Switching from vetsulin to prozinc: Part 5

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Lisa and Smoky, Jan 8, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    He seems OK now, was actually playing with a toy mouse. His PMPS is in 3 hrs and he just ate his regular LC food for dinner.
     
    Kris & Teasel and Rachel like this.
  2. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    OK so Smoky was 168 for PMPS and I'm guessing I need to give him a lower dose tonight. I think 1.5U will be too much for that BG. Any ideas for me for tonight?
    He was 176 this past Thursday in pm and I gave 1.25 and Friday morning his BG was 206.
     
  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You gave him 1.5 u on 01/02 when his PMPS was 167 and the AMPS next morning was 247. You had a string of blues on 01/02. The greens today weren't hypo but they were lower than usual so he might be a bit more insulin sensitive. Why not try 1.4 u now that you can measure that out on a U100 syringe?
     
  4. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I already measured out 1.2 units of u40 which is 3.0 on the u 100 unless I dump syringe and start over
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    No, don't start over. Go with the 1.2 u. It won't make a big difference overall. ProZinc is too expensive to waste. :)
     
  6. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I gave him the 1.2 units of prozinc. It's tricky converting dose to u100 syringe. I take the printout of conversion chart in kitchen with me so I have it right there to measure insulin. I already mentioned that I keep the two kinds of syringes in different rooms to avoid a potentially deadly mix up. I just gave him some cerenia as well and then will be giving the denamarin before bed for his liver issues.
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    It'll feel clumsy for a while but you'll eventually start memorizing what the dose is measured with a U100 syringe. However, I'm very cautious and always double/triple check the chart and the insulin level in the syringe even though I've been using these for a very long time.
     
    Lisa and Smoky likes this.
  8. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I still have two boxes of u40 syringes with half unit markings and a half box of u40 syringes with whole unit on them. I have one box of the u100 syringes with half markings. I keep the u40 ones if I need a dose in whole or half unit doses. The u100 ones for when I need to fine tune his doses.
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    That works. I bought some U40s when Teasel first went on ProZinc but I've only used a few of them. I went to the U100s shortly after the insulin changeover.
     
  10. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I did the same thing, Lisa! Figured I'd use up my u40s and then go all u100 that way.
     
  11. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky was 198 for AMPS so think I will give him 1.5U and do a mid day test later and see how he is doing. His BG was 193 last Monday in the am and gave him same dose so he shld do well.
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Sounds good to me. His numbers are looking good and slowly but surely improving. :)
     
  13. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Wow Kris, you and Teasel have been thru a lot in the last year.:bighug: I kind of feel like a knucklehead griping about Smoky now. :oops:
    I am guessing you switched vets since it sounds like that one caused your boy to have a DKA episode.:mad: I can tell you are a wonderful mommy to your fur baby.:p
     
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Yeah, we've been through the wringer! Actually, I still have the same vet because the DKA episode surprised the heck out of her. She was stunned that it set in so soon after stopping insulin. She was treating Teasel the way she's dealt with other FD cats on Lantus but Teasel is ... different. She's a very good vet and is more than willing to work collaboratively with me. She's seen my SS and knows what I do. She trusts my judgment and listens to ideas I have and doesn't require me to set up an appointment to get a new vial of ProZinc, etc. - none of those very uncomfortable situations that you and others have had to face. The DKA episode was just a very unfortunate piece of bad luck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  15. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I'm so glad you have a good vet that is willing to work with you. I think it's probably rare to find one who listens to your ideas and as you said trusts your judgement. I just assumed she was like the vets I've had to deal with lately.:oops:
    I'm surprised the vet I have now will let me go and pick up a new vial of prozinc without having to make an appointment first. I think maybe she figured out that I can monitor him myself at home for the most part. I just ask for her professional opinion on how to treat Smoky. I tell her I only want what is best for him and really value her ideas and expertise.:D
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  16. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I think the 1.5 unit dose might be too much for Smoky right now. He dropped down to 90 again at +6 hours, was 198 for AMPS today. I'm not sure if that is too much of a drop or not. I have to go back to work tomorrow so depending on his BG tonight and Tues morning may need to lower dose.
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    That drop isn't bad when you're at home to monitor. You'll probably feel better at work tomorrow if you lower his dose. You have more options with the U100s - 1.4 u or 1.2 u.
     
  18. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    How would you measure out odd numbers? 1.25; 1.3; 1.75 units for example. Smoky ate two 3 oz cans of FF for breakfast, 1/2 can late morning, and 1/2 can for lunch. I think his appetite is picking up a little bit.
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    For odd numbers, I eyeball between the half unit marks on the U100s. The marks are closer together than on the U40s but it's do-able. If I want an even smaller fraction, eg. 1.25 u, I'd nudge the end of the plunger just up to but beyond the 1.2 u line. It would just barely be touching the far side (ie., toward 1.4 u) of the 1.2 u mark. You could also dose 1.25 u with a U40 syringe.

    I'm glad Smoky's more interested in food. :)
     
  20. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Someone should invent a syringe with quarter markings on it.:joyful: that would be so awesome. I've been thinking about what could be causing him not to gain weight. I am trying to give him some new low carb higher calorie food to try but he can be quite a snob at times.;)
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  21. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky was 170 for PMPS, thinking about giving a 1.2 or 1.4 unit dose. He dropped down to 90 from 198 by +6 which I don't think is too much is it? I set his no shot number for under 140. His pm shot is due in about 30 minutes from now, any ideas?
    Guess I will play it safe and give him 1.2 units again for tonight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
    Reason for edit: New info
  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Nice PMPS!
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    He should be OK with the 1.5 u while you're at work today. :)
     
  24. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky was 182 for tonight, was the 1.5U too much? I noticed his PMPS is a little higher today than Monday night. I think he will be OK with 1.4U dose? I'll play it safe and give him 1.25 units tonight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
    Reason for edit: Add on to post
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Hi Lisa,

    Just seeing this now - I was out at a meeting. He'll be fine with 1.25 u. You're really getting the hang of this sliding scale dosing and Smoky handles it well. :)
     
    Lisa and Smoky likes this.
  26. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I don't think the 1.25U was a high enough dose last night. Either that or he dropped low and bounced. amps was 297, almost out of the yellows. I plan on giving him 1.5U this morning. Too much or too little?
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I think 1.5 u should be fine based on how he reacted to it yesterday AM.
     
    Rachel likes this.
  28. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky was 232 for AMPS. Is it just me or does it seem his insulin is losing its effectiveness? He has been using the same vial for 8 weeks today. I'm not even sure what dose to give him tonight? The 1.5 or 1.75 units.

    I just ended up giving him the 1.5 units, he doesn't seem to want to get his shots over the last week. Most of the time he doesn't even notice when he gets them.
    He seems to be feeling bad again, maybe time to give him bupe once more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
    Reason for edit: New info
  29. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    The 1.5 u should be fine. I don't think your BGs are getting high enough to question the potency of your ProZinc. The yellows recently could be mild bouncing after the greens of 2 days ago.

    Re shots: do you always inject in the same area? Maybe he's a bit tender? It might be related to him not feeling well too. You could try giving bupe.
     
  30. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I inject in several different areas and never in the same spot twice.
    I think I will give him some bupe tomorrow in case he is having a flare up from the pancreatitis.
     
    Rachel likes this.
  31. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky was 187 for AMPS, I don't think the 1.5 dose wld be too much for him. I have to work today so it's hard to monitor him. I can run home for lunch on occasion but it's our busy time of the year. Maybe 1.4 units might be better?
     
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You have the option of doing 1.4 u so go for it. You'll feel less anxious at work. :)
     
  33. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I gave him the 1.4 units for am. His appetite is still not what it was
     
  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    He might need some doses of those meds for a bit.

    Edit: Some people here with sensitive/chronic issues kitties use antinausea/appetite/pain meds fairly regularly to keep kitty feeling better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  35. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    That's good to hear, I have all of those meds on hand.
     
  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You could post on the main health forum with a question mark asking for info on using these meds longer term. I know that @Carol & Murphy uses a variety of meds like this to support Murphy.
     
  37. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Hi Lisa - Murphy also has triaditis He was on Prozinc for 10 months before I switched to Levemir and he's still not regulated. I would say that besides insulin, the most important drug for Murphy is cerenia. He gets 4 mg daily for 5 days, then skip a day, then restart. This drug has made a world of difference for him in his vomiting and pancreatitis episodes. He also gets compounded urosodial daily - I have it made into a liquid, and give him 1 ml after his pm meal, and he doesn't mind it - supposed to help with liver and bile duct issues. He is also on denamarin but I have to confess, I don't give it to him much. I definitely would never give to him on an empty stomach, which is what the package directions say. Every time I do, he vomits it up in ~10-15 minutes. If I do give to him, I make sure he has a tiny bit of food with it - that definitely helps. But my best piece of advice - at the very first sign that Murphy isn't eating at either pmps or amps, I immediately give him 1 mg of ondansteron and 1 mg of cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation. I would never give him the cypro without the ondansteron
     
    Lisa and Smoky likes this.
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Thanks for this, Carol. I know you have a wealth of info on managing a kitty with complex health issues. I wasn't able to advise Lisa but remembered that you and others use these meds most of the time to forestall problems.
     
  39. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Thanks Carol, I don't have the ondansteron or urosodial but will ask my vet about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
    Reason for edit: Add on to post
  40. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    It's imperative to treat nausea. It's a human drug that was developed for people on chemotherapy. It acts differently from cerenia, which is basically an anti vomiting drug. So Murphy gets basically daily cerenia, and when he seems nauseated he gets ondansteron and when he is not eating, he gets ondansteron and cyproheptadine
     
  41. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky has the cypro for appetite stimulant, cerenia although not sure why vet gave me that, he rarely has nausea.
    Bupe for pain, given orally as needed. Metoclopramide for gut issues I think. Denamarin for liver health. I have to call vet about ondansteron and urosodial for him.
     
  42. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    You should ask the vet about daily dosing of cerenia - it is antivomiting and anti-inflammatory as well, so can prevent pancreatitis as I understand it - it's really standard therapy
     
  43. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I can ask her about that as well. She told me to give 1/4 tab of cerenia every 3 days. He only has enough to last him for 16 doses.
    He usually eats a lot of food so this is new having his appetite off. Plus my vet will only give me pre-filled syringes of bupe to give to smoky for pain. She only gave me 10 of them and I used three so far. The dose she gave me doesn't seem to have much of an effect. I am concerned that he is having so much trouble putting weight back on even when he was eating 4 to 5 cans of FF per day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  44. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm glad Carol has given you some good advice about meds. :)

    Maybe time for a new thread? ;)
     
  45. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Yep was just thinking its time to move on to part 6. I just need to go test smoky for tonight's BG reading.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  46. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Smoky PMPS was almost the same as in am, morning was 187 and night was 182.
    Isn't that a good thing to happen? Also, wld it be too much to give the 1.5 units again tonight?
     
  47. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Going to get smokys shot around. I think he wld be OK with another 1.5 unit dose for tonight. Does that sound right to you?
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    That's a great thing to happen- and they're blues! The 1.5 u was good this AM so should be good tonight.
     
  49. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    OK thanks Kris. After this going to go start part five, it can take me a while.;)
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    This morning's 247 might be a very slight bounce if he went lower overnight. I'd try 1.5 u again because you're at work today.
     
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Everything OK, Lisa?
     
  52. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Everything is OK, just a busy day at work.
    I may have to call vet since smoky seems to be feeling worse.
     
  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Maybe a flare of pancreatitis?
     
  54. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    It could be that but he is always feeling sick all the time.
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Difficult to know what's going on - triaditis issue, ProZinc not agreeing with him, etc. Call to your vet is probably a good idea. Managing chronic illness is challenging ... :(
     
  56. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    It could be that I suppose. I'm just really worried about him lately. He is still very thin and seems sick all the time. The only thing that has improved is his BG levels.
    I have taken him to the vet several times and he just doesn't seem to be getting any better.:(
     
  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Did the vet have any specific advice for you or definite ideas about what's going on?
     
  58. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I had to leave a message for her. I will call again in the morning. The last time we spoke she said she could do more blood work. She can run a test specific to internal parasites thinking one might be in his blood.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Was Smoky an outdoor cat at any point in his life?
     
  60. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Not really, I would take him outside but I was always with him. He didn't roam around on his own.
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I was just wondering how he could have gotten a parasite - maybe an insect bite?
     
  62. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I'm not sure about that one Kris. He hadn't been outside for about a year now.
    His PMPS was 183 so maybe this morning was a little bit of a bounce. I'm thinking about giving him 1.4 units and see how he does on that.
     
  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    That would give you a data point at that dose and allow you to see if he responds to minute dose changes. I know Teasel does but Teasel is ... special. o_O
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page