Smiffy's numbers lower August/September

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Looby & Smiffy, Aug 24, 2016.

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  1. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Capoo @Louise1989 @JanetNJ @scoobydoox @Alexi @Woodsywife

    As you know for the past couple of days there has been a new trend in Smiffy's numbers and it is making me think that maybe her pancreas is starting to produce a bit of insluin again - what I think you would call 'spluttering'?

    The day before yesterday for the second day in a row her numbers went down after her AMPS, then up again as you would expect, but then down again after she had had a small snack so that her PMPS was low - low enough for me not to give her a shot:

    AMPS: 16.8
    +3 6.4
    +4 8.1 wet food snack and a few biscuits betwen +5 and +7
    +8 12.4
    PMPS 9.5

    I have recently bought some Thrive and Porta21 Sensible dry food that I am mixing with her Hills m/d and also she has a little wet snack in the afternoon at about +5/6 (she is gradually eating more of the wet food but not enough yet to constitute a main meal yet) but overall her carbs are a bit reduced.

    I am thinking that these numbers would suggest that after she had her snack which contributed to her numbers going up, her pancreas kicked in a bit to lower the numbers again? What do you think? Usually once her numbers start to rise they continue to do so until her PMPS. I keep her spreadsheet up to date.

    I only have to give Smiffy one unit in the morning to get her numbers down into the blues now and for the past couple of nights she has been below 10 preshot so I haven't had to give her any insulin.

    I am guessing that her high AMPS reading is high because she has bounced? How long do you think she will continue to bounce for her AMPS?

    Do you think it is worth me giving her a half unit in the evening if she is at the top of her blue number range ie 11.1 to try to get the AMPS down or should I just wait for her to stop bouncing?

    Tonight her PMPS was 12.4 so I gave her one unit as she didn't eat much in the hope that it might bring down her AMPS ....

    Thanks for your continued help and support on behalf of Smiffy :)

    Now that Smiffy's numbers are coming down Smiffy and I will need your support all the more ....
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  2. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Loving all the blue on Smiffy's spreadsheet recently...and that one drop into green too. She's looking great at the moment.

    No dosing advice for you - I don't understand Caninsulin well enough to offer anything on reduced shots as opposed to skipping on those lower numbers...I just wanted to say you're doing a great job with her!
     
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  3. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Thanks so much April :)
     
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  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious why you lowered her from the 1.5 down to 1 recently? The 1.5 produced a high green for you... I personally would have stayed with that and tried to get a few more greens.


    Are you using a human or pet meter?
     
  5. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Hi,

    I'm using an AccuChek Aviva human meter.

    If you mean the morning shot, I reduced the dose to one unit because she is getting low blue numbers on that dose and I was told by on of the senior members here with experience of Caninsulin not to let Smiffy go below 5.6 (100) on Caninsulin.

    I am not around for Smiffy's daytime Nadir so I can't risk her having a hypo and me not being there to deal with it. Also I don't give Smiffy 1.5 units in the morning (even if she is in the high yellows or pinks) if she has not eaten very much as you know Caninsulin has to be given with food.

    In the evening I can monitor her so am happier to give her 1.5 units if she is between 10 (180) and 14 (250) but I won't if she doesn't eat anything.

    For the last few evenings she has been 10 (180) or under and I have been advised not to give her a shot when she is under 10.
     
  6. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @Marlena Smiffy is a low (ish) 13.7 this morning so the one unit last night lowered her AMPS this morning ...... she is eating at the moment so I am hoping she is going to eat enough for me to give her a one unit shot .... things are getting scary now .....I wonder if you are right @Capoo and she will have an early Nadir today if I only give her one unit on that number? I am a bit concerned .....
     
  7. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Don't be concerned, it looks good.
    If you can test at +3 to see if she dropping early.
    I will get back to it later, sorry that I have to go now.
     
  8. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Just took Smiffy's +4 and she was 6.9 so she may have been lower earlier .... she is a bit limp it has to be said and I thought she would be feeling better with a lower BG!

    Maybe it is taking time for her to get used to the feeling?

    I am going to try to give her half a unit in the evening if her BG is around 10 (180) blue number just to keep these better AMPS numbers (13.7 this morning - yellow) going provided she eats .... she is not very hungry today as it is so hot ....

    I think these lower numbers must be to do with her having a slightly lower carb diet don't you @Marlena ?

    I am a bit scared of these blue numbers! If she is around 10 tonight and I give her a half unit I must definitely test her at +3 to see what her probably Nadir is don't you think?
     
  9. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    I'm not familiar with caninsulin. Blue numbers are good. As far as the sputtering I guess it's possible but have no idea. Hope someone with caninsulin knowledge can answer for you.
     
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  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Blue is what you want. Doing good.
     
  11. Catticus Maximus

    Catticus Maximus Member

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    I have to say, I would have loved numbers like this while using Caninsulin. :woot:
     
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  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    My cat is doing great on vetsulin as well. Maybe they changed it for the better after the recall?
     
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  13. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Smiffy just staggered alll over the place ..... gave her honey and high carb biscuits ... BG 8.1 now few minutes later .... possible hypo!!!! @Marlena
     
  14. Helenjayne

    Helenjayne Member

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    May 7, 2016
    Like I said fred hitting remission is as confusing as first diagnosis and I got less information in advance. Hope you get it sorted x
     
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  15. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    I wasn't aware of a recall?!
     
  16. Catticus Maximus

    Catticus Maximus Member

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    Glad it's working for your kitty as well... :woot: I used it after the recall and had more of the typical roller coaster action on it.
     
  17. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Is there nobody here to help me or give me guidance after Smiffy has had possible hypo?
     
  18. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Many members are hesitant to respond because they are not familiar with the metric system. You may get more responses if you convert your numbers by multiplying by 18 in your posts.
    8.1 x 18 = 145.8 or round off to 146

    Spreadsheet:
    151 @+5
    146 @+6
    171 @+7

    Given past and current data, I seriously doubt a hypo (symptomatic or otherwise) occurred between +5 and +6.
     
  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Just test again in 20 min.
     
  20. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I can't find any recent recalls for Caninsulin/Vetsulin. The latest I could find was in 2009/2010.
     
  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Unless your meter is REALLY off I don't see how she could have hypoed when the numbers were in the blues.
     
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  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize it was that long ago. I just now when my cat was diagnosed in May my vet had to check to see if it was being sold again.
     
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  23. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    She is OK now at 9 and took her for a walk :) and she is stable on her feet
    Thank you so much for doing that - I'm aware of the conversion required - will try to do that next ime .... what do you think it could be then? She was really staggering as she got up as if she were drunk .. her blood pressure was normal at her last trip to the Vet ..... just taken her for a walk and she is stable again ....
     
  24. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    No the meter is not really off but she could have fallen after her +5 number ....
     
  25. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Hey haven't heard from you for ages .... how are you?

    Would love to hear more from you as you use or used to use Caninsulin - there are not many of us!

    Smiffy seems to be doing really well on it and it seems to last the full 12 hours for her and now she is getting good low numbers throughout the day :)

    I would love for you to follow us from time to time ..

    How are your puss cats?
     
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  26. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    There could be several explanations. Your best course of action is to let your vet know what happened. Your vet may want to perform certain diagnostic tests in an attempt to find a reason or explanation.
     
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  27. Melanie and Smokey

    Melanie and Smokey Well-Known Member

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    Feb 24, 2010
    As Jill said, with the pattern in the numbers, the likelihood of that having happened is doubtful. Her numbers appear to be a good 100 points above a hypo range so whatever she was experiencing it was likely not hypoglycemia. I have used the same meter as you for many years over multiple cats, it is one I trust very much. One thing we want to make sure we do is look past the diabetes in our cats. They are still cats who can be afflicted with other cat issues. We don't want to miss something else going on by blaming everything on the diabetes. Our BG testing gives us SO much information. In this case it seems to be saying something else beside the diabetes was going on for Smiffy in that episode. Smiffy looks to be 15. Maybe she was just groggy and didn't get her footing. Has she been checked for arthritis? Maybe she has some joint pain somewhere. We aren't vets here so we can't come up with all the possibilities, it could be nothing but a little old lady getting her footing as she got up, or it could be something your vet can help you address.


    The Caninsulin/Vetsulin removal from the market was some years ago. It is a blended insulin of short and medium acting insulin. It was not blending properly and cats were either not getting any results or were seeing severe drops from it, very unpredictable action out of the insulin. It was removed from the market (might have been in the US only) and returned to the market after they fixed it re-branded in the US from Caninsulin to Vetsulin. In some other companies retained the Caninsulin name.
     
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  28. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    My kitties are all doing well. :) I also had pretty good luck with Caninsulin (Vetsulin here in the US) and felt Squallie got a full 12-hour duration from it. You're right, there aren't many of us, lol! Glad to see Smiffy is doing so well on it, too!
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
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  29. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    This was earlier on today (from her threaad 'Possible hypo or something else?:

    At about +6 Smiffy started to stagger all over the place like she was drunk (not just a wobble) .

    I immediately put a bit of honey on her gums and gave her some high carb treats and then tested her - she was 8.1 (at +5 she was 8.4 so she obviously came down) ...... she was half an hour later 9 ........

    Was this a hypo or something else?

    At her last trip to the Vet her BP was 140 so not a low blood pressure problem.

    The last time she did this was back in the early days of her diagnosis before I could test - happened twice so we reduced her dose and allowed her to graze instead of just eat twice a day ...

    Thinking that now that I have given her honey and carbs I will not shoot if she is around 10, give only 0.5 if she is 10-12 and one (maybe) if she is 12 or over ...... that is all if based on whether or not she eats of course.
     
  30. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Melanie,

    thank you for posting :)

    You are right of course to think outside the Diabetes 'box' and I wonder if Smiffy was partly suffering a bit from the heat and had not eaten very much (as well as being relatively low BG) but she DOES have a bit of arthritis in her front legs and probably in her back legs ... she has a metal pin in her left back leg where she dislocated her knee when she was two and the other knee was proclaimed to be 'weak' at the time so she almost certainly has some arthritis there.

    I am going to e-mail her Vet tomorrow to see what she says. When she was diagnosed with Diabetes back in April she had full bloods and a few weeks later (also in the heat) she had two wobbly episodes like today within a couple of weeks but at the time I was not yet testing so I don't know what her BG was but I treated it as a hypo and reduced her dose of two units twice a day to one unit twice a day and ignore her (old as in previous now) Vet and decided not to just give her two meals a day as he suggested but to leave out food for her to graze on and have just in case she went low and she was much better on that ...... What I am saying is that she has had this happen to her before but there was nothing in her bloods that stood out (not that that is the only diagnostic).

    She has a slight heart murmur that doesn't require medication.

    I will as you say consider other reasons (may she did just get up too quickly but she looked drunk) and consult her Vet tomorrow.

    Her BG is still low tonight with a preshot reading of 8.1 (146) so I depending on how well she eats I may not give her a dose or the maximum of half a unit.

    Thanks for providing us with your support :)
     
  31. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    That's good news :)

    Yes we are an elite club - or rather our cats are!

    Hope to see you here again soon :)
     
  32. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    @Jill & Alex (GA)
    For your information and as you helped us earlier:

    It is now the evening and Smiffy's preshot number is 10.5 (146) which is a great number! And low for her as a PMPS.

    Usually I would not give her a shot 10 (180) or under but if she eats well and I test her in half and hour and she is a bit higher I will give her half a unit ...

    Just going to test her again now (half an hour later) and see how much she has eaten .....

    She has eaten a fair amount and is now 10.9 (196) so have given her half a unit @JanetNJ @Marlena

    I will check her BG again at +3 .....

    I am going to e-mail her Vet tomorrow to let her know what happened and that it may have been something other than a low BG level and she what she has to say - it could have been her bit of arthritis and/or the heat that made her stagger as she got up but she really was disoriented so I want to have the Vet's opinon.

    I will copy this to the other thread to let the others know that so kindly posted there for us :)
     
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  33. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Looby, well done with this 0.5 u dose last night.
    She did not drop too much so it looks like she is safe with this dose on a similar number.
    I think it would reasonable for you to give her this dose instead od skipping.
    Smiffy is doing well, you are doing an excellent job.:)
     
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  34. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Yes she is a decent 24.6 (263) - a bit higher than I would like but that is to be expected after yesterday .... she is not eating much this morning so only going to give her one unit :)

    Let's hope she doesn't have another wobble today and that if she does, I am with her!

    I sent an e-mail to her Vet Roberta last night with a link to her spreadsheet to see what she has to say about it all so hopefull will hear from her before the weekend :)
     
  35. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Smiffy is just 6.7 (120) at +4 today after her preshot of 14.6 (263) ...... just one unit brings her down this low!

    Do you think she is using her pancreas too now? Or is she becoming more sensitive to the Caninsulin?

    What do you think @MrWorfMen's Mom @Marlena @Squalliesmom @Capoo
     
  36. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    This is Smiffy's Vet's response to how Smiffy is doing as a result of my e-mail to her last night which included a link to her spreadsheet. This is testimony to the help that I have received here on the Board and on the Facebook page:

    Thank you for the update on Smiffy. I think you are doing an absolutely excellent job here, I'm really impressed! I think you are absolutely right to give her half a unit in the pm if she has a sub-10 BG; it should hopefully stop that bounce as you say. I also think her overall trends are great, she looks like a well-controlled cat. I'm also pleased that she is having some lower carb food, well done.
    The episode- it is a little odd, and think you are right with the low-ish BG plus arthritis plus heat. If she is well otherwise then I would continue to monitor and record her just as you are doing. We know her blood pressure is fine, which would be my other worry, but we checked it last time.
    Overall, I'm very happy- well done to both you and Smiffy!

    So thank you all very much :)

    I thought you might like to see this too @Jill & Alex (GA) as it proves how helpful all the people here and on FB have been - I couldn't have got this far with Smiffy without you all :)

    Maybe we should post more things like this to say thank you? Would you like me to put it on a separate thread?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
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  37. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    That's difficult to know without knowing the eating routine of Smiffy, and her carbohydrate intake versus time of the day.
     
  38. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    The signs are all good though aren't they? Heading in the right direction :)
     
  39. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    Yes, of course!!!

    And once again, I'm really sure of one thing : when Smiffy will only eat wet food, and I'm sure she will, she will no more need insulin!!!
     
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  40. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Hey just looked at Capoo's spreadsheet - is he officially OTJ yet? :)
     
  41. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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  42. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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  43. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    During my holidays in the East of France in July, I forgot my pet meter at home, and having some doubts about the behavior of my cat, I bought a human meter.
    Those numbers taken with a human meter (only 2 ;) ) are written in italic in Capoo's SS.

    When looking at these numbers, I assume that there is something a little bit more than 30% deviation.
     
  44. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Smiffy has just had her lowets PMPS at 8.5 (153). Things are looking good :)
     
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  45. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Really? I wonder if it depends which human meter you use? Do you mean the human meter read 30% higher or lower or either you think?

    Did you take Capoo en vacances? (on holiday?)!

    How lovely :)
     
  46. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Hey I have just realised something - Smiffy was 9.3 (167) at +7 and then down to PMPS 8.5 (153) which means she must be producing a bit of her own insulin surely?

    Caninsulin is supposed to be short lived but once again Smiffy is proving that for her it is either lasting for 12 hours or her own insulin is kicking in :)
     
  47. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Looby, these numbers are essentially the same! But her PMPS is very good, looks like she is reacting well to the insulin, her pancreas is possibly kicking in.
     
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  48. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    Human meters read always lower than pet meters.
     
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  49. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Human meters typically read lower that pet meters but there is no conversion factor like the 30% your mentioned.

    on 9-14-2014 I did two tests with my original AlphaTrak and my human Easy Gluco Plus meter. Both comparisons used same drop of blood from two different cats

    Dulce OTJAT = 72

    Easy Gluco Plus = 54The AT is 133% of the EGP value

    The EGP is 0.75 of the AT

    BadgarAT = 377Easy Gluco Plus = 331

    The AT is only 113% of the EGP value

    The EGP 0.88 of the AT
     
  50. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    Jan 15, 2016
    For sure, it depends on numerous factors.
    I did a comparison between the AT2 and the Freestyle Lite meters.
    My cat has the advantage to have now a stable BG during the day, mainly due to the LC food he receives.
    With the AT2 meter, his BG is always between 90 and 110, whereas with the Freestyle Lite, he is between 60 and 70.
     
  51. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @Capoo and @Larry and Kitties this information might be worthy of a separate thread as there seems to be some debate about it?

    I use an AccuChek Aviva so I can't relate to this data.

    I am just going on the advice that it is the trend of Smffy's numbers that is important.

    Yes I think this is worthy of a separate thread so please tag me on it as I would be interested to read further especially if anyone comes up with information about the AccuChek Aviva :)

    In the meantime I would repectfully ask that we keep this thread to dealing with Smiffy's lower numbers in August and September as it is crucial stage of her progress if that is alright with you girls?

    Thanks @Capoo for your continued support - looking forward to continueing Smiffy's journey with you along side us. I value your experience as you know and I think you have a connection with Smiffy :)
     
  52. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    I don't understand this data I'm afraid! Please see my post below ... thank you so much :)
     
  53. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Thanks Marlena, her AMPS was the lowest it has been despite the fact that I didn't give her a shot last night so she has stopped bouncing as much for her AMPS.

    She was 12.5 (225) this morning and at +4 she was 6.7 (121) so I am feeling confident in her dosing at the moment.

    If her PMPS rises to around 10 (180) I will give her half a unit but if she is below 10 (180), I don't think I need to give her a shot. Maybe I will once her AMPS is looking similar each day and she is not bouncing.

    I am feeling sure that her Caninsulin is lasting the whole 12 hours or her pancreas is doing a little something now.

    @MrWorfMen's Mom have you been on vacation? Not heard from you for a while? Hope no news is good news :)
     
  54. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @Marlena @Alexi

    Smiffy is a nice 9.2 (167) PMPS tonight and she was 7.3 (131) +4 today so she has not risen too much today (think partly because she had a wet lunch?).

    I am not going to give her a shot tonight.

    I could be bold and give her half a unit but she is not eating much (full up on wet food at lunch time!) but I think she might go down a bit too much.

    Any thoughts people?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    Reason for edit: conversion of numbers
  55. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Looby, you are so good with this now!
    You could do 2 things: skip the shot or give a smaller dose (0.5) if Smiffy eats well and you can monitor. Your night time is a better one for keeping an eye on Smiffy so if you confident you can still give her 0.5 on this number. After testing her at PMPS you could have done another test without giving any food in half an hour and see if she's raising - this is another trick to see if you going to be safe.
    So I'm afraid it must be your decision and it's difficult. Depending how you feel about being a bit more brave with this.
    I'm so busy at the moment trying to catch up on my social life and have good time before I go back to work on 1st September so I did not realise you tagged me.
    But the progress you're making is great and you seem to be so experienced.
    Well done.
    Hugs to you, Smiffy and Pasha.
    Marlena & Rocky:)
     
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  56. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    She bounced back up to 15.6 (281) this morning which is such a shame so I might risk the 0.5 unit tonight even if she is around 10 (180) and then test again shortly after as you suggest :)
     
  57. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    That's what I would do.
     
  58. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @MommaOfMuse here is Smiffy's latest thread ... I would love you to look at Smiffy's spreadsheet :)
     
  59. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    OK I will do that Janet and thanks :)
     
  60. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    @MommaOfMuse @Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi

    Change of treatment:

    Smiffy is 9.9 (180) PMPS so I would normally not give her a shot but I am going to try the half a unit on her and see if that gives her the 'booster'she needs to get her AMPS down for tomorrow morning :).

    She is 9 (162 ) at +3

    Let's hope it makes a difference for tomorrow morning .....
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  61. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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  62. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    @Marlena@JanetNJ

    Didn't really work the "booster" shot from last night ... Smiffy's BG is AMPS 16.6 (300) so she has really bounced which is what I was trying to adjust!

    However her +4 was a nice 6.8 (122) but then she has bounced (I think rather than the Caninsulin running out as it is unusual of late) back up to 12.7 (229) this evening so I have given her one unit and I will test again at +3 or +4 to see if that does the trick ....
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  63. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    @Marlena @JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @Squalliesmom

    Smiffy's PMPS is 8 (144) tonight which is not that much different to what she was at +4 7.3 (131) today so I am confident that either the Caninsulin is lasting the full 12 hours for her or that her pancreas is starting to splutter a bit.

    I don't think I need to give her a shot tonight - I think 0.5 units might make her drop too much.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  64. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Looby, you're doing great!:)
     
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  65. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Didn't give Smiffy a shot last night because she was 8 (144) but she bounced up to 14.9 (269) this morning.

    This evening she is 9.1 (164) so I am going to give her half a unit to see if I can get that bounce down .......
     
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  66. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    I think this this is a good move. You can always stall and test again in half an hour without giving food to see if this number goes up.
     
  67. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly @Marlena? Can you explain what you mean?

    I tested again at +4 and she is 8.9 (160)
     
  68. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Looby, when you have a pre shot number which is too low to shoot you can do another test (without giving food) in half an hour or even an hour to see if this number is actually going up. That my help you decide if you want to shoot at all and if you do what dose.
     
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  69. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    I was referring to this, sorry.
     
  70. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Breakthrough for Smiffy - she is only 11.9 (214) this morning AMPS ...... have given her one unit as usual and now hoping she doesn't drop too low today!
     
  71. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Looby, this is nerve wracking but it shows that you're really in control.
    As long as you're monitoring her and keeping an eye making sure she eats that should be absolutely fine.
    Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  72. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi

    Hey, Smiffy is getting some really good numbers now!

    This is where it gets a bit scary ..

    She is so well in herself these day :)

    Tell me what you think.

    Haven't heard from either of you for a while so I hope all is well or that you are enjoying lovely summer holidays?
     
  73. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    I've been concentrating on getting Cappuccino settled on her Prozinc, which suits her really well. Those numbers are looking good, if you can get rid of the dry altogether you may be able to bring her numbers down even more. Have you got syringes?
     
  74. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Hello!

    I have tried to look at Cappuccino's spreadsheet but for some reason I can't scroll down - seems to happen with some spreadsheets - have no idea why!

    Well I am so glad that Prozinc is working well for her ....

    Yes the wet food is still an issue for Smiffy .... she will have it as her lunchtime snack but refuses it at any other time of the day and with such good numbers I am loathe to make her hungry so that she eats it as I don't want to miss a shot.

    I have got syringes but don't feel I need to use them yet but when I see Roberta her Vet in October I am going to ask her to show me how to use them.

    Smiffy is keeping in the blue numbers for most of the day so the Caninsulin seems to be lasting for 12 hours and she has even gone down during the day for a second time so possibly I am hoping a little spluttering of her pancreas.

    I am giving her a half unit now in the evening if she is around 10 (180) whereas before I would skip a shot on that number but it seems to bring her 'bounce' down so that her AMPS is getting a bit lower now.

    But if she is only around 8 (144) in the evening then I don't give her a shot.

    In the morning just one unit brings her down to around 7.3 (131) these days so I don't think I should give her one and a half units in the morning.

    The lower carb dry mixed with the m/d and her wet lunch seems to have brought the numbers down.

    She is like most cats and really picky! The other day she wouldn't eat any wet at all the little monkey :)

    Good to hear from you and that Cappuccino is doing better on the Prozinc. How different is it to Caninsulin? I know nothing about it ...
     
  75. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Looby, as cats become more regulated you could see them eating less because their body isn't using the stored up fat and calories to fuel his body. So is Smiffy eating like a normal cat without diabetes?

    When Smokey was running constantly in the 300's to 400's he ate 10+ ounces a day. Now he eats 7-8 ounces a day.
     
  76. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Hi there!

    Smiffy has been eating less for some time now - almost as soon as I started her on insulin but just recently even less so you are right and of course that means she is getting the energy that she needs from less food now so that is a good clincal sign :)

    Glad to hear Smokey is better than he was ... just gong to look at his spreadsheet .... oh I can't scroll down to see his numbers ..... but great he is better.

    He is a bit of a trooper isn't he bless him?
     
  77. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Just when it was going so well, Smiffy's PMPS is 12.6 - the highest it has been for several days now - where did that come from?

    We didn't go for a relaxing walk today and sit in the garden as it was raining ... that usually brings her number down
     
  78. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Looks like Smiffy is doing pretty well these days Looby! I'm sure she was just pouting about missing her walk. :D I have been MIA but I'm back. I had a family issue crop up a few weeks back (premature "adopted" grandchild arrival)....long story that had me running my butt off helping with babysitting and then when that fire drill was over, in my not so infinite wisdom, I decided to do some "techie" stuff with my computer and unfortunately, sent it on a vacation and me incommunicado until a couple of days ago.
     
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  79. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Good to have you back :)

    Life does that to you every now and then!

    Hope things have settled down a bit for you now?

    My DH decided to install all the updates on my computer (a fairly old now Mac) on my Birthday and I begged him not to but he did it anyway and my Mac just crashed! I had to set up a paper version of Smiffy's spreadsheet and I felt as if my arm had been cut off .... I got out a really really old Mac and could just about use the simple version of Facebook on it so didn't fel completely cut off but really did miss it ...

    Fortunately we have a one-day-fix computer repair shop in our village and I got my Mac back the next day ....

    So how is Menace doing? Menace is a girl? She is young to be Diabetic poor thing ... will she still not eat all wet food? That is if your signature is up to date?

    Yes Smiffy is dong well but higher numbers today I think because there was a bit of tension in the house hold yesterday between DH and I - eek ..

    I think she is a sensitive soul :)

    Are you on the Facebook page? What is your name there ..... if I should know that forgive me ... there are so many names to remember ..

    Lovely to hear from you again :)
     
  80. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    @Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @Squalliesmom

    Smiffy is 7.9 (142) preshot this evening which is the same as she was at +4 this morning (8)!

    Surely that must mean that her pancreas is spluttering to have held that number (or to have gone up and then down again) for 8 hours?

    Obviously no shot tonight :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  81. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Menace is a little girl like Smiffy. She was only 4 yrs old when diagnosed and she will be 6 in Oct. And no sadly, I don't think I will ever get her to eat canned food. I have been trying to transition her since she was 10 weeks old when we adopted her. At this point, I sometimes think the white coat brigade will come to carry me off for still trying when opportunities of excessive hunger present themselves!
    No I'm not on the Facebook page. Not much of a Facebook user for anything!

    I'm loving Smiffy's numbers these days. It's quite possible that her pancreas is helping out a bit, more some days than others but still a good sign. :)
     
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  82. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    She has not eaten much today - just a bit of lower carb dry this morning before her shot (AMPS 13.1 (236)) of one unit and then a bit of wet just after her +4 reading and not eaten much tonight.

    Good sign or low because she has not eaten much?
     
  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    There's n way to tell for sure but given that she has had other days when her +4/5 and PMPS have been very close, perhaps noting her food intake in the comments column would help you see if it's food or something else that's keeping her numbers down. This whole diabetes thing is one big puzzle and much of the time it is guesswork to know what is going on so tracking food intake if it differs from day to day can be helpful. I don't track food for Menace unless she has one of her excessive hunger hissy fits not associated with a high or low reading because her food intake, timing and appetite have thankfully been very consistent.
     
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  84. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Ok I will start to make food notes :)

    Menace sounds like quite a character - can't believe you still try to get her to eat wet food! Do you think that is why she is still Diabetic? I just had a look at her numbers and they seem to be all over the place! Any reason why?

    Thanks for the advice :)
     
  85. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Smiffy has already bounced up to 11.1 (200) at +3 from her 7.9 PMPS
     
  86. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    @MrWorfMen's Mom have just asked April what IAA is - so that explains Menace's numbers - must be really hard and frightening at times for you!
     
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Yes Miss Menace can be a bit of a challenge but I am over the moon that she is now on 6-7.5u (seem to be having a hard time breaking through that glass ceiling:() as opposed to the 16u she was on. It's really not much different dealing with her than any other cat except for the dosing and somewhat more frequent surprises which can be scary. The worst part is the periodic sleepless nights so sometimes I just have to let her run a bit high so I can recharge my batteries. I keep hoping I can get her dose down a bit more and am sure her diet has something to do with her stubborn numbers. It may seem like utter madness to keep trying to transition her to canned food, but I keep hoping that one day, hunger will override her stubbornness. I'm not totally crazy....I managed to get my geriatric guy off his kibble at age 16 and I never thought that would happen either! ;)
     
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  88. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    I noticed that Menace's numbers are better recently :)

    I don't think you are mad - I keep trying with the wet food and reduced carb dry food!

    I am like you, if I am not going to be around for Smiffy's Nadir then I would prefer to err on the side of safety for her.

    I don't seem to be able to get people to understand that Smiffy won't eat wet food as a main meal and that I am not equipped to use syringes .... I feel really pressurised to use the syringes and as if there is no support for me and Smiffy if I don't use them .... I will ask Roberta her Vet to show me how to use them but I am really reluctant as because of the way Smiffy is and the way I am and the house set up, it would just be too much to rely on syringes .... I feel pressurised and inadequate for having to keep tell people and I can really explain my situation clearly without going into detail I prefer to keep to myself .....

    I am hoping that I can get Smiffy into remission (that would be the cherry on the cake) by using the pen.

    She is +4 6.4 (115) despite her bounciing last night on her preshot number of 7.9 (142) when I didn't give her a shot because she didn't eat.

    Congratuations on getting your older cat off dry food :)
     
  89. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016

    Me again!

    I have had this suggestion from somebody on Facebook and just wondered what you think:

    They have suggested that if Smiffy's PMPS is too low for me to give her a shot then if her +3 that night is high enough (as it was last night at 11.1 (200) to give her a shot (ie half a unit) to try to counteract the bounce that she is getting in the morning. Then go back to her normal shot time the next day. I thought about doing this last night but Smiffy had had no tea so it would not have been a good idea would it? She might have plummeted over night! But if she WERE to eat in the evening after a low preshot number (too low to shoot) would you then give her a late shot at around +3 as suggested?
     
  90. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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  91. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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  92. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Smiffy is PMPS 8 (145) and eating - so what do I do? She was this number last night but didn't eat and so I didn't shoot but by +3 she was 11.1 (200) and by her AMPS she was 13.7 (247) ....

    Do I give her 0.5 units now or not?

    @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @Squalliesmom @Marlena ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  93. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    You could try a 0.5 units if you are able to monitor and she has access to food overnight, she doesn't tend to drop very far and ideally you need to even up those AMPS and PMPS so you can shoot twice a day. Depends if you can stay up to +5.
     
  94. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    I can stay up til +4 definitely? She has not eaten a lot?
     
  95. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

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    Apr 8, 2016
    Ok so she ate a bit more and I tested her again (half an hour after PMPS) and she was 8.8 (159) so I have given her 0.5 units ..... ohhhh I hope that was the right thing to do! Will report back ....
     
  96. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    @Alexi

    Gave her 0.5 units and unless I gave her a furr shot, she is now 10.2 (180) at +4.

    Will be interesting to see if she can hold that number until tomorrow's AMPS :)

    Thanks again .....
     
  97. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Interesting that Smiffy went up after the 0.5u last night although it wasn't by much. Better AMPS today but still not down as much as the PM numbers. I'd keep trying to shoot those lower PMPS readings to see if Smiffy will level out a bit more.
     
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  98. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    @Alexi @JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @Marlena

    Smiffy was 12.3 (221) this morning so gave her one unit .... now at +4 she has gone down to 4.7 (85) which might have been lower at +3 but I was not here !

    Do you think that is because of the dose last night or beacause she didn't eat much this morning?

    She is eating her wet lunch now!
     
  99. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    It could have been due to her not eating much earlier on.
    you have given her that dose before and she was fine, as long as you check her, feed her (no honey as yet), test her she should be ok.
    Lets see what happens next.
    I'm here to hear you.
    Fingers crossed.
     
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  100. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    85 is a good number. As she gets more regulated the same dose will gradually bring the numbers into a better range. This is what you WANT to see. Don't let the green scare you. Especially since you are using a human meter. You still have a good cushion to go lower.
     
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