agreed to that and gave me 4 shots of insulin for the weekend. I am not sure what kind is is, she gave me I don't know what the term is, but she filled the syringes for me so I didn't happen to see the name. She told me to feed her pate/wet food, keep her warm and administer the injections every 12 hours. Then come back on Monday for the test results and see if by some miracle Sabrina has made an improvement.

    What I am asking is there truly no hope for Sabrina, am I just ignoring reality? It was after reading this forum all afternoon that gave me hope that she could be helped. Some of the threads I read involved cats that sounded like they were much worse off than Sabrina and they got well again, so let me know what you think.

    I tried not to get too off track and rein it in when I thought I was getting too carried away but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm probably missing a lot of details too as my head is pretty scrambled right now.
     
    Krystina & Nelli likes this.
  2. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Hi,
    I'm so sorry to hear about Sabrina, and I'm too new here myself to be of much help. But be encouraged that good help will certainly be along and will reply to you soon, I am sure.

    In the meantime, since you don't know what kind of insulin or maybe even how much is in each dose your vet sent home, it would be good to have some honey on hand, just in case Sabrina's blood glucose drops too low. My vet prescribed high doses for my kitty at first, and we had a couple of scary rounds. But some food and honey pulled her through.

    It would be great if you could pick up an inexpensive human blood glucose monitor; it will be easy to test Sabrina to see how her glucose levels are doing. Also, you've probably read but in case you haven't, her losing weight might be due to diabetes--not being able to "use" the food she eats. She might gain weight if her glucose is regulated.

    There are members here from all over the world; I'm sure someone from Spain will chime in with advice for you too.

    Sending good thoughts your way.
     
    Anthony Morgan likes this.
  3. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I do have a human blood glucose monitor, or my husband does. He's Type 2, but I will need to look up how to use one on a cat. I know it was 325 at the vet's this morning but she was on fluids until about 8:30PM when I went down to see how she was doing/see if she had made any improvement. She looked much better by then, but after the whole conversation about her low weight, the vet didn't recommend keeping her in overnight or anything so I just thought I'd take my chances and bring her home. So long as she's not in pain then there is no harm in treating her at home. I wasn't just going to put her to sleep without trying something, anything.
     
  4. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    I TOTALLY agree. And that's so good that you have a monitor handy. Let me look around and see if I can find some of the links about using them. Basically we just nick the edge of the ear and test the blood drop like your husband would. That doesn't seem pressing right now but would be handy if something unexpected happens. Since your husband is diabetic, you are way ahead of the game here--you will already understand hypo and how the disease works and all that. I am so glad that Sabrina came home with you.
     
  5. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
  6. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    To tests a cats glucose you can get the blood from the ear. You can use your husband's meter to test. If you look closely at your cat's ear, you will see a small vein running close to the edge of the ear. Between this vein and the edge of the ear is where you want to use the lancet to get the blood. Many of us find it easier to use the lancet free hand than using the lancet device since it gives us more control. To help get the blood flowing before you test massage the ear towards the tip. You want to test at least 2 hours after your cat has eaten. Here is a link with info on home testing http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

    Can you send us a picture of one of the filled syringes? We may not be able to tell you what insulin your vet gave you, but can tell you if we think the dose is too high. Also gives us the number from your test.
     
    Kerri & Tigger likes this.
  7. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    You prick the edge of the ear to get a blood drop and test it just like your husband!
    sweet spot diagram.PNG

    325 is NOT that high! We've had cats here that started out in the 700's so I totally think you're doing the right thing by giving her a chance.

    Hopefully Sabrina will have a good weekend and on Monday, you'll be ready to face your vet with lots of good information on going forward with treatment!

    You can do this! We can help!
     
  8. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    That was the first thing I looked up when I came home, what is high for a cat because I had no idea what range it should be in. I had seen some threads here with people who had cats with much higher levels than that so I wondered why the day vet basically wrote Sabrina off as a lost cause, not even wanting to wait until her lab tests came back. Since she's been back home, she's used the litter box fine, she's eaten her wet food. Oh, yeah because of where I live, most things close by 9pm, so I knew I wouldn't be able to buy Friskies Pate or anything specific like that from a supermarket until morning as it was almost 9PM by the time we got out of there and nowhere near any supermarkets. I did buy some pate from a small corner store, but they didn't have any of the decent stuff. I just knew that she couldn't eat dry food anymore and that would do until morning. She ate all her food, she's drinking water, she's walking around a bit.

    We are going to start the insulin in the morning, and we'll also do a glucose test. The diagram is very helpful!

    I tried to take a photo of the syringe but the lightning in my house is terrible this time of night. I can barely tell if there's any insulin in it or not. I watched her fill them but maybe there is only a small dose? 20200201_021043.jpg
     
  9. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    I can't quite tell....how many units does the syringe go up to (if it was filled to the last mark?)
     
  10. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
  11. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    I don't think I've ever seen a syringe like that (or that color)

    I'm wondering if it's even an insulin syringe.

    Let me tag some people and see what they have to say. @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie @Gill & George
     
  12. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I think it's just an ordinary syringe. I saw her put the insulin in them, though. I pretty much live in a place where there isn't a lot of choice or things readily available. Maybe they didn't have any in stock, I don't know. It's kind of that way with a lot of things here, unfortunately. Poor Sabrina. That is her in my profile pic, but she was only a kitten back then. She gave me that same look when I picked her up from the vet last night and it made me happy. It meant Sabrina's still got some attitude left and she was feeling more like herself. She also likes to tell me off with two short meows. When she did the short meows at me on the drive home I knew she was feeling better than she was that morning. She's chatty when she's happy so I knew the fluids had done her some good.
     
    Chris & China (GA) likes this.
  13. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome to you and little Sabrina. She is very pretty.
    I get really cross with vets who just suggest euthanasia as a way out when things might be difficult.
    Don't be persuaded to put her to sleep if you think she is OK.
    If it is just diabetes and she is thin....and she is willing to eat and use the litter box, and you can give her insulin and a low carb diet, I would definitely not consider euthanasia.

    A lot of cats loss weight when they have been diagnosed with diabetes. This is because they can't utilise the nutrients in the food properly until they are getting insulin regularly and their Blood glucose levels improve.
    My Sheba lost a lot of weight when she was first diagnosed but put it all back on later as she improved..

    I would start testing the blood glucose levels.
    Find out on Monday what type of insulin they gave you.
    You will need proper insulin syringes. We can help you with everything.
    Keep posting and asking for help.
     
  14. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Is there a brand name on the syringe?
     
  15. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    It is hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like a very small dose, and that's a fine place to start. As others have mentioned 375 is high, but it's not that high. My Billy was over 500 when diagnosed.

    I am in the US. I'm sure members in your area will be more useful, but I thought I could give you some canned food guidelines that will help. You're looking for high protein and low carb. Often pates work better than bits in gravy, as the gravy often contains carbs. Even an inexpensive brand will do. Avoid ones with ingredients that list grains, potatoes, tapioca, beans, peas, even things like potato or corn starch.

    It would be good if you can home test with the meter you already have. It can take a little practice, but it's completely doable. Make sure you girl gets her own lancet, you don't want her sharing with your husband. You may want to make a gradual switch to the wet food, if she isn't much used to eating it, to avoid tummy upset. If she's used to eating a certain amount of wet food, it may not be an issue.

    I want to show you a couple of pictures of my Billy, who is 11 years old. He was very sick when diagnosed. We were also upset with ourselves that we didn't get him into the vet sooner. We didn't realize how much trouble he was having. He was so sick, he laid around with his eyes half closed, he had neuropathy in his back legs, and he didn't eat for close to three days.
    [​IMG]

    Now I want you to see another picture. This was taken only 11 days after he was diagnosed. His neuropathy is almost gone. He's eating. He's already more alert and active than he had been in months.
    [​IMG]

    Now, a short month after diagnosis, there's no neuropathy at all. Billy is feeling great, and going into remission. He hasn't had any insulin at all in 18 days. Click on the link in my signature that says Billy's Speadsheet, and you can see his progress.

    Every cat is different. But it does not take long to see if treatment is going to help your sweet girl feel better. There is absolutely no reason not to try. Unless the blood work shows some additional issues, then you can reevaluate. Cats with diabetes can live a long and happy life. And your girl should be able to gain weight on the canned diet, as it's easier for cats to utilize. She may need to get her blood sugar regulated first before she gains much, but she should start feeling better right away. Just the change in food will make a positive difference, and the insulin will give her pancreas a chance to heal.
     
  16. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
  17. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    It very well could turn out that Sabrina has other health problems but that was what I was thinking to myself the whole time. Why couldn't the vet just wait until Monday before having that discussion with us, once the results came back. She does have neuropathy in her back legs, but these are things that can be treated. That's why I didn't think we should give up on her so soon. If those test results say there are other things wrong, then ok we will deal with that when the time comes. It just didn't sit right with me to euthanize her before the tests even came back, and not trying anything at all. And the evening vet even said "Ok, if you want to try you can, but I don't think she will get better". But here I am now, and you bet I will try.

    Billy looks great and in such a short amount of time! It gives me hope that Sabrina can bounce back too. That is exactly why I think Sabrina deserves that chance. She was never one much for wet food, she was never even one for eating little pieces of meat. I do sometimes feed the cats wet food but she was never interested in it before, but it is a different story now. She will eat anything that's put in front of her, she ate all the pate and she liked it so much she ended up wearing some on her nose and got some on her face. She is eating, drinking, peeing and is walking around a bit. If she wasn't doing any of those things I would feel differently about her future, but I feel in my heart that she has a chance.

    The packaging on the syringe says Sterican.

    I didn't mention before that we have given our cats injections ourselves before, but not insulin. We have other rescue cats besides her. We do have experience with some things, but Sabrina is our first diabetic. In the past, the vet has loaded this type of syringe up with antibotics or painkillers, so they do tend to promote home treatment at the clinic. We just have had no experience with insulin and where to inject it but she showed us how before we left and loaded those ones up for us.
     
  18. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Don’t give up. We have had quite a few cats here that the caregivers was told to think about euthanasia and in most cases the cat recovered well. Diabetes is very treatable. So is neuropathy.
    You will need to get proper insulin syringes. Ask about what type of insulin you will be giving. . Try and get them to prescribe Lantus or one of the long acting insulins.

    She may have been dehydrated. A lot a diabetic cats can get dehydrated. Try and add some warm water to her food if she will allow it.

    Do you know if they tested for ketones? If not ask them to test the urine on Monday. Or you can go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy and test her urine by dipping a test strip into the urine and reading the results against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.

    Keep feeding her throughout the day and night. It’s great she is hungry! Make sure she eats well before the insulin dose. I would wait 30 minutes after feeding her before giving the insulin and offer her food several times in the first 6 or 7 hours after the insulin.
     
    Krystina & Nelli likes this.
  19. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    OK...those look to be U40 insulin syringes but the syringe barrel is too big. It holds 1ml (up to 40 units)

    upload_2020-2-1_1-26-37.png

    upload_2020-2-1_1-27-13.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  20. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    You might see if THIS PLACE or THIS PLACE ships to you. It looks like your vet either used Caninsulin or ProZinc which are U40 insulin's.

    These syringes only hold a max of 20 units and have half unit marks.

    Other than trying to find sources for better syringes, there's really nothing you can do about the syringes until Monday when you can find out which insulin it is and whether the vet is going to work with you.
     
  21. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    What I'm worried about is what if we go there on Monday and they refuse to give proper syringes or insulin because neither vet thought I should proceed with treatment?

    The first vet did that strip test but I didn't know at the time that's what she was doing. It wasn't until I got home and started looking things up did I learn what the test was for. She collected the urine, put the strip in and then compared the reading on the side of the bottle. She didn't mention ketones or not that word at least. She said the sugar levels were high and then she did the glucose test with the 325 reading. All she said to me was "It could be a few things, its complicated". I didn't know what kind of a test she was doing, I thought the urine was collected to be sent off to the lab along with the blood test.

    While I had a feeling Sabrina was diabetic before I took her in, I didn't know what kind of tests would be done other than blood. I do kind of live in the back of beyond. I wouldn't exactly call things state of the art in my neck of the woods. Even our health care system is like that. Oh and getting things shipped here , I might see it some day or I might never. I ordered stuff from a pet supply place in another area of Spain a few years ago and it was supposed to arrive in a few days. It took about a month and it was a huge hassle trying to track it down. These are the kinds of extra challenges we face living where we do. I am originally from the US but I've lived abroad since the early 2000s. There's some things I'll never get used to. I always think "Oh if this were the US or the UK this wouldn't be a problem" and I get frustrated at some of the hurdles we face.

    I guess when Monday rolls around I'll only talk to the other vet, the reasonable one who knows us. I don't want to take Sabrina back to the day shift vet because she seemed pretty set on euthanasia and would be less likely to work with us than the other one. I guess it's all down to the blood tests. It could be something bad, but it might not be. But I will spend this weekend doing everything in my power to help Sabrina.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  22. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Sounds like she tested the urine for glucose, saw it was positive and then did the bloodwork to get a better idea of exactly how high it was.

    I haven't seen @Gill & George for awhile here, but I think I remember them being in Spain too.
     
  23. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I wish I had taken note of the insulin bottle. I saw her filling the syringes, we were talking, she was showing us how to inject, my head was everywhere. I was just so excited that she gave us insulin to take home because it wasn't looking like she was going to when she changed her mind and thought we should euthanize Sabrina too. The whole day was an emotional rollercoaster.
     
  24. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    We understand....totally!! When we get this diagnosis, it can really make your head spin....especially if your vet (who you trust to make good decisions for your furkid) tells you to give up.

    The vet that diagnosed my China said "insulin is a hassle...just feed her this dry prescription food and she may live another 4 months but she'll go blind first....are you sure you don't want to just put her down today"?

    I got on the internet that night, found this board and had another 5 1/2+ years of love before she passed from cancer.
     
  25. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Hola,

    I am Ann in Sweden, Suecia.

    Since Sabrina only weigh as little as 2,15 kg now, what was Sabrina's normal weight before?
     
  26. Shellcat

    Shellcat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2019
    Welcome to the Best Place You Can Be! I too, because of financial situation, had to wait to take my Sugar Baby, Mr. Moonie, to the vet. He had weight loss, drinking and peeing excessive amounts, and neuropathy. His BG was 555 when we were finally at the vet. I wasn't told to consider putting him down, but I received very little information. The vet did give me a meter and a bag of Purina DM both for free. She didn't mention that the strips for the meter would cost and arm and a leg or that I wouldn't be able to get them except online. Nor did she say that dry food isn't good. She gave me a prescription for insulin and sent me on my way. Only one time since I've been given the news that My Child Has Diabetes has the Dr's office called me. Today, his water intake and output is under control and he's gained some weight back. We're still working on getting his numbers down and he still walks with a wabble. But without all of the help from everyone here, Mr. Moonie an I would not know what, or how, to do anything to help him. Much Love from Us to You and Sabrina as you enter into this New Adventure!
     
  27. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Assuming the blood work doesn't bring any more bad news, I cannot imagine any vet refusing treatment if you wish to continue. Sure, they might try to talk you out of it, but if you stand your ground and say you want to try for a month and then reevaluate, I'm sure they will work with you.

    It's so good that she's hungry! Such a positive sign! She knows she needs to eat. At this point, I would feed her as often as she wants it, since she needs to gain weight. Just pull the food up 2 hours before test and injection time, to make sure she'll eat when she gets her shot. This will also give you a more honest BGL when you start home testing.
     
    BriniWeenie likes this.
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    We have a member in Spain that has a 9 month old kitten. This member only speaks and writes Spanish, so we have been using google translate to work back and forth. Helping her over the last month or so. Using Prozinc insulin. That may be the insulin your vet gave you. Impossible to tell, but that looks like a U40 syringe.

    Because of that, I know some of the limitations of trying to find appropriate diabetic cat food in Spain. She is ordering from Zooplus in Germany, because the Zooplus in Spain does not carry all the foods we have suggested. Feringa, Animonda Carny (beef selections), other food choices from this chart European food chart. They are all <10% carbs. Not sure which ones you can get in Spain.

    When looking at cat food labels in Spain, try to avoid foods that have a lot of carb based starchy ingredients like grains (wheat, corn, rice), peas, potatoes, cassava, tapioca.

    You need better insulin syringes for sure. You want the smallest "volume" syringes you can find. Those 1ml syringes will be almost impossible to accurately and consistently get a small amount of insulin measured. Look for 3/10 cc (ml) syringes. Maybe at a local pharmacy to start.

    Where in Spain? Far from a big city? Other member is in Barcelona.
     
  29. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
  30. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Gave her the insulin this morning, the dosage was so small it was virtually non-existent but I'm guessing that's because of her weight. Prior to weight loss, she weighed about 4kg. She was always a thin cat. My husband's glucose monitor was jammed today so we haven't yet done the test. He's fixed it, or he thinks he's fixed it, so we are going to try doing a test in a little while. He gets them for free through the health care system, as well as the test strips, so all he has to do is ask the nurse at our local health center for a replacement if his isn't working correctly. He is at the supermarket now, buying a whole selection of delicious wet foods for Sabrina to try, haha. She has eaten and used the box today but mostly stayed on the bed. She and I took a nap together in the afternoon. She's still chillin' out on the bed now and we'll try doing a BG test in a little bit. Hopefully the monitor isn't acting up again. Typical!

    Edit: I am in the Canary Islands, I'm not on the mainland so it's even more difficult to get access to things sometimes because everything has to be shipped in from somewhere else. There is still very much an old fashioned attitude in some parts about cats here. Some people still see cats as vermin and not pets so there is very little choice for cat food and litter in general. There's much much more for dogs than cats.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  31. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
     
  32. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    this is awful. I don't understand why they would encourage you to do this without even trying intervention. I will tell you from experience that once my cat started his treatment and his sugars were regulated he did gain weight and was back to a normal healthy weight. Please take a good look at Dr. Pierson's food charts. I was able to regulate my cat's diabetes and kidney issues strictly by using this chart. Even the vet was impressed with his regulation and his kidney numbers improved after 2.5 years. Please do not give up hope, and if it means a different vet, so be it.
     
    Krystina & Nelli likes this.
  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Dr Pierson's food charts are useful for members in the US.
    Most of those foods are not going to be available in Spain.

    Sadly, many vets recommend euthanasia for a cat. Not only in Spain but in the US also.
    Being in the Canary Islands off the coast of Morocco and nowhere near mainland Spain makes it even more difficult to source foods for a diabetic cat.

    Maybe tell us what you were feeding and we can check the ingredients list to see if there is anything that catches our eye.

    Maybe tell us what you were feeding your cat before and how many other pets you have and are feeding.
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    What kind of insulin does your husband use? You mentioned he is a diabetic. Maybe the insulin he uses could be used for a diabetic cat.

    Brainstorming here. As you fight for your cat. You are your cats best advocate. Keep on trying.

    At this point, Sabrina needs food and lots of it. Many small meals a day,so she doesn't vomit.
     
  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    What are the insulin syringes your husband uses for his diabetes? Does he use a U40 concentration insulin or a U100 concentration insulin?
     
  36. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    My husband is Type 2, so he does a weekly injection with a single use pen. However, I do have a friend who is friends with a vet, or she used to be close friends with her. I'm not sure how much contact they've had lately. They had some kind of fall out about a wrong diagnosis of one of my friend's cats and my friend now goes to my vet. I don't know if they are still as close as they were since then, but I will ask anyway. I have used this vet before for emergencies, but she's not in my area. So I could ask my friend to talk to her vet friend to see if I can get insulin through her and order some proper syringes.

    She's lethargic tonight so I'm keeping a close eye on her. She was moving around earlier but she hasn't moved from her spot on the bed since this afternoon. I brought food and water to her, she drank a good amount of water and ate 3/4 of a 100g container of patè, and she ate a whole one a few hours before. So she is still eating and drinking but she wasn't this lethargic before.
     
  37. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Have you tried Zooplus.es? We had another member in the canaries that used them. There are a number of the foods from the UK list,available you've been given above on zooplus.es.

    Below is their terms of delivery to canaries. I've found their customer service to be great.

    CANARIAS
    • Pedidos con un valor superior a 69 €: GRATIS
    • Pedidos hasta 69 €: 7,99 € (PVP incluye el ICIG)
    Los PVP incluyen el ICIG

    Importe mínimo de pedido: 29 €

    Suplemento de peso en pedidos que superen los 31 kg: 6,99 € por paquete extra enviado.

    zooplus se hará cargo de los impuestos insulares: impuestos a la importación (AIEM) y tasas aduaneras (DUA).

    Los envíos a Canarias se realizan con Correos Express. El pago contra-reembolso no está disponible para este destino.

    Plazos de entrega para las Islas Canarias

    Los plazos de entrega son entre 7 y 12 días laborales. Se enviará en un único envío semanal, por tanto, los pedidos realizados hasta el domingo saldrán en el envío de la siguiente semana para su entrega a partir del segundo martes desde la realización del pedido. En caso de haber algún festivo durante la semana del envío, los plazos podrán variar sensiblemente. Las entregas en islas menores se retrasarán un día más que para Tenerife y Gran Canaria.

    INFORMACIÓN GENERAL
    • En el momento de terminar el pedido, puede indicarse la preferencia de entrega con Correos Express o con GLS. Puede ocurrir que, por las características del paquete, el pedido no pueda ser entregado con el servicio de mensajería seleccionado por el cliente.
    • Es posible que los paquetes que pertenecen al mismo pedido se entreguen en días diferentes en algunas ocasiones.
    • Las mensajerías enviarán un email notificando la fecha de la entrega.
    • El servicio de pago contra-reembolso está disponible con ambos servicios de mensajería para entregas en la península e Islas Baleares y tiene un coste adicional de 2,90 €.
    • El importe total de los gastos de envío se indicará una vez que te identifiques en tu cuenta o cuando indiques tu dirección de entrega en el momento de validar tu pedido.
    • Los pedidos suelen ser procesados en un plazo máximo de 48 horas después de haber realizado el pedido.
    Si se elige transferencia bancaria como método de pago, el pedido comenzará a procesarse una vez recibido el importe del mismo.

    I'm on mainland Spain, very rural, I get all my stuff delivered.

    My local pharmacy gets my bd microfine demi syringes in for me (I used lantus a u 100 insulin). You might find using the local pharmacy cheaper and more helpful when it comes to sourcing supplies for you.

    My vet also painted a bleak picture, I cried all the way home. But I found this site and persevered an George, went into remission.

    I found that the strips for the insulin meter are expensive here in spain, I do have a freestyle lite as a backup (I can get strips at pharmacy at short notice) and then I bought an SD code free meter and strips, from the UK, they deliver all over the world, so I can't see you would have a problem.
    Here's their website below.

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/

    On the plus side I found that Lantus (human insulin that I chose to use after doing some research) is much cheaper here in Spain than it is for our friends across the pond. (My vet wanted to use vetsulin but I refused, and asked for a lantus prescription which she happily gave me)

    I do get how difficult bit can be here in Spain, and I know being in the canaries adds to the complexity. I get how cats are treated as second class citizens at the vets, George was my vets first Diabetic cat. Mostly because not many folk took their cats to the vets, glad to say that I see that slowly changing.

    Hang in there there is always hope and you don't need a vet knowledgeable in diabetes to treat your cat.
    I basically dosed my cat using the protocols for dosing on this site and with the help of the members here, that got us into remission.

    Please don't give up hope.:bighug::bighug::bighug:.
     
  38. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    My Billy had many days when he was lethargic. As long as your girl is still eating and drinking, then it's a positive sign. Sometimes I think they have quiet days when their body is trying to heal. Just a thought, no scientific data to back that up.
     
  39. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Were you able to get some Ketostix from a pharmacy to test for ketones?
    If Sabrina is lethargic, I would test for ketones to make sure she does not have any.
    Also try to get her to drink more. Will she let you add water to her food?
     
  40. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I did wonder if the first vet had a lot of experience with diabetic cats. My husband asked her if she had ever seen a cat as sick as Sabrina and she said no. She said she had treated similar cats, but Sabrina was worse. And then after doing some research I've since learned there are cats who were much sicker than her who made a recovery and turned out ok. So maybe that's why she was so quick to suggest euthanasia. The second vet discussed home treatment with me and she seemed to be more knowledgeable but then of course my heart sunk when she said Sabrina's low weight was a problem and she changed her mind and recommended euthanasia.

    And you're spot on about how the general attitude towards cats in Spain is. A lot of people especially think I'm weird because my cats are indoor only on top of it because they think I'm living in a house filled with vermin ! I only have one friend here who has indoor only cats. Everyone else has indoor/outdoor cats and they think I'm a weirdo for not letting mine out. But I say to each their own, ha.

    Sabrina peed all over her bedding and she hasn't moved. I changed her bedding, cleaned her up, and now she's got a few cats keeping her company. They know she is ill. It probably comes as no surprise she has a brother named Salem!

    I will see if we can get some of those urine test strips tomorrow. I am surprised the vets didn't even suggest anything like that to me, but I'm guessing it's because they think I am wasting my time treating her. We will not let the vet put Sabrina to sleep on Monday. I think we might even go there without Sabrina for the test results and see what the vet tells us. I'm afraid that once she's in there they will start guilt tripping us about euthanasia again. If she does have some kind of terminal illness, so be it. We will bring her back for that if that is the case.

    I've never bought anything from Zooplus before, I'm going to take a look at their site and make an account. I used to buy things from Tiendanimal but after that last debacle with it taking a month for me to get my order and me having to hunt it down myself I stopped ordering from them. It's not them, it's the courier they use that's the problem. I hope that isn't the case with Zooplus. It's pretty much like that any time I try to order things online, it's not the company, it's usually the courier that's the problem. We don't have UPS or FedEx or anything like that. Something might ship with UPS but it gets handed over to one of these couriers and then packages get lost in the shuffle.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the insulin I've got is the human kind. It's common for vets to use human medicine for a lot of things, like antibiotics, eye drops, so I have a feeling that human insulin is the preferred kind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  41. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    The insulins most of us use are human insulins.....like Lantus (glargine) and levemir.
    There are animal specific insulins like Prozinc and Vetsulin.
    We find the longeracting insulins like Lantus, levemir and Prozinc the best for cats.

    Don't let them make you feel guilty. Sabrina is your cat, you are her advocate and you are paying the bills.
    You know her best. Just politely say....no we do not want to do that thank you. We want her treated.
    Maybe your vet does not know a lot about feline diabetes.
    As long as you can get the insulin and the correct syringes we can help you with everything else.

    Please go out and buy the Ketostix or Keto-diastix as soon as you can to test the urine for ketones.
     
  42. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    If it is, those are the wrong syringes. My money is on the insulin being Caninsulin.

    I'm glad to see @Gill & George was able to comment. Having someone in the same country can be such a valuable resource! (even if you're in totally different parts)

    As for Sabrina's weight...as long as there isn't something else going on that's causing the weight loss, she can gain most (if not all) of it back again once she's better controlled. If you look at China's profile (in my signature) you'll see her "before" and "after" pictures. She was 6.8lbs at diagnosis (and her ideal weight was about 15lbs) …..within 6-7 months, she'd gained pretty much all of it back (plus some!)
     
  43. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I'm frustrated as neither me or my husband have managed to get a successful reading with the glucose monitor. We did get blood but there wasn't enough on the strip for it to read. I know it will take some practice to do it properly. We will try again later because Sabrina's a little agitated. I watched the videos but my attempt at it didn't go as smoothly.

    She still hasn't moved from her spot but she ate another 75g of patè about 2 hours ago and she looks like she's hungry again. She's also drinking water. Her lethargy is worrying me so I really wanted to get a reading to see where she's at.
     
  44. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Did your warm Sabrina's ear? Take an old sock, put some uncooked rice in the toe, tie a knot in the top of the sock. Heat in your microwave. You now have a warm 'rice sock' you can use on her ears to bring the blood flowing to the "sweet spot".

    After warming the ear, use a double poke of the lancet, two pokes close together to get a bigger blood drop. Give her a treat, successful test or not. Always a treat for being a 'good girl'.
     
  45. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I did warm her ear before trying but perhaps it wasn't warmed up enough. It'll try the warm sock next.

    In the past 30 minutes she ate another 50g of paté, got up and used the litter box herself and is walking around a little. Her poo is more solid today. There was a slight difference with it yesterday but it's not nearly as soft as it was prior to starting treatment. Every little thing is an improvement. :)
     
  46. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    You can also try gently massaging her ear before poking to get blood to the area. That may help too.
    I’m glad she is feeling better
     
  47. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Tomorrow is the big day when the test results come back and I'm so nervous. She is doing better, the improvements are small but they are there. The big **if** is what the lab tests say. I know what we need to do if the tests show there are no other problems, but I do also have to prepare myself for if she does have some kind of terminal illness.

    Part of me wants to show both vets that they were wrong but I know that's just my emotions getting the better of me. The second vet has been there for 4 or 5 years, she's always been good with the cats and I've never been dissatisfied with her before. I can't really say I'm dissatisfied with her about this either. I understand that vets are only human, they can make mistakes and they don't know everything. Maybe Sabrina **is** the worst case she and her colleague have seen.

    If the tests come back and show there's no other health problems and the clinic refuses to help us because they think Sabrina is too ill, then we will try asking our friend's vet friend for help or ask one of our connections at an animal shelter if they can help. I mean we borrowed money to get Sabrina treated but we don't have unlimited resources to go to new vets and start the process over and over again. Besides, this vet we go to happens to be one of the ones that's better equipped. Some aren't equipped to do more than the basics. So I'd rather not sour our relationship with this vet over Sabrina, but I will fight for her and I won't take no for an answer.

    But then it all comes back to getting past tomorrow and the test results. If everything else comes back ok, then I know given a couple of weeks she'll be fine. I see the difference already, I can only imagine what a week or two weeks from now will be like. And of course, that's depending on tomorrow's lab results.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  48. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You are your little girl cat Sabrina's best advocate.
    Keeping all paws crossed here for good news tomorrow.
    Sending "get better vines" to Sabrina and "calming vines" to you.

    Mindfulness breathing. Concentrate on your breath and block out all other thoughts. Even for only a minute or 2 can be helpful.

    @Juls and Billy had a dramatic turnaround too. You should see the pictures from day 1 and about 10 days later.

    There is hope.
     
  49. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Well they didn't even send Sabrina's blood test to a lab, they tested it in house only. So I don't have a lab report to share like I thought I would because it never went to one. I guess they really were set on putting Sabrina to sleep that day if they never sent her blood out.

    She weighs 2.20kg so she gained a little, her BG was 326. And the insulin is Caninsulin. It was the first vet who saw us today, we were going to wait until evening when the other vet was on but we needed insulin as we only had enough for Saturday and Sunday. The vet was pretty ok with us today and she even gave us the insulin for free. She suggested we bring Sabrina in for a weekly update and also helped us do a BG test, it was hard finding the right spot on Sabrina but we've got it now. We went to the pharmacy and bought syringes on our way home.

    So with that information I can start keeping a spreadsheet to mark her progress. I also got a few photos of her so I can show how she looks right now. There isn't a whole lot of change from the day we brought her in to today, but at least she is not worse. And she did gain a teeny bit of weight. All that eating she did too, she ate about 1000g of pate over the weekend.
     
  50. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Sabrina! Keep on eating and get better. Your momma loves you and is trying very hard to get you better.
    What dose of Caninsulin did the vet start you off with?
    We ear test our cats.
    Would you like some tips on doing that?
    No other medical problems for Sabrina except for the emaciated condition and the diabetes?
    She'll probably need to eat at least twice as much as a non-diabetic cat. At least for now.
    Getting her to eat and gain back some of that lost weight is very important right now, as you already know.

    Now for some technical stuff.
    Caninsulin is known as Vetsulin here in the USA. Same product, different name.

    We have a standardized spreadsheet we use here. So you don't "have to reinvent the wheel".

    FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions
    Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

    Take a look again at this link. It has some basics on preparing a hypo kit, basics of how to use the message board, setting up information in your signature to help us help you better, etc.
    New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

    Caninsulin is known as Vetsulin here in the USA. Same product, different name. You might find this link useful
    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)

    We have a separate ISG (Insulin Support Group) for Caninsulin, but there are not as many people that post there. I would suggest that you stay in the Welcome and Main forum for now. More people here to see you posts.

    So relieved that the vet was willing to start Sabrina on insulin.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

    p.s. I'm not sure we have ever had someone from the Canaries before. You have some unique challenges for food options, vet care, and simply getting supplies to where you live.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  51. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I had trouble with tiendanimal, it took them ages to ship, I waited over 2 month for a delivery of them.

    Zooplus uses Correos express here on the mainland. I hear your courier problems and empathise, I've managed to train the local couriers, I have their mobiles and liase with them. You may have an option when you place the order with who you can use. I choose Correos Express, have a good working relationship with them, but zooplus also use Seur (don't get me started on them), sometimes stuff comes with them even though I prefer Correos Express.

    What did they test for? some have quite extensive testing available in house to them?
    One of the vets we have used (not exactly local to us over an hour away) has an in house system and tests for quite a lot of parameters, he always gives me a report from the machine in his practice..
    I think a lot of vets here in spain just don't expect their clients to go that extra mile for their cat, in the same way they might for their dog.


    Good news on the weight and the eating, hope you can now start to cope with the home testing and run some curves.
    How is your girl though? still lethargic? or has she pepped up a bit.
     
  52. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Yes, it's Seur here too, they are awful. If Zooplus gives me a choice, it'd definitely be Correos Express.

    I think they only tested to confirm the diabetes. Normally blood tests get sent to a lab in Gran Canaria for testing. They can do scans and x-rays and that kind of thing there but analysis is only basic and anything more detailed gets sent out. I think they had no intention of ever sending it to the lab because they wanted to euthanize her. My friend messaged me a while ago, asking about Sabrina. She was the one I referred to that clinic before. She said her cat hates the day vet and wants to know where the one she replaced went to. So I guess it's not just me who gets bad vibes off her! But that's fine, all I really need now from the vet is the insulin, the rest I can do myself at home.

    Sabrina has phases she goes through during the day where she will walk around and periods where she is lethargic and stay in one spot for hours. There are small improvements that I've noticed, like even though she might only take a few steps before she rests, her legs are a little more steady than a few days ago.

    I'll update my profile and Sabrina's information later today. It's so much to learn all at once. I haven't slept for days and now that I got today over with I finally feel like I can relax a little, knowing that she's going to get better.

    Edit: Oh, I meant to add, she is on I guess one unit? It's the very very first mark on that syringe. The smallest dose possible.

    Here's a photo I took today, her coat is pretty poor and she's got dandruff. But this will give an idea of what she looks like right now. 20200203_124222.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  53. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Oh! The unkempt fur, the dandruff, the dull dry coat! Takes me back to memories of my foster cat Wink when he first came to my home. It will get better.

    Take a siesta, it's a nice warm mid-afternoon where you are. Maybe Sabrina will snuggle with you.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    Catch you later. If you are able to, take a picture of the syringe for us to look at. Later. When you are rested a bit.
     
  54. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    The syringes you got from the pharmacy, did they come in some packaging? Can you take a pic of that please? and post it
    I don't think that's an insulin syringe that you pictured above and I can't see the markings. If you can get a better picture of it and the packaging the syringes you got came in, I can work out the dose you have been giving her.
    It's just a bit of maths, but we have had the problem where folk have been given wrong info about the syringes they have been given, resulting in them giving much more, or not enough insulin.

    Did you happen to discuss the different insulin options with the vet?
    Vetsulin/Caninsulin is quite fast acting and for a lot of cats not long acting enough so a lot of folk find it's tough to achieve good regulation with it. Lantus and Lev(the long acting depot insulins), as a general rule, have a better reputation for helping a CG getting a kitty well regulated. My vet started us on tablets (which are useless in cats), I took that opportunity, 2weeks, to research and swap George from his HC dry diet to a soft LC diet, so when we went back I decided to ask directly for Lantus, my vet wanted to start with vetsulin/caninsulin but was OK with prescribing me Lantus, one thing I have found here, which is a positive, is that the vets are open to try new things, they don't get stuck in their ways.
    They usually start with Caninsulin/Vetsulin, because of some EU protocol, I found that out more latterly.

    Just bear the above in mind. No need to worry about the insulin type at the moment. First see how you girl does with it, if you are not getting the results you hope for/want know that there are other options, some insulin types work better than others depending on the individual cat.

    Keep us posted
    Look forward to seeing some curves for your girl.

    ETA
    Download the US spreadsheet here in Spain we use the same units as the US for bloodglucose levels, I've no idea why:blackeye:
     
  55. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I don't think it's those Chris, knowing how things work here, I think it's probably unlikely the vet had U40 syringes in stock (nor will the pharmacy) (probably just used the smallest syringes they had, and and added a regular needle, just looking at the size/colour of the needle barrel it looks like the ones I have used to inject antibiotics/anti inflammatory into the cats and dogs here. Probably a much larger gauge. Also the numbers are in black not red, like your pic.

    they look more like this to mehttps://zootecniasl.com/jeringas-tuberculina/15954-jeringa-injekt-tuberculina-1ml-sin-aguja.html

    They hold 1mm(40 units per full syrninge) total and go up in 0.01ml graduations (the small lines)(each small line being 0.4 units).
    If we can see the packaging or manufacturer on the syringe it will be easier to figure out. In the meantime, just keep dosing the amount the vet showed you on the syringe, assuming that the vets syringe and the pharmacy syringes are exactly the same. We can figure out how many units that is once you can give us info, send some more pics.
     
  56. Shellcat

    Shellcat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2019
    I know it's hard not to be a 'Hover Mother', but if my sweet boy DIDN'T lay in one place for hours at a time, I would think something was wrong. Let us not forget, Cats Spend Most of the Day Sleeping. I do get a bit concerned of he's sleeping in a new or unusual spot. I understand being financially strapped, as well. I worry often about cost and when I'll need supplies for him. It's ALOT, but you're doing what you need to do to help Sabrina get better. Good On Ya!!
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Well now, that sure does help to know that. Probably why members Mayka Otto in Spain and Teo in Argentina use the US spreadsheet version.

    Found this link, old from 2016 that lists which countries use mg/dL and which use mmol/L
    "Out of the countries listed, it looks like the USA, Central and South America, India, Japan, the Middle East and parts of Europe use mg/dL. Canada, Australia, South Africa, Northern Europe, China and the rest of the world use mmol/L." From this facebook page https://www.facebook.com/diavergeDi...asurement-of-mgdl-which-use-/625561337626529/
     
  58. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Ok, so it sounds like she is on .4 units because the dose is the very first mark. I have a few of the green ones the vet gave me today, and the pharmacy sold me a different kind.

    We will want to change insulin at some point but she did give us a bottle for free. It's normally €8 a bottle so every little bit helps. I thought we would have some resistance from the vet today and I was actually surprised she was helpful. She did say she thought Sabrina only had a small chance of getting better, but yeah--that remains to be seen. My friend said earlier that she felt that some vets are really quick to euthanize here. I know of two other vets in the area who are what I call "trigger happy"so I never go to them.

    And I probably am being a Hover Mother. Sabrina is aloof and independent as it is so she kind of hates being fussed over. Before she got sick, she'd prefer to find a spot apart from the other cats, normally the highest shelf she could jump up onto in the house. I used to joke that she liked sitting up on her ivory tower so she could look down on us peasants. It's why I have less photos of her than my other cats. She's a solitary cat and prefers to keep to herself. I am trying to tell myself not to fuss so much over her. I know what needs to be done now and I can just focus on getting into this routine and I don't have to worry so much. Getting the vet to work with us today was a huge relief.

    As the lighting in my house is bad at night, I found photos of the two syringe types.
    This is the type we got from the vet, it's Injekt F Leur Solo .01ml-1ml



    injekt-f-solo.jpeg

    The ones I got from the pharmacy are BD Plastipak 1ml 25g x 5/8 (.05x 16mm) and they come with needles on them.
    plastipak-303172-sterile-disposable-450321-191964_medium.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  59. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    We are used to "Hover mothers or dads" here. Kind of like "helicopter parents" with their human children.

    Caninsulin is a U40 insulin.
    I think those are both U100 syringes.
    Not sure if either one of those are insulin syringes.
    Does it say "insulin" or "insulina" (Spanish for insulin) on the barrel of the syringe?

    Tagging @Gill & George for their feedback.

    There is a way to use U100 insulin syringes with a U40 type insulin. There is a conversion chart that is used.
    It gets complicated though. It can be done.
     
  60. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Conversion chart for using U100 insulin syringes with a U40 insulin.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

    NOT recommended for those who can get U40 insulin syringes instead.
    Until you are trying to measure those tiny doses. It's too easy to overdose your cat if you mix up the syringes.
    For advanced members ONLY.
    Or those living in the Canary Islands where insulin supplies are difficult to come by.;)
     
  61. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    That's what the pharmacy gave me too, but the clear ones. The green ones are from the vet. This is the sort of place you've got to live in to see for yourself because so many things aren't readily available and then of course they make things as difficult as possible to get things sent here from elsewhere. Well, I can just order the proper ones from somewhere if I can't get them locally. Or maybe ask my regular pharmacy to order the correct ones.

    The vet showed us on the green ones what line to go up to, it's the very first mark on the syringe, it's the very minimum you can do I think, so whatever that converts to. Again, I apologize for the terrible lighting in my house at night. Here's a photo of the real one and I arrowed to the line the vet told me to fill it to. Inked20200203_231417_LI.jpg
     
  62. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    So you have U100 syringes?

    That looks like it may be a 1 unit dose from your picture.
    1 unit in a U100 syringe of a U40 insulin = 0.4 Units of that U40 insulin.
    U40 dosage multiplied by 2.5 gives you the dose to measure and draw up in your U100 insulin syringe.

    A 1 ml insulin syringe holds 1 cc (cubic centimeter) of insulin or 100 units maximum.
    In other words, one milliliter (1 ml) is equal to one cubic centimeter (1 cc)
    The 1.0ml line on the syringe is 100 Units.

    The 0.1 labeled and marked line on the syringe barrel is 10 units.
    The 0.2 labeled and marked line on the syringe barrel is 20 units.
    The 0.3 labeled and marked line on the syringe barrel is 30 units.
    • Cats need a very tiny dose, so starting at the very first line on the syringe, 1 unit looks about right.
    • You are trying for consistency on dosing.
    • Always get a pre-shot test.
    • No-shoot BG number when starting with Caninsulin should be set at 200 mg/dL
    • Feed 20-30 minutes before giving insulin.
    • So it's pre-shot test, feed, wait 20-30 min, shoot.
    • Try to get a test in the middle of the cycle. Somewhere between +4 and +7 hours into the "every 12 hour dosing" cycle. Vary the times for those tests. To see how low (the nadir) this dose of insulin brings your cat.
    • If too low, under 100, you might want to post on the board for help.
    • If under 50 mg/dL during the cycle, you will want to feed Sabrina some food to bring those numbers back up. You may need to do this for quite some time. So that Sabrina does not suffer from hypoglycemia. She is already weakened from the weight loss.
    • Caninsulin may only have a duration in cats of 8-10 hours. It's the best you can do for now.
    • Simply don't be surprised if the BG readings at Pre-shot test times are high.
    • You record the U40 insulin dose on the spreadsheet, not the amount drawn up in the U100 syringe.
    For some of the basics when using Caninsulin, this document will help guide you.
    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)

    p.s. I lived on one of the remote islands in the Bahamas in the late-1970's. For only 1 month. Special college level course. I can imagine where you live now is similar but with some modern amenities, like internet service and cell phones.
     
  63. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    https://www.bbraun.com/en/products/b/injekt-f-solo.html
    Just as I thought a regular syringe from the vet's is the same one my vets use. A whole syringe is 1ml and it is graduated in
    This one is a U100 insulin syringe. Though in the picture I am linking the graduations go up in units not ml unlike the picture you posted. So each large division is 10u (of U100 insulin and the small divisions are 1u.
    the pic I posted is not so good but you can see it better on this website https://www.doctorshop.es/Prodotti/...con-aguja-montada-25g-x-58-05-x-16-mm-9400031
    [​IMG]
    That very first mark is 0.01 ml.
    With a U40 insulin
    there are 40 units in 1ml
    4 units in 0.1ml (divide by 10)
    0.4 units in 0.01ml (divide my 10 again)

    Those BD syringes (at least the pics I find when I google it) are calibrated in insulin units for a u100 insulin for easy of use. The whole syringe contains 1ml or 100units of U100 insulin, or if using a U40 insulin 40units in the whole syringe.
    Since there are 100 of those tiny marks on the syringe (at least the one I pictured) each of those tiny marks is 40u/100 =0.4u.
    So to continue giving the same dose the vet started you on, you still just go to that first mark, it's just the same.

    While you are using the U40 Caninsulin, you can just continue with what you have. But if you do decide to change to a U100 insulin, those syringes are too big to dose accurately. But you should not have a problem getting these syringes made by BD, I just took the info to my pharmacy and she ordered them in for me. As your pharmacy already has BD syrniges I feel sure they will be able to get them in.
    Bd Microfine+ demi


    If you are finding it difficult to dose your Caninsulin with what you have, these are the syringes for caninsulin

    Caninsulin Syringes U40

    VetUK does ship to europe, other members have used it, in finland and Slovenia, that I recall, because they couldn't get certain supplies in their country (it's not just Spain and the Canaries) I would show the pharmacist, pictures on the web, I've found all the local pharmacists to be extremely sympathetic and helpful, my local lady, always keeps a couple of packets of the BD microfine demi in stock for me. (even though george has been in remission)

    If you can't get the insulin syringes, but want/need to be able to dose more acurately, get the BD microfine+ demi but you will need to remember to use a conversion for the graduations.

    Hope all that makes sense.
     
  64. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Hey Lori When I saw the pic of your little panther Sabrina, she reminded me of another little panther, BK, a legend round here, especially on the Lantus forum. Sadly BK went to the rainbow bridge a little while back, but not before beating FD and remaining in remission for 6.5years.
    So I just wanted to share his story with you, here is Sandy's last post but in it she shares a tribute video where you can see some before and after pics, BK turned up on her doorstep in quite a state, her vets (in us) also recommended Euthanasia.
    The vid makes me smile and cry.http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-23-black-kitty.220786/
     
  65. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I eased off on the Hover Mothering a little. Even before she got sick, she liked to be by herself and had her favorite hiding spots. One of them is in the wardrobe, she's currently on the bottom shelf (with the door slightly open) so it's easy for her to come and go as she pleases and gives her her space. I have the litter box a short distance outside of the wardrobe so she doesn't have to go too far. The other cats don't bother her in there but when she wants their company she will come out and cuddle with them. She's been purring and making little chatty noises so she seems happy enough. I bet she can't wait until she's back jumping up on the cupboards and fridge again, and I can't wait to see it again either. I know that's a long way in the distance but she will get better and better every day.
     
    Shellcat and Gill & George like this.
  66. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    My diabetic foster cat got there in about 6-8 weeks. Then he started to eye jumping from the floor straight up to the top of the 6 foot tall bookshelves. Scared me to death. :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  67. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    That's what she used to be like, she was such a high jumper. She would launch right from the floor to the highest spot she could find. She loved spending the day sitting up there and looking down on the rest of us, haha. I really do hope it's weeks away before she gets some of her mobility back. Right now, she rests a lot but gets energy bursts throughout the day where she walks around for a bit and sometimes climbs up on the bed. I think she already looks a tiny bit steadier on her back legs.
     
    Gill & George and Deb & Wink like this.
  68. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    That's great.

    How have you got on with the Spread Sheet? managed to download it? Do you need help with it?
    If you have it set up do you think you could share it on your signature?

    How have the ear pokes been going? any luck getting a reading?
    I forgot to mention, if you do place an order from zooplus or anywhere else, look for some freeze dried treats to use a treat for the ear pokes.
    I've used Cosma snackies and Orijen freeze dried treats, George goes crazy for them. (zooplus.es don't stock orijen anymore, but I have used Miscota.es, not as reliable as zooplus with their deliveries)
     
  69. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    How has Sabrina been the last 2 days?
     
    Gill & George likes this.
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Briniweenie, Please remove your time zone and country from your user "signature". I mistakenly asked for you to include that info and it should not be there. Thanks and apologies for the confusion.
     
  71. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Sorry I haven't updated in the past few days. We had difficulty getting the ear pokes but we got one tonight. It was 388, but maybe we didn't do the test at the right time/too soon after eating. We had been trying to get a reading for days and tonight was the first time we got one with enough blood for the meter to read. My husband's machine is a One Touch Select Plus, so I don't know how good or bad it is either. I looked at the lists posted here and didn't see that model on them. I suppose the other thing we can do is take ours to the vet when she goes for a checkup and compare theirs to ours. They use an animal meter, so I do know the readings can be slightly out when using a human one, but I don't know how accurate my husband's is, but he does get normal readings for his own tests. I just don't know how it could have gone up, unless our timing was wrong when we finally got a successful reading. I wish we could have gotten more readings apart from this one to go on.
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  72. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    It can be very different, I wouldn't even bother checking it won't tell you anything, your vet will try to get you to buy the petmeter, the strips will be expensive and it's an unnecessary expense. You can use a human meter to keep your cat safe when administering insulin, until fairly recently petmeters for home testing were not widely available. Also bear in mind that the dosing methods and guidance on this site all reference human meters, since there is no way of converting numbers from a pet specific meter, to a human meter (there is no formula) I would recommend sticking to a human meter.

    It requires a fairly large sample size at 1microlitre,. I think you will find the one's recommended on the list (I haven't looked in ages) require smaller sample sizes, making it easier to get a test, especially in the beginning when the capillaries don't give up much blood and when you are still learning.

    The pharmacy in my town just gave me one FOC ( a Freestyle Freedom lite), with 10 free strips to get me started, they didn't have any to sell as such. I just told them it was for my cat, but if you thought that was not going to get you anywhere, just say your Hubbie needs a new monitor and you would like to try a different one, see which ones they have and whether there are any on the list.
    The freestyle freedom lite is very easy to use, has a tiny sample so very easy to get a reading, my friend/petsitter uses this one when she looks after my guy for me and has no trouble, I use a different one usually (cheaper strips)

    How is Sabrina feeling?
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  73. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I use a One Touch Ultra (w/B\GenUltimate strips since genuine One Touch Ultimate strips cats about the same as AlphTrak stripps) strips since for two of my cats. It requires 1uL. In the past I have used a meter that require 3uL. It depends it you cat is a bleeder.
     
  74. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    She's not a bleeder, the vet had said something to us about that when she did the test during last Monday's checkup, that she was difficult to get blood from. In fact, we poked her about 8 times. One test read as "error" and we wasted a couple more strips trying to get enough blood for the meter to register it. It was 326 the last time, about 4 hours after her shot. We're running out of strips but have enough for today. My husband gets the strips and meter for free from the nurse at the medical center because he is diabetic. He doesn't remember when they replaced his old meter last, but maybe it's time for an update. Could be the more current ones require less blood.

    She had a bad day on Friday. She was in a bad mood. She swatted at me a couple of times while I was trying to clean her eyes. Her eyes are a bit runny, and sometimes when she eats, she buries her whole face in the food and makes a mess. So I clean her face throughout the day and that day she wasn't having it. She's not an aggressive cat, she's normally quite relaxed. So I thought something must be off if she's acting like that. I also comb her out a few times a day, and clean her bum because she's not feeling well to do these things for herself.

    I noticed she hadn't done a poo all that day, she usually goes in the morning and at night but she hadn't gone in the morning. I put her in the box a few times, she wouldn't go. Later that night, she ended up pooing all over herself and her blankets. She couldn't get up to go and I felt terrible. While she did pee on herself a few times during the first few days of her diagnosis, she hadn't peed on herself most of the week and she had never not gotten up to poo until that day. Up until then, it looked like she was making improvement to her movement . On Saturday, I noticed neuropathy in her front legs, which she didn't have before. So it's very disappointing to think that she's getting better, only to see she's having set backs. We got different needles, they are still U100s but they say "insulin" on the side. We have 1 left, so I'll take a photo of it before we use it later. We have other needles but my husband bought a couple of these ones from a different pharmacy to see if they were any better than the ones we had.

    She seems okay today, she's walking better, the front legs aren't bending. She takes a few steps, rests, takes a few steps, rests. But she is able to get around better today and she made a few happy meow noises and purred this morning, something I hadn't heard for a couple of days. She looks better than she did the past couple days, but I am worried about her. She's still eating a lot, she eats about 5 or 6 tins of food a day, for the most part they are 100g each, but she also ate some that were 75g. But she has a healthy appetite and she doesn't act as thirsty as she used to. But she's still very thin.

    She is due for a checkup tomorrow but we can hold off if we want to but I am curious as to how much weight she's put on.
     
  75. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Do you think she may be a bit dehydrated? Testing for that here.
    "These include listlessness, refusal to eat, panting, sunken eyes and dry, tacky gums. A good test to see if your cat is dehydrated is 'skin tenting'. To do this, take a pinch of skin around her shoulders and gently pull it up - if she is adequately hydrated it should ping straight back into place."

    If you have a scale you use to weigh yourself (lots of women do), then hold her in your arms, let her down, note your weight and subtract to get an approximate weight for Sabrina.

    2 steps forward, 1 step back, 2 steps forward, 1/2 a step back............................................... You are doing the sugardance with Sabrina. Give it time.
     
  76. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    We have been checking the skin around her shoulders and noticed an improvement. I don't have scales at home so I guess we'll take her for a checkup tomorrow and see what's up. I don't want to take her back there tomorrow but I want to know how much weight she's put on this past week. She still feels pretty bony but she eats often. Without being able to get regular ear pokes, it's hard for us to monitor her as often as we would like. She seems better today but those two days she had made me feel so heartbroken for her. We are going to try another ear poke before her last shot of the day, hopefully it's successful and won't take 8 attempts.
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  77. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Slow and steady on the testing. Double poke close together to get a larger blood drop. Give the blood drop time to form and be big enough for the Onetouch to read. It takes a big blood drop, 1 microliter.

    Try looking in this document for an idea of the blood drop size. Could not copy only the blood drop sizes. http://main.diabetes.org/dforg/pdfs/2017/2017-cg-blood-glucose-meters.pdf
     
  78. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    A dozen pokes for the pre-shot test and not one of them produced enough of a blood drop. I'll have my husband ask at the medical center if there's a meter that requires a smaller drop. It could be that this is the only model they issue for free, but it's super handy to get free strips too. If it comes down to it, I'll ask the pharmacy what they've got. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just something that doesn't need as much blood. It's hard because we're juggling finances as it is. We want to buy B12 for her too and another blood tester is an extra expense when we have a perfectly functional one, but this one just isn't working for Sabrina. It's very frustrating.
     
  79. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Hi I'm sorry your girl had a bad day, sometimes it can be a case of one step forward two steps back, I hope that it was just a glitch and that she starts to feel better.
    Have the vets looked at her teeth? What have they said about them?
    Has she ever had them cleaned? wondering if a tooth infection, might be at the root of her problems.
    If they haven't mentioned them and you take her in today, ask them directly what they think of her mouth?

    When you mentioned the watery eyes, and the pooey mess, I'm just getting flashbacks of George a couple of years ago, he started off being iffy, coat unkempt, dandruff, BG went up from normal (he was in remission at the time) then watery, slitty eyes, then went off his food (he's a very good eater, never says no to food). My regular/local vet run some bloods to the lab, nothing conclusive, so she just wanted to wait and see, wouldn't give me anything, blood tests didn't show signs of infection, but apparently that is not uncommon with teeth infections.
    Anyways he got worse even had a couple of mini seizures, and I decided to go for a second opinion to a vet over an hour away who had treated another of my cats for a rather serious gunshot wound. By this point I was suspicious at any rate that it was Georges mouth.
    Well the second vet said George had a hideous mouth infection/gingivitis, and wondered why I wasn't giving him AB's, to which I responded 'Other vet said there was nothing to be done, and had refused to give me AB's when I had asked'
    Also he asked me why he hadn't had his mouth cleaned ...'Well other vet said the risks of the dental outweighed the benefit to George' To which he said, we either do a dental, or we will loose this cat.

    Long and short, George was started on AB's anti inflammatories for pain, then once infection had cleared with the AB's he went in for dental. Had a lot of teeth removed he just has his canines and a couple of molars, but he recovered well from his op and is still with me now, a very senior kitty at the age of 20.

    When I nest saw my regular vet, she asked me how George was, I said fine, I took him to see Dr M, and he had a major dental, lots of teeth extracted and now he is fine. To which she replied, well yes his mouth was a mess. I had to bite my tongue, I was so furious, she knew what the problem was but didn't discuss it with me, basically she didn't feel competent to do the dental and have a good outcome so she just didn't tell me he had teeth problems, I would have had much more respect for her had she said to me 'It's his mouth, but I don't want to operate because of x,y,z'
    Sorry for the long story, but just wanted to illustrate, that over here, sometimes they might not give you all the information, for fear of upseting you, especially if they feel that there isn't anything they can do to help, and can be reluctant to refer you on to someone that might, for fear of losing your custom.




    Sure the meter I use is 1ul, but George bleeds sufficiently, and I've had a lot of practice, my friend/petsitter struggles with that so she uses the Freestyle Freedom lite finds that much easier.:)
    Have you read the tips on home testing? take a look at the videos on how folk test, I found that watching the videos of different people doing the testing really helped me when I started out. Everyone has a slightly different 'style' so something might just click for you, it did for me when I watched the videos. We all struggle at first.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
    Here's a link to a picture of the part of the ear you need to try to aim for.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/images/laur_danny_famoussweetspot.jpg

    This post by Marje covers a lot of the salient points
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/testing-and-shooting-tips.85113/#post-1377750

    What gauge are the needles you are using for the poke? (they come in different sizes if the one your hubby gets fine then that might be the issue) new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed; then progress to a 31g or 33g which are finer. ( I use a 29, but I have a 28 for my petsitter, again it gives her a bit more blood to play with and that's easier.
    Really do the ear warming thing, I use my hands (I always have very warm hands) and I just tickle George and warm his ears with my hands, he loves me messing with them, but you can use a warmed rice sock. I know if I fail to warm Georges ears up, I will not get enough blood for a poke.
     
  80. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    We just got back from the vet,we went in the evening and had the 2nd vet. She still wants to put Sabrina to sleep. Sabrina hasn't made any improvement in the past week. Her weight is the same, her BG is the same. It was 386, so it looks to me that that's the high and low numbers because they are more or less 324 or 386 when we have managed to get a drop. The vet said to increase the dosage to 4 notches and to call her if the reading is too low. I know her dosage was very low before but I am pretty nervous about upping it, but clearly the small dosage isn't enough for her. She did check her teeth today and said there wasn't any problem, but I know how she feels about Sabrina and us wanting to continue with treatment too. I'll take it with a pinch of salt for now.

    My husband has two lancets in his case, but they are both the same.

    Here is the syringe that we've got now. It's a U100 and she told us to increase it to 4 notches. 20200210_195029.jpg 0053-1000Wx1000H.jpg
     
  81. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    That syrine looks like a 1ml syringe that is marked every unit like this one
    https://us.bbraunoem.com/en/products/b/omnifix-syringe-f1mlls.html
    It is not really an insulin syringe since insulin syringes include a non removable. Your syringe is OK but you really can't constantly draw the same dose. Using 3/10 ml (30 units) human syringe would be better. You can likely get those in Spain marked in 1/2 unit intervals. The human insulin syringes would be less expensive than the syringe/needle shoin the in image. Increasing to 4 notches (0.04ml) would be 1.6 units oy your U40 Caninsulin.

    When was the 365 measured in relation to the time you gave the previous shot.
    Same for the 324 that you obtained at home.
     
  82. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
  83. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I have no objection with increasing to the 4 mark wihinis 1.6 units of Caninsulin. It would be helpful to get a BG right before feeding and shot and then about 5 hours after shot. About 5 hours should be the lowest BG for Caninsulin.
     
  84. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Pre-shot reading is 335. I'm going to try getting a spreadsheet set up now. I think or hope we got the magic spot on her, it only took two pokes this time and the first one was our mistake because the meter wasn't turned on first. Second poke, got blood right away. Got two nice drops from each. Hopefully testing will go much smoother from now on.
     
    Patty & Teal'c and Shellcat like this.
  85. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Ok, I got the spreadsheet set up (I think) but it wouldn't let me input the info at the top but all that info's in my sig anyway. There were no issues to report with the insulin increase. I have several bills that have to be paid this week (phone, car insurance, water bill) but I should have that taken care of in a few days. Once that's out of the way I'm going to order B12 to help with her neuropathy. I know it has to be methyl and has to contain no sugars/fructose, etc, yes? It'll probably be much cheaper to order the syringes too. I'm trying to do everything I can to help her, it's just at the moment we are juggling finances like crazy so I can't always buy things immediately but I should be able to order a few things by the end of the week.

    I just feel bad that the dosage the vet told me to give her last week wasn't enough and she got worse, and the vet we saw last night still doesn't think she can be saved. It makes sense now though, why she was feeling so down towards the end of the week. Without being able to get regular ear pokes I had no idea where we were really at, but that was last week, this week will be better.

    Should I continue in this thread, start a new one, or should I be moving over to the Caninsulin section now? I'm still new to all of this :)
     
  86. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Still new, you may stay here in the Feline Health forum for a bit longer.

    If you start a new thread, please link this one into the top. At the very beginning. So we have some history to follow.

    Eventually, you should move over the the Caninsulin ISG forum. But we usually don't suggest that until people are more successful with the home testing, low carb food, good insulin.

    Understand on the financial situation. Most of us here are in the same boat. Trying to bail a leaky boat with a tin can, and one foot over the hole in the bottom of the boat. :facepalm::(:eek:
     
  87. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I'm really worried now, her BG keeps going up. It was 439 for her pre-shot reading. None of her other readings have been that high before, but it wasn't until this week did we manage to start getting more regular tests. We are doing at least twice a day, and have tried more. We try to get at least 4 tests a day but sometimes too much time passes between when the blood drop forms and the machine turns off, and sometimes we try to take it too quick and it doesn't read. So we've had as many failed readings as we have successful ones. I don't really know if she's ever been in the 400s before but I don't think so. Her readings keep going up and up instead of down and it's really freaking me out. She seems to be doing better but the BG tells me otherwise. I don't know what more we can do that we aren't doing already.
     
  88. Shellcat

    Shellcat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2019
    I'm still pretty new myself, but...439 is high, yes, but don't freak out. Weenie can 'Feel' you freaking out and it stesses her too, and that affects her BG. My Mr. has been over 400 lots more than under 200. Keep doing what you're doing. Relax. Put on your favorite song and Jam Out or watch some Kitty Videos on YouTube. Just get your mind to calm down. I've been frustrated plenty myself. It does get easier. You got this. It takes time and I've found the more I'm stressed out about it, the more difficult it is.
     
    Krystina & Nelli and BriniWeenie like this.
  89. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    If the meter turns off, can you turn it back on with the strip still inserted? I don't know that meter, but on mine, if it goes off before I get the drop ready, I can hit a button and it comes back on, ready to go. You might want to do a dry run, let it turn off, and see if there's a button that will turn it back on.
     
  90. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I'll have a look at the meter and see if there's a button to reactivate it because that's happened more than a few times already, wasting strips and also having to poke again. That and sometimes the blood drop isn't quite enough for the meter to read. Other times she will flick her ear or move her head, causing the blood to drip off or rub into the hair on her ears. Maybe she is sensing stress/anxiety off of us too. It was a shock to see it in the 400s and of course I don't want to do anything to cause her BG to spike. The ear pokes are still something we're getting used to and sometimes they go super easy and other times they don't. I know it eventually gets easier once you get into the groove, it just feels like a lot of fumbling around right now.
     
  91. albertresidence

    albertresidence Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    @BriniWeenie, ...Let me start of with that I'm so proud of you for being Sabrina's advocate and fighting for your girl despite of what your Vet's original opinion was. I know that animal welfare and care is different in each country. I'm German, living in the US with my husband, we are retired Military. Part of my family lives in Spain six month out of the year for the past 33+years.

    I'm new to FD myself even though I've been doing Kitty Rescue work since 2007 her in the US. Never had a diabetic Foster Kitty before. Everything I was told how to treat Edith's diabetes by the Vet when I took her in December 8th, 2019 was so wrong. Well, I didn't know until I was on my mission to educate myself about the new endeavor about FD and I found this board. FDMB was a blessing to me and Edith!

    You are on the right track, you are the captain on Sabrina's ship along with your hubby and her feline friends and we are here to support you all the way!
     
    BriniWeenie and Shellcat like this.
  92. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Lori you are dong a great job looking after Sabrina. It takes time for any real improvement to be seen. Don't let the vets put you off looking after her. Try not to worry about the higher numbers. Sheba was in really high numbers for weeks and weeks and she eventually came down to the lower numbers.:bighug:
     
    BriniWeenie likes this.
  93. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    We've been rescuing cats since about 2004 and Sabrina is my first diabetic cat too. She and her brother have been with us since 2005, since they were kittens.

    We just did another pre-shot test and it's down to 395. There were only 3 strips left so it was important that this test not end up turning into another fiasco. The lancet was turned down to 4 this time, it might have been set too high before. Got a nice big drop in one poke. My husband has an appointment with the nurse in the morning to get more strips and lancets so those will be restocked tomorrow.

    I was also looking into switching to human insulin somewhere down the line. It seems I can just ask for it at the pharmacy without a prescription, so it is something I will consider for the future. Especially if this vet continues to badger us into putting Sabrina to sleep and it's going to be like this every time we take her in for a checkup. She's going to see the spreadsheet and give me that disapproving look like she did last week.

    The one vet has known us for a few years. One of my oldest cats died last summer, he had liver disease. He was about 17/18 and lived a good long life. But he was in pain and I knew it was his time, so when she had that talk with us regarding him, I knew it was the right thing to do. So I'm not in denial about Sabrina if that's what she thinks, I have no history of being a difficult client. Well, not until now anyway, ha!
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  94. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    If you live in Canada you can get Lantus over the counter......oh I see you live in Spain, so I have no idea if it is freely available there.
    Lantus is a MUCH better insulin for cats than caninsulin and Sabrina may well do very well on it. Definitely worth thinking about soon.
    Just say to the vet.....'please do not keep telling me to put Sabrina to sleep. That is not an option at the moment'.
    Did the vet check to see if Sabrina is dehydrated? Some SubQ fluids would help if she is dehydrated..
    The dandruff and the dry fur are very much signs of a diabetic cat. Those things will improve greatly once you can get on top of things.
    Just make sure she is eating and drinking well and getting her insulin. And keep up the good work with the SS
    Are you testing for ketones?
     
  95. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I think I can get Lantus without a prescription here, I did a bit of googling, but unsure of the current price. The list I saw was a bit outdated, but it's good to know I can buy it over the counter. I haven't tested for ketones yet either, I need to get the strips. Every time I go to the pharmacy I forget to ask for something. They didn't even have separate needles to sell me at the one I went to the other night. I left there thinking, "What kind of pharmacy doesn't sell needles?" but that's pretty typical of my everyday life here. :p Maybe I'll be a bit luckier if I went to the pharmacies in the tourist areas, they might be better stocked.

    Her appetite is good, she's drinking water regularly and isn't acting like she's constantly thirsty anymore. However, it's very disheartening that her BG was high, when outwardly she looked like she was doing better. She still has dandruff, I comb her out gently a couple of times a day and her nails feel dry.
     
  96. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Please make the effort to get the Ketostix or Keto-Diastix from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones. It is very important you do this. Especially in the beginning when the BGs are high.
    That is very good her appetite is good.
    Just keep doing what you are doing and you will get there. Her BGs won’t come down overnight and the dandruff won’t go away quickly either. So try not to dwell on those things. Concentrate on making sure she is eating and drinking well, testing before every shot and inbetween shots, giving the insulin, testing the urine for ketones and looking into getting Lantus.
     
  97. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
  98. BriniWeenie

    BriniWeenie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    I'm in Lanzarote.

    The nurse gave my husband a new monitor today, it's a Contour XT, but he has to make an appointment with the doctor to get the strips put on his prescription. He has some to get started, though. He said he might get the strips for the One Touch added to his prescription instead of this new device. We haven't tried it out yet, so I guess we'll figure out which one works better for us on Sabrina. This time, the nurse didn't ask for the old monitor back so now we have two. I think the big difference was the setting the gauge was on because the last pre-shot test went pretty drama-free too.

    He said he asked the pharmacist about Ketostix but I think he must have asked for the wrong thing because she said they cost €70. I thought it was something like 50 strips for €10? Bah, I should have written it down for him.
     
  99. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Oh Lanzarote, my Isla Bonita. I worked there in 1986 in Puerto Del Carmen, and then there in 1987, 1989 when I also fed many homeless cats every day. Last time I was there in 1998. The owner Toni of restaurant Capri in Puerto Del Carmen is my old old friend since 1986.
    Not the most populous island and the few towns spread out. So I see that you are having a hard time.

    What if you tried to get the Urine Ketones test strips on prescription too from the vet? Would that help the pharmacist and give a lower price? In Sweden, which is member in EU, the brands are called Keto-Diabur-Test 5000, 50 strips, and Keto-Diastix, 50 strips, see picture.
     

    Attached Files:

    BriniWeenie likes this.
  100. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Ann is a work traveler and has lived so many places in the world. She is a good resource and we love that she is here helping people and their diabetic cats.

    p.s. Simba and Gustav enjoy their valentine flowers and cards?
     

Share This Page