Sam - Month 11

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Djamila, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Previous thread

    Well, month 11 is starting with Sam in the middle of what I think is a pancreatitis flare. He snuggled close all night (he only does that when he's sick) and hissed/smacked Atticus if he dared to try to get on the bed during the night. At one point I reached down to pet him and he bit me. He wanted to be close, but on his own terms.

    I started him back on the cerenia two days ago when he started looking off and sitting meatloaf style in strange places again. With how grumpy he's being, I'm wondering if should look into something for pain? I believe Bupe is usually recommended with pancreatitis, but after his extractions he stayed awake for 30+ hours after a shot of it, so I'm hesitant to try it again. I still have some of the bupe (0.15mL) that the vet sent us home with after the dental. Is there something else that could be used? Or should I try a partial dose of the bupe? Whole dose? Also it's almost four months old. Is that too old to use?
    @Marje and Gracie @Teresa & Buddy any thoughts either of you have on this (or anyone else) would be greatly appreciated!

    Thankfully he's still eating well and not vomiting, though he's being picky about which food he wants. Since I have a whole menu of options for my easily-bored, slightly spoiled kitties he was able to find something he wanted without too much trouble.

    Hoping this resolves quickly!
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Poor Sam. :( I was given oral liquid buprenex/buprenorphine for Willow (.1 ml dose every 12 hrs) after dental extractions and again after she had a ruptured anal sac. The prescription bottle they put the pre-filled syringes in says it is good for a year.

    Willow had no issues on the oral at all, but Mia was given a very long lasting (72 hour) shot after her extractions, and she was 'weirded out' for a couple of days. I am sure part of that was from having the procedure/being left at the vet, but I really believe the shot also played a role. It may fall under the category of 'every cat is different', but I think I will shy away from them getting that long lasting shot in the future and just ask for the oral liquid.
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Have you used the oral liquid with Mia? Did she get weirded out from that too? Or just from the injection? I've wondered if the reaction might be different, but I've been hesitant to try it.
     
  4. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    You should not get a reaction from the oral bupe, like you did from the injection of bupe. I would give him the oral bupe, maybe give him 1/2 dose to see how he reacts.
    You must control nausea and pain, for Sam to get to feeling better. With cerenia you can give him 1/4 of a pill twice daily. I have been giving Buddy hemp, this seems to help him more than anything. I have had so much trouble getting Buddy to eat I started letting him eat what he wants, which is MC wet food and Dr. Elsey's dry food. Tag me any time, I am sorry that it took me so long to reply.
     
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  5. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    No, Mia has not had the oral liquid. That's why I was saying it may fall under the category of every cat is different. I am comparing Willow's reaction to the oral liquid with Mia's reaction to the long-lasting shot - not ideal, but it's all I have at this point, and based on that, I think the shot makes them 'off' (and HUGE pupils for almost three days), and the oral does not.
     
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  6. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I second the hemp. The FLUTD group I’m in suggested hemp oil both for IBD and pancreatitis.
     
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  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Teresa! Okay, I tried to give him a half dose, but I'm not sure how much he actually got since he wiggled and I ended up squirting more than half, though I don't think all of it got in his mouth. I'm hoping he got at least some of it. He definitely did some smacking and face licking, so some of it got in. Not the most precise way to measure a dose ;) but the best I could do for now.

    Thanks FurBabiesMama! I guess I just have to try it and see how it goes. Fingers crossed it helps him relax a bit (assuming he actually got it).
     
  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think I was optimistically hoping that his first round of pancreatitis would also be his only round of pancreatitis. But assuming that's what's going on, and it's only a month later, I'll look into the hemp. I can't imagine if he has to go through this every few weeks. He looks pretty awful this morning.
     
  9. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I’ve actually had cats get a reaction to too much oral bupe. My kitten did at the prescribed dose the vet gave us afte her spay. She also wouldn’t sleep.

    @Djamila I would try a half dose and see if it helps. You can always then increase it to 3/4 dose if he needs a little more.
    See if your vet put the expiration date on it but I hope they wouldn’t have given you something which was about to expire.

    Cerenia is usually dosed at 1/4 of a 16 mg tablet once daily. I am not aware of any research that supports bid dosing of cerenia but perhaps @Teresa & Buddy has something? I would ask my vet for ondansetron which is great for nausea and works well with cerenia. Ondansetron can be dosed every 8 hours.

    I’d also talk to the vet about subq fluids. They can really help as long as he does not have any heart issues.

    Sending many vines and hugs.
     
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  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I've given Teasel oral bupe for cystitis pain, Djamila. He did get a little spacey but it was only for a couple of hours. I mentioned it to the vet and she told me to reduce the dose. Fine after that.
     
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  11. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I use Ondansetron & Cerenia, I do use more Ondansetron than Cerenia. I do use these together sometimes. Buddy's vet likes Cerenia the best, she says that Cerenia has anti-inflammatory properties, she also says if needed to use 1/4 of a Cerenia pill twice a day. Some doc's say you can only use Cerenia 5 days in a row, but she says that you do not need to go off Cerenia for 2 days, then start up again taking Cerenia when the 2 days are over.

    Buddy's vet gave him an injection of Bupe that is to be used after surgery, and he did not sleep for a long period of time, he also was acting strange. The liquid bupe that I get in syringes that is put in the mouth has never bothered Buddy and we have used a lot. The only thing the liquid has ever done to Buddy was for him to go to sleep.

    I am hoping Sam is feeling better and you do not need any of these things. Buddy has really shown to be feeling better since he started taking the hemp. I use very little bupe these days. If you need me please let me know.
     
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  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone so so so much for sharing your thoughts on all of this. It's so hard to see him this unhappy, and I really appreciate all of your help and presence as I learn a new part of this journey.

    I don't know if it was the bupe, being sick, or just being a cat, but he slept or half-slept all day. At any rate it didn't make him stay awake with wide, dilated eyes like the injection did, so I'm at least happy about that. And the vet prescribed some more for me that I can pick up tomorrow since I only have a couple of doses. I think I'll stick with the half-doses for another time or two since that seemed okay.

    He ate his +9 snack without prompting, but I had to call him to come for dinner. He ate well though. It's probably the first time I've ever had to call him to come eat. He's usually sitting on the counter waiting for me at food times.

    @Marje and Gracie Do the sub-q fluids help it clear up faster? He doesn't seem dehydrated at all - scruff snaps back quickly, peeing, bled easily at test time...But if it will get him over this flare faster, it's worth considering!

    He isn't seeming improved tonight, but I'm just so glad that he's still eating! And again, thank you all a million times for your help!
     
  13. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I totally agreee with this. I had Gracie on cerenia for six months without stopping. But I’ve seen nothing about dosing it twice a day and I’d love to see what your vet bases that on. I also have a great vet and she only doses it once a day.

    It just gives them extra support but I don’t have any scientific data that states it helps them get through the episode faster...but it might. Sometimes electrolytes can get out of balance with pancreatitis so subq fluids help with that. And although it isn’t an issue with Sam, for cats that vomit with pancreatitis, it helps keep them hydrated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  14. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    How is Sam feeling today. If he is sleeping that is good for him and if he ate his +9 snack that is also good. A lot of times I would need to give Buddy something for nausea and then an appetite stimulant to get him to eat anything. Sometimes he would not drink water or eat, then he would get dehydrated and need fluids.

    I know how heart breaking it is for us when they are sick, I know you are doing a good job taking care of him.
     
  15. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    He's looking a bit perkier this morning. He's still eating okay, though not with gusto. He really wants treats instead of food this morning. He kept walking away from his food and begging me for treats instead. Then I would put him back in front of his food, he'd take another bite or two, and beg for treats. I gave him a few and he devoured them, so I think he has an appetite, but wants to play on my sympathies to get extra treats. ;) I added some fortiflora to his food and that seemed to make him happy enough to eat and give up on the treats.

    He took a half-dose of bupe again last night (and this time I'm sure it got in his cheek pouch) and seemed to do fine. I'll give him another half-dose before I leave for work this morning. Thank you so much for checking in on us. When Buddy would have a flare, how long would it usually last?
     
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  16. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I felt the same way. Forget this breakfast, give me a donut! :)
     
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  17. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    It is really hard to tell, I have not seen you mention throwing up, are Sam's bowel's loose. If he does not have either of these, I would think that would be good for Sam. Buddy always gets loose bowels plus explosive bowel movements.
     
  18. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    The next time I take 1 of the cats in, I will try to remember to ask the vet about cerenia.
     
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  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    He started all of this with one round of diarrhea, but has been fine since then. And thankfully no vomiting.

    I had to go to work all day today, so I’ve just been watching him by the security cameras. So far Atticus and Sam have both just been curled up on the bed sleeping all morning. He did seem slightly better when I left than he did yesterday.

    And I agree about the donut! That does sound good!!!
     
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  20. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good for Sam and the donut too. Keeping my fingers crossed, sending healing vines and a prayer really helps.
     
  21. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    :bighug:Just catching up. I hope Sam's feeling even better tonight. I saw the hemp oil suggestion...would that be worth a try for pain/nausea? I hear good things.

    Chin scritches to Sam cat being pet.gif
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think this is going to be a bit of an up and down journey. Tonight he's nauseated (I think). He's sitting at his food dish licking his lips. He ate a little when I told him he needed to eat, but then stopped. He did come back a little later and eat a bit more on his own, so yeah for that.

    I'm not quite clear on the difference between Ondansetron and Cerenia. Aren't they both for nausea/vomiting? Is Ondansetron just stronger? Or do they do different things?

    Also, I'm moving up the dosing scale since his numbers are higher. Does anyone know of any threads/advice about dealing with dosing during pancreatitis? Is increasing in response to the numbers the right thing to do? It's what I did a few weeks ago, but that was just a gut response.

    And yes hopefully on the hemp oil. I'm trying to do a bit of research on it tonight and then will most likely order something to use as a preventative. It looks like we'll need to get through this flare with regular pharmaceuticals though.

    On a happier/sillier note: does anyone else find cat toys in the food dish? Atticus will carry around this little stuffed mouse like a security blanket. Then when he arrives at the food bowl, he'll drop it in the food bowl and eat around it. So I frequently come home to find the food gone and the stuffed mouse sitting there. Anyone else? Or just my weird kitty? o_O:cat::smuggrin:
     
  23. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I had a cat who always put his rubber ball and shoestring in his food bowl. My sister's cat puts things in his food bowl, too. She started giving him a paper towel that he now uses that to cover it. He takes it off later when he wants to eat more. :)
     
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  24. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Brat does this! They both love my hair elastics so they have one they can play with. Almost every morning I'll walk by their food and it will be sitting in it. Gross and cute at the same time!
    Also, I don't have any experience whatsoever with what you're dealing with in Sam right now, but I wanted to let you know I think of you both often and am SO grateful for you every day. I know it will all work out with the meds and I hope he feels better soon!
     
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  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    All three of my kitties have quirks but objects in their food bowl isn't one of them. :)
     
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  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Sam woke up with a good appetite this morning, and he jumped up on the counter all by himself (he hasn't been jumping the past few days). He did make a little groan when he jumped down, so I think the jolt was a bit much for him still. He's been doing well on the bupe, and taking the cerenia all by himself (I haven't had to pill him - he just eats it). His weight is down a couple ounces so I was glad to see him eat well this morning.

    Atticus has been grooming Sam while he's sick, so of course Atty threw up a hair ball during the night. :eek: On the bed. Thankfully he did it on the big towel at the end of the bed, so it was easy enough to scoop up the towel, toss it in the wash, and go back to sleep.

    And yes, the toys in the food bowl are both cute and gross. Especially since Atty eats raw food. I toss it in a bowl of hot soapy water fairly often and give it a good scrub, but I'm sure it's still just full of nastiness. :p This mouse is kind of like the Velveteen Rabbit - it doesn't have a tail or eyes anymore, and half of the fur has been rubbed/chewed off, but if I take it away from him he cries like a little baby. :rolleyes:
     
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  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad Sam is doing better and handling the bupe. Re icky cat toys: could you put them in one of those mesh bags for washing lingerie and throw them in the washing machine?
     
  28. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm....or maybe the mesh bag and the dishwasher? The dishwasher gets hotter, doesn't it? Of course if either option ruins the toy I'm going to be in big trouble!
     
  29. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yup - a ruined toy could be a disaster. :confused: My guys have a few catnip toys that are beyond disgusting because they slobber all over them. I take them away, let them dry out and put them out again another day. I wouldn't want to do a bacterial culture on any of them but so far the cats are fine! ;)
     
  30. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Happy to hear Sam is feeling better :)
    Beenie used to drop toys in the water bowl. Guess she wanted to wash the toys herself:p
     
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  31. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Michelle! Beenie clearly had better manners than my messy boys!

    Came home a few minutes ago and Sam is looking a little less spunky again. It does seem to wax and wane a bit. Still had enough of a spark to beg for treats, of course! :rolleyes:
     
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  32. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully that's a very good sign, Djamila! When Maury went through his mild flare, he started having a good day then a bad one for a little bit. Also, a bit late to the conversation but he didn't have any "stoned" effects from the oral Bupe :):bighug:
     
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  33. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Yong! He does seem to be overall improving. It's hard to know if I should give bupe when he's seeming better or not. I didn't yesterday, but then he seemed uncomfortable again last night so I gave him a little. I am wondering if I should give it regardless for a few days, or make my best guess about how he's feeling and give it based on symptoms?
     
  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think I'd give it based on symptoms so I could see if there is a positive improvement trajectory. Keeping him on it for several days might mask that.
     
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  35. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see that this question was ever answered.

    Cerenia was originally formulated for carsickness in dogs. It’s better at addressing vomiting but it’s been found to help with nausea in cats and also acts as an anti-inflammatory in cats. Ondansetron is a human drug commonly given to relieve nausea that results from chemotherapy. I find that it is the best drug for nausea; however, the two work really well together because they address nausea from different modalities which helps the kitty.

    Since you are shooting ProZinc, I’ll leave dosing to those who have experience with it.

    Hope he’s much better today.
     
  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Marje!
     
  37. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    You’re welcome!
     
  38. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Djamila
    Thinking of Sam:bighug:
    Hoping he’s feeling better.
     
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  39. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hi Michelle! Sam had a couple of good cycles and seemed to be feeling better, but then yesterday he took a little turn again.

    I worry about giving him bupe so much - I don't want to make him a little opioid addict! But I also don't want him sitting here in pain! I'm only giving him a little but still...

    How is Ming doing? And your vacation is soon, isn't it?
     
  40. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry he’s feeling a little crappy. It seems alot here use bupe and I haven’t heard of any that needed rehab:p

    Ming is doing better. Follow up ultrasound was normal! Yay!! Still trying to figure the right miralax dose:facepalm:. He’s back to dropping “milk duds”.
    Just need to find that sweet spot.

    We fly out tomorrow. Looking forward to it. I’ll check in when I get back.
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good news about the ultrasound. :) No to "milk duds". :confused: Wasn't it @Carol in Chicago that called them milk duds or raisinettes? Love that. I'm very lucky to have three who produce perfect cigars! ;) (anti jinx)
     
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  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Maybe post on the main forum about long-ish term use of bupe?
     
  43. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

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    Yep. I have a "take action" instruction from my vet in the event of either milk duds or raisinettes. Maybe there is a reason cigars are used for celebrations! :p
     
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  44. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I love cat people! You all make me smile! :joyful:

    Michelle, so glad to hear Ming is all clear now! Have a great vacation, and can't wait to hear about it when you get back!
     
  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well, based on observation and his numbers, it looks like Sam might be over with the pancreatitis flare. This is his third day without bupe. I still gave him some cerenia the past two days, but for the first time he didn't want it yesterday (he usually just takes it himself without being pilled). Today we'll go without it and see how he does.

    Last night Sam decided to play King of the Hill with my bed. Every time Atticus tried to hop on the bed he would chase him off, and then this morning they got in a loud scary fight right at shot time. So they are both now in solitary with Rescue Remedy laced treats until they've had some time to settle down. I'm sure my downstairs neighbor just loved being woken up by two screaming cats :confused:. I'll have to add some extra cookies to her Christmas goodie bag.

    Happy Sunday to everyone!
     
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  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good report! :smuggrin:
     
  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Sam got a lime green. He never does that! I think that might be his first "earned" reduction in about ten months :D
     
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  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    :eek::woot: His recent numbers are great, Djamila!
     
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  49. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm really pleased with the numbers he's been getting since the pancreatitis seems to have eased up a bit. Plus he's been super cuddly and playful and mischievous, and he's back to grooming himself again. All good signs. Shooting this much Prozinc on some of his pre-shots has made me a bit nervous, but he tends to use Prozinc like some cats use Lantus so I'm getting more comfortable with the shoot-low-to-stay-low model.
     
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  50. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well, we had quite the adventure today! Not long before t/f/s time, there was a gas leak discovered in the building across the street. The fire department set off the alarms in all of the surrounding buildings and we had to evacuate while the alarms were shrieking and the sirens were wailing in the street below.

    Thankfully, I have an emergency backpack with testing supplies, food for them and me and with other emergency supplies. So when the alarm started, I leashed the cats, put the backpack on, grabbed my keys, and the insulin, and we were out the door in no time at all.

    Just by luck, I had parked my car on the street instead of in the parking garage today, so we were able to walk down the street, hop in the car and drive away.

    Thankfully one of my neighbors who is known and trusted by my cats was also waiting on the sidewalk, so she was able to help me get them to the car. Since they were leashed instead of crated, that part could have gone terribly wrong if they had decided to fight me instead of cooperating. Sam walks on a leash pretty well, but I didn't quite trust that when he's terrified from all of the sirens. Atty doesn't leash walk at all. He freezes and flops over when I leash him which actually makes it really easy to carry him. So my neighbor took Atty and I took Sam and we all made it to the car.

    Then we sat in the car at a nearby park for a couple of hours until the leak was fixed and they would let us all back in the building.

    So a little bit of preparation (emergency pack), and a fair amount of luck (car parked outside and kind neighbor) got us through this little adventure.

    Needless to say, Sam's numbers were rather high tonight. Hopefully a good night's sleep will help settle him a bit.

    And if you haven't already, make sure you add extra lancets, syringes, extra meter, test strips, etc. to your emergency packs! You just never know...
     
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  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    OMG, Djamila! :eek: I don't know how I'd cope if this happened to me! Having an emergency backpack ready is a really good idea and that's something I CAN do.
     
  52. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    On my own, I'm not that organized of a person, but my parents work with the Red Cross and they are quite insistent that we have up-to-date emergency packs. Honestly I've been rolling my eyes about it for years, and frequently annoyed that part of my entry way closet is used to store this silly backpack! When I was living overseas I had to evacuate a few times for different crises, but here in the US it just seemed like a waste of closet space! Well, now I am grateful for their reminder every year to do the updates. I just added Sam's supplies in early November. They always remind us to update them around Daylight Savings Times (spring and fall).

    It wouldn't have been the end of the world if he had missed his shot time, but I was glad to be able to so easily keep him on schedule - especially when I saw how high he was!

    I have to store an extra meter and strips somewhere in the house, so in the backpack is as good a place as any!
     
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  53. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I have not read every post but the BUPE caught my eye. Noah has serious dental issues but cannot be anesthetized. He absolutely detested the oral no matter the flavor so he gets transdermal BUPE. He has been our little drug addict for a very long time, never has a problem with stairs. In fact he dislikes having his ears tickled more than having them poked. Tag me anytime for details.
     
  54. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I would also recommend doing a few fake emergency evacuations to figure out the best and fastest way to get you and your kitties out. I knew to leash them instead of try to crate them because I've had a few forced practices over the years. We have had a few fire evacuations in the building and I learned during the first two that I simply cannot get them in their crates when they are that scared. I've had to abandon them twice in order to evacuate and that is heart-wrenching. Not to mention how much damage it must do to their ears to stay in the building when those ear-shattering alarms are going off. Fire fighters are simply not willing to argue with you about needing more time to get your pets.

    The cats will however let me leash them. Atticus hides under the bed when the alarm sounds. I can reach under, latch his harness, and then just pull him out. When I put his harness on he'll just lay there like he's dead which makes him really easy to scoop up and carry. Sam will quite gladly run right down the stairs with me on his leash, so I can carry one and walk the other. Then I have to figure out what to do with them once we get to the street level, but at least we can get out of the building in a matter of seconds now.

    I've also toyed with the idea of getting some sort of large fabric pillow-case type things (but larger than a pillow-case) that maybe I could just toss over them and carry them down the stairs like Santa Claus with the bags slung over my back. They would of course completely hate that, but I think I would feel more secure about keeping hold of them. I know for a fact that when Sam really wants to he can get out of his harness, so I do worry about standing on the street with him only sort-of contained.
     
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  55. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Thanks, Dickson! So far he's done okay with the oral bupe, although I do find it challenging to get it in his cheek pouch and not just squirted into his mouth! It's nice to hear that Noah has been on it longer-term and is okay though. I have worried about the impact if these pancreatitis attacks keep recurring and he has to keep using it every few weeks.
     
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  56. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    You're very welcome. Noah is past his "best before" date but has a big heart, figuratively and literally. I dislike pain so sometimes I read too much into things but Noah has to eat with loose teeth. It's too long a story to post here. :bighug:
     
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  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I've had a look at Sam's SS and overall his numbers are better now than when you put him back on ProZinc. He is behaving like a different kitty than your earlier go around - a little more erratic and so on. I don't know if I'd be able to pinpoint a very recent issue as being the cause of his ups and downs, including those lime greens. He just seems to have adopted a new way of responding to ProZinc. It's possible that he has low grade pancreatic inflammation even between flares. I'm so used to looking at Teasel's SS that this section of yours isn't shocking to me. :confused:
     
  58. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    I accidently stuck my finger in Noah's BUPE spoon today. Not bad, like the icing mom used to make! :rolleyes::smuggrin:
     
  59. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Glad to hear that Noah does well on the bupe, Dickson! I worry about that too since Tigress is on it off and on more often these days. It's good to hear when kitties on it long term are all right!

    Djamila, I agree with Kris. Just looking over his SS, he's looking better than he was when he first got back on Prozinc. He has more greens and blues than he used to. I think the pancreatitis might be the issue...that'd be my guess at least. But there's really no way to be sure..

    What a scary day! I can't imagine having to evacuate like that.
     
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  60. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Noah only gets in the car for near emergency situations, he's never been in a crate. Another long story.
    Although he is a Caninsulin bouncer and is behind on having blood work done I don't see any ill effects. His vision is good, the other cats leave him be and best of all he eats and maintains his weight. I think God finally cut us some slack. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  61. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    A sturdy laundry bag might be good to keep on hand for a quick evacuation.
     
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  62. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    There's no way I'd be able to corral my 4 cats in a hurry. What the heck is bupe?
     
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  63. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    A painkiller.
     
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  64. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    @srk3cats BUPE is short for Buprenorphine. Depending on the dose and strength it can be very powerful. I've used it on a cat in his last days with cancer.
    From Google "Cats usually react negatively to opiates, but buprenorphine is an exception."
     
  65. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    When you used it on your cat with cancer, how did you administer it? Did your cat die peacefully at home with you? I suppose you need a prescription for it.
     
  66. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    That was Nigel, we administered oral at home. I can't remember the starting dose but in 48 hours we doubled the dose, then doubled it again. (He only vomited once) He knew where he was and who we were but seemed to lose a pound a day. Cynthia and I knew he was facing massive organ failure so we took him in. The vet was shocked, she thought he'd have another month. His cedar box is beside my bed.
    It is a prescription.
    This is not as morbid as it seems because Lewis, our most belligerent and dumbest cat spent days guarding Nigel. Would not leave his side.
    nigel_sick_lewis_002.JPG nigel_sick_lewis_004.JPG
     
  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    :bighug::bighug:
     
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  68. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    @Djamila I may have shown you this before. Don't know what's up with cats and sinks.:oops: Sam is mostly hair, it's a regular size sink. :D
    sam01.JPG
     
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  69. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes, I think I've seen the sink pic before - it looks like we nearly had the same sink! Unfortunately for my Sam, I had the sink replaced not long after the pic, and he doesn't like the new one - except for drinking out of the faucet, of course!

    Your photos of Nigel and Lewis are absolutely precious. What dear companions! I'm sorry he had to cross the bridge. You and Cynthia really are great caretakers for your fur babies!
     
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  70. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Thanks. It's probably pretty obvious by now that posting about Nigel brings out the best and worst in me. The worst being telling the same sad story over and over again. We've all had the smart cat/the big cat/the old cat but thumping the table and having Nigel jump up "You can poke me daddy, I know it's because you love me" was something special. They're all special.
    Looks like I just hijacked another thread. :banghead: :blackeye:
     
  71. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    No worries at all! I don't mind having my thread hijacked! Especially for Nigel. It sounds like he was a really special kitty and that the two of you had one of those rare bonds. Merry Christmas to you and Cynthia and all your kitties!
     
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  72. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Merry Christmas !! to you, Sam & Atticus.
     
  73. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Thanks, Teresa! And Merry Christmas to you and Buddy and Dinky and Old Guy and Kit Kat, too! I hope you've all had a peaceful holiday!
     
  74. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    A lot more peaceful than last year. Last year Buddy had been given prednisone on 12/20 to take more than 1 dose daily and he was really sick, but I could not find a doctor who would see him until the 12/26/16. On the 26th when he saw a vet, he was hospitalized for several days. That was a bad Holiday.

    I hope both of your kitty's are doing alright, also hope Sam has gotten over his pancreatitis.
     
  75. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Sam has seemed much better the past two weeks, although last night he was cuddled up against me all night again. That was what he did at the beginning of this last flare, so it has me a bit watchful this morning.

    I did start him on some CBD about a week ago, but he's still on a very very small dose so probably not very effective yet. How much do you give Buddy?
     
  76. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    :stop:An evacuation?!?
    Greens??o_O
    So much has happened. Hope you had a Merry Christmas!! Glad to see those greens and hope Sam continues to feel good:bighug::bighug:
     
  77. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Welcome back!!! How was the beach? Are you all tan and rested now? How are your fur babies? I hope you all had a great holiday!
     
  78. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    It was awesome!!! Yes tan and well rested. Its so darn cold here now and apparently its only going to get colder:arghh:
    Furbabies are good. Ming is still keeping me on my toes. Dropped a milk dud yesterday and today but is pooping and eating. Still trying to fine tune his Miralax dose. Pet sitter of course did totally fine. He just waited for his bean to come home to start up a little #2 drama. Other than that things are fine.
    A very happy new year to you and the boys!!!!
    New-Year-2016-with-border-e1450705415686.jpg
     
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  79. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Buddy takes Hemp Chews and it says not to give over 2 a day. I have been giving Buddy 1/2 of a chew in the morning and the other 1/2 at night. I am almost afraid to say anything, afraid everything will back fire on me. When Buddy started the chews he was taking Bupe, Cerenia or ondansetron and appetite stimulants. Every once in a while I think that maybe I should give him something to take besides the hemp and I will give him something for nausea, but that does not happen very often.
     
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  80. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Thanks so much @Teresa & Buddy! You're using the Rx Vitamins soft chews, right? So it looks like the dose is similar to what Sam is on now - so hopefully just a small dose like this is enough. I really wish he could talk. Sometimes today he's seemed off - like he isnt' feeling well. And other times he seems perfectly fine.

    @Beenie - So good to hear that Ming behaved for the pet sitter - although of course he acts up when you get home. Isn't that how they show they miss us? :rolleyes: And speaking of cold - we ended up with a white Christmas! First of all, it hardly ever snows here, but even less frequently on Christmas. It was so fun to wake up to a few inches of snow on Christmas morning! The kitties were not impressed. I kept opening the door to let them out on the balcony, but after a couple of quick steps, they were back inside and refused to go out again. They are so spoiled. :):cat::)
     
  81. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I hope you have as good luck as I have had with the Rx Vitamins soft chews. Sometimes I feel that way about Buddy, like something is wrong, maybe they are just having off days (I hope).
     
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  82. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Djamila! Snow! That's amazing for your corner of the world - here, not so much ... :confused: It's -27 C (-17 F) for me this AM.

    I hope your parents are on the mend. It's worrying for adult children.

    Re Sam: I think that if there's some chronic issue that waxes and wanes they can have good days, bad days and in-between days just like us. At least we understand these things. It's hard to see a pet go through it. :bighug:
     
  83. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Djamila, Did you find the right amount of CBD for Sam, do you think it is helping him. Buddy's Hemp started helping right away.
    I was happy to see Michelle's post to you, I miss her.
     
  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Unfortunately he's flared up again and is quite sick. I am increasing his dose of CBD slowly - it does seem to take the edge off the pain, but not quite enough so I've been giving him a small dose of bupe as well. Poor little guy looks awful. Thankfully he'll still eat if i put the food in front of him, but doesn't show much enthusiasm for it. He does still perk up for treats though. :) And he's being good about taking the cerenia. I hope I can find a dose of CBD that will stop him from getting sick so often. It feels like it's just one flare after another. :(
     
  85. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    One for you: :bighug: and one for Sam: :bighug:
     
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  86. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Oh No!! I am sorry he is sick again, I know how awful this can make you feel, when they are sick so often. Sending prayers and healing vines to you and Sam.
     
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  87. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Sending positive thoughts and also SOOOO much love to you and Sam both :bighug::kiss:
     
  88. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Thanks so much, Kris and Teresa, and Caitlin! He seems a little better today. He just asked for a snack, so that's a really good sign! First that he came out of the bedroom, and second that he wanted food. Hopefully he'll keep heading in the right direction!
     
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  89. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Teresa,

    I've got a special interest in feline pancreatitis / GI issues and I've never seen mention before of using hemp in this context. I'd be very grateful if you could share a bit more here or perhaps post some links so that I might be able to find out more about it, please?


    Mogs
    .
     
  90. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Djamila,

    What's CBD?


    Mogs
    .
     
  91. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    CBD is a cannabis product. The cannabis plants produce THC which makes you high and is toxic for dogs although appears to be okay for cats (still being studied so I wouldn't recommend it at this point), CBD which doesn't make you high and is the more medicinal side of things - it helps with inflammation, pain, anxiety, etc., and hemp which is legal in all 50 states. CBD and hemp are often used interchangeably although that isn't precisely accurate. Hemp is good for skin/hair care, and can be made into a lot of products (clothing, paper, biofuel....), but doesn't have the medicinal qualities of CBD.

    That's probably way more information than you needed.....:D
     
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  92. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    There is a Facebook group called Cats with Pancreatitis that has a number of people using CBD and you may find the group interesting. I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but Sam's first two pancreatitis attacks lasted close to two weeks. I started him on the CBD recently and this flare was only about four days.
     
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  93. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Djamila - Thank you for the info. I'll have to pass on the Facebook group because Facebook freaks me out (far too invasive).

    I'm really glad to hear that you've found something to minimise the duration of Sam's flares. Pancreatitis is the pits. :(


    Mogs
    .
     
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  94. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I just saw this and I am on my way to bed, 1 of Buds doc's wanted him to try this for year's of chronic pancreatitis. I am afraid to say very much, it might back fire.
     
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  95. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Hey @Critter Mom! Here's a link for some info on CBD oil (the one that I use for Tigress...not for pancreatitis though): https://www.cwhemp.com/. It's got some FAQs and whatnot for you to have more info. It's used for a lot of cats I know on a different FB group and some of the people there take it for anxiety too! By the way, it is SO good to see you again!
     
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  96. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
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  97. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I cannot tell you anything about Hemp, because I do not know. Buddy was @ the vet and she asked if I would like to try something that she was having really good luck with, of course I would, anything besides getting up 2 hrs earlier to give an appetite stimulant, something for nausea, a lot of times pain meds and anything that would help Buddy. What I use is Rx Vitamins for PETS Hemp RX Soft Chews, formulated by Robert J. Silver DVM, MS, CVA, if you want to get this from the mfg., and some web sites require a script from your vet. I have found this at a couple of sites that does not require a script from your vet. The only thing I can tell you is that Buddy is not the same cat since I started giving him the Hemp. I would also like to find out more about the CBD oil, however, most oils are not to be given to a cat, I do not know about CBD oil. I am
    familiar with pancreatitis since Buddy has had chronic pancreatitis for years. Having pancreatitis is bad news.
     
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  98. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    @Critter Mom - can I ask where you were living? (I didn't want to hijack Roberta's thread so I moved your quote over here :))
     
  99. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well, I decided to come home for lunch today because I have a terrible headache. Got here, took off my shoes, stepped inside, and stepped right on top of a chunk of raw turkey. Why can't these kitties leave their food in the bowl!?!? Finding chunks of raw meet around the house is NOT okay!!! :eek::rolleyes::cat:
     
  100. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    :blackeye::confused:o_O!!
     
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