Zeke - Regulation and Diet

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Meridith and Zeke, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Ok, with what happened yesterday (ketones at 15, tested this morning and still between negative and trace so adding extra fluids to food etc today) I know we really need to get this guy regulated. I also know that getting him to eat without grazing is going to most likely help.

    Will this work?
    I already know that he will usually eat at least 1/2 can during a feeding then graze on the rest. What if I break the meals down to instead of 2 meals, 4 meals. So feeding approximately every 6 hours. After he is better about eating everything at each meal, then change to 3 meals. No more leaving it out for them to graze on. My gremlin is going to be mad because he rarely even takes a bite during meal time, he is strictly a grazer.

    I figure if I can get food better under control, then maybe we can finally get Mr Fuzzy Butt regulated.
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How is Zeke this AM? Keep up the anti-ketone stuff for several days going forward.

    Re feeding: there's no need to restrict meals to only twice a day in a kitty that likes to graze. So long as you remove his food for 2 hours prior to every pre shot BG test, make sure he eats a small meal 30 minutes before his AM and PM shots (because Novolin can hit fast), he can graze the rest of his low carb wet food through the day. Your signature says he's underweight so don't limit his intake.

    Re regulation: aside from feeding as described above, you need a structured dosing routine in place. You're testing plenty right now so you've got that covered. You've only had one green early on, there was concern about a 3 u dose recommended by your vet (justifiable!) and, since then, a few NSs and dose reductions that I'm not sure I understand. How about this:
    • finish up today at 0.75 u. Aim for one mid cycle and one before bed test.
    • go up to 1 u tomorrow AM - maybe two mid cycle tests between +3 and +8 and one before bed?
    • keep 1 u for 3 cycles and increase to 1.25 u if there's no positive effect on BG
    • rinse and repeat with 1.5 u, 1.75 u, 2.0 u, and so on.
    • keep posting here for advice.
    You can do this and Zeke will get better regulated but it'll take a bit more effort on your part. :)
     
  3. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    He is still between negative and trace so adding extra fluids etc to keep with yesterday's routine.

    That normally would be fine, but with him still not gaining weight (even loosing between last 2 weighings), I'm concerned he isn't getting enough. I do have another that we have nicknamed fat boy and he loves to pig. He has actually been gaining weight. So it isn't a restriction, it is so can better monitor how much he is getting without the other eating it all. Can't watch the food bowls every second and fat boy is fast!

    I have another thread on here where @MrWorfMen's Mom and @Yong have been helping me. The NS's have been from either because he was below 200 or once because we had to go out of town and left too early to do his shot, since it was going to be more then 2 hours early.

    Wouldn't that frequent dose changing cause a bounce?
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    OK. I haven't seen all the dosing details that @Yong and @MrWorfMen's Mom have been helping you with. Re feeding: if you can isolate Zeke to give him more small meals a day that could help. Maybe fit them in when your schedule permits.

    The idea behind changing the dose that frequently is to move him out of high numbers sooner than later to avoid him getting "stuck" up there. Once you see a more positive effect from a dose (blue numbers at first, dark greens later) then you can hold it longer. Yes, bouncing can happen but, from what I see on your SS, he's not a violent bouncer.

    @Yong @MrWorfMen's Mom What do you think?
     
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  5. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    That's kinda how we are doing now. He doesn't like not knowing what everyone else has in their bowls though and will sit in the room and cry til we open the door. He is a stubborn one!
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I have three and have to isolate them for meals because they eat different food.
     
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  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm with both of you with the food issues. Having more than one kitty does indeed complicate things when you have a nosy cat who has to see if there's a better option in another dish or one who likes to pilfer from any bowl available. I feel like a lunchroom monitor most days and find myself feeding cats in odd places and times just so I can monitor. It's a PIA to be sure and I wish I had a easy answer because I have a couple of door scratchers and screamers if I try to isolate in different rooms with doors closed. The problem is worse when you have cats that don't eat their full portion in one go. What I have started to do, is give the grazers the amount I'm pretty certain they will eat in one sitting. This eliminates me turning my back to find Menace pilfering their bowls at main meal times. I then wait till Menace is napping and the boys "tell" me they want more and I return their bowls to them in an area away from where Menace is napping. I've found that over time, the boys are getting better about eating more of their food at main meal/snack times because they've had to go hungry for an hour or two on occasion from this new process.

    Recently I found some food the boys love but Menace won't touch. This has made things a bit easier but may not last because Menace may decide she will eat their food one day and I'll be back to square one.

    @Kris & Teasel I agree we don't want kitty to get stuck in high numbers but I find they often don't settle into a dose within 3 cycles and usually suggest holding for 6 cycles so any potential bouncing has cleared. Problem is sometimes bounces can be set off even on lowered doses. Zeke is a head scratcher because he seems to rise rather than drop early in the cycle a lot but then he's also had blue numbers following missed shots and interestingly, his pre-shots following missed shots have been pretty darn good and often lower than they are when his shots have been regular. I'm honestly not sure what he's up to. Bit of challenge like a couple of other cats near and dear to our hearts! I wish Mogs was around to give us her opinion.:(

    For now, maybe try only holding doses for 3 cycles is the way to go and we'll see what that does for Zeke. ECID!
     
  8. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Feeding these 3 wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for fat boy lol. 2 grazers and a pig is not a good combo. And yes it is like being a lunch room monitor! Luckily I like math because I feel like I'm doing throughout meal time, Zeke can't stay at his bowl so I'm constantly trying to figure out how much total after his grazing out of everyone's bowl. I love the times he is hungry enough to not care he is in the room alone lol.

    I will just keep logging everything and post here when I'm unsure or notice changes and we can give @Kris & Teasel route a try. Eventually something will work or Zeke will finally catch on lol.
     
  9. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    On board with food ideas! I would say Zeke is a behaved bouncer :p It does seem like the Novolin is with him for the 12 hours and if it's too high a dose, a little longer. I get a weird feeling we might see good things on a fat 1.0U and I think Zeke will remain in average doses, less than 3.0U. Right now the increase, extra fluids, and extra calories should help flush those ketones out :)
     
  10. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    153, first blue we have had in a bit! I think I'm on the right track changing my grazer to normal feeders lol. The gremlin dug right in and Zeke isn't even complaining this time in the bedroom.
     
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  11. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah! :joyful::joyful::joyful: Way to go Zeke! Now keep up the good work!
     
  12. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I know tonight will be .75u, but should I give another day before we do the 1u since I have changed how I'm feeding?
     
  13. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's really up to you. Making too many changes at the same time can muddy the waters as to what's working and what's not. If he doesn't seem to be coming down tonight at the +2 or thereabouts tonight, I'd probably take him up tomorrow morning.
     
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  14. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Ok, so kinda play by ear on how he is doing tonight after his evening shot? If need to have my daughter stay up to get some more mid test during the night she can.
     
  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yep! Playing by ear is about all you can do right now because the steps to his dance are not quite clear yet and he's leading....all you can do is follow! ;) It never hurts to get more tests so if your daughter can get another test even later than +2 that will give you more useful information.
     
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  16. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    How long until PMPS? :)
     
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  17. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Just seen ur message, sorry. When u posted, was only 30 minutes before. He got an even 300. At +2 he got 256 then at +6 he got 163.

    Yesterday he did have 2 quarter sized very very foamy vomits. Then my daughter left me a note this morning that he had vomited 3 times during the night. I can tell where one was since she didn't clean it up very well and it is a decent sized spot.

    His morning ketone test put him pretty much at negative.
     
  18. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Great news on ketones! :woot:
    Not to be graphic, were the foamy vomits white/clear? Can happen if kitty is too hungry between meals. Is Zeke still on 2 feedings a day?

    Another nice blue! :cool:
     
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  19. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    The foamy stuff was probably more clear then anything, though the foam did kinda make it look whitish. He is now on 4 smaller meals and I don't pick up til I know he is done eating. He is actually getting more food now then he was before. Fat boy had been pigging it. Last weighing, fat boy gained while zeke lost.
     
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  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for another blue number and no ketones! Yuck on the vomiting! With him getting more food and multiple feeds per day, he should have enough food on his tummy to keep any excess acid down but maybe he's still adjusting to not grazing. I've seen both my boys vomit white foamy liquid only to find it was a precursor to a hairball. Keep an eye on him. I assume the weather is very hot, so could that be causing him to be off at all?
     
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  21. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    The vomit my daughter didn't clean up the best possibly could have been from a hairball, but the coloring seems more like food. (she has a week stomach so lucky she cleaned it up that well lol) Hopefully he is just adjusting to the change in feeding.

    I keep it 72 in the house cause I can't handle the heat at all, so that shouldn't be affecting him any.
     
  22. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    White is ok, we're more cautious if you say yellow ;).
     
  23. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Now that my daughter is up, it was 2 foamies and then the 1 spot that had possible food. The big one was before the food they got at 2:30 am with the foamies after food.

    I think it is safe to say he is starting to feel better though. He zipped through the house earlier and about ran me down in the process! He hasn't done that in awhile lol. Play yes, zip no lol.
     
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  24. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like it's leaning more towards acid reflux type. Hopefully the new feeding schedule will help that :). Maury made me happy the other day when he beat me to the top of the stairs. He used to always rush up ahead of me. Just casually going up, not trying to race him :cat: The little things we love seeing our babies do again :bighug:
     
  25. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Yeah it is great seeing him want to play. I think his appetite is increasing too. He ate good this morning and was letting us know he needed a snack (attacking our plates at lunch lol) so gave him some bites of tuna and he went crazy for it lol. So next meal he will be getting a bit more.
     
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  26. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    No pinks yesterday, but no blues either. Actually stayed pretty flat. So go the rest of this day before changing again or what?
     
  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It looks like the extra food and change of eating schedule is giving him a more normal looking cycle which is great. He's not bouncing now so I think I'd stick with 1u tonight and then bump him up to 1.25u tomorrow. I personally prefer to do dose increases on a day cycle so I'm awake enough to monitor closely if the need arises.;)
     
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  28. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    That is what I was thinking, but didn't know if we needed to go ahead and stay another day at this dose before changing. I hope to finally get this fuzzy butt figured out soon. Ready to see more blues!
     
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  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    He's looking good and I'm sure you will get there soon. Patience is the key and probably the hardest part of this sugar dance!
     
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  30. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I'm learning that well enough, and that is something I don't normally have lol.
     
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  31. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    We got another blue during the night, which is good, but getting concerned with the vomiting. Was 4 spots this morning, 2 small (2 inches by 1) and 2 large. All had an orange color with a consistency of gravy. This started with the feeding change. Could it be adjusting still? Since it is 4 scheduled feedings 6 hours apart right now. If I didn't have to worry about zeke not getting enough, I would go back to the other way of feeding.
     
  32. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    How many days has new feeding schedule been in play? Grats on another blue though :)
     
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  33. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    We started it Saturday. And the vomiting is has been mainly from the hours of probably 3:30 am til 8 am. None during the daytime.
     
  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sure sounds like acid tummy reflux.
     
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  35. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    How would I take care of that?
     
  36. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Another thing. I have been weighing him weekly, and really expected a gain this week because he is finally getting some meat along his spine so not feeling so bony anymore. He lost .6 pounds since last wednesday! He is loosing instead of gaining. I thought maybe the fatboy (he has been gaining, at 20 pounds now) was eating more then he should which is why I changed the feeding schedule, but now I don't know :(
     
  37. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah blue! :D

    I'm assuming that other than the night vomiting, he is not displaying any other signs of not feeling well? Are his bowels moving OK?

    Maybe keep to scheduled feeding during the day but leave some grub out for grazing overnight and see if that helps. Also, increase his portions a bit more. Diabetics can't utilize the food they intake efficiently so they need more than you'd expect. If you want him to gain weight, then up his calories. That may lead to him needing a bit more insulin but you can adjust as needed while trying to get Zeke to pack on some pounds.
     
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  38. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Yes, he is going fine.

    For the amount of food, the issue is making sure he is eating enough. I give him more then he will eat. I would much rather toss some from giving too much then not give enough. My gremlin has also lost weight this week, not thinking he is taking to well to the feeding schedule either.

    I'm thinking I might just need to go back to the schedule before, making sure they got plenty for grazing. Hubby is able to pick up early enough in the morning before I do amps.
     
  39. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Meridith, do whatever you feel/need to do to keep both the furballs happy. I know my girl would never make it through 6 hours without food so I personally, give her a larger portion at shot time and two other snacks each cycle. I try to keep the last snack about 3 to 4 hours before next shot time. A lot of this is a trial and error situation and you have to find what works best for all concerned.....cat and Mom/Dad/Siblings. The important thing is to figure out why Zeke is vomiting and if he seems fine in all other ways, the new food schedule seems to be the most obvious culprit. :)
     
  40. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I had put the little remaining from breakfast on the counter and one of them had finished it off. Added another can and Zeke was more then willing to eat some more. Will go back to how it was before and see if the vomiting stops.
     
  41. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Do let us know :)
     
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  42. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    We did have one vomit tonight, was after I took the food away before pmps. Will see how it is by morning since that is when he normally has been. His +2 was 201 so looks like another blue coming for his peak at 2:30.
     
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  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Any recent ketone tests?
     
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  44. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    His last couple of tests came back negative. He also didn't vomit early this morning like he has been, so feeding schedule change is what helped bring that along.

    On his shot, will see how he does and if not much change, then go to 1.5u in the morning. Is this time being different on how the insulin is affecting him because he isn't bouncing like he was before?
     
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  45. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think an increase is in order.

    Not sure I understand your question.
     
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  46. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    When I first started on the forum and was learning about home testing, his numbers seemed to be all over the place and the lower the dose, the lower the overall numbers were.
     
  47. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Meridith, finding the right dose for kitty can sometimes be like doing a 2 step.....two steps forward and one step back. When you started out on that higher dose, Zeke was bouncing and sometimes that becomes a vicious circle. Taking the dose down to get the bouncing to stop allows you to really see what the dose is doing for him. Now that he is getting much better numbers, you may find yourself taking the dose back up to what seemed too high before. Totally counter intuitive but that's the nature of the beast. Zeke is getting better familiarized with lower numbers and now you are getting a better picture of how each dose is working for him.
     
  48. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Ok, that makes sense. Basically because of how the vet was increasing him, it caused the bounce more or less. So we have basically just reset him on how he does with the insulin then so he reacts more like he should, it sounds like anyways lol.
     
  49. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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  50. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Eventually I will fully have it down, but then when Zeke is even confusing yall, might not be anytime soon. Lol
     
  51. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Yup yup!
    Don't let Zeke ever know you may be figuring him out. He will throw a wrench in the works :p
     
  52. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    3 pinks yesterday. I went to 1.5u this morning and will do a +4 and +8 with this new dose. Would love to see much less pinks. Seems like we are having one day with yellows and blues, then the next day higher numbers. Since he likes to pilfer, I make sure everything is always put away, sealed, covered etc. I don't even leave something soaking in the sink and make sure the drain plug is emptied so he can't find anything to nibble on. The only thing he gets besides his pate is bites of canned tuna or chicken. Is the food affecting his numbers that much since he is getting higher ones then a couple days ago?
     
  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes when you change doses the numbers go a bit wonky. New dose wonkiness is not unusual. Stay the course and don't fret over a pink number here and there. Each one is just one number. What we need to pay attention to is the pattern over time. I know it's frustrating and very puzzling but it's the nature of the beast. Let's see what he does on 1.5u and then re-evaluate. :)
     
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  54. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Okies. I do like that we are starting to see blues more often.
     
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  55. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, I'll pull Maury's SS up and sit back so I can't read numbers but look at the colours overall :). Helps see the bigger picture;)
     
  56. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I think we are doing good and slowly getting there still. We are on 2nd day of 1.75u and considering staying 1 more day before going up to 2u. Last night I think was a squirrel moment but went back to normal numbers today.
     
  57. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dang them squirrels! Totally ruined the colour scheme! :woot: Zeke is doing well. There's less pink but it would be nice to see a little more blue. Give the 1.75u another day and then adjust if need be. Sometimes it takes some ups and downs with dose to get to optimal. You're doing great!
     
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  58. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I think we have the feeding schedule down for what works with these guys. Both my gremlin and Zeke gained weight this week, 1.4 pound gain for Zeke! Was worried that the fat boy would gain weight this way but he actually lost some.

    Last night we actually had a NS due to how low his PS was, then of course we had fireworks going off til 2am all around us so he got extremely stressed from it. With the NS and then the stress, my daughter got an extra test in to make sure he wasn't going to high. There was so many fireworks happening in town that it was foggy/smokey everywhere!
     
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  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    So glad to hear Zeke is finally gaining some weight and that he's doing so well. Interesting how you can track his firework stress and then this morning back to a decent pre-shot. Go Zeke! Just for future reference, if you know there is a major stressor at work causing a high reading, I wouldn't second guess about then giving insulin anyway. As you can see the stress BG comes back down to "their normal" pretty quickly unlike a bounce that can last a few cycles.
     
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  60. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I had actually thought about giving him a small dose and my daughter reminded me probably better not to. She is catching on also it seems. :)
     
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  61. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    That's great! :)
     
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  62. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    I think we might actually be getting there. Have had a couple great preshots. Will hold this dose a few days and see where it is staying before any further adjustments.
     
  63. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    PS numbers are coming down :) (anti jinx). No more icky ketones showing up right? ;)
     
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  64. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Haven't did one lately since it's been a little nuts around here lately. He has been eating good and not showing any signs of not feeling quite himself and playing more so he should be good. Will get one soon though.
     
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  65. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    We just had a 59/57 peak test (tested a second time when came back that low). I know at 50 start doing stuff for hypo, but what about the # we just got? Already planning on testing at +8, and he also just ate a little more and is still being normal for him.
     
  66. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry Meridith, just seeing this. For situations like this, since he's near nadir, you can just give like 1T of a LC snack. How many units did he get this morning?
     
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  67. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    He was grazing on his food already. He got 2u this morning. He was at 62 at +8.
     
  68. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    Well, either we just bounced or we found another squirrel. Lol Will know better at his preshot. 299 at his +10.
     
  69. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Most likely a bounce ;). He hasn't seen a green since 25 May :D. Since he did go green today, you might want to slightly reduce dose to 1.75U, depending on his PS. Sometimes the lower green numbers can make them more insulin sensitive :)
     
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  70. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Reduce just for this next dose, or for a couple days?
     
  71. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Definitely for next dose. Then if he goes back to the 230's PS tomorrow morning, you can try 2.0U again if you'll be able to monitor :)
     
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  72. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
  73. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    WHOO HOO! Look at Zeke! Next time you get a number like that, as well as feeding Zeke a bit of LC food as Yong pointed out, I'd retest again in 30 minutes just to be sure he's come up a bit from the food so if he is still dropping or not rising a bit, you can give a bit more food. Wash repeat until the BG is holding. With Novolin, I'd give him a bit of food at any reading about 80 or lower because it can drop BG swiftly and you want to try to avoid those really close to 50 numbers as much as possible. It was great thinking to retest when you got that low number, something I'm usually too rattled to remember to do when my girl surprises me! (I'm blushing with embarrassment at that confession!:oops:)

    I'd watch him closely the next day or so and if you can, check his BG around +3 or +4 if you go back to 2u, just in case he really is adamant about wanting a dose reduction. ;)
     
  74. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    We are doing a +3 tonight before bed. Probably will make sure his bounce is finished before taking him back to 2u. Tomorrow will be another hectic day but will be able to monitor him easily.
     
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  75. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Ok, his numbers are all over the place. Should I raise his dose tomorrow? Yesterday and the day before, other then his morning preshot, the numbers were almost identical all through the day.
     
  76. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
  77. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    I think Zeke is a bit of a bouncy fellow. He's getting a decent drop of close to 50% but he zooms back up pretty quickly. You can boost him up to 2.25u and hold that for a few cycles and we'll see what he does. I'm getting the impression that he is metabolizing the insulin quickly and that might be part of why he's bouncing so much.
     
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  78. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Ok. With the way his numbers were, wasn't sure on the increase, will go ahead with that this morning. Had already planned on doing a +4,+5, and +6 with the way his numbers were going yesterday. Thinking his peak might be +5. If his insulin isn't lasting the full 12 hours, does that mean that we will need to change insulins?
     
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  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Switching insulin is something you may need to consider. That's just a guess on my part and I'd really like to see what Yong thinks about this too. For now let's see what Zeke does with a little more juice. Never know....that tiny bit extra might just be the ticket. Can you get a test at +3 to see what he's doing then? Looks to me like he might be peaking between +3 and +5.
     
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  80. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Yes I can do that. His numbers might be a little off today because we should be having delivery guys this morning, but then been waiting 3 weeks for them so who knows. If they do manage to finally show, will also test the same tomorrow so will have a stress free day for it.
     
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  81. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Ok, have done a test every hour for 4 hours and his numbers are pretty much the same. Going to do a +7 and see if we start seeing some change. Doesn't answer the question though of when his peak is.
     
  82. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    I agree with Linda and with the exception of 6 July, he does seem to nadir between +3 and +5 right now. Not incredibly off from the usual nadir for Novolin. At the same time, he doesn't bounce terribly high before the end of the cycle ;). As you get close to his working dose (since it can change again :smuggrin:) he should bounce less. Should be able to check in more the next few days like usual. :)
     
  83. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I do hope the bouncing slows down. Will be nice once we hit that working dose. Been at this for 3 months now. I'm thinking if we haven't been able to get him regulated within another month will get with the vet to see about a different insulin.
     
  84. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    My boy is technically not regulated, his BG is just under control and he is a little bouncy. I gave Prozinc almost 7 months before switching insulins. Just letting you know in case Zeke is a bouncy kitty too. :cat:

    Done any ketone tests lately?;)
     
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  85. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Ah, ok. I know lately his +10 seems to be extra high, then he will drop back down some, come time for his pre-shot. Overnight his numbers seem to be a little lower too. We did a ketone test a few days ago and was good still, no trace. :)
     
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  86. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    For some unknown reason, kitties tend to run lower at night :confused:
    Glad to he's negative on those ketones ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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  87. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Maybe the lack of human activity has something to do with that lol.
     
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  88. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Look at Zeke giving you another blue PS :cool:
     
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  89. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Looks like Zeke doesn't want 2.5u...at least not today! Go Zeke! :D
     
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  90. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Yep, gonna see how today goes to see for tonight. :)
     
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  91. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Well, back to bouncing again. :( +6 was 258, +8 438. Hopefully he will level out and this bounce will be short.
     
  92. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    I know only too well how disappointing those numbers look :( but it is just a bounce along with effect of the lower dose this morning so don't worry...this too shall pass!;) You'll know next time he has a pre-shot that low that you don't need to reduce quite so much. Chalk this up to experience. It's all useful data. :)
     
  93. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I have a couple of questions.

    1. Since it does seem that his insulin is only lasting him maybe 8-10 hours, would an 8 hour cycle be something that might need considered?
    2. I was reading on the type of insulin that he is on, a background insulin. It sounds like it isn't really required for a full meal for dosing, so would that make a 8 hour cycle easier since not having to worry about changing meals?

    With the reading up on this type of insulin and it looking like meals aren't as important at shot time, maybe if I put them back to full free feeding of their wet food that could also help in his numbers. Trying to figure out next move since it does seem to be that the last 4 hours of his cycles is when he gets the majority of his pinks and reds.
     
  94. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Dosing every 8 hours can be done but it greatly increases the burden on the care giver. You have to test more to track the effect of one dose before giving the next so you can factor in overlap, etc. If you find Novolin isn't lasting long enough your best bet is to go to ProZinc, Lantus or Levemir which are slower acting, gentler insulins with longer duration.
     
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  95. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    @Kris & Teasel

    Thanks for replying. What do you think on the feeding? Right now what I am doing is basically free feeding wet food throughout the day/night and have been picking up 2 hours before I do a small meal for them at 8am/8pm each day. Any more time then that without food and it seems to upset Zeke's belly. Could it help with numbers if I don't pick up the food at all since Novolin is a background one that doesn't require a meal.
     
  96. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Even though Novolin N is a basal insulin, it's still better for them to have a small meal on board :). I think your feeding schedule is fine, especially if it's helping Zeke's tummy. Still want to take up food 2 hours prior to PS test so that test is not food influenced ;).

    As Kris said, TID dosing is much harder on the pet parents :oops:. If you're thinking of switching, I'd consider the one's Kris suggested; Prozinc, Lantus, or Levemir.
     
  97. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    I agree with Kris and Yong. Meal times have to be planned according to insulin and more importantly, making sure Zeke's tummy is not upset so do what works for him. If he needs something that lasts longer then another insulin would be the best choice . :)
     
  98. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    We had a fun night. His +2 was 159, then +4 was 45! Got him going back up then this morning PS was 431! My daughter isn't here this week so I have been getting +3's and nothing later. Last night though we were late getting a load of laundry started so was having to be up later then normal to be able to finish so I decided to do the +2 and +4 just to see how he was doing. If I had went to bed earlier like normal, might have missed it. :nailbiting:
     
  99. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    That lime green tells me that the dose should be dropped a little to 2.5 u. You need more of a cushion at nadir with in insulin like Novolin.
     
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  100. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I was thinking on that too. Since his daytime numbers tend to be higher, would it work to just lower the evening dose but keep the morning dose the same?
     

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