Was doing ok now kinda stuck

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Stacy n kendra, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Had one shot in yellow was so happy now back to red no changesin anything. So frustrating she is drinking tons of water what can go wrongshe is one 4does 2x day per her vet doing a curve on Sunday ugh
     
  2. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    It's interesting that the numbers before AND after the insulin are generally the same. I'm really new to all of this too, so I have no idea. Hope they give you some answers!
     
  3. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    previous posts
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/i-got-a-yellow-today.190463/#post-2123339http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/i-got-a-yellow-today.190463/#post-2123339
    and
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cant-get-out-of-red-n-pink.190304/#post-2121758http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cant-get-out-of-red-n-pink.190304/#post-2121758

    Hello.
    We don't want you to disappear but,
    I think your process of treatment can use some fine tuning.

    the first thing from the previous posts I notice is that the Royal Canin food is higher carb than you want to feed a diabetic.
    Those changes aren't instant so let's find some other foods for her. The instinct is a great one.... but with food and her delicate issues, transitions need to be slow. That can wait for now.

    Second, the dosing schedule you are on is very very likely too much insulin . We don't do these big whole unit increases.
    It can cause those high numbers to stay but only until suddenly you have a dangerous low.
    We want to keep Kendra safe.

    A 10 - 15 lb cat is a small creature. A whole unit of insulin can be a lot for a small animal. Try to remember that insulin was designed for humans, not cats. It just happens to work great for cats too.
    So you really should get some syringes so that you can make incremental dose changes.
    Your Pen also works just like a vial. You can draw insulin out of the rubber part and get those half and quarter measurements.

    You can get lots of help here, lots of good suggestions if you are willing.
    We have so much collective experience here and there is always someone we can tag for you when we don't know the right answer.

    But we need you to meet us part of the way ....

    so please, Let us help ....
    the suggestions made already are good ones....
    and over time we can get Kendra down in the proper range and maybe even in remission.....
     
  4. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    I have been adding natural instinct rabbit to her food so it's half n half been doing that since mon. My vet told me to raise the dose
     
  5. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    Vets will always tell you to raise the dose. They know very little about feline diabetes any more than a general practitioner knows much about gynecology. My vet telling me to raise the dose on my cat almost killed him. I’d trust the forum first.
     
  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Looking forward to see the results of the curve tomorrow. The more you gather data about how this dose is working, the better idea we'll have about what to do next with the dose.

    Did you make any progress in getting syringes with 1/2 unit markings? You can get Relion syringes at Walmart for a good price, or so I've heard. I'm in Canada. Those 1/2 unit marked syringes will make a big difference in dosing. Cats are very sensitive to even the smallest changes in dosing.

    How is she taking to the new Instinct Rabbit?
     
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  7. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    She loves the new food n so far so good. I personally have relion syringes for myself when I use to be on b12 shots they are 30 gauge 1ml capacity and 8mm length think that will work
     
  8. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    Didn’t realize you were in Canada too. Can we get Relion here?
     
  9. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    No, not in Canadian Walmarts. Stacy is in NJ. But I live close to the border.

    Stacy - are they the U-100 ones? I think this is the picture.
     
  10. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Looks pretty much same the color on box is slightly different they are u-100
     
  11. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    The 1ml capacity may be a problem.....it's hard enough to get half unit measurements (much less .25 unit) on the 3/10ml syringes. I can't imagine trying to do it on a 1ml syringe with so many more marks!
     
  12. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    Dec 9, 2017
    On the other hand this would already allow for half-doses and getting used to the syringes, until getting half-unit ones!
     
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  13. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Not really....a 1ml syringe holds a maximum of 100 units, where our 3/10 only hold a max of 30

    Most 1ml syringes only have marks every 2 units....and there are 50 of them in the same length syringe as our 30 unit ones.
     
    Juliet likes this.
  14. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    Dec 9, 2017
    My bad, confused with 0.5ml ones! Sorry.
     
  15. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Great i just ordered that same kind for double money ugh I know for future Wal-Mart was out of stock for some kind of recall thanks though
     
  16. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    So how do you think curve went in sure my vet will call and want more insulin just my guess what do you think ordered the needles
     
  17. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    Please get advice from others but if it were my cat I’d reduce right back to 0.5 and follow one of the two protocols on this forum. You got a blue number on just 2u and it looks like he’s getting too much insulin to me. 2u is way too high of a starting dose.
     
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  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    I would not lower the dose. Some kitties need more insulin than others. Going back to the beginning can be a HUGE step backwards. Often kitties will show a reaction to starting insulin that isn't sustained. Those blues may have been that reaction.

    Good job on the curve yesterday. It does look like more insulin may be needed. But I would get those insulin syringes first, so you can do a smaller increase than your vet will ask for. In the mean time, keep getting those tests in. Try to get a before bed test every night if you can. Many cats go lower at night so we want to try and see if that is happening.

    How is Kendra acting/behaving? Kitties are so much more than their numbers, which is all that the rest of us can see.
     
  19. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    I’d agree if he was far along on his diabetic journey but he’s recently diagnosed. I was advised to do the exact same thing when Silver was just diagnosed and started on 2u. I dropped right back and Silver was OTJ in a month. Hence my suggestion. It did work in his case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  20. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
     
  21. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Thanks for your advise my vet didn't call I'll try give her a call tomorrow. I'll try getting before bed checks in. As of her acting besides drinking a lot more she seems fine a few weeks ago she was on feeding tube for little over 2 weeks since then she is my old i mean young kitten again lol.playing eating more just a happy little girl
     
  22. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    testing is your friend .... that data is key to knowing how she is responding. Even if the vet wants an increase, please use your new syringes to increase in much smaller amounts. I hope the syringes get there quickly.
     
  23. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Well just talked to vet she wants me to go to 5 units from 4 syringes come to house tomorrow I'll start at .5 more tomorrow
     
  24. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    That’s a huge jump.
     
  25. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    Do you mean 5 units? I don't know if I would move up again, you are on cycle 6 of the 4.5 per your SS, you might want to keep to that dose for a few more cycles and see what that dose does.

    I am not an expert on doses hopefully @Wendy&Neko will pop back in and advise.
     
  26. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Yes 5 units in thinking the same
     
  27. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    Ok, I would stay with the 4.5u for tonight which I think you did.

    Tomorrow morning can you post before your shot time and put a ? mark with dose advice needed urgently. See if we can get some more experienced eyes on your situation. It looks like you are in a high dose situation and I don't want to steer you wrong on when to increase or how much.

    If you can get some mid cycle tests tonight, just so we can see more data.
     
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  28. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Ok will do that thanks so much
     
  29. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    I think she’s in a high dose situation because the vet started on too high a dose - 2u then increased a unit at a time.
     
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  30. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    No when she first got diagnosed she had her on 1u but increased it to 2u a week or so later didn't have a ss then
     
  31. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    Or it could be because of the higher carb food Kendra was on. There is a change of lower carb food in process just didn't want her to increase the dose as the food change is occurring without some more experienced members taking a look.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  32. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    I see u have a ibd kitty too n use cerenia have u ever used slippery elm bark . I just ordered it will be here sun for vomiting just wondering
     
  33. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    I did try it for awhile. I found it hard as you can't give any other meds or supplements for 2 hours after giving it. As well he did not want to eat his food with it mixed in. With working all day and him not wanting to easily digest it...meant me pilling him more. So I stopped. I do use it for myself though:D

    I do use the cerenia, 1/4 daily in the morning. I did try to back him down to every other day awhile back but that just ended up with him throwing up every other day.

    I see you are on budesonide was the use of the steroid cause of the FD?
     
  34. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    I'm not sure right now every other day instead of once a day. Then maybe cut the dose in half n do every day
     
  35. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    I agree with your vet. I think you can go to 5.0 units tomorrow morning. Good luck with the new dose.
     
  36. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    That is a pretty small pill at that point:D

    Could of done that, not sure if that would of worked for him or not. Something to consider for the future if we decide to try again. It just seems that if you upset the IBD side of things, it takes awhile to get things back to normal again. Don't want to upset him more then I need to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  37. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Just curious. Why are whole unit increases encouraged in such by a newly diagnosed cat? Doesn’t appear to be following either of the two recommended protocols on this forum. Has some additional diagnosis been made that isn’t clear in the ss?
     
  38. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    No my vet told me (only have The Pen)i have been using needles for the half measurements that I use to have to use when I got b12 shots i ordered needles they should be in today. I told my vet I'm getting needles so can go little at time n she said raise it to 5u.She doesnt even know since like mon -Tues i was giving additional half u. Did glucose curve on Sun didn't hear from vet till yesterday I knew she was gonna say raise to 5 so I wanted to start slow that's why I was giving the addition .5u instead of just jumping from 4-5u
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  39. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    @Juliet if you look at her spreadsheet, she has been giving 4.5 units the last few days, doing lots of testing, and seeing nothing under 300. A 0.5 unit increase is good at that point.

    Good to hear you are getting the syringes.
     
    Juliet likes this.
  40. Juliet

    Juliet Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2017
    Ok I get it. Just wasn’t sure why such a high starting dose and going up in one unit increments when she had seen blue on a lower dose. To me it looks like way too much insulin too soon. Same thing happened with Silver and I was told the same thing. I just wondered why this case was different when looks the same. Vets seem to automatically start off at 2u. Maybe that’s in the vet handbook.
     
  41. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Ok I'm in a bounce ugh now what this is all so different n new this can t be good vet wants a curve on Sunday any advice
     
  42. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    Does the vet want to do the curve or is he happy with you doing it?
    Most of us insist on doing that ourselves.....
    He is likely just looking to see if he want you to increase or decrease.
    Try to stay with what we've told you on increases.....
     
  43. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Wants me to do the curve
     
  44. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the curve. In addition to that curve, I would always get preshot numbers. I see a couple are missing on the 11th, 14th and 15th. Although Kendra's numbers are all high now, cats are notorious for surprising us. Too many times I've seen a cat throw in a preshot number that isn't safe to shoot.

    I think Kendra will need to go up to 5.5 units after the curve. You've gotten enough data for me to think you aren't missing any really low numbers.

    ETA: Good to hear Kendra is feeling playful. :)
     
  45. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Curve not looking good she gets her shot at 10pm I'll add .5 to it plus drinking so much a laying around most of day ugh need my babies levels to go down asap ugg
     
  46. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Good luck with the increase.:bighug:
     
  47. Stacy n kendra

    Stacy n kendra Member

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