Tigger 8/25 PMPS/71 +2/59 - having to use HC again

Good Monday Morning LL!

Tigger's 8/14 post [http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=123533]

I haven't been around much last week, but we're all still here & everyone's doing great! Tigger especially, and I notice in the lower numbers he's more calm (tho he's normally pretty chillaxed) & less hungry.

But - Tigg's been hurtling down the reducie scale, TOO FAST imo, with BG changes I need to ask about:

4 cycles into the 8/22 & 8/25 reductions, Tigger had swinging bounces into the 300's that rocketed down to the 40's & another reduction. Both times I was busy & late for AM+1 meal. I've also had trouble over & under-carbing his meals, trying this new dance with him & not succeeding. Prior to these 2 pink bounces, it was 3 weeks since his last 300.

I'm not having to HC him to keep him up like I was 10+ days ago, but he's also been reduced from 1.39u to .89u each dose. (see my far right SS column marked HC to see T's of HC gravy or chicken fed each day)

My intent has been to hold him a week + on each lowered dose to allow the depot & his system to settle in, but he's not lasting more than 2-3 days lately.

It seems that if the dose was too high, he'd bounce, but his bounces are getting bigger as the doses get smaller. That initially had me thinking the reduced doses were too low. Now he's like a rocket & a cannonball combined!

:?: 1) Do you think the skipped meal contributed to the cannonball drop? & if so, OR:

:?: 2) Should I try holding this dose a little longer or does it seem like his pancreas is kicking in & he wants the doses reduced?


Thanks for all your help everyone,

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

The extra food at +1 would definitely slow down his drop and thus probably reduce the bounce. The speed of the dorp is as much a factor as the number of points

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

Thanks, Ann - My timing both times was lousy, plus I fed him 4% on the 300's instead of his usual 4.5%.

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

i think your dose changes are ok - this last reduction was following 6 cycles on the 0.89u. that's long enough that i'd think it wasn't from the previous dose.

i agree with Ann, i suspect the bouncing is probably from these fast drops. I'd concentrate on trying to slow them down.

when he hits green numbers, do you give him a couple of teaspoons of low carb to try to help him surf? if not, that's worth trying. The more time he spends in greens the more he'll accept it as normal.

One thing i see in the comments is that when he got into 40's this morning you gave him 1.5T of high carb food - that's a lot. if you look at the Low Numbers sticky, the suggestion is one teaspoon of gravy. You might be inadvertantly encouraging the initial jump up following the 40's and preventing surfing by that much HC. i'd try the 1 tsp of gravy and recheck in 20ish minutes. You want that long green surf if possible.

Overall, he's looking great! I wouldn't worry too much about the bouncing - it could be with feeding a little differently you can improve it. I gave Chris/China several links either yesterday or the day before on feeding the curve to try to improve bouncing - you might check her previous condos and read on that. i think it was yesterday.

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342+4.75/45 +8/61 - Dose/reduce help pl

Thanks, Julie, I appreciate your input, too, & I'll check Chris & China's post & see what we can do re carb %s.

I will reduce Tigger tonight since this is his 7th cycle.

Seems when I feed 9% (reg. is 4.5%) that doesn't have much effect if he's going lower, but shoots him straight up if he's trending higher. It's still hard for me to discern where Tigger's going to go with a 78 PMPS since he can drop so quickly. But - that's where your suggestion of 1 tsp hc with his reg 4.5% comes in, right?

I've tried 1tsp hc in the past & Tigger has (not always) blown right through that. He's a big cat, very long & right weight at 15 pounds. When Tigger was really sucking up the HC , 1T would give him a little boost for 1 hour, 2T would bring him up further longer.

With the lower doses, I can use less HC, I just didn't want to risk anything lower than the 45- he was dropping too fast.

On 8/22 I gave him 1.5T HC at his 49 & he surfed to 78 at his PMPS, then further. BUT -

:?: Are you saying that when Tigger FIRST drops into the 90's I should try giving him 1 teaspoon of HC to slow the drop & hopefully prevent the need for a massive injection of HC in the 40's? If so, I think I understand. ohmygod_smile

Since he's been in green more his rhythms are lasting days now instead of 1-2 when he was more pink/yellow. New learning curve.

Thanks again ANN & JULIE for your help & clarity! :YMHUG:

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

I fyou can catch the drop early, you probably don't need HC. A little MC or even LC can do the trick. Often we just use a drop of honey. I know a lot of beans resist going to Karo, but honey is a little lower on the glycemic index. It wears off for Tess in about 2 hours (ECID though) so we don't have the lingering effect of the HC keeping her up.

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

i'm saying when he first drops into greens to use LC - 2 teaspoons - to help him stay there. for whatever reason, that often works.

if he's coming down fast then yes, try HC as he first begins to drop. Otherwise, i'd go with his regular low carb.

i'm not seeing where I suggested HC with his regular food. It's possible, but i went back 3 condos and don't see it. I didn't do a lot of carb tweaking - in fact, none, so that's not my area of expertise. I gave punkin low carb all the time except when he needed high carb for low numbers. He didn't dive, however, so I never had to "fix" that issue. I'll have to defer to others who might be able to suggest more on that.

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

Julie - My error - I mis-read your LC suggestion as HC (!!!) So sorry to waste your time. And I read your post 3 times, too! I understand what you're saying now, & No, I haven't fed LC when Tig drops under 100, unless its at the PS or +1 - +3 times. I will try that, thank you again!


- THANKS, ANN! I'll definitely try that the next time. Start with 1 drop honey (will need to buy karo) & see what the effect is. With Tigger's sensitive stomach to new fuds, I'd like to stay as close to his regular foods & brands as possible.

Thanks so much again, I feel much better about what I'm doing - & will read the stickies & find those links Julie mentioned earlier!

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

I buy the hones straws that are sold as snacks. Just clip a tiny corner off and it is really easy to give just one or two drops. Windmill Farme has them at Thompson and 101.

 

Re: Tigger 8/25 AMPS/342 +4/83 +4.75/45 - Dose/reduce help p

Thanks, Ann! I already have a supply of those - one of the first tips you gave me when I first joined! If Tigger's still hanging this low at PMPS, I may need to use them tonight!

 

Well, I started this morning thinking we'd have to increase Tigger at some point in the next few days after he cleared his bounce. Ended up with another reduction, and a green swim that doesn't want to end, even with 3.5T 18% gravy & 1T 18% chicken! Tigger is on a roll again. 1T seems to keep him level for about 1 hour & then he starts dropping.

I'm not complaining, though, I just get worried now that his depot might be too full. When he's high I worry I need to increase; when he's low I worry his depot's too full & will get away from me. I think I should take up meditation! ohmygod_smile

Tigger's feeling great, tho'. Once he figures we're on the couch for a pj party, he settles in with me if I've got a comforter, or he pries open the LR antique hutch door, climbs onto a throw we keep on the bottom shelf, & makes himself right at home.

Sorry Ann, I didn't get a chance to try the LC with honey yet, but I won't forget! If he starts surfing safely, I may give it a try later tonight. Need to get past the hump, though.

 

Good luck tonight Suzanne - definitely looks like a PJ party again! :shock: :mrgreen: Surf safely now Tigger please!

If next time you think his depot might be too full, one option is to shoot a slightly smaller dose for one cycle then go back up to the new reduced dose. For example, tonight you could have done a .5U and that would drain the depot some before going back to .73U.

 

You must be tired of doing this every night, but Tigger sure looks good. What a nice green stretch today!