12/22. Elmo...183 AMPS.

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Beth 73

Beth 73

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Good morning....thinking about trying a full.25 this morning ....last night was quiet ...so nice
 
Yes I think you could try 0.25 as long as you are going to monitor him. He went down to 107 yesterday and you don't want to push him too much further down. That said, we don't know just how much that "minus small drop" is changing things up and it would be interesting to see.
 
Morning Linda...my thots exactly...with all the big drop/small drop stuff I'm sometimes not sure how accurate those doses are...thank you for knowledge and input :)
 
Good morning Missouri! (movie reference - anyone??) Good advice from Linda. You're becoming an ace at the monitor/steer thing Beth. :) I'll be in and out today but will check in when/if I can.
 
I'm going to be in and out today too but between us we'll keep tabs on you and Elmo. My morning will unfortunately be yet another snow cleanup but just a little one thank goodness! Sheesh! This has been absolutely ridiculous this year and shows no sign of letting up yet. More snow expected this week and weekend. :blackeye:
And of course I am now running out of salt and kitty litter and have to pick up more pet meter strips for my sugar so errands to be run after I do my new winter fitness routine! :woot:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Good morning Missouri! (movie reference - anyone??) Good advice from Linda. You're becoming an ace at the monitor/steer thing Beth. :) I'll be in and out today but will check in when/if I can.
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Thank u, Kris !!! And yes, I heard Robin Williams when I read ur post...am I right ???
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm going to be in and out today too but between us we'll keep tabs on you and Elmo. My morning will unfortunately be yet another snow cleanup but just a little one thank goodness! Sheesh! This has been absolutely ridiculous this year and shows no sign of letting up yet. More snow expected this week and weekend. :blackeye:
And of course I am now running out of salt and kitty litter and have to pick up more pet meter strips for my sugar so errands to be run after I do my new winter fitness routine! :woot:
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Thanks so much, Linda...Christmas day forecast here is uncharacteristic 60 and rain:(....wish so much could take some of your snow off ur hands :rolleyes:
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm going to be in and out today too but between us we'll keep tabs on you and Elmo. My morning will unfortunately be yet another snow cleanup but just a little one thank goodness! Sheesh! This has been absolutely ridiculous this year and shows no sign of letting up yet. More snow expected this week and weekend. :blackeye:
And of course I am now running out of salt and kitty litter and have to pick up more pet meter strips for my sugar so errands to be run after I do my new winter fitness routine! :woot:
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Hmmm ... kitty litter and FS test strips are on my list too. Seniors day at Shoppers - 20% off those strips!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Seniors day at Shoppers - 20% off those strips
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Thanks for the heads up on the strips. I rarely go to Shoppers but I probably should pick some FS strips too as I really think I am going to switch over to my FS meter as of the new year. I just can't stomach that massive price increase for the AT2 strips and with my volatile little one, I'm not sure I feel comfortable using FS strips in my AT2 if it sometimes reads higher rather than lower than an AT2 strip would. I've had my little one suddenly shoot me a 2.2 (40 US) on her AT2 and 1.9 (34 US) on FS meter IIRC so I'd rather the meter read low than high with her so I don't get lulled into any complacency of the seriousness of the situation. I'm gonna miss that AT meter though! The FS Lite doesn't beep as loudly to let me know the strip is filled and being smaller it's harder to see those little lines that show the strip is filling. Maybe I'll try to find a Freestyle Freedom Lite which is essentially the same as the AT2 as an Xmas present to myself and Menace!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Thanks for the heads up on the strips. I rarely go to Shoppers but I probably should pick some FS strips too as I really think I am going to switch over to my FS meter as of the new year. I just can't stomach that massive price increase for the AT2 strips and with my volatile little one, I'm not sure I feel comfortable using FS strips in my AT2 if it sometimes reads higher rather than lower than an AT2 strip would. I've had my little one suddenly shoot me a 2.2 (40 US) on her AT2 and 1.9 (34 US) on FS meter IIRC so I'd rather the meter read low than high with her so I don't get lulled into any complacency of the seriousness of the situation. I'm gonna miss that AT meter though! The FS Lite doesn't beep as loudly to let me know the strip is filled and being smaller it's harder to see those little lines that show the strip is filling. Maybe I'll try to find a Freestyle Freedom Lite which is essentially the same as the AT2 as an Xmas present to myself and Menace!
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The price of AT strips is too much for my budget too Linda. The FS strips in AT meter read consistently very slightly higher. If I'm ever in doubt I repeat a test with an AT strip. However, I understand your reluctance to deal with higher reading strips when Little Missy Menace decides to be tricky.
 
After dual testing with the AT2 and FS for over a year, I figure Menace is now worth far more than the most exotic cat on the planet! I know I should be certified nuts for doing it but it did give me a good sense of the difference and a comfort of using the human meter. I found it so frustrating that reduction points in the protocols here don't address the AT2 meter at all and I've seen far too many recommendations to use human meter reduction numbers that are not safe with the AT2 meter. That is what drove me to the dual testing in the first place. If I get another meter, I'll probably do a few dual tests just to make sure I understand how the 2 differ and of course I'll be keeping some AT2 strips around for any crisis situations. :)
 
Love reading you two discussing AT strips and meters. I just have to shut my eyes and order AT strips for now so will watch eagerly as you both forge ahead of me. One change at a time . Would love if you could post some real time readings of AT vs FS so I can see what you mean by "a little higher":).....
AMPS....182..shot .25
+1.5.......134
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I found it so frustrating that reduction points in the protocols here don't address the AT2 meter at all
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I've wondered about this myself. In my opinion the protocols should include provisions for the AT meter. Carol (@Carol & Murphy ) has said more than once that she misses using her AT meter and went to a human meter in order to post on the L/L forum.

This is one topic in all my musings about switching to an L insulin. I'm accustomed to my AT meter/FS strip combo and feel confident using it the way I do (AT strips when in doubt). I don't want to feel "forced" into using a human meter in order to be able to post there or ask for advice.
 
Beth 73 said:
Love reading you two discussing AT strips and meters. I just have to shut my eyes and order AT strips for now so will watch eagerly as you both forge ahead of me. One change at a time . Would love if you could post some real time readings of AT vs FS so I can see what you mean by "a little higher":).....
AMPS....182..shot .25
+1.5.......134
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If you go to Teasel's SS, Beth, I have a separate page of BG comparisons done very methodically. See for yourself. :)
 
Beth 73 said:
Bummer, I will have to switch on Lantus? Wonder why....
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If you mean switch to a human meter it's because that's the reference meter for which the Lantus protocols were written - ie., taking into account that human meters read lower. They've adapted all the rules about when to increase, decrease, hold, treat a hypo around the readings a human meter will give.
 
Grrrrrr.....I mean if that's the deal, that's the deal.....will covet you all's opinion on what meter would be best to switch to
 
Would save a boat load of money but cause a mental shift for sure...so human meters read lower...Elmo's 182 this morning would have been.........? On a human meter ???? Approximately?
 
Beth 73 said:
Would save a boat load of money but cause a mental shift for sure...so human meters read lower...Elmo's 182 this morning would have been.........? On a human meter ???? Approximately?
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It's not a linear relationship, mathematically speaking. The difference is greater at high numbers and less at lower numbers so you can't really convert. You use one system or the other and go from there. It's like using Celsius or Fahrenheit. You think in terms of one or the other and don't convert.
 
Kris, I have to disagree that pet to human meter is like Fahrenheit to Celsius. There is a formula to fairly accurately translate between those scales. Not so between the human/pet meter algorithms.

Carol and I were musing over the conundrum of pet vs. human meter reference numbers and while I think I have amassed enough data to be able to provide a ball park range for reductions using the pet meter, it is just a range. There are no exacts because of the scale difference and meter variance allowances. Trying to factor in that the US allows a 20% human meter variance but Canada allows only 15% and the pet meter has a 20% variance in both countries is impossible. To add to the mystery, there are so many human meters out there each with their own little idiosyncracies in accuracy and precision that unless someone were to re-run the Roomp and Rand research using pet meters to establish references in ranges other than low, there will never be any precise pet meter reference numbers and it becomes a "fly by wire" and "know thy own cat" proposition when trying to follow TR and SLGS albeit to a lesser degree. We were discussing recommended reduction numbers for pet meters a while back and everyone thought my number recommendations were too high only to find out, they weren't, at least in that particular case. So while I can offer suggestions based on my own research and experience, my numbers will never be accepted as "gospel".

My biggest question is why Roomp & Rand didn't do side by side research using both types of meters when their documentation outright recommends use of a pet meter. I assume it's because most folks use human meters but it still boggles my mind! And to boot, with the cost of pet strips going up, the chances of pet meters ever becoming the norm is pretty much NIL. I got a sample of another make of pet meter that has cheaper strips and used it to dual test against the AT2 meter and was not impressed at all. It's clumsy (Ok personal preference acknowledged), the strips start up the meter without being properly inserted, it takes a much bigger drop of blood than the AT2 such that strips got wasted, I've been unable to get any very low reading comparisons because Menace seems more reluctant to give up her blood when she is running low. The final decision maker on the cheaper meter was that it read a bit low in higher ranges and a bit high in lower ranges which is not what I want my meter to be doing. I was ever so hopeful that it might be a cheaper alternative but it's not in my view.
 
Mercy....that boggles the mind...what human meter would you recommend? Which is best use wise, not cost wise??
AMPS....182 .25 given
+1.5.......134. ( had eaten about 2t half hour prior)
+2.5........109
Maybe a little snackie now to keep above 100 ????
 
And my admiration and awe for you all mounts:). That you everyday counsel with people using different meters without skipping a beat. It's like you are bilingual.......seriously:cat:
 
Yes Beth I think a little snack to slow him a tidbit would be good. You know what you're doing!

As for meters, the Relion meters Micro or Confirm are very popular with the US membership here, have inexpensive strips and take a small drop of blood. Best of all worlds! :)

It's more like tri-lingual for those of us not in the US using pet meters ...... Pet/ human meter readings and US to International BG measures. I'm lucky though because Canada used to use the US scale of BG measure and I am actually more comfortable with your measures than my own because that's what I learned in nursing many moons ago!;)
 
Beth 73 said:
Would save a boat load of money but cause a mental shift for sure...so human meters read lower...Elmo's 182 this morning would have been.........? On a human meter ???? Approximately?
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I'll check for you later Beth. Gotta run out now and get my act together. I hate shopping this time of year with all the crowds so I procrastinate and end up paying for it!
 
The Grand Adventures of Sir Elmo:cat::
AMPS. 182. .25 given
+1.5.......134 ( thy med given)
+2.5......109. ( 1 t snackie given to keep above 100)
+3.5.......133 (1 t aloe given for guard against any possible stomach upset due to thy meds)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Maybe I'll try to find a Freestyle Freedom Lite which is essentially the same as the AT2 as an Xmas present to myself and Menace
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That's what I use, Linda, the Freestyle Freedom Lite. I didn't realize the AT2 strips were going up in price, and I am so disappointed to hear about the new pet meter - I had high hopes for that one. I continue to hate the human meter, and long for my AT2 every day. Just a note, you don't have to use a human meter on the L&L forum, but it really complicates things not to (as far as getting advice goes)
 
Carol & Murphy said:
That's what I use, Linda, the Freestyle Freedom Lite. I didn't realize the AT2 strips were going up in price, and I am so disappointed to hear about the new pet meter - I had high hopes for that one. I continue to hate the human meter, and long for my AT2 every day. Just a note, you don't have to use a human meter on the L&L forum, but it really complicates things not to (as far as getting advice goes)
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Hi Carol....so good to get more input !!! This switch is a biggie for my like-to-keep -things -the same /simple preferred lifestyle:rolleyes:
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Kris, I have to disagree that pet to human meter is like Fahrenheit to Celsius. There is a formula to fairly accurately translate between those scales. Not so between the human/pet meter algorithms.
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I completely agree with this. I meant it more as an example of thinking in one system or the other. Americans rarely think in Celsius when judging what coat to wear on a cool day and vice versa. Maybe it was a bad example ... i was thinking of the conversion formula even as I typed that post.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Kris, I have to disagree that pet to human meter is like Fahrenheit to Celsius. There is a formula to fairly accurately translate between those scales. Not so between the human/pet meter algorithms.

Carol and I were musing over the conundrum of pet vs. human meter reference numbers and while I think I have amassed enough data to be able to provide a ball park range for reductions using the pet meter, it is just a range. There are no exacts because of the scale difference and meter variance allowances. Trying to factor in that the US allows a 20% human meter variance but Canada allows only 15% and the pet meter has a 20% variance in both countries is impossible. To add to the mystery, there are so many human meters out there each with their own little idiosyncracies in accuracy and precision that unless someone were to re-run the Roomp and Rand research using pet meters to establish references in ranges other than low, there will never be any precise pet meter reference numbers and it becomes a "fly by wire" and "know thy own cat" proposition when trying to follow TR and SLGS albeit to a lesser degree. We were discussing recommended reduction numbers for pet meters a while back and everyone thought my number recommendations were too high only to find out, they weren't, at least in that particular case. So while I can offer suggestions based on my own research and experience, my numbers will never be accepted as "gospel".

My biggest question is why Roomp & Rand didn't do side by side research using both types of meters when their documentation outright recommends use of a pet meter. I assume it's because most folks use human meters but it still boggles my mind! And to boot, with the cost of pet strips going up, the chances of pet meters ever becoming the norm is pretty much NIL. I got a sample of another make of pet meter that has cheaper strips and used it to dual test against the AT2 meter and was not impressed at all. It's clumsy (Ok personal preference acknowledged), the strips start up the meter without being properly inserted, it takes a much bigger drop of blood than the AT2 such that strips got wasted, I've been unable to get any very low reading comparisons because Menace seems more reluctant to give up her blood when she is running low. The final decision maker on the cheaper meter was that it read a bit low in higher ranges and a bit high in lower ranges which is not what I want my meter to be doing. I was ever so hopeful that it might be a cheaper alternative but it's not in my view.
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I can see a person just going with the pet meter or other of their choice - once they're experienced - and approaching the whole thing empirically, logging results and analyzing for him/herself. It means you don't have a forum to back you up but we learn as we go with FD. I would never suggest this for a newbie. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I completely agree with this. I meant it more as an example of thinking in one system or the other. Americans rarely think in Celsius when judging what coat to wear on a cool day and vice versa. Maybe it was a bad example ... i was thinking of the conversion formula even as I typed that post.
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No, it made sense to me...Celsius makes no sense to me, even when understandably compared...I'm always like " Whattttt???
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It means you don't have a forum to back you up but we learn as we go with FD. I would never suggest this for a newbie.
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It doesn't really mean you don't have a forum to back you up because there are many of us using pet meters who can guide folks. It does however mean you can't blindly follow ALL the advice you get and must learn the techniques, principles and nuances of this dance from the forum and learn to read your own cat such that you know what the reduction points are using the pet meter for YOUR cat. Believe me, even using a human meter and the reference reduction points, don't work for all cats. They simply provide a guideline to work from. If I didn't have this forum, I would still be sitting here scratching my head raw with Menace on some really extraordinary dose of insulin I'm sure. :)
 
Elmo's final AM BG...+4.5...127....will be reading over all your good thots on meters and take some notes. Will continue to pick all your brains on this. No choice has to be made this day so I can ruminate on this new revelation of change in meter too. My ole noggin is getting a work out, for sure :rolleyes:
 
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