Sliding scale for cat insulin?

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Jackie M., May 1, 2015.

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  1. Jackie M.

    Jackie M. New Member

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    Apr 24, 2015
    Hi, new to the forum, owner of Bob, recently (4/24) diagnosed with severe pancreatitis and as a result, diabetic. My husband and I want to do the sliding scale thing with his insulin and switch ALL the critters to a wet diet. I know this is gonna be ______ (fill in the blank) Any help will be appreciated. I certainly do not understand why a vet would treat a patients condition so markedly different than the same condition as a medical Dr. Yeah, i get that a human deserves a good quality of life as can be but our kiffies need that too. I mean the diet/ insulin...once in the am, once at night, same amount, no matter what! they can run a steady high and life would not be as fun for as long IMOO. Input? *I'm still reeling*
     
  2. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    What sort of insulin are you giving? With lantus and levemir it is important to be consistent with the dose and adjust only according to the protocol (tight regulation or start low go slow - see the posts at the top of the lantus/levemir insulin support group forum for more info). With ProZinc or PZI I believe you can use a sliding scale that needs to be tailored to the cat.

    I assume you're home testing (or planning to) if you're talking sliding scale. There are instructions on how to set up a spreadsheet in the top posts (stickies) in the tech forum. To help you develop a sliding scale people will need to see his numbers. The spreadsheet is an awesome way to keep a record of everything for yourself, for us so that we are able to provide dose advice and for your vet if you choose to send them the link.

    if you have already started insulin you will need to monitor closely while changing over to low carb wet as this can have a ignificant impact on the BG levels.

    Welcome to the best place that you never wanted to be :)
     
  3. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello Jackie and sugarcat Bob, and welcome to FDMB :bighug:

    Has Bob started on insulin yet?
    If he hasn't then you may want to bear in mind what Vyktor's Mum wrote above about insulin choices. Are you in the US? If so, then you have several insulin options available to you.
    If it is your hope/plan to use sliding scale dosage then you would be better opting for a non-depot insulin like Prozinc or PZI (these are more adaptable when it comes to changing the dose and the time of the shot.)

    A lot of kitties actually do very well on fixed doses at fixed times. But others do better with sliding scale dosage. (My own sugarcat has always been on sliding scale dosage.)

    To start out though it is important to know how a given dose of insulin works in your cat's body. For example, it's helpful to know what, say, one unit (a typical starting dose) will do, before adjusting upwards/downwards. Also, the blood glucose numbers can be very wonky initially after starting on insulin (as the cat's body learns to use it); so it's helpful to give those inconsistencies a chance to settle out so you can see the clear picture.

    It sounds like you're feeding dry food at the moment?
    You may find quite a difference in Bob's blood glucose levels once you transition to low carb wet food. And if he isn't on insulin yet then this could be a good time to transition him. For a cat already on insulin we recommend that the diet is only changed to lower carb if the caregiver is comfortable with hometesting and can monitor the effect of the diet change at home (and can reduce the insulin dosage if necessary.)

    A diagnosis of feline diabetes can come as quite a shock at first. But the good news is that with a committed caregiver, and a little bit of luck, a diabetic cat can live as long and as happily as a non-diabetic.
    Some cats will be on insulin for life, but quite a few lucky cats will go into remission from their diabetes (be able to have their diabetes diet-controlled) either temporarily or permanently.

    Welcome aboard!

    Eliz
     
  4. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi again, Jackie.
    Here is the link to FDMB's 'Pancreatitis Primer', which you may find useful:
    A Primer On Pancreatitis
    .
     
  5. Jackie M.

    Jackie M. New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Ok, It has been a busy couple weeks and we may be reconsidering the sliding scale.... that you for the links and input these are good! I've been reading a lot, comparing information and after all this, we have managed to switch all our cats to a wet diet. Bob the sugarcat, is on ProZinc 1 u bid after meal.. He seems to be adjusting well, we had his bg tested by dr on his hosp. discharge and it was slightly elevated. his appetite is getting better, he's getting more active with bright eyes too. atm things seem so good i think i'm doing something wrong. (i know i'm not) Our local vet does not agree with frequent testing... I think i may check out another vet ;). Eliz - since the hosp. stay he has had no dry food, just low carb wet twice a day with a few morsels chicken breast in place of crunchy treats. After research I have seen the vast difference. the difficult part was/is convincing the other 3 kiffies that wet is gonna be it. fortunately there's just 1 holdout. she's eating some...and some more every feeding. I enjoy this forum very muchand i come back daily...i had NO idea there were so many!
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB.
    For the dry food holdout, check into Evo Cat and Kitten at specialty pet stores or Young Again 0 Cran (about 5% calories from carbohydrates) online.
    Our 'bible' on feline nutrition is Cat Info written by Dr Lisa Pierson. There is a downloadable food chart there as well.
    If you decide to go vet shopping, see my signature link Vet Interview Topics for some questions you may wis to ask.
    See my signature links Glucometer Notes and Secondary Monitoring Tools for some other useful information.
     
  7. Carolee

    Carolee Member

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    Mar 24, 2017
    Hi my name is Carolee ,my cat just got diagnosed with diabetes and i am wondering if there is a sliding scale for the insulin?
     
  8. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    HI Carolee, welcome. What insulin are you using? While there is no set sliding scale, some insulins can be adjusted more frequently than others. Come to the Maine Health Forum and tell us more about your kitty and we'll be glad to help you.
     
  9. Carolee

    Carolee Member

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    Mar 24, 2017
    I am using vetsulin . I have not given it yet I tested his bd st 1530 today and it was 61. I fed him 3oz of fancy feast wet low carb . I will recheck at 2330.
     
  10. Carolee

    Carolee Member

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    Mar 24, 2017
    He was given 5 units at the vets this morning it is his second day on insulin
     
  11. Carolee

    Carolee Member

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    Mar 24, 2017
    I am so freaked out about him being diabetic . I gave another day and I fed him the same today threw the dry good away and feed chicken thighs but up for in between the am and pm meals
     
  12. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014

    How long after the shot was the reading of 61?


    That is a HUGE dose for a kitty to be starting on. The usual starting dose is 1-2 units with most people starting with 1 unit and slowly working up as needed.


    If you have removed dry food from the diet that alone can cause numbers to drop sometimes quite a lot.


    I am very concerned with the high starting dose. Please monitor his numbers very closely.

    Hopefully you won't need this any time soon but please read up on hypos and how to deal with them.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    This link tells you what supplies to always have on hand to deal with hypos:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  13. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Carolee

    Could you start a new thread (post) on this forum: You could use a title of "Vetsulin starting dose 5 units need dose advice" and use the "?" icon in the title to get more attention.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

    Since this is an older post your questions may be missed by other members and I would really like to get more input from other members.
     
  14. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  15. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hi Carolee--

    I followed Tuxedo Mom's link back here. Hopefully you'll be able to start a new thread in Feline Health to get more eyes on your situation, but I just wanted to strongly second what Tuxedo Mom said about being very very cautious with that high a dose, the 61 this afternoon, and a recent shift to a low-carb diet. You are on the right overall track with his diabetes treatment (congrats on the home test, by the way! that is a huge hurdle for many!), but that particular combination could be very dangerous in the short term. Please post for more input on how to proceed before giving any insulin tonight, so we can help keep your kitty safe!
     
    Tuxedo Mom likes this.
  16. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    Carolee, PLEASE DO NOT give your kitty any insulin before you test him again!

    5U is a really huge starting dose. I am afraid that that is way more than your kitty needs, and could be dangerous, if so.

    What type of meter are you using to test? Is it a human meter or a pet-specific meter?
     
  17. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Omg PLEASE DON'T GIVE HIM 5 UNITS.... IT WILL PUT HIM IN GRAVE DANGER. SERIOUSLY HE COULD DIE.
     
    Monica & Josie likes this.
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