UK INFORMATION (Food, Insulin, Vit B12, and other 'need to know' stuff)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Elizabeth and Bertie, May 5, 2015.

  1. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi UK'ers. :bighug:
    I thought it might be helpful to collate some info for newcomers. Do let me know if you think of anything else that should be added to this post, or feel free to add additional info as a comment in the thread.
    - - - - - - -


    Finding out our cat is diabetic can come as a shock at first. But the good news is that diabetes IS treatable. With good care a diabetic cat can often live as long and as happily as a non-diabetic. What's more, quite a lot of cats have the potential to go into 'remission' from their diabetes and become diet-controlled diabetics, temporarily or permanently.
    The three keys to optimal diabetes treatment are; insulin, appropriate diet, and hometesting of cat's blood glucose.
    When dealing with diabetes 'knowledge is power'. So it's a good idea to spend some time learning how to best manage your cat's condition. First off, here's some essential 'need to know' stuff to help keep your cat safe. Further down the page there's info on insulin, diet,(including link to low carb food list); and also other info including using methyl B12 to help with the common symptom of 'neuropathy' (weak back legs).

    URINE TESTING
    KETONES: It is advisable to monitor all newly diagnosed diabetic kitties for ketones; and also to check again whenever the kitty seems unwell or is off her food.
    Ketones, (created when the body breaks down fat for energy) are dangerous for diabetics, and can lead to a life-threatening condition called DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). Fortunately, testing for ketones is simple, and just involves dipping the end of a ketone test strip into a drop of pee, timing it, and reading off the result. Anything above a 'trace' result is considered to be a reason to talk to your vet, ASAP.
    Crumpling clingfilm loosely in the litter tray (over the litter) is often a good way to catch a pee sample.
    'Ketostix' or 'Keto-Diastix' should be available from most pharmacies. 'Ketostix' test only for ketones, 'Keto-Diastix' test for ketones and for urine glucose. (The latter may be useful if you are not testing your cat's blood glucose at home. But it doesn't give 'real time' information about your cat's blood glucose. It only shows you how much glucose your kitty is excreting in her urine since the last time she peed.)

    Note: Be aware that not all ketones are registered by the ketone test strips. If you notice that your kitty's breath smells fruity or like acetone this can also indicate ketones.

    Some helpful info on urine testing from the Sugarpet website:
    http://www.sugarpet.net/urine.html
    - - - - - - - -

    HOMETESTING
    FDMB strongly recommend 'hometesting' (testing your cat's blood glucose at home).
    Once learned, hometesting can quickly become completely routine. However, while some people (and their cats) take to it like proverbial 'ducks to water', others do find it a little harder to get the hang of at first. Be patient. You will 'get it'! And most cats come to be just fine with the process - especially if they are rewarded with treats... ;)
    In a nutshell, testing typically involves pricking the outer edge of your cat's ear to get a teensy weensy drop of blood, transferring that blood to a test strip in a glucose meter (the end of the test strip will suck up the drop of blood from the edge of your cat's ear), and reading off the result on your glucose meter. Then reward your cat with a treat or a cuddle. Job done!

    Want to give it a try? Scroll down the page for information on glucose meters in the UK.
    And you can get lots of advice about testing on the main forum. Just ask.



    IMPORTANT BLOOD GLUCOSE INFO FOR NEWCOMERS

    For newcomers to feline diabetes it is generally recommended here that NO insulin is given if the blood glucose is below 11 mmol/L as measured on a human glucose meter.
    If you're using the Alphatrak meter you may want to raise that number a tad.
    If it is just a little too low you can wait for 20 - 30 minutes without feeding to see if the blood glucose comes up high enough to give the shot.
    This initial 'no shot' number of 11 mmol/L is just to try to give some buffer of safety while you're learning how the insulin is working in your cat's body.
    Note: If your cat has had ketones different advice may apply. Ask on the forum if you need more info.

    The normal blood glucose range for a non-diabetic cat is considered here to be around 2.7 to 6.6 on a human meter, or 3.6 to 8.3 on a pet meter such as Alphatrak. The numbers you aim for will depend on the insulin you're using, your experience, and your own cat's response to insulin. You may or may not be able to aim for numbers toward the lower end of the normal range while using insulin. Safety is key!

    Numbers below 2.7 on a human meter, or 3.6 on an Alphatrak can be considered potentially hypoglycemic; and if you see these numbers, or your cat's blood glucose is dropping fast toward these numbers, appropriate action must be taken to keep your cat's blood glucose at a safe level.
    Do put together a little 'hypo kit', consisting of high carb food and a simple sugar source such as glucose, honey, or syrup. Also make sure you have plenty of blood glucose test strips. You may well never need this but it is useful to be able to grab it quickly if you do need it.
    Do read the emergency hypo info here (link below):
    How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

    ~ If in doubt, post on the main forum for help, or call your vet.


    INSULINS IN THE UK - and other diabetic supplies
    Your vet might prescribe an insulin made specifically for animals, or one made for humans.
    The ISFM (International Society of Feline Medicine) recommends the use of longer-lasting insulins, Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc over lente insulins such as Caninsulin. The full ISFM guidelines on managing feline diabetes are here:
    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X15571880

    In the UK there is a rule that a vet should prescribe veterinary medicines first before (should it become necessary) prescribing a human one. If it turns out that the veterinary insulin isn't controlling the diabetes sufficiently well your vet is able, by law, to prescribe a human alternative. However, some vets are unwilling to prescribe a human alternative. And, despite the 'rule', a teensy weensy minority of vets (who prefer to use human insulins) will actually prescribe a human insulin as the first choice.
    Attitudes between vets vary a lot when it comes to prescribing insulin for your cat...

    VETERINARY INSULINS
    Caninsulin
    and Prozinc are the the most commonly prescribed insulins for cats in the UK.

    The RVC has said the current guidelines are that all newly diagnosed cases be prescribed Prozinc (the only long-lasting insulin in the UK currently licensed for cats), and that there is no reason to prescribe Caninsulin.

    Cats who are currently on Caninsulin and who are not doing well on it may benefit from switching to Prozinc (or one of the human insulins, such as Lantus).
    If a cat is doing well on Caninsulin there is no reason to change.

    The RVC's research found that Prozinc can drop the blood glucose more slowly and last longer in the cat's system; thereby giving overall better glycaemic control than Caninsulin. This can lead to improved clinical signs, and an increased chance of remission.
    Even so, many vets still seem to prescribe Caninsulin. Prozinc has only been available in the UK for a couple of years, and old prescribing habits seem slow to change. Caregivers may need to be pro-active in specifically asking their vet for Prozinc.

    SYRINGES
    Caninsulin and Prozinc are U40 insulins; that means they have 40 units of insulin per ml of liquid. They are used with corresponding U40 syringes.
    Syringes are usually far cheaper to buy online than from your vet. You could use the Caninsulin or Prozinc branded syringes, but many UK'ers use the generic U40 syringes as they are very much cheaper. However, these are all 0.5ml which, while the same size as the Caninsulin syringes, are larger than the (0.3ml) Prozinc syringes.
    There are some generics made by VetUK, and there are also 'Sol-Vet' syringes, which cost a little more. (Some UK folks consider that the Sol-Vet U40's have clearer markings):
    VetUK U40 syringes: https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...nsulin-syringe-with-needle-box-of-100-p-11335
    Sol-Vet U40 syringes:https://www.petprescription.co.uk/p...ringes-29g-sol-m-can-be-used-with-caninsulin/
    https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/sol-m-u40-insulin-caninsulin-syringes-0-5ml

    For basic information on using, handling and storing Caninsulin and Prozinc see the FDMB info stickies in the Caninsulin and Prozinc subforums (links below). You can also post in these forums for advice specific to your insulin. But if you need help quickly please post in the main health forum.

    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
    Caninsulin/Vetsulin subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

    BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS
    Prozinc/PZI subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/


    HUMAN INSULINS
    Because cats metabolize insulin quite quickly, some vets will prescribe longer-lasting insulins that are made for humans, such as Lantus/glargine, Levemir, or Hypurin bovine PZI (the latter is unique to the UK; but is sadly soon to be discontinued).

    The human insulins - Lantus/glargine, Levemir, and Hypurin bovine PZI, are all U100, and have 100 units of insulin per ml. They are used with the corresponding U100 syringes.
    Most UK'ers use BD U100 syringes with half unit markings ('BD microfine + demi' syringes). They are available from VetUK (link below), but also (because human diabetics use them too) from other places as well.
    https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...-0-3ml-u100-insulin-syringes-box-of-100-p-296

    For basic info on Lantus and Levemir see the info stickies on the Lantus and Levemir forum. And you can also post on this forum for advice specific to your insulin.
    Lantus and Levemir subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

    UK BLOOD GLUCOSE METERS
    You can use a glucose meter made for pets or one made for humans. Both are fine. They do however 'read' the blood glucose slightly differently. It's important to be aware of this.
    The most popular human meters in the UK currently (Oct 2018) are the Accuchek meters and the SD Codefree. (Other UK meters are just fine, they're just not generally used as much here). The most popular pet meter is the Alphatrak.

    The main cost of testing is the test strips
    . The SD Codefree is currently the cheapest meter to use. The Alphatrak is probably the most expensive.

    Pet meters, such as Alphatrak, usually give slightly higher readings than human meters, and may give readings closer to those that you would see at your vet's clinic. They are more expensive to use than human meters.
    If you use an Alphatrak meter please let people here know this if you are asking for advice. And add 'Alphatrak' to your 'signature'.

    Human meters usually give slightly lower readings than pet meters. And they may give a reading slightly lower than your vet might get. They are cheaper to run (sometimes much cheaper) than pet meters such as Alphatrak. Most people here currently use human meters.

    Note: All of the insulin dosing protocols used here were devised using data from human glucose meters. So an adjustment will need to be made if you are using a pet meter.
    - - - - - - -

    WHAT TO FEED A DIABETIC CAT?
    FDMB recommends that diabetic cats eat wet/canned/raw foods that have less than 10% calories from carbohydrates. (And some cats do best on carb levels in the region of 4% - 6%.)
    If your cat has other health issues, for example kidney disease, IBD, or pancreatitis, this may further affect your food choices.

    A note of caution about switching to a low carb diet...
    If your cat is already on insulin and is currently eating a higher carb food then we recommend that you only transition to lower carb food if you can hometest (test your cat’s blood glucose at home) and are able to monitor the effect of the change on your cat’s blood glucose.
    That’s because lowering the carb content of the diet can greatly reduce your cat’s blood glucose level, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced accordingly.
    Too much insulin can cause hypoglycaemia.

    If your cat has not yet started on insulin this is the perfect time to transition safely to low carb wet food. Be sure that your cat's blood glucose is properly tested after the diet change, so that any reduction in blood glucose can be taken into account when deciding the insulin dosage.

    POPULAR FOODS
    Popular foods amongst UK’ers currently include: Butcher’s Classic, Bozita (cans and tetrapaks), Felix pouches in jelly, Toplife chicken dinner, Sheba 'fine flakes', Lily’s Kitchen, Thrive complete, Smilla, Granatapet, Catz Finefood, and Nature’s Menu.

    POPULAR ONLINE SUPPLIERS include: Zooplus http://www.zooplus.co.uk/; Bitiba http://www.bitiba.co.uk/; Nature’s Menu http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/; Fetch (offshoot of Ocado): https://fetch.co.uk/


    CAT TREATS/REWARDS
    Many of the most popular commercial cat treats are laden with carbohydrates. Avoid if possible. :stop:
    Try to stick with treats that are entirely (or mostly) made from meat or fish.
    Current low carb favourites among UK FDMB members include Thrive freeze dried treats (widely available), and Cosma freeze dried pure meat treats from Zooplus. (Avoid the Cosma ‘Thai’ treats as these contain rice.)

    Other 100% meat treats include: Wilko freeze dried chicken breast or duck breast treats; Hi Life freeze dried meat treats, chicken or duck; Applaws Tuna Loin Cat Treat; Rosewood 'Leaps & Bounds' Premium Meat Cat Treats - chicken, duck, duck liver, and fish; Orijen Freeze Dried Cat Treats -‘Tundra’, ‘Original’, ‘Wild Boar’, ‘Lamb’, ‘Regional Red’; Tigeria ‘Sticklettis’ Cat Sticks - chicken or tuna (only from Zooplus); Zoolove air dried meat treats; chicken or duck (Zooplus own brand).

    Little pieces of plainly cooked or raw meat, or cooked fish, also make good treats. And some cats like a tiny piece of cheese or a lick of plain unsweetened yoghurt.

    Treats to hide tablets in - and make pill-giving easier;
    Nature's Menu soft 95% meat treats, 'chicken & liver' and 'salmon & trout' flavours, seem to be really good for this. Break off a piece, flatten, and mould around the pill. (If you find the treats too stiff or dry, just moisten with a touch of water.) Then follow with a couple of pieces of treat that have no pill inside to leave the cat on a 'happy' :rolleyes:.


    DRY FOOD

    We do not recommend dry food for cats.
    Firstly, almost all dry foods are far too high in carbohydrate. Secondly, dry foods are....um.....'dry'. Cats have a low thirst drive and may not get all the water they need on a dry diet.
    However, some cats come here 'addicted' to dry foods, and it can take time to transition them to low carb wet. In the meantime, it may be possible to transition them to a dry food that is lower in carbs than the one the kitty is currently eating.
    There are also some cats who seem determined to only eat dry food despite their caregiver's best efforts to convert them to wet. So these foods may also be suitable for these kitties.

    There are currently (Oct 2018) three dry kibble foods in the UK that are relatively low in carbohydrates.
    Porta 21 Sensible 'grain free' from Zooplus or Bitiba is about 10.8% calories from carbs. This has been tried and tested by folks with diabetic kitties, and has for a while been considered to be the lowest-carb dry kibble food in Europe. There are, however, two grain-free Thrive PremiumPlus foods that may be suitable. The 'chicken' flavour seems to work out at around 9.4% calories from carbs. The 'chicken & turkey' seems to be even lower at around 8.7% calories from carbs. These should be fairly widely available.
    Note: Be aware that the Thrive PremiumPlus 'salmon & herring' flavour is NOT sufficiently low carb...

    There is also Ziwi Peak air-dried cat food which is less than 10% calories from carbs. This is really dried meat with nutritional additives, so the texture is not like that of regular kibble.

    Be aware that, if switching to a lower carb food - even if that food is dry - it is still important to be monitoring the cat's blood glucose at home and reducing the insulin dose if necessary in order to avoid hypoglycemia.


    HIGH CARB FOOD – for low blood glucose emergencies.
    You may never need to use this, but it is advisable to have some higher carb food on hand just in case you need to raise your cat’s blood glucose. See more info on the Gourmet Gold ‘in gravy’ foods here: UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit. (Make sure you get the 'gravy' ones, the 'pate' ones are low carb.)
    It can be helpful to jot the carb level on the can with a marker pen so you don’t feed the high-carb by accident! It has happened... ;)

    It’s also important to make sure you have some source of simple sugar available, such as honey or liquid glucose (the kind sold in tubes in the baking section of supermarkets is fine); or some ‘Glucogel’ (sold specifically for diabetics).
    If you think your cat’s blood glucose is dropping too low please post on the forum, or call your vet for advice.


    'CONVALESCENCE' FOODS - For when an older or sick kitty needs a little extra support.
    Liquivite is a liquid food for cats. The consistency is a bit like thick chicken soup. Many cats find it very palatable, especially if warmed. It is low in carbohydrates, and phosphorous, but also fairly low in calories. Very useful for helping kitties to stay nourished and hydrated. For more info see here: http://www.liquivite.co.uk/
    Gourmet Gold pates have been used by some folks for 'syringe feeding'. The food is smooth and quite easily mixed with water to make it a good consistency for syringing. Miamor pates from Zooplus would probably do a similar job.


    UK FOOD LIST <<< click on link for long list of suitable foods
    Note: Be aware that some apparently low carb foods might still spike your cat's blood glucose levels. There are a number of possible reasons for this, but it may be due to a food intolerance (not uncommon).
    Sometimes, finding out what works for your cat will be a matter of 'trial and error'.

    Notes on the list:
    The percentage of calories from carbs has been worked out using the label values for protein, fat, fibre, ash, and moisture (usually called 'typical analysis').
    These values may not always be an accurate representation of what is in the tin/pouch at any given time. Values can fluctuate.

    The list includes some foods that can be bought in supermarkets and pet stores; and some that can only be bought online. All price ranges are included.

    The first three columns give the brand and flavour of the food and where it can be bought.
    The 4th (yellow) column shows the percentage of calories from carbohydrates.
    The 5th (blue) column shows the dry matter phosphorous level, if known (for CRF/CKD kitties) where that information is available.

    The section on the far right of the list gives the 'Typical Analysis' data as it is shown on the cat food label. This is for reference, or in case folks want to do further calculations.

    Ingredients to avoid feeding my cat?
    Some things you may wish to be aware of:
    Cats with CRF/CKD may wish to avoid cranberry (acidifying) and dandelion (diuretic) . (Thanks to Mogs (Critter Mom) for raising awareness of this.)
    More info on this can be found on the Tanya CRF website:
    http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#cautions
    Allergies/intolerances: Beef, fish/salmon, chicken, grain and soya seem to be most common.
    Carageenan has been observed to affect some kitties. (And carageenan is known to be an inflammatory agent.)
    'Vegetable protein extract' is used in a number of cat foods and has been found to raise blood glucose in a minority of kitties, sometimes quite dramatically. ('VPE' may be made from soya or other vegetable protein). Felix 'As Good As It Looks' seems, historically, to have been the main culprit in this regard, but there are newer foods that also list this in their ingredients.
    Soya: Some folks choose to avoid this because of a possible link to thryoid problems. Dr Lisa Pierson of catinfo.org says;
    "Note that there is a negative relationship between soy and thyroid health. Given how common hyperthyroidism is in cats, I will not feed soy to any cat in my care.”
    www.catinfo.org
    - - - - - - -

    OTHER GENERAL INFO

    METHYL B12 FOR DIABETIC NEUROPATHY (weak back legs)
    Back leg weakness is fairly common in newly diagnosed diabetics and those who remain in high blood glucose levels. This can resolve entirely! Many people have found that supplementing methyl B12 (methylcobalamin) helps speed the healing process. (Although some cats will not recover completely unless they get into a healthier blood glucose range.)

    People in the US often use a methyl B12 supplement called 'Zobaline' specifically made for cats. And UK folks used to use that also, but it has now become expensive to import.
    One alternative is to use 'Dr's Best fully active B12' methylcobalamin. To equal the 3mg Zobaline dose you will need two of the Dr's Best capsules. Zobaline also contains a small amount of folic acid. And if you want to copy the Zobaline formula you can add the folic acid also. One drop of 'BioCare Vitasorb Folic Acid' liquid should contain the 200 mcg necessary (but check the product details beforehand to be sure).

    'Bodykind' is one place where both supplements are available:
    Folic acid: https://www.bodykind.com/product/81...id-folic-acid-15ml.aspx#ctl00_cpBody_contents
    Dr's Best B12: https://www.bodykind.com/product/4749-best-fully-active-b12-60-x-1500mcg-vegicaps.aspx?Referer=Froogle_Best-Fully-Active-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=price comparison&utm_campaign=Best-Fully-Active-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps&gclid=CjwKEAjwps2_BRC5jduHor-h8xESJADGT-Lt7IdposUdW87VD_9f6kVU9lGGBcs984M-fsFHOpJdkxoCP3Tw_wcB#ctl00_cpBody_contents

    Methylcobalamin has no discernable taste, so can mix easily into a little bit of the cat's food. :cat:

    POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY - another possible cause of leg weakness...
    Some diabetic kitties can also become low on potassium, especially if they are peeing a lot. A blood test will be needed to see if the cat's potassium levels are low. If low, potassium can be supplemented. But this must be done carefully, under the guidance of your vet.


    CAT FOOD INGREDIENT GLOSSARY – What’s in your cat’s food…?
    There are a number of glossaries online, and it’s hard to find one which is entirely impartial (everyone has an angle…). But this one seems fairly good:
    http://www.pet-shopper.co.uk/static/pet-food-ingredients
    For balance on some of the above (especially regarding animal derivatives/by-products) see also the following info from the US Catinfo.org site (written by Dr Lisa Pierson)
    http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods#Ingredients


    ONLINE CARB CALCULATOR
    http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
    The above is a very nifty tool.
    If you enter the percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture from the cat food label it will calculate the calories from carbs per 100g of food. If you want to go further and calculate the ‘percentage of calories from carbs’ you just grab a calculator and do this: Divide the calories from carbs per 100g by the total calories per 100g, and then multiply by 100. Bingo!

    DRY MATTER CALCULATOR
    http://fnae.org/dmb.html?inputboxm=77&inputboxi=1.7&button.x=75&button.y=21&button=Click
    Some things are best compared on a dry matter basis; phosphorous for example (for cats with kidney disease.) This 'dry matter calculator' is a useful tool for this; and could also be useful for comparing fat content (especially for those pancreatitis kitties who’ve been found to benefit from lower fat intake).


    GETTING A CAT USED TO INJECTIONS OR HOMETESTING
    Many cats are fine from the outset with insulin injections and/or hometesting. Establishing a routine, and the use of rewards, can help a lot. Many people will just give the cat her insulin injection while she's eating a meal, for example, and all is fine.
    But for some sensitive cats it can be helpful to deliberately build positive associations to make the process easier and more comfortable, even 'pleasurable'...
    For cats who enjoy food or treats it's possible to use the pleasure association of food to make the injections easier. This really good little video shows the principles of 'desensitisation and counter-conditioning':





     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Reason for edit: Oct 2018 updating
  2. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    @Elizabeth and Bertie this is a really fantastic resource that you have drawn up for us UKers. It must have taken you a fair while to draw it all together and I for one and very thankful that you done this.

    Thank you very much :bighug:
     
  3. Amy Dobson

    Amy Dobson Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Awesome, what fantastic resources! Thank you from me and Murphy too!
     
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  4. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    @Elizabeth and Bertie
    Just came across this thread of yours, some fantastic links, will be a godsend when placing my next food order with zooplus for George.
    Thank you for taking the time to put this together.

    ps George and I live in Spain now, we moved from Camberley, not a million miles from you and Bertie.:cat::cat::cat:
     
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  5. Sushi The Cat

    Sushi The Cat Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    @Elizabeth and Bertie
    This is precious, Elizabeth!! I can't thank you enough!! Particularly for the dry food, since my cat is giving us a hard time after a couple of months on exclusive wet... He now refuses it...
    But thanks to you I am already on the hunt for Ziwipeaks! It won't hurt to try!!

    Lots of love and thank yous!
    Sara
    :bighug:
     
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  6. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Bumping up this post for any new UK members...
    .
     
  7. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    @Elizabeth and Bertie

    Eliz, now that things with Murinka have calmed down a bit, I continue to do my research as far as food is concerned. Your list is super great, unfortunately the composition of the same product sold in my country slightly differs and some time even more than slightly.
    I am still testing what she likes to eat, I have to find more sorts of food because she can get easily bored with just one type ...

    Would you be please so nice and let me know what formula did you use to calculate your list? I googled something but sometimes I get the same result and sometimes not. I think I will have to build up my own list specific for the Czech republic which Im of course willing to share if someone else from this part of the country appears here:)
    This great tool http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html often gives N/A values :(
    The formula I somehow figured out but not sure is correct: 100 - (%protein+fat+fiber+moisture+ash) = %carb but I want to now % calories from carb. I found somewhere that 1g of carbs means cca 4 cal. My question is: analytic analysis refers to what quantity of food? If I read analytic analysis on the etiquette, it means analytic analysis of 100 g or does it refer to the actual weight of the pouch (sometimes 85g ..) Maybe it's crystal clear but I simply can't figure it out:confused:.

    Thank you!
    Helena
     
  8. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Helena @Helena & Murinka ,

    The formula I use calculates the 'percentage of calories that come from carbohydrates'. That's the comparison figure we usually use here.
    It is a similar formula to the online Scheyderweb calculator, but also has a tiny extra calculation at the end.

    The formula is this
    First add up the food %'s for protein, fat, fibre, ash and moisture. And deduct that from 100%. That will give you the percentage of carbs by weight.

    Then you calculate the calories:
    Protein x 3.5 = ?
    Fat x 8.5 = ?
    Carb x 3.5 = ?
    And add up those results. That gives the 'total calories per 100g' of food.

    Finally, to get the 'percentage of calories from carbs' you do this.
    Divide the 'number of calories from carbs per 100g' by the 'total calories per 100g', and then multiply by 100. That figure should be the 'percentage of calories from carbs.

    I do have a rather ancient Excel spreadsheet that does my calculations for me. And I will gladly email it to you. Just PM me your email address if you'd like it. :)

    (Alternatively, you can use the Scheyderweb online calculator to get the nutrient values per 100g of food, and then just do the last calculation above.)

    Oh, do aware that sometimes the food labelling is wonky. If protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture add up to more than 100% the calculation won't work...

    Helena, which foods are labelled differently to the UK foods? Maybe the formula has just been updated and I need to update that on my list...

    Eliz
     
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  9. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Helena!

    I see Murinka has a 3.7!!! :D
    .
     
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  10. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Eliz, thanks a lot, it would be great to have your excel sheet, I will PM you.

    Re the different composition, I checked once again (MAC's pouches concretely) and it looks like I was mistaken, the composition looks the same but the problem is that often the food has different names here and it's difficult to find out whether it is actually really the same.
     
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  11. herman_and_weasel

    herman_and_weasel New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2016
    This is such a great resource. I was trying to find out what to feed Herman, my bengal cat, who has a super-complex medical history. He is on prozinc twice a day (I also check his sugars twice a day). I have been feeding him Hills m/d, but I think my vet will promote products they stock in-house, so was trying to find alternatives.
     
  12. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Just for your info there is a company called Bitiba.co.uk that although seem to be under the same umbrella as Zooplus, are selling their pet supplies at a slightly less cost ..... the only difference seems to be that their minimum order is £39 and not £29 as is the case with Zooplus. Delivery was just as prompt.
     
  13. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Eliz, I come back to my impression that the composition of some food may vary from country to country.

    I found that Sheba Fine Flakes might have a bit different composition in countries like Germany, Austria or Czech republic where it's called Delicatesse in Gelee, than in UK.
    Well Im not 100% sure that it's the same product but I believe so.
    Here's the link to the UK site https://www.uk.sheba.com/products/favourites/fines-flakes-in-jelly-poultry-collection-12x85g-pouch
    Here's the link to the German site of the product https://www.sheba.de/produkte/genus...gelee-geflugel-variation-8x85g-portionsbeutel

    And unfortunately according to the UK site, it looks that they changed a bit the composition in comparison to your list as well :(
    Why manufacturers just can't stick to their composition?!
     
  14. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Helena,
    Thanks for that info. :)

    Yes, that would make life a lot easier for us!
    Mogs @Critter Mom sent me a message to say that the UK formula has changed. So I need to look into that and update the info on the UK list. Will try to do that today if possible.... :bighug:

    Eliz
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Eliz - there's a mismatch between the as fed analysis on the website and the values on the actual packs for the new version of Sheba in the UK.

    Sorry I can't be of more help with this right now; it's too painful. Very bad times here.


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Oh, thanks for that Mogs.

    And please know that we're holding you very tightly in our hearts... :bighug::bighug::bighug: xxx
    .
     
  17. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Bit of a heads up, Lily's Kitchen refreshed their whole cat range in September. WARNING: they haven't flushed through the supply chain yet!

    It seems that carbs have come down across the board (please do not take my advice here - but my amateur sleuthing based on the website figures suggest that even the non-organic range now fits the bill except Lamb?) and the big tins have been discontinued.

    Edit: marketing release - http://www.lilyskitchen.co.uk/compl...e=Facebook&utm_medium=Sophie&utm_campaign=Cat

    Edit x2: I wonder if one can tell by the new heart-shaped packaging?
     
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  18. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thank you for this info! :bighug:
    And yes, things seem to be in a state of flux with LK at the moment (I'll rather miss those large tins....:rolleyes:)... Will update the list with the new foods shortly (and also update/add some other foods too....) x
    .
     
  19. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Just had a delivery - Organic Chicken Dinner (changed recipe by the looks of it).

    Coming out at 0% carbs. Protein - 9.5%, Fat 6%, Ash 2.2%, Fibres 0.3%, Moisture 82%.

    Not sure much change in terms of the ingredients - it's still chicken 30%, Pork 12%, Beef 10%, Fish 4%, Carrots and Minerals.

    Oh here's a big change - 85g trays now instead of 100g!
     
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  20. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Sky loves Lily's Kitchen so that may be my food of choice for her now. The food list is a really good resource so thanks for putting it together :)
     
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  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Watch out for Lily's Kitchen foods that contain carrageenan (it's an inflammatory agent).


    Mogs
    .
     
  22. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Thanks Critter Mom - didn't realise that. It's an absolute minefield!
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    And then some. I bitterly regret taking vets' word for what was good to feed my little ones instead of educating myself about cat nutrition. When one starts looking at what goes into some foods it makes one's heart sink (and many Rx foods are some of the worst offenders).


    Mogs
    .
     
  24. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Great info about foods.
    I still make my own and somehow resist commercial food for Rocky. After doing it for so long I find it easy although I have to admit that it requires a lot of planning.
    So I buy mince turkey thigh (it is the cheapest meat), sometimes lamb or beef and often we have wild meat, add to it specially prepared egg shell powder and a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar which helps with absorption of calcium, add taurine supplement, vitamin B complex, various oils or fats, egg yolk, some herbs and a little bit of psyllium husk powder. In addition to that I give Rocky fresh offal like kidney, liver and heart (from wild rabbit and pheasant etc) often as I freeze small portions. I make a batch for a week, freeze daily portions and make little portions in the ice cube tray and freeze them to be used as feed at night dispensed frozen in an automated feeder so by the time he needs to eat his midnight meal it is defrosted but not spoiled.
    Somehow in my head I have the idea that raw food is best. Of course sometimes I worry about bacteria contamination. But if we consider what they eat in the wild - there is more bacteria there, many times I found just a remain of a mouse or bird with the rest being consumed by Rocky.
    I remember my discussion with the vet about cat's diet - she insisted that I feed him dry diabetic so I asked her to show me the ingredients. I told her that wheat, corn, soy and vegetable protein has no place in cat's diet and firmly refused to buy prescription food. She kept saying she had good results with that food! Over my body, I want best for Rocky.
    If somebody does make their own food could you please share your ideas.

    Marlena:cat:
     
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  25. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    I tried to switch my two to raw food but they were having none of it! I think if I have any kittens in the future I will have them on raw.

    Nearly got caught out buying treats today - was going to buy the Festive treats by Lily's kitchen. Looking at ingredients is now becoming second nature. Was very surprised that potato was listed as the highest ingredient! They went back on the shelf.

    Sky doesn't really like treats but I want to give her something to act as a reward for when she has her bloods taken - she really doesn't like it (not helped by the fact that she isn't bleeding easily so has to be done multiple times).
     
  26. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    I think I'm incredibly lucky with Rocky when it comes to food. He eats absolutely everything and never refused any food so switching him to raw was no problem at all! But I do hear about difficulties others have and there are cats which are finicky eaters - very difficult.
    For treats I often use cooked shrimps! They are quite convenient because you keep them in the freezer and take one or two when needed, you can run one under tap hot water and you have a treat! Cooked chicken is good too (you can also keep small pieces frozen and take one when needed) or Nature's Menu has good treats but they are a bit smelly.
    With regards to blood testing I find the only way I can get blood from Rocky is to use a small plastic bottle filled with very warm water and massage his ear with it for about a minute. My vet just lance without warming the ear but then she has to squeeze the ear to get some blood but when I try this Rocky is not happy.
     
  27. Max99

    Max99 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Thank you for this information and links! My cat has always been on dry food (she has hypoallergenic food) and I didn't know about cats having a low thirst drive. I'm going to ask the vet next time I go about possibly swapping to another food.
     
  28. Max99

    Max99 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Hello,

    I have to prick my cat a few times also before enough blood comes out to take the test. I don't know if she'll like treats but I've always been under the impression she can't have them (before being diabetic) as she has food and skin allergies. She does love being brushed though, so today I started brushing her just after I'd taken a glucose sample. I'm hoping this will help with her. Would this be something that may help with your cat Sky if she doesn't respond to the treats?
     
  29. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I use these for treats, http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/...a_cat_snacks/cosma_snacks_single_tubes/283431

    They have no additives, preservatives, 100% meat, they are either chicken/rabbit/fish/tuna. Depending on what your kitty is allergic to, they may not be a problem.
     
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  30. jroyston

    jroyston New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Thank you so much for all that work you`ve done ! I`ve had so much trouble getting my cat to eat the "regular" diabetic food/pate/dietary food. He`s been on a diet for about 9 months now and the carb details aren`t explained on the boxes nor packs. Or at least not so I can translate them. Now he will be able to get some tasty food and, hopefully, I will be able to get his weight down. I`ve had so much trouble finding out the details and info you have provided! Thank you again!
     
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  31. Fiona1

    Fiona1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2018
    Thanks so much! Just done 2 big orders online :)
     
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  32. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Original post updated to remove some out of date info; and to include some basic info on UK insulins and other supplies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  33. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Maybe this is useful. Since HappyKitty closed down, I've found another website where you can order MAC's heart and liver + lamb and turkey. The latter is the favourite with my cat. Zooplus has other MAC flavours but not these ones. Also, the price on this website is better than it was on HappyKitty and Zooplus. https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/
     
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  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thanks for that suggestion, Iryna. :bighug:
    Looks like Zoo-bio have quite a few foods that aren't available on Zooplus. Will start doing some carb calculations and see if there are other foods that we can add to the list.

    Eliz x
     
  35. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    @Elizabeth and Bertie @Jill & Alex (GA) Could this information be made into a sticky so that the information could be found more easily? It would be so helpful to refer new members from the UK to all this, and also to inform present UK members of resources they may not be aware of.
     
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  36. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    More stickys aren't going to happen. Robert prefers us to add info to existing stickys or add as articles in the Health Links/FAQ section of the message board.

    That said, this same info has been available since 2015 in the INDEX: Health Links/FAQs ----> scroll down to the "Food/Feeding" section ----> UK Diabetic Cat Food (includes some supplies) and UK Cat Food List.

    However, in an effort to make it more visible, I could add add a section for country-specific information to the INDEX: Health Links/FAQs and then rename and link the UK Diabetic Cat Food List to something like "UK Diabetic Food List, Insulin, and Supplies". This would allow a space for the same to be done for other countries if someone wants to tackle the project.

    What do you think? Or do you have a better idea?
     
  37. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Thanks very much for the response, Jill. I don't have a better idea, and I guess I missed or forgot about the UK section in the FAQs, sorry about that. I do think that it might be helpful if you did change the name from UK Diabetic Cat Food List to UK Diabetic Food List, Insulin, and Supplies, since it provides more info than food. That is an excellent idea. Then, as you said, it would allow space for other countries, if/when a similar project went forward.
    There is so much wonderful information here on the board, sometimes I really have to look to see where I read that information. I probably need to just pretend I am brand new again and start over, then do it again and again.
     
    Jill & Alex (GA) likes this.
  38. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Finding info has been a problem which is why I made a rough working copy of an Index in the Health Links/FAQs Forum. I thought it might help members find general info. It still needs a lot of work. Hoping to fine tune it this Fall.
     
  39. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Just a thought a lot of the info is useful for other eurEuroE members, I get stocks from UK as I've not been able to find them here in Spain. I direct our European members to relevant sites when I see them having trouble getting hold of stuff, they don't often think to look under the UK list. Perhaps there could be some way of highlighting that the info found here may also be useful to them?
     
  40. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Thanks so much for this information, we had our SS calculating the Wet and Dry carb % as per the Scheyderweb calculator, but hadn't realised the need to then apply those multipliers to the values and do the rest of the calculations!
    All fixed up now, and quite surprised / shocked by the results of the food that we have been feeding our Dusty!
     
  41. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Hi all, we are new to the FDMB, and being from the UK thought we'd drop in to say hi :)

    We would like to get Dusty some B12 to help with her hind-leg weakness (suspect caused by high BG for prolonged period), and wondered where other UK folks sourced it?
    She's had one shot at the vets (at my request) but we don't really want to be taking her there every time for it, and we would be happy to do it at home (after all, we're already having to do insulin anyway!)
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
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  42. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thanks for that question, Schmill (which I think has since been answered in another thread?). Because of your question I've now added some info on B12 to the first post in this thread to make it easier for other UK folks to find.
     
  43. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Hi.
    Just a question about human glucose monitors.
    My cat sox has just recently been diagnosed and have a freestyle freedom lite glucose monitor at home (had 2 readings so far one of 18.8 and 12.4 over 2days) and just wondering if this monitor is adiquade to use.
    Thank you for any information you can give.
     
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  44. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Becki. Welcome! I’m sure your meter is fine. Just be aware that human meters will read a bit lower than a pet specific meter. Most of us use them though because pet meter test strips are way too expensive! Please come and start your own thread so we can better explain and answer any other questions you may have
     
  45. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Thank you I will do. How do you start a new thread?
     
  46. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
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  47. SONICsteff

    SONICsteff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Hey!

    Our old man, who’s 14 in March, has just been diagnosed with diabetes. We’ve been given his insulin and injections, but we’ve also been given some Hills m/d dry and wet food for him.

    He’s been on Lily’s Kitchen and Thrive for the past two weeks and I see they rank well on the food list for low carbs, am I okay to just continue with his current healthier and cheaper diet, as opposed to starting him on then wheat filled Hills stuff?

    Any advice for a new Feline Diabetes Mum would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks.
     
  48. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    If there a low carb food it should be fine for you to continue with them.
    My vet tried to recommend the Purina special diet from them but I feed mine the butcher's tinned food as it's around 7% carbs and started insulin in November and just had 2 weeks with out insulin and staying fine on just the food.
     
  49. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Hi! You really don't need special prescription food to treat a diabetic cat, in fact shop-bought brands are often lower in carbs and therefore more appropriate. Vets are under pressure to sell prescription foods as they (probably) get a percentage of profits from the company, but Lily's Kitchen or Thrive are good bets. There are plenty of other options too, from supermarkets, pet superstores or online suppliers that you can buy from, as per the list.

    So yes, I'd continue with the existing diet and ask the vet to take the Hill's back for a refund. Good decision!
     
  50. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi, are you testing your kitty's blood glucose at home? For a kitty already on insulin it's really important to only switch to lower carb diet if you are hometesting, can monitor the effect of the diet change on the kitty's blood glucose, and can reduce the insulin as necessary.
    Reducing the carb content in the diet can reduce the blood glucose a lot in some kitties, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced also so as to avoid hypoglycemia. For a cat switching from dry food to low carb wet food the insulin dose may need to be reduced by one to two units, or even more...

    If you've switched from Hill's MD to Lily's and Thrive since starting insulin, that's quite a BIG reduction in carb content.... Please do keep a close eye on your kitty. And please, if you're not already doing so, do try to learn to hometest his blood glucose at home. It's really not nearly as hard as it sounds and we can help you learn to do it. Just post on the main health forum if you'd like more info. We're here to help. :bighug:

    Eliz
     
  51. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    My cat is on Mac, Thrive complete, Granata Pet and once a week I bake in the foil chicken breast for her. The other, non-diabetic cat is on Bozita, which is also a low carb food but a little higher in % carb than the above mentioned, 7%. Maybe you could try some of these for choice and variety. As for Lily's Kitchen, I decided to not buy their food when I heard there's carrageenan in there, it can cause gastrointestinal issues.

    I have a small question. Looking for tasty chicken or turkey canned food (because my cat eats too much cattle - lamb, veal, beef), low carb and no jelly. Any recommendations? Thank you
     
  52. SONICsteff

    SONICsteff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Hi, thanks so much for all your feedback. It’s so appreciated!

    He’s been on thrive and Lilly’s kitchen for two weeks and only started insulting yesterday. I would assume as the blood glucose curve was only conducted yesterday that his insulin levels - 1uniy twice a day - were calculated based off his current diet. Would you think this would be okay?

    We’re not home testing, but I’m thinking about starting. My only concern is I don’t want to upset or hurt him! Is it painless for them?

    Thanks.
     
  53. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes you should be ok with 1u on a lowish carb diet if a curve was only done yesterday, but we don't actually know what numbers the curve showed so it's not possible to be 100% certain. Can you ask the vet to email you a copy of the curve results? That would be very illuminating!
    Do start home testing - it won't hurt him and if you do so correctly and give him treats after the test for being a good boy, he will come to associate the test with a reward and see it as a positive thing. And it will give you peace of mind knowing that a pre-shot number is actually high enough to give insulin. These are early days for you and there's a lot to learn, but once you've got your head round the basics the whole thing becomes much more manageable. What insulin are you using? I'm guessing it's Caninsulin? There's a beginners guide here that you'll probably find very useful if you haven't seen it already:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/
     
  54. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Hoping to start home testing my cat this weekend and I noticed that some people recommend having a cream or gel to provide pain relief for their ear. Anyone got any UK recommendations?
     
  55. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi, well done for wanting to hometest!
    In the US Neosoprin is used by some folks, but there is no equivalent to that in the UK (I think it has antibiotic properties, and we can't buy 'over the counter' antibiotics here).
    I have heard of some UK folks using Emla cream, which is a topical anaesthetic, but its use (by people on feline diabetes forums) is not widespread. That may be because most cats don't find testing painful anyway. They may find it 'odd' at first, because it's a new thing. But there are very few nerve endings in the edge of the ear. It's not at all like us pricking one of our sensitive finger tips. My cat actually doesn't notice me pricking his ear if he's got a few crumbled treats in front of him to hoover up.

    Something that is used more by folks, especially if the cat has dark ears (making the blood harder to see), is a teensy weensy smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear, just enough to make the fur look a wee bit greasy. It stops the blood disappearing into the fur, and enables it to form into a nice little 'bead' that sits on top of the fur. This can make it less likely that we need to prick the ear more than once...or twice...
    I used Vaseline for probably the first month that I was testing Bertie, until I realised that we just didn't seem to need it any more. The ears actually bleed more easily over time! Strange but true....

    As soon as you've got enough blood on your test strip (and as soon as you have a free hand or two) it's a good idea to put a little pressure where you've pricked the ear, just for a few seconds. You can press a little bit of folded tissue or a bit of cotton wool on the ear, or just lightly pinch between finger and thumb. This stops any residual bleeding, and in theory reduces bruising. In reality, very few cats seem to have any problems from having their ears pricked.

    Eliz
     
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  56. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Thanks for the advice, I bought a small tub of Vaseline this afternoon. Just waiting for the home test kit to arrive in the next few days now.
     
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  57. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    I'm sure that everyone is probably already aware of this but just in case I thought I'd add that Wilko do their own version of the Hi Life freeze dried chicken breast or duck breast treats. Their packs are only £1 and you get more in them as well (17g as opposed to Hi Life's 10g).
     
  58. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    No, didn't know that. Will add that info to the first post. Thank you very much! :cat:
     
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  59. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    You're welcome! Just trying to do my bit to repay all the kindness and information that people on here have given me. :)
     
  60. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Is it these? Does your cat like them? I must give them a go, they seem a lot cheaper than Thrive!

    https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-natural-chicken-breast-cat-treat-17g/p/0471628
     
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  61. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    And that's exactly what this board is all about and how it is constantly being built upon to provide an absolute treasure trove of cat knowledge. Some people have been here for years, others weeks, but the collective experiences that everyone adds all the time makes this place pretty much unique, I reckon :)
     
  62. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
  63. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes do! You can also crumble one or two up and put on the top of food if a cat is having an "off" day for eating - most cats love these freeze-dried things.
     
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  64. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Great tip, thanks!
     
  65. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Just tried him with a couple to see if he'll eat them. He did but he found it a little difficult as poor thing doesn't have many teeth. I'll probably have to break them up like I've been doing with the chunks in the butcher's classic food.
     
  66. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    That's ok - some of the chunks are quite big and I think they'd need to be broken up for most cats.
     
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  67. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    I've had these for my cats and they all seem to go down a treat with them all
     
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