Zeke - 8/12 - Stall with testing, AMPS 63, +0.5 90, +1 122, +2 187, +4 296, +10 329, PMPS 256 +2 309

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Meridith and Zeke, Aug 12, 2017.

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  1. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Yesterday's Condo

    Last night after I went to bed, Zeke had a very active cycle! Only had my daughter do the +4 and +6, but she has learned enough to know that she needed to keep testing with the way he was dropping. She has earned getting to sleep in a bit this morning. :)

    +4 233
    +6 180
    +8 138
    +10 122

    His AMPS is 69. Do I stall then test again or just feed and skip shot with it being that low? This is the first time on Lantus he has been this low
     
  2. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I got up early and honestly figured I would just be getting dosing help for an under 150 amps, wasn't expecting the drop he had from +10 to his amps.
     
  3. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Can you monitor today? Have plenty of supplies (strips, HC food etc.)?
     
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  4. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Yes I can monitor. I work from home.j

    Stalled and have done another test at 15 minutes after amps and it is 58, so still dropping.
     
  5. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    What protocol are you following?
     
  6. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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  7. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  8. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Stall eith no food. Retest in 30? Can you be off schedule?
     
  9. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    If need be, yes. I would rather go off schedule a little then try to shoot too low. I might have to separate a fat boy we have though before he starts getting destructive without his food though. (he is very demanding when he thinks it is meal time and he isn't getting it.)
     
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  10. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    I hope his next test is high enough that you feel comfortable shooting, or the one after that. Do you have plenty of test strips and HC or syrup for just in case? I have to leave in 15 minutes for a car appointment that I can not get out of, so I can't advise you to shoot and stay with you.
    Come on up now, Zeke.
     
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  11. Osha

    Osha Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug:

    We have a saying around here, shoot low to stay low, but with Zeke being so new to Lantus and never having a pre shot number close to this low, I don't know what I would do.

    So, I don't have any real advice, just offering hugs! :bighug::bighug:
     
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  12. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    I am rereading over the sticky for shooting low. So depending on his number when he starts going up, (I am assuming above 50 or so) I would want to feed and shoot?

    Yes, I have plenty of strips, a can of hc and walmart 10 minutes away if I need anything else :) My daughter can always watch if I do have to step away.

    Thank you @Osha.
     
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  13. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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  14. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    I would ask myself what number you feel comfortable shooting. Like would you be okay shooting when he gets to 100 or 85 or ? Do you have supplies and can be around to monitor all day? How off schedule is it possible to be? Depending upon the number you shot, you may want to start with some higher carb food, so sending someone to go get some more HC will probably be necessary. If you shoot, keep testing often and posting his numbers for guidance.
     
  15. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    +12.5
     
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  16. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    I have a can of HC I can give him right now if needed. I honestly don't know where I would feel comfortable shooting. Haven't had this before. I know it is better to shoot then skip a shot. Going by his SS do you have a suggestion of what could be a safe starting number for shooting?
     
  17. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    With having all these numbers that are basically ps's, how do I mark them on the style sheet? I did a comment and put the extra there, is that the best way?
     
  18. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Hi there:cool:
    Going to peek at ss
    brb
    Don't feed yet
    Keep testing for a rise
     
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  19. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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  20. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Oh thank goodness @Sandy and Black Kitty is here!
    Meridith I just started in LL land so I can't give dosing advise yet but I feel your pain. You're in good hands! I'll be keeping an eye out on you and Zeke:bighug:
     
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  21. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. This is our first experience this low with lantus, very nervous about shooting low but I know I have good help here.
     
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  22. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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  23. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    I'll be around for an hour or so and then back in about 3 hours.
     
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  24. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Can your schedule accommodate further stalling? Consider that to safely get back to schedule you can take back 15 min per cycle or 30 mins every 24 hours.
     
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  25. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Yes. So keep testing every 15 minutes? Almost time for a +13.
     
  26. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Careful what you wish for around here. :smuggrin:
     
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  27. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. I'll be watching for it
     
  28. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    No kidding! :smuggrin:
     
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  29. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    How exciting!
     
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  30. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    +13 58

    Looks like we are just staying around these numbers and not really wanting to budge.
     
  31. Doodles & Karen

    Doodles & Karen Well-Known Member

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    When's the last time he ate? He could stay around that number without food but hopefully the next test he'll come up a little more for you. Green preshots are a gift but only if you're ready too to take the plunge.
     
  32. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Since Zeke is not in a life threatening situation, please take down the 911

    Since we don't have much Lantus data on Zeke and your schedule can accommodate stalling, I would continue to stall (not that it is a guarantee he will go up)
    here is an example of how I documented stalls on the ss ( I did quite a bit of stalling)

    stall.jpg
     
  33. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    OMG! He is certainly giving you a dramatic change of pace! Now you have a new skill....stalling! I'll be following along to see what your furball does today! Can I have my patience pants back now!?!:woot:
     
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  34. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    It would have been at +10 (2 hours before his AMPS) at the latest.

    What does the NO R mean? And still stalling.

    Yes, I will gladly give them back! [​IMG]
     
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  35. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    13.25 is 62, we are still hanging at these numbers.

    Hopefully soon he will start rising. With being off schedule, means I will be able to get at least a +11 in the morning when normally I am not up at that time. Might even be able to do a +10 if he keeps going the way he is.
     
  36. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    13.5 is 59. He just doesn't want to budge. Zeke is starting to get upset with me for all the poking I'm doing.
     
  37. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Black Kitty had a high dose condition call IAA. I was using Lantus, and a rapid acting insulin on top of the Lantus as needed , Humulin R or R for short.

    How is his appetite?
    Did you ever have to guide his numbers with food on novolin?

    If you were to shoot now, you likely have a couple hours until onset. He likely will bounce at some point - he did shoot up after that green on 8/5.
    What do you think?

     
  38. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    His appetite wasn't as good yesterday AM, but with his higher numbers that was normal for him. He ate much better last night at dinner and afterwards. My daughter had to put out some more food for them at one point during the night.

    There was only one time that we actually used food for the purpose of guiding his numbers and that was when he went neon green 7/18 pm.

    So you think feed, shoot and monitor close? Feed his normal friskies or higher carb?
     
  39. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Also, with him going low like this, still stick with his new dose of 2.25 u or go back to 2u for a bit?
     
  40. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Zeke didn't earn a reduction (50) per TR but you have to do what you are comfortable shooting. I would hold the dose.
     
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  41. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    +13.75 58

    Ok
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Meredith, I know how scary this is! I think Zeke was in a bounce when you upped the dose to 2.25u and that bounce has now suddenly cleared. Looks to me like 2.25u is a good dose for now. It's up to you but if you can monitor today, then shooting low helps to keep them low. As long as Zeke is eating well, then you can steer him if need be. It's up to you and you have to decide what you are comfortable with. You won't have to do this alone if you decide to go ahead! :)
     
  43. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Transitioning to Lantus from a non depot type of insulin can leave a kitty vulnerable for the development of ketones. With that recent ketostix reading of 'small' I think its important to get insulin and calories into him.

    If you are comfortable that he will eat if and when you need him to and provided someone makes a run for some more HC food (one can may not be enough)
    Also, do you have Karo or honey in the pantry?

    If you shoot, shoot the same dose - 50 is the reduction point with TR, unless you were to have a cycle that demanded constant feeding to keep above 50.

    What do you think?

    BTW I'll be around until 2pm eastern
     
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  44. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he does always bounce with a low number. So would I feed him his normal friskies pate, or would hc be better? And would I need to be testing every hour? To make sure he doesn't drop too low? Or start out every 30 minutes til I see that he is rising after his shot?
     
  45. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    I would feed as you normally do at shot time.
    If you end up shooting green, which is likely the case, I would check 30 mins later.
     
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  46. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Since I know I can monitor him and I also have the help of my daughter for that, I think we can shoot. I do have some honey also so if needed quick rise can use that on his gums. How would I need to do my testing after feeding and shooting since I will want to monitor more closely?
     
  47. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Ok, gonna go do a test and feed as I normally would and get his shot done. I will check back in after all is done.
     
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  48. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm betting Zeke will either surf after the shot or go up rather than down. Testing intervals later on are going to depend on what he does so you really just have to play it by ear.
     
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  49. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    So his AMPS is 63. Going to test at +.5 and see where we are and start monitoring as needed watching for the rise. He has ate pretty well.
     
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  50. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    I am planning on a +.5 and a +1 starting out then see from there where we need to go with it.
     
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  51. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Congrats! BOS award! I am running to the grocery store but should be home in about 1 1/2 hours.

    Surf safe Zeke.
     
  52. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    What does BOS mean? lol
     
  53. apple

    apple Member

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    Apr 15, 2017
    Balls of steel
    Usually given for shooting a low number for the first time
     
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  54. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    Rofl, nm! I found the slang post and figured it out hehe. Yeah, I can see BOS, this is nerve wracking lol.
     
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  55. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    +.5 is 90.

    Food has helped boost him up. Will test again at +1 just to see if he is gonna try to coast upwards or fly.
     
  56. Doodles & Karen

    Doodles & Karen Well-Known Member

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    Make it official BOS.png
     
  57. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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  58. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The first time is always hard but we knew you could do it! :joyful:
     
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  60. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Now that I have done it once, hopefully it won't be as bad the next time. Gotta get used to it since that is where we want to get him to stay.
     
  61. Beenie (GA)

    Beenie (GA) Well-Known Member

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  62. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    +1 is 122. Gonna run to the store while my daughter watches him and get a bit more hc food and restock strips and lancets. Got enough strips to last the day of normal testing but after this morning I don't like being this low on them.
     
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  63. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    There's all those greens you wanted from him on Novolin N :p. Spread them out some, Zeke!:cat:
     
  64. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Best to always be prepared for potential poke-a-thons.

    I'll be watching for the +2

     
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  65. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Good job this morning.
    I'll add my [​IMG] to the mix.

    Um, when we asked if you had supplies, I assumed you had plenty of strips. There could always be the chance that your Walmart is out of the strips you normally use. I always ordered (online) more whenever I got down to my last 200 strips. You might want to keep an emergency stash somewhere for just in case, at least an extra box of 50, and refresh the box every so often so they don't expire. I also kept some baby food and 3 or 4 cans of HC food of different flavors (along with some MC too), and taped feeding syringes to the side of the bottles of karo and honey. I also had a bulb syringe in that corner of the pantry for the extreme case.
     
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  66. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Mary Ann I thought I was OCD but apparently I am not alone! You are SOOOOO organized! I keep an extra vial of strips in my "Holy Crap" kit and swap it out every time I do a supply shop so they are always fresh strips along with the karo, bulb syringe, regular feeding syringe and some high carb kitty treats.
     
  67. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oops Dyana! Sorry, Don't know why I typed the wrong name! Trying to multi task and failing miserably apparently! :woot:
     
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  68. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    I read your mind.. ;)
     
  69. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Exciting times this morning. You had good help. Eventually you will crave low numbers at preshot cause it usually means a flatter cycle.
     
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  70. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I know right!

    We have a good 15 strips left, but after this, yeah I think I don't want to let that get that low again. Luckily this walmart always seem to keep them pretty stocked. It is only the lancets that seem to run out at times.
     
  71. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    His +2 is 187. Should I do a +3 or 4, or let him have a little pokey break til +6. I did buy him a new treat since he was getting so aggravated with all the extra testing.
     
  72. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    How about a 2 hour break and test again at +4?
     
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  73. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    He will be happy with that I think. He loves the salmon Purely Fancy Feast treats.
     
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  74. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  75. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    I so hope so, but I ain't about to say anything out loud near him about that lol.
     
  76. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  77. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    +4 296

    He tried to fly right over yellow this time around. Will go ahead and test at +6 then +10 I think.
     
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  78. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Boing! Enough of the bouncing Zeke! You might be able to get away with just one more test, if you want to save a strip today.
     
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  79. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    You thinking just a +10 or 11?
     
  80. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    It's up to you. Either one will give you a heads up on PMPS.
     
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  81. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    OK. Zeke will appreciate the poky break.
     
  82. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    +10 329

    Looks like he slowed down after his bounce upwards. Will see what his ps is in a bit. Gonna start going 15 early each time to get us back to normal schedule. Should be back to normal on wednesday.
     
  83. Marvin's Mom - Nat

    Marvin's Mom - Nat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2017
    Wow I felt like I was reading an action book, what a day Zeke is giving you:) Nice work shooting that low, I don't think I could have done it (reason I did SLGS), big chicken mom here......
     
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  84. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Yes it was a very eventful day. At least after this I won't be nervous about shooting 100-150 anymore lol.
     
  85. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Starting this cycle out with yellow so will be interesting to see how we go through the night. My daughter has had plenty of sleep and I will be up til at least his +2 at midnight. I can definitely see how it will be better if I get these guys on an earlier schedule so if I need to stall again. Won't put feeding schedules so late.

    PMPS 256
     
  86. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    +2 309 so heading back up. Gonna have my daughter do a +5 since it looks like he is still bouncing and then let him take a break from poking until we start again in the morning.
     
  87. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    And what a lovely PMPS !
    It certainly has been an interesting day in this condo today! :cool:

    You gathered some very valuable data today and some insight into what can happen to your kitty during a stall in the AM cycle.

    It looks like you might also be getting an example of the current time it takes for Zeke to cleat a bounce ;)

    Hopefully in the future you won't feel the need to do much stalling .
     
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  88. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Well-Known Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I won't be so nervous about it the next time after actually seeing how he does with it. Thank you for all your help and for everyone else too that helped.
     
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