Sam - Month 12

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Djamila, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Previous Thread

    Well, my sweet little sugar cat is starting this 12th month of his second round of diabetes by hiding under the bed and refusing to eat anything but treats. That and the higher numbers make me think we are in yet another round with the pancreatitis. Since one seems to lead into another, I'm thinking at this point it may just be chronic pancreatitis. I'll have to do some :bookworm::bookworm::bookworm: to find if there are clinical definitions for chronic vs.....episodes? attacks? acute?

    Anyway...he has an appointment with a new vet for the 15th. I like my vet, but want a second opinion at this point regarding his overall care since we are now dealing with a variety of issues.

    Yesterday was also shopping day with new insulin, a couple of new boxes of syringes, an order for more test strips and lancets....and of course a new catnip banana and feather toy. :cat: Feeling a little poor-er now. :blackeye:

    I do have one question for you all: Does anyone know how many carbs are in a vet bill? ;)
     
  2. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! That's awesome.

    A second opinion never hurts right? Who knows they may be able to give you some new ideas.

    I hate that Sam is having another attack...I'm so sorry Djamila. You guys have been going through it lately...these chronic illnesses are the absolute worst. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  3. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    :joyful::joyful:That video is priceless. Can I send Sam my mortgage bill?:p

    I hope the new vet had some ideas/treatment options for you:bighug::bighug:
     
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  4. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sam! :bighug::):bighug: I'm so sorry he's flaring again, Djamila. Plain old FD is hard enough ...
     
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  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much y'all! I'm so glad you are all in this with us!!!
     
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  7. PPCW

    PPCW Member

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    Awesome Sam! My Cory will love to meet him.

    EEDA6CE4-4C06-4E96-A072-1BC604A52943.jpeg
     
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  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is precisely why my rolls of toilet paper have to be stored in a covered basket instead of going on the wall roller. :confused:
     
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  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Mine too! When I got the bathroom remodeled a few years back I told the contractor not to even bother putting up the wall roller :p
     
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  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for all of that great information! I think it will be particularly helpful getting ready for the new vet visit next week. It's really helpful having so much in one place so I can reference it and make sure I get all of my questions answered. :bookworm:
     
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  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you found it helpful, Djamila. Just wish you didn't need it; pancreatitis is the pits. :(


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  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it really really is. :(
     
  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Djamila, one thing I didn't know in time about pancreatitis is that it can lead to secondary inflammation in other parts of the body, including the eyes (uveitis). Having learned about this in the worst way possible, I can't recommend strongly enough that any kitty with chronic pancreatitis gets their eyes examined regularly by a veterinary opthalmologist; doubly so if the kitty has any blood pressure problems.


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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    (((Djamila and Sam)))


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  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm ..... I wonder if that's why there are a few FD kitties here who have had eyes removed for non-cancer reasons.
     
  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. Glaucoma's another eye problem for diabetics.


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  18. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    @Critter Mom or @Teresa & Buddy, do either of you (or anyone else reading this) have any sense of how long it takes the anti-nausea meds to work? Sam takes cerenia, whenever he's having a flare-up, but this is the first time I've seen him so nauseated that he won't eat. He's had his pill and some bupe, but I'm wondering when it might kick in? He will nibble some freeze dried chicken, but has no interest in his regular food this morning.
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I can't help with this, Djamila. I have read on FDMB, however, that a Cerenia injection can pack a bigger punch. Teasel had that only once when he went off his food after I gave him HC gravy food for low BG. Vet visit - Cerenia injection - Cerenia pills for use at home.
     
  20. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kris. I've also been reading that ondansetron works better than cerenia, so it may be time to up our game around here. I usually only give him a half-dose of the bupe, but I think I might give the rest of the dose this morning. It looks like this round might be a whopper.
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are many fans of ondansetron on FDMB. Might be good to have in your arsenal. Have you tried cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant after giving antinausea meds? Not supposed to cause behavioural weirdness that mirtazapine can cause.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    My normal drill was:

    1. Check that constipation wasn't the cause of the nausea (based on regular monitoring of bowel movement frequency and vet examination). If yes, start with metoclopramide to help normalise GI motility (2-3 doses maximum was enough). In Saoirse's case, constipation-related nausea was the exception, not the rule.

    2. Cerenia injection from vet because in Saoirse's case it would get to work faster than pilling ondansetron (but for Saoirse ondansetron worked better than Cerenia). Also a B12 injection and, if the vet considered it appropriate, a 3-day amoxicyllin injection (with additional injections later till the course was completed). Often needed to assist feed by hand to keep food going in during this period. If mild pain suspected (based on crouching/hiding behaviours) would start on small dose of oral bupe at home (1-2x per day). If vet exam and/or clinical signs pointed to more marked discomfort would ask vet to give bupe injection followed by larger doses of oral bupe administered at home (2x per day for several days; 3x per day for first day or two if pain more severe).

    3. Start ondansetron 2mg q12h (10lb/4.5kg cat) following day, first dose c. 16-20 hours after Cerenia jab. (Can be administered 1-2mg q8-12h to a maximum 4mg/day for 10lb/4.5kg cat.)

    It can take 24-36 hours for ondansetron to build to full therapeutic effect, so some assist feeding may be needed.

    Note: I'm not sure whether ondasetron is available as an injectable for cats but maybe that might help it to start working faster than the tablet version (a possible alternative to starting with Cerenia?).

    4. Canned plain pumpkin added to meals to help prevent constipation (bupe and ondasetron can be constipating, not sure about Cerenia given longer term). Small amount of Miralax added to regimen if pumpkin not quite sufficient to make sure bowel movements were of right consistency and frequency.

    5. Fed every 3 hours normally, with 1-2 tsps water added to each mini meal. If hand feeding needed then smaller, more frequent 'coax' feeding was done, plus occasionally syringed a little water to help with hydration (using a plastic pipette as it's much easier to control the flow of water slowly cf. giving water using a feeding syringe).


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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    With the exception of the first flare when I hadn't a clue what to do to help Saoirse (nor what meds to request for her until Elise helped us) and she needed appy stimulants for a couple of weeks (and vet support was lacking in many respects), thereafter I only occasionally needed to give Saoirse a sliver of cyproheptadine to get her appetite going again after a stall but only if there was no response at all to the initial anti-nausea medication. The cypro seemed to have a synergistic effect with the ondasetron. (Had to discontinue using cypro when she started getting issues with high blood pressure. Note: cypro is contraindicated in cats with liver issues, hypertension, and glaucoma.)

    The advantage I found with the cypro is that its appetite stimulant effect isn't as strong as the mirtz and you can dose it more frequently (e.g. 1/8 4mg tablet q8h for 10lb cat). It gives much finer control over appetite stimulation in that you can give it exactly when and for just as long as it's needed. With mirtazapine one can end up with a food-crazed cat just after the dose was administered but then hit a period where the stimulant effect has worn off but it's too early to give the next dose.

    Mirtazapine is a horrible drug if it disagrees with you. It was prescribed for me and I had a really bad reaction to it. So did Saoirse.


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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    PS:

    (((((((Sam)))))))

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  25. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Can't help here, just sending :bighug: to Sam and @Djamila
     
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  26. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Djamila,
    I agree with Critter Mom, on everything she has said. You really need to get a script for Ondasetron, I give Ondasetron & Cerenia at the same time. Buddy has not been feeling well for a few days, he was not eating his wet food only kibbles. I noticed that whenever I would touch his back he winced or would hit at me. I started giving him Cerenia with his Hemp, because I was not for sure whether he needed Tramadol or Bupe, I never give Ondasetron with Tramadol. Well he needed the Bupe, Cerenia & Ondansetron. If I give these medicine it seems to help within 1 to 2 hrs., but I will need to give them again in 12hrs. Today, he is back to eating wet food, hopefully it will stay that way. If I were you I would be prepared to give Cerenia & Ondansetron along with pain meds. I try to nip Buddy's right away if possible. any sigh he may be not doing things as usual, I start giving meds to be on the offensive. Ondansetron is needed for nausea and Cerenia for inflammation, Cerenia is not an anti-inflammatory, but it has anti-inflammatory properties. Critter Mom has really good info.
     
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  27. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I am really sorry Sam is feeling bad again. I know how hard this is on you. Last night @ PMPS, Buddy was @ 313, I did not get up during the middle of the night to test him, this morning he was @ 54. I think he was running high yesterday because of the pancreatitis.
     
  28. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Very same here. It makes a huge difference to keep ahead of the curve. It's so much harder to get an inappetent cat to start eating again than to help a nauseated cat to keep eating (with extra assistance from pain meds if appropriate).

    @djamilla - Teresa's point about the importance of anti-inflammatories is an important one. We can't get Cerenia tablets here so I always made sure Saoirse got a course of B12 at the first sign of any trouble because it has some anti-inflammatory benefit. I've since learned that some pancreatitis kitty caregivers include a regular weekly B12 injection as part of their maintenance regimen. (Wish I'd thought to do so. :( )


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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Teresa & Buddy - I'm very sorry that Buddy is also a pancreatitis sufferer. It's a most awful affliction. :(


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  30. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Love the video. I wish I could of done that with a few of the vet bills before I paid them!
     
  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    (((Buddy)))

    Fingers and paws crossed that Buddy'll be feeling much better very soon.


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  32. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Buddy, is eating his wet food today and his BG # came way down today, so I am hoping things are clearing up. Buddy has B12, that he is to take 2 times a week, I have not been giving it to him lately, but I am going to start. I am sure at one time Sam was taking B12, because Djamlla was asking me what kind of syringe I was using, because the vets always give those honking big syringes with B12. Buddy has had chronic pancreatitis for years, last year the tail of his pancreas was removed and it did not help one bit.
     
  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Teresa & Buddy -

    Re your question on another thread about feeding issues/pancreatitis, I did a brain dump on another thread about all the things I found helpful with Saoirse. I'm sure it's all old news to you but I'm posting the link here for you just in case there might be something helpful to you and Buddy:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-at-wits-and-budgets-end.188810/#post-2100608

    Again, probably very old news but the following sites/links were helpful to me:

    Persuading your cat to eat

    Nausea symptoms and treatments

    Tips for stimulating appetite

    IBDkitties.net

    IDEXX Feline Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines


    One of the most helpful tips I was given was the very basic one of raising food and water bowls to a comfortable height. That, and sprinkling some freeze-dried protein treats over warmed food. SEB helped at times, too.

    More on Meds & Supplements:

    Saoirse had some liver issues (no formal Dx but some abnormalities in scan). Saoirse had chronic renal insufficiency (IRIS stage II, quite stable). However she did have some problems with high blood pressure. The following meds caused Saoirse discomfort because of the pancreatitis and I was unable to give them to her:

    * Amlodipine (hid in a corner after every single dose. :( Discontinued very quickly. Found out from Tanya's Site support group that it is known to cause GI issues in some cats.)

    * Benazepril (trialled for BP because amlodipine wasn't a valid option).

    * Ipakitine phosphorus binder (contains soy, and she was allergic to same. Saoirse got on OK with powdered AlOH mixed into her meals.)

    * Hepatocare (milk thistle and SAM-e supplement for liver support).

    (Saoirse got on much better with Hepatosyl, another milk thistle/SAM-e supplement).

    * Oral antibiotics also caused GI upsets.

    Other Supplements with Issues:

    * Salmon oil omega 3 supplements (caused major nausea/food aversion).

    * Other fish oil omega 3 supplements (very reluctant to eat food containing these).

    (Moxxor omega 3 (green-lipped mussel source) agreed better with her; small capsules so easier to administer as well.)

    * Nutramed herbal anti-inflammatory - milk thistle, boswellia, maritime pine bark. (Tolerated well most of the time but occasionally a particular batch would make Saoirse uncomfortable.)

    * Fortiflora (triggered nausea and vomiting, and Saoirse wasn't prone to vomiting).

    (I became wary of using probiotics for Saoirse based on research in humans which point to them possibly making things worse for pancreatitis sufferers.)


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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    That's soul-crushing to hear. :(

    (((Buddy)))


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  35. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Very glad to hear this news. I hope so, too.


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  36. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    All info is appreciated, sometimes when your kitty is going through a bad flare things just don't register. When things are not that bad (hopefully will not get worse) is the time to go over information that might help later. I did not know that pancreatitis would affect the eyes, Buddy squints all the time. I asked his vet about the squinting and she said it was because he was in pain.
     
  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Saoirse used to squint, too (and it was the eye that eventually had the problem). I asked our general practice vet about it a couple of times but he didn't suggest anything. Sadly it was only when things had gone horribly wrong that Saoirse was referred to an (absolutely brilliant) opthalmology specialist.


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  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I have working memory problems at the best of times (PTSD-related) so I have to scribble things down or they're gone. I carried this over into Saoirse's spreadsheet. All the secondary monitoring, record keeping and journalling proved to be an invaluable guide to what did and didn't help her because it helped in spotting trends that I would otherwise have missed (and it was a godsend if one needed to backtrack to a regimen that had been working better for her).

    Of course all this went to pot a few times when things were rough. :banghead: (Got scribbled onto paper but didn't make it into the spreadsheet, but I did hang on to the paper journals.)


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  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just had a thought about another thing to watch out for. Flea spot-on treatments can cause GI upset and inappetence. It was a dose of Advocate that started Saoirse down the slippery slope to that first (absolutely awful) flare.


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  40. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for this comment. I was trying to read through all of this and honestly just felt like it was going in one ear and out the other. This makes me feel like it's okay to just wait until he's more stable and then come back and read when I'm more stable too. :rolleyes:

    Thank you both so much for taking all of this time to help. I know it will all make more sense once he's a little better. This is the worst attack he's had so far. :(
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    For you and Sam: :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  42. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm really sorry to hear this. :( From someone else who's been there ...

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I really hope that Sam starts to improve as soon as possible. I really feel for both of you. Sending lots of positive healing vibes.

    (((Sam and Djamila)))


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  43. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Adding mine to the mix!
     
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  44. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Mine too !! Get well Sam, right away !!
     
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  45. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    This spring I was talking to the vet and I mentioned flea treatment, she said "NO" he is sick, never put flea treatment on a sick cat. I have not put flea treatment on Buddy this year and I did not put any on Red this year before she passed away.
     
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  46. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well shoot. Now you all have me crying. Thank you for walking through all of this with me. It's good to have a community that understands - even if you are all inside my computer :bighug:
     
  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    And the world is probably a much safer place because of this! :p

    We're all rooting for the two of you, Djamila.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  48. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You may be right about that!
     
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  49. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Finally a little good news. A box from Chewy's arrived last night and Sam got a new catnip fish (he loveloveloveloves catnip!):

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/SztOzpxjD6n1anZx2
    [​IMG]

    He snuggled and played (yeah!) with it all night, and then part way through the night he woke me up and wanted to eat. Hooray! It was good to see him eating all on his own without needing me to bribe and coax him. This morning he ate a little breakfast too and just went back for a few more bites as I started writing this. Since pancreatitis seems to go back and forth between good moments and bad ones, I'm learning to celebrate every little good moment!

    I increased his cerenia and bupe doses yesterday and am planning to continue those today in the hopes that I can keep ahead of this for a bit.
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    @Teresa & Buddy knows exactly how this feels, Djamila.
     
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  51. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Djamila,

    If I were you I would go heavy on the cat nip, till Sam gets to feeling better. When Red was feeling really bad, I went to the health food store to buy things to make Liver Shake trying to get her to eat. One of the clerks said give her more cat nip at this time, it seems to help the way they feel. I did and it did help, it also helps Buddy. Red did pass away @ 16, but the cat nip did help.
     
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  52. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Sam will like this advice! He really loves the stuff. :p It doesn't make him all crazy like some cats, it just makes him calm and happy. I also ordered some feliway to see if I can lower any underlying stress. I'll pretty much try anything at this point!
     
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  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Teresa & Buddy -

    Great point about the catnip! I had forgotten about that. When I first started more closely observing Saoirse after her Dx I noted that after meals she would go and park herself next to her catnip toy. I researched online and discovered that catnip has analgesic properties. (IIRC it targets certain opioid receptors.) Thereafter, I would hold up Saoirse's little catnip hedgehog for her to lick, especially any time she might be meatloafing a bit after a feed. She definitely enjoyed doing so and you could see the tension leaving her body after her 'nip fix. It made her much more comfortable. (((Saoirse)))

    I think exchanges like this really demonstrate how valuable these types of discussions can be: We may all have little tips 'n' tricks to help our kitties but, because they've become second nature to us, we don't think to mention them.

    @Djamila -

    I am sooooo pleased to read that Sam is eating again for you. Isn't it such a relief! :bighug: I'm glad he's enjoying his catnip, and that's a lovely picture of him. (((Sam)))

    This. A thousand times this!

    Fingers, paws, and everything else crossed for Sam to keep improving and feeling better.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  54. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    From this article:

    This article on catnip safety is very interesting, too (especially the note about catnip and hyper-T kitties):

    This article about research into essential oil derived another member of the Nepeta family mentions that it appears to have pain relieving and anti-inflammatory effects.


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  55. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  56. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean
     
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  57. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Buddy, was really high last night @PMPS, this morning @AMPS he was really low. I could not get him up enough for me to give a shot until this afternoon, so he is without insulin, until PMPS. He does this a lot, I don't know why. His SS is not up to date. He seems to be feeling alright, but of course he is sleeping.
     
  58. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I am going to read what you have posted about catnip.
     
  59. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Any difference in his clinical signs at the different times?


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  60. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I never noticed any difference, I will start paying more attention.
     
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  61. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It's good to hear that he seems to be feeling okay today. And hopefully the sleep is bringing more healing. :bighug:
     
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  62. PPCW

    PPCW Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  63. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Djamila, @Teresa & Buddy -

    Just checking in to see how Sam and Buddy are doing today, and also to see how both of you are bearing up.

    :bighug:


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  64. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Well, I was at work all day, so I like to imagine he was just fine for the hours I was gone. ;)

    Just got home and he is up and walking around, but doesn't want dinner. He had cerenia this morning. He doesn't look like he's in pain, so not sure why he doesn't want to eat. I need to move the t/f/s time a little later anyway, so I'm giving him some time and will start the bribery in a little while if he still isn't interested.

    @Teresa & Buddy, how is Buddy doing?
     
  65. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Djamila -

    Good to hear from you. I hope Sam will eat for you. If you haven't tried ondansetron then that might help him, possibly in conjunction with the Cerenia as suggested by Teresa. And maybe give him his catnip toy?

    Are you managing to get any rest for yourself, Djamila?

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  66. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  67. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    That's a great idea to get a refillable toy. And yes about the Yeoww! I don't know what they do when they grow it, but it is far and away the best catnip. Thanks for the link!
     
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  68. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    At this time he seems to be doing fine, but you never know. He is eating, no bowel problems. I don't like to say too much.

    Djamila,

    I thought that your vet gave you a script or sold you Ondansetron, or did I dream that.
    How is Sam feeling.
    I am going to check out the refillable toys, Mogs has really good ideas.
     
  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I only ever came across one better: I used to be able to get it in Ireland. Another organic 'nip product, it went under the brand name Feline Groovy (a pun that will be appreciated by members of a certain vintage ... :rolleyes:). It was powerful stuff!


    Mogs
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  70. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Know that feeling all too well.

    Anti-jinx, anti-jinx ... :nailbiting:

    (((Buddy)))


    Mogs
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  71. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm that vintage, Mogs! ;)
     
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  72. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    It's a singularly good vintage, Kris! ;)

    (But then I really have to say that ... :oops:)


    Mogs
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  73. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I have the vet appointment on Monday. So no ondansetron yet. Sam did end up eating tonight all on his own. Just not with a lot of enthusiasm. I'm going to bump up his CBD dose a bit more tonight as I've been reading that can help with appetite too.

    Also, the feliway arrived and it says that it's odorless, but I can definitely smell it and it's kind of icky, so I think that's going back. :confused:
     
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  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Very glad to hear Sam managed to eat under his own steam. (((Sam)))
     
  75. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I am also that vintage and maybe plus some.
     
  76. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    (((Djamila))) I wanted to check in on you and Sam and I see he's still a little off. I hope you have success with the new vet and sending you lots of vetty vines. vibes.gif

    I always limited the cat nip but I think I'll let Ming have it more often...he loves it. Going to order some refillable toys on line now.

    I had brought Feliaway back into the mix when I brought Buddy into the house to ease the new cat tensionso_O. I continued to keep the plug ins up until a week or so ago. I had one diffuser upstairs and one downstairs. Ming recently started to "cough" again and I reached out to the IM vet via email to let her know. I knew that a steroid shot was out of the question. My regular vet felt it was ok to give a couple of times a year if needed. IM vet and what I learned here that is to be avoided at all costs so that Ming doesn't get to join the FD club:stop:. So IM vet said if it continues bring him in for radiogragh of lungs and possible script for Flovent. I have since bought the AeroKat chamber in preparation and to get Ming used to it in the event he some day needs it. When Beenie had suspect asthma I purchased a big Honeywell air purifier and did away with all smelly candles and incense (DH likes his incense:p) so we were good in that department. So then I asked the IM vet about the Feliaway diffusers....it does after all emit a "substance" into the air. She responded back that she always questioned it since it is an oily substance that she has not used it in her own home for that very reason. I chucked both diffusers and so far Ming has not been showing any signs of coughing other than the three separate occasions within about an 8 day span. In the recent past when this occasional cough would start it would just continue to get worse until I brought him in and he got the Depo Medrol injection.
    So crazy if Feliaway is really not good to breath in especially for the kitties with breathing issues /asthma. Oh and probably not good for us Beans to breath in either:blackeye:

    Please give Sam lots O chin scritches:cat:
    :bighug:
     
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  77. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Thanks, Michelle! Since Sam does have occasional asthma, I think that seals the decision on the Feliway. As with anything, it's probably fine for some cats and not so fine for others. In this case, also not so fine for the bean since for whatever weird reason I can smell it.

    Sam's symptoms seem to be improving - he is eating again today and his posture is continuing to relax. I'm hoping his BG will come down soon as he hasn't been responding to the insulin well the past few days despite little increases. And he's still not interested in playing or socializing. He did wash his face after eating though, so he's starting to groom again. Sweet Atticus does much of his grooming for him when he's sick.

    He's due for a B12 shot this weekend, but I really hate doing them. The needle is huge. It doesn't seem to bother Sam really, but it sure scares me! :eek:
     
  78. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Glad to hear that Sam's improving (anti-jinx!). Isn't Atticus a little dear for looking after him! :)

    Know what you mean about the B12 syringe needles. Our vet gave me a prefilled syringe to give to Saoirse at home but I completely bottled it and got him to do a house call instead. :oops:


    Mogs
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  79. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Lol....glad I'm not the only one! The first shot I gave him was a complete miss - the needle went right through his skin. Of course I didn't notice until I squirted red liquid all over the place. :rolleyes:
     
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  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I felt resistance from the needle and couldn't bring myself to exert enough pressure to go through the skin. Was absolutely petrified of accidentally hurting my beloved girl. (((Saoirse)))

    With 20/20 hindsight I should have asked the vet to give me a second empty syringe so that I could practice on an orange before trying to administer the B12 to Saoirse.


    Mogs
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  81. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    :bookworm:Gee a ancestry.com DNA test may seriously surprise you:smuggrin:
    catwoman-comic-batman-art.jpg
     
  82. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL!
     
  83. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Hahahaha!
     
  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well, my sugar cat is off his food today. I've tested for ketones and he's clear, so at least there's that. He did "help" me a bit today while I was making my lunches and a couple of dinners for the week, so he ate a decent helping of raw steak (how's that for a spoiled kitty?), and a few chunks of raw chicken. Not exactly a complete, nutritionally balanced meal, but better than nothing. And food aside, it's nice to see him up and getting into things instead of just curled up on the bed.

    He even spent some time this afternoon trying to play with Atticus. Atticus was apparently not in the mood to play :nailbiting::eek::smuggrin::rolleyes: A few minutes after this photo they were curled up on the sofa together purring away. Ah kitties.

    upload_2018-1-14_16-32-26.jpeg

    Looking forward to the vet visit in the morning, although I do worry about adding stress to him right now. I have a feeling the outcome will be to keep doing what we're doing, but I'll feel better for having checked.
     
  85. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Raw steak? Talk about 5 star service!

    Hoping for positive outcomes tomorrow at the vet. I know I become a bit of a mess when Gracie is sick, or not herself. I can only imagine what others go through.
    I'm rooting for you Sam!!!
     
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  86. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Good luck at the vet visit today, Djamila. You've said this is a new vet but I can't recall your reason for switching.
     
  87. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I just want a second opinion. My vet is very sweet, but doesn't seem to know a lot about any of this. For example, he didn't know pain meds were needed with pancreatitis. It wasn't that long ago that Sam was in blues and greens every day on a low dose. These high numbers/dose are most likely just from the p. but my vet just shrugs at the change. I want to make sure there isn't something else.
     
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  88. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Wise decision. Vets can differ widely in their level of knowledge. I've said before that my vet is actually very good and has an interest in FD but still recommended feeding only twice a day and using curves to assess dose. I stuck with the curve approach far too long because I trust her. However, she now knows I make all my own FD treatment decisions, including insulin changes and she's OK with that. Very willing to work collaboratively.

    How did you decide on which vet to see for a second opinion - advance phone calls to assess FD experience?
     
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  89. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes - advance conversation, and recommendation from a friend of mine who fosters cats. We didn't talk a ton ahead of time, but her first questions were if I was home testing and when his last dental was, so she at least knows that much.
     
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  90. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Glad to hear that Sam's energy levels are picking up, Djamila, but sorry to hear his appetite's iffy.

    That is an a-mazing photo you posted above!

    Hope you have a productive consult with the new vetty bean.


    Mogs
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  91. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, that's an excellent photo of Atty! :D
     
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  92. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Vets are much like doctors. Each one has their own opinion. Some are more knowledgeable than others too.

    Did you ask about something for the pain with your "old-normal" vet?

    Please keep us updated.
     
  93. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    When I started Gracie on insulin her normal vet was on vacation. She started 2u BID. I didn't know that wasn't the normal "starting dose. I just assumed she knew what she was taking about. The vet appeared very uneasy and unsure. I didn't think much about it until later on when I saw the crazy numbers.

    Just recently I did some crazy FB- Google-Board of Veterinary medicine FBI work. Found out she was a new grad. Sadly, I shouldn't have let that interfere with my opinion of her, but it did. I just felt like she wasn't well-versed in diabetes.

    And come to think of it when I'm looking for a new doctor or specialist for myself I also do "FBI" work.

    Kris- Does she know you home test too?
     
  94. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    There's an Irish saying: Doctors differ, and patients die.

    :nailbiting:


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  95. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well, the vet visit was kind of a bust. Very nice, and supportive of home care, but not really all that much more knowledgeable than my current vet. Plus she told me to increase to 4u. Sigh. I know they can only make one unit dosing recommendations, but that's just plain dangerous. She did give me a recommendation for an ultrasound with a board certified sonographer and suggested a possible round of antibiotics depending on the outcome of the ultrasound.

    Also gave me a recommendation for a vet dentist and I just called. They are scheduling 6 months out, and they have an initial exam of $150 +1300-1500 (!!!) for the cleaning. That doesn't include any possible extractions.

    My biggest concern is that Sam has gained a full pound since October. That is concerning first because he shouldn't be gaining weight, and second because he's eating so little with the pancreatitis that I am wondering how he is gaining weight at all. Mystery upon mystery, it seems.
     
  96. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, she does. When my guy was diagnosed the first things I was told were about the need for low carb wet food only and the need to learn to home test to do curves at home. Once I saw that I'd have to be a lot more hands on with his treatment I told my vet I'd be doing things the FDMB way and she was fine with it. Many months later when I went back to Lantus and later on Levemir, I told her after the fact. We can buy those over the counter here in Canada.
     
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  97. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm sorry you aren't much further ahead, Djamila. :(
     
  98. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Have Sam's activity levels been reduced over the period in which he's gained the weight, Djamila?


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  99. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    So disappointing.
    What did you say when she recommended 4u? I have a pretty bad poker face-unless I'm at work. I likely would have reacted a bit harsh.

    Dental stuff is sooooooooo expensive for pets. I haven't had any work done on Gracie. A large part is due to cost. If she was in pain, or something was wrong I'd try my best to find a way to make it happen. I get it is important, but why must it be so expensive. It makes taking care of our cats so hard to do at times.

    How are you holding up?
     
  100. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I definitely failed at the poker face. I think I laughed. I promised her I would increase (since I'm supposed to be doing that anyway), but maybe a little slower than that. o_O

    And vet expenses are crazy $$$. I think I'll stick with my local vet for the dental care - still expensive, but not that bad. I went ahead and took the June appointment just in case though.

    I'm doing okay. I was hoping for something a little more promising, but I think this is just how it's going to be for now. I'll keep researching and trying things - and of course do the ultrasound to make sure everything else is okay - but from everything I've been learning, there isn't a magic wand that makes pancreatitis go away.

    Mogs - yes, his activity has been lower since he's been sick much of the time, but since his calorie intake has been too, a full pound in three months seems like a lot to gain. I'm also not sure what to do about it since I don't really want to restrict his calories more than hes already doing on his own, and it's been hard to get him to play very much since he doesn't feel well. I'm trying not to let myself think that there is a tumor growing in there causing the weight gain - because of course my mind goes to the worst possible option. :rolleyes: Plus, the vet did a pretty thorough physical exam and I would imagine a one pound tumor would be big enough that she would have noticed it. So enough crazy for one morning! :stop:
     

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