Can i do this?

SO i recently had a post up ... Below is the link
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=80730&p=871022#p871022

Everyone helped me sooo much with great info... and told me i don't have to leave my cat at the vet for 4 days to start her on insulin. They gave me the courage to start her here at home...

When i called the vet today to ask for a prescription for insulin, he told me i will not be able to do this at home. I told the vet that i have a meter that i can check every hour or so her levels and also that i will start with a very small dose and go up to see which stabilizes her the best...

He then told me that its impossible for me to do and that the cat needs IV fluids and a catheter??
Just the thought of my cat with a catheter scares me to death....

Now im nervous and thinking twice about doing this at home... Can i do this? Can anyone give me a step by step guide on how to start this?
Or is the doctor right in the process he needs to take?
Does she really need to stay at the vet so he can do all this?

I could just imagine the stress that will cause her...

Oh your vet likes your money! He also has a 'God' complex - thinks his...humm....doesn't stink.

YES YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Is that big enough? I can't find a bigger font or I'd use it! For some reason, vets think we're all stOOpid out here when it comes to our cats having diabetes. Human diabetics aren't but cat 'beans' are? NOT!!! I also cannot see anything that says your cat needs to be on IV's and catheter - is there another problem they mentioned requiring this? If not, that's a bunch of hogwash!!! I'll repeat again...

YES YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

You've already got started by taking the first steps - meter is headed your way. Is a prescription required to buy insulin in your state? The only one we need here in Texas or Oklahoma is for the longer lasting ones like Lantus. My vet doesn't WANT to be heavily involved in KT's diabetes, he gladly (and happily) lets us work thru this ourselves because we KNOW what we're doing. He's there if I have a question or problem but other than that, we walk this road with our friends HERE.

BIG HUG!!!

I know it is hard to hear advice, over the internet, that conflicts with your vet. But you can do this, and it is much better done at home. If he wants to give her the first dose (insist on a low dose of .5 or one unit) and observe her for a few hours to make sure she is okay, that is reasonable. Keeping her any longer is unnecessary. You can test and monitor how she is doing and report to him. She will do much better at home eating her regular food and being with her mom in her own house. She is yours and you are her best advocate. You can just say, "This is the way I want to do it. I will monitor and keep you informed." If he won't let you decide how to treat your own cat, it may be time for a new vet.

If you want, give us your city and state and maybe a member lives nearby and has a vet suggestion for a second opinion.

Hundreds of us treat or treated our cats at home, just like we would treat our 2 legged children. The kitties are safe, happy and healthy.

my question is why does she need iv fluids and a catheter? was/is your cat in DKA?

I'm sure others will jump on this too but in my opinion this vet is fleecing you. There is no reason for a diabetic cat to be on IV fluids and a catheter. There is no reason why you can't give insulin, test blood sugar, and run a curve yourself (many of us do - as you can see from this forum). If you cat has other issues such as kidney disease then subq fluids are needed to help flush the kidneys but this (like insulin) can easily be done at home. I think you should find another vet - one who has diabetic cats in their practice and understand how to treat it. I myself us an internal medicine vet that specializes in diseases that affect the whole body - she isnt any more expensive then other vets and she is well versed in treating diabetes. Your first steps should be switching your cat to canned food only and start testing her blood sugar to see what her levels are when she isn't stressed. Then start calling to find a new vet. Jan

Yes you can do this. The only reason a cat would need to stay at the vet is if you have a severe hypo situation (which if not on insulin you can't have) or a DKA situation, which the vet hasn't stated is the issue. Because if it was, the cat would be in severe distress and possibly comatose.

Your vet is doing a great job of scaring you! Yes, that is what this vet is doing. Scaring you.

Honestly, I think you need to get a new vet and do so now. Call around to vets in your area and ask them about their approach to feline diabetes, home testing, etc. And you will find one that is willing to work with you and not scare you to death!

My guess is that unless you do what this vet says, he will not cooperate and will not write a scrip for insulin or anything else you will need. So, unless you want to pay a lot of money and allow this person to intimidate and scare you, you need a new vet now.

Yes, it's scary to have to find someone new, but you can do it. This is not the only vet in town.

And for the record, I went through something very similar with my now former vet.

Yes, you can do this! I've never heard of a catheter being needed either, unless there is some other health issue as well. It is not standard for diabetes! Let us know where you live, from your user name I'm guessing Los Angeles area? I'm further up the coast but have friends in LA who may be able to recommend a vet.

YES, you can do this!

The only reason for IV is if the cat has DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis), a massive reaction to the insulin or overdose situation - having a reaction to insulin is pretty rare, and if you start with a low dose like 1 unit and check blood sugar levels, an overdose is unlikely. DKA is extremely painful, so if your kitty is acting normal -- it is probably not present. And a catheter?? Your vet is just scaring you -- not needed

People and cats with low blood sugar generally feel the need to eat -- so it is important to leave food out if you are not going to be home.

I leave canned food out 24 hours per day for my 4 cats -- none of whom are piggy -- they nibble when they want to at any time.

If you monitor your kitty and post here, we can advise if we think you need to take him/her to the vet.

She is in New Jersey area from previous post --- we probably have a member nearby who can show you how to test your kitty in person.

Thank you all so much for the encouragmnt! You are making me strong and giggle all at the same time!

it is probably not present. And a catheter?? Your vet is just scaring you -- not needed

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my question is why does she need iv fluids and a catheter? was/is your cat in DKA?

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I've never heard of a catheter being needed either, unless there is some other health issue as well. It is not standard for diabetes! Let us know where you live, from your user name I'm guessing Los Angeles area? I'm further up the coast but have friends in LA who may be able to recommend a vet.

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I called the doctor again to find out why a catheter is needed if all she is is diabetic ... He says he needs to maintain electrolytes ... he also gave me a bit of an attitude and said "this is a standard why and all vets do this".
I am going to have to look for a new vet because i know he wont want to give me a prescription... I need to do this fast because her last reading at almost at 400 and i know this is very bad.. Hopefully hes not lying about that because i never got to see the meter ...
Shes a good girl... She sleeps alot (like all older cats) but plays and loves to be cuddled.. She gets her crazy moments were she runs around and looks and then runs again lol.. so i know she is still active...
Her level was never this high but we recently got a puppy who is 7 weeks... (no worries, i show even more attention to my cat now so she doesnt get mad) but i know this is a reason for jump in her reading... shes getting used to the puppy little by little so hopefully it will go down by the time i get the meter and i do it at home....

I leave canned food out 24 hours per day for my 4 cats -- none of whom are piggy -- they nibble when they want to at any time.

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Yes i started giving her only the wet food and took the hard food away.. Now she will get feed three times a day and she nibbles on it ...


Do you think a new vet will help with insulin? and when i start what do you suggest first? .5 for the day? and check her blood every hour?
if that doesnt do anything do i wait the next day to up the dose to 1?

I hear alot about curving, how do you do this? and what does it mean? (im a big newbie at this)

I called the doctor again to find out why a catheter is needed if all she is is diabetic ... He says he needs to maintain electrolytes ... he also gave me a bit of an attitude and said "this is a standard why and all vets do this".

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No, this is not standard and not all vets do this. If she is eating and drinking normally, then there shouldn't be an electrolyte problem.

I am going to have to look for a new vet because i know he wont want to give me a prescription... I need to do this fast because her last reading at almost at 400 and i know this is very bad.. Hopefully hes not lying about that because i never got to see the meter ...

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It's a good assumption, this vet won't give you anything, least of all a scrip. Because you aren't following his rules! My former vet was the same, if I didn't leave Maui with her for a week, then she refused to treat her or do anything for her, let alone write a scrip. She didn't want the liability of doing so.

I wouldn't worry about the reading at the vet's office. Why, because vet stress, car ride, being at the vet, etc. can contribute to an artificially inflated number that can be inflated 100-200 points.

Not to mention, that the BG fluctuates constantly and once you start feeding the low carb wet food, you should see a huge drop in the numbers. Possibly even enough that insulin may not even be needed. Or if it is, only for a short period of time.


Be sure to add water to the canned food. Why -

1) it will keep the food moist longer, so when you leave it out, it will stay fresher longer

2) it will ensure that she gets plenty of water in her system. So much that you may notice she stops drinking from the water bowl altogether. If that happens, don't panic, it's normal. She's getting enough from her food that she doesn't need to drink any more. Still keep fresh water out, as she may want it from time to time.

Do you think a new vet will help with insulin? and when i start what do you suggest first? .5 for the day? and check her blood every hour?
if that doesnt do anything do i wait the next day to up the dose to 1?

I hear alot about curving, how do you do this? and what does it mean? (im a big newbie at this)

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Yes, of course a good vet will help you with insulin and home testing. A good vet will teach and demonstrate for you and even allow you to practice tenting, giving injections and home testing.

My new vet did this, she showed me how to inject and even let me practice until I was comfortable, using saline solution instead of actual insulin.

Starting at .5 is a good starting dose. Typically, you will hold to the same dose for 5-7 days, and with testing data only adjust if needed. And the adjustment typically is .25 unit at a time.

no matter which insulin you use, follow the start low and go slow approach - start at a low dose .5 or 1 unit and slowly adjust the dose .25 increments as the testing data warrants.

A curve, means that you are testing every 1-2 hours over a 12-24 hour period. This isn't something that you need to do in the beginning. If you get a few tests in during the 12 hour period - before injection, and then say 2 more during the 12 hour cycle, a curve isn't typically needed.

I never did a curve with Maui. I did test her throughout the cycle, if you look at the ss in the signature link you will see how I tested.

Let's start easy, test before injecting and then if you can 2 hours or 3 hours after injection (+2, +3) and between 6 and 8 hours after injection (+6,+8). That should be good to start.

Of course you can change up your test times as needed and to get variety to see how the insulin is working throughout the cycle.

Make sense?

Here's a link to your previous condo Sorry, from you user name I thought immediately of an area of LA. :?

Curves are simply taking the BG readings every 2 hours in a day to see when the peak effect (lowest BG in the cycle or nadir) of the insulin is and when it wears off. Depending on the insulin you use these numbers determine dose adjustmants. Nothing is hard and fast though and nadir can change.

If she was 400 and stressed at the vet her BG could easily actually be 100 points lower normally. Tests taken after eating are also usually higher since there are a lot more carbs in her system. Just one more thing to keep in mind when you are looking at a number. BG numbers aren't absolute and vary throughout the day. They give us a snapshot, but not the whole story on what BG levels are. WE like to look at trends in numbers. I know it is hard when starting out, but the more data you have on how her BG fluctuates to more you will be able to understand how well her treatment is working.

When asking how much to feed it really depends on the food and the cat. Most cats need between 20 and 30 calories per pound of ideal weight per day, depending on activity level. so a 10 pound older, sedentary cat would need around 200 calories, but an active probably younger cat would need 300. The charts you have been given the links to also show how many calories are in a can, some foods are much more calorie dense as others so you would fedd less of them. Use the calories per can of your food, cat's weight and activity level to determine how many cans to feed per day.

Starting at .5 is a good starting dose. Typically, you will hold to the same dose for 5-7 days, and with testing data only adjust if needed. And the adjustment typically is .25 unit at a time.

no matter which insulin you use, follow the start low and go slow approach - start at a low dose .5 or 1 unit and slowly adjust the dose .25 increments as the testing data warrants.

A curve, means that you are testing every 1-2 hours over a 12-24 hour period. This isn't something that you need to do in the beginning. If you get a few tests in during the 12 hour period - before injection, and then say 2 more during the 12 hour cycle, a curve isn't typically needed.

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Curves are simply taking the BG readings every 2 hours in a day to see when the peak effect (lowest BG in the cycle or nadir) of the insulin is and when it wears off. Depending on the insulin you use these numbers determine dose adjustmants. Nothing is hard and fast though and nadir can change.

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How will i know if she needs to dose a day or two a day? when her level goes back up? Or should i stay with .5 for a day for 5-7 days and then just put it up .25 and leave it once a day?

cats need dosed every 12 hours. why? their metabolism is very fast so insulin only last for 12 hours. dogs can be dosed one time a day. but not cats. there are exceptions (when going OTJ [off the juice] but that is for later down the road

Hi,

Your sig line says "You all have made me strong! Thank you", but that's not actually the case. All that's happened is that we've helped you to realise how strong you already are.
:RAHCAT

Sending hugs from the UK,

Elizabeth

Here this link, will explain it: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

And you will get daily, even hourly guidance when you post on the board. whichever insulin you use, there is a board with people there who can give exact dosing guidance.

You are now armed with all the info you need to help you........just get rid of that awful vet and find another one and get the insulin. Sorry, but that vet handed you a semi full of crap :evil: Wish he lived near me cause I'd give it right back to him and then ask to see his license to practice.

cats need dosed every 12 hours. why? their metabolism is very fast so insulin only last for 12 hours. dogs can be dosed one time a day. but not cats. there are exceptions (when going OTJ [off the juice] but that is for later down the road

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Thank you i wasnt sure how often.... Now i know =)

All that's happened is that we've helped you to realise how strong you already are.
:RAHCAT

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Thank you Elizabeth and Bertie.. you guys are so awesome.. I ver lucky to have found this website.. Without all of you helping i would have been so lost and fell into the vets trap... :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

You are now armed with all the info you need to help you........just get rid of that awful vet and find another one and get the insulin. Sorry, but that vet handed you a semi full of crap :evil: Wish he lived near me cause I'd give it right back to him and then ask to see his license to practice.

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Yes i have two appt this week with two new doctors.. Lets see how they go... Hopefully they are good... Ugh i was so upset to imagine my baby with a catheter is insane! Plus his attitude didn't help much... I should have saw the signs since he never explains anything to me.... cat(2)_steam

I am going to have to look for a new vet because i know he wont want to give me a prescription...

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You really need a new vet because if this one truly believes that his method is how you treat a diabetic cat, he doesn't know how to treat a diabetic cat at all and you need to find one that is knowledgeable and current on treating diabetic cats. I am glad you have appointments to meet new ones because quite, frankly this one sounds a bit scary. A catheter???? for heavens sake! You might be getting your information from the dreaded internet, but we have vets and does he really expect someone to buy that we all have wrong vet's and only he is right in the fact none of us have had to do what he is saying you have to do?

Good luck! You are off to a great start getting diet adjusted and a meter to test at home. That 400 at the vet's office could be way high just from vet stress going near that guy. Getting numbers at home will give you a better picture of what you are dealing with and how to dose.