So, Is This What WE Should Expect from VETSULIN??

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ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

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I am sure there are experts her to explain how nuts I am...When I saw this "IDEAL" curve for cats on Vetsulin, I felt ill...Is this for real??? Is this what many of you experience. Please let me know so I can stop this 2 day trial of VETSULIN and return to Lantus or even NPH (that I dislike) is better..Please tell me how I am jumping to the wrong conclusions. Has anyone read studies examining the stability of Amorphous and Crystalline portions of Vetsulin. I will call Merck again Monday. They have been very nice but I did not know to discuss any of the above..Thanks for reading...
http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_Monitoring_About.aspx

2 days on Vetsulin..https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O1YNDHz-t4REns_tbAN6D_M3AYT6_kgqbHE7JWo6kSM/edit#gid=0
 
Hi Fran, I don’t know anything about Vetsulin, or diabetes in dogs, but I have heard that since vetsulin was made for dogs and not cats that it may work differently in each species. I think cats have a faster metabolism than dogs so it doesn’t last as long. Hope someone can answer your question, maybe @Larry and Kitties
 
The curve they show in that site is mathematically incorrect. And I'm sorry but who does the PR work for Merck? The person on the left holding the cat looks demented and what's with grandma in the mini skirt? No surprise they couldn't answer your questions, I got the same response when I found something floating in a vial.
 
Vetsulin is shorter acting than Lantus but longer acting than N. Vetsulin usually kicks in faster (hard steep drops) and lasts only a few hours before glucose is climbing again. It rarely lasts 8 hrs, your lucky if you get 10 hrs out of one dose. Some people have no problems with it and it works fine. Some dose every 8 hrs and have luck with it. I know it didn't work for Smokey. Not sure why you gave up on Lantus, out of the 3 insulin it would probably be the better one.
 
JanetNJ said:
Are you asking if a U shaped curve is typical of vetsulin? The answer is yes.
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Janet, Thanks for your response...Maybe I am not being very clear. If it is 350 in Am and 350 in Pm (top of "U")..that is the goal as long as it slowly creeps down to nadir and then up again. Might it be that" over time", you would expect that 350 to be 250 or below? OR is there the view that if it only stays at 350 (or whatever) for a short period of time everyday, there is no physiological damage long term? Elliott needed help and FDMB members helped me 24/7 minute by minute. Whether the animal is a dog or cat is not the central issue. For me, I (now) am worried about the stability of Vetsulin that no University DVM or local DVM mentioned to me. What is an issue is that most DOG people don't care as much as all CAT people do when it comes to helping others with sick pets.
 
Love-Paula aka Woodsywife said:
Vetsulin is shorter acting than Lantus but longer acting than N. Vetsulin usually kicks in faster (hard steep drops) and lasts only a few hours before glucose is climbing again. It rarely lasts 8 hrs, your lucky if you get 10 hrs out of one dose. Some people have no problems with it and it works fine. Some dose every 8 hrs and have luck with it. I know it didn't work for Smokey. Not sure why you gave up on Lantus, out of the 3 insulin it would probably be the better one.
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Paula, Thanks..I think you just answered my concerns!!! I left Lantus because 1-No one thinks it should be used on dogs and 2) SELFISHLY, I wanted to go to sleep before 4 am (last BG) until Frank took over at 6 am. I was constantly worried about "how low the BG would go"..Suzie did well on Lantus and DVM agreed (even though he claimed to have no experience with Lantus). 3) Dean of Vet Medicine states his drug of choice (dogs) was VETSULIN ..I made the decision and it was a mistake. Thanks again..Fran
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
My vet has seen that. People will do anything for their dog but cats, not so much. It's not a myth.
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Dog people may do "anything" for their "own" dog ....I meant on the forums..HERE, cat people will go out of their way to help cats belonging to others. On dog forums. the interaction is there but not like at FDMB. The DVM claims that clients will sell their house to pay for dog care, but not so for cat people..Really, from what I have learned here, cat people spend their "lives" caring for their precious cats and others' cats...Maybe because I have also have learned that much is lacking among DVM's knowledge of D.M. Either they don't care to continue more research or maybe big surgery is much more lucrative...I don't know.. And BTW, with Elliott, I never saw my DVM after getting expert help here. He only saw Elliott 4 months after the fact that YOU ALL put Elliott into remission..Thank you!!! Elliott is doing great!!!
 
ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer said:
Paula, Thanks..I think you just answered my concerns!!! I left Lantus because 1-No one thinks it should be used on dogs and 2) SELFISHLY, I wanted to go to sleep before 4 am (last BG) until Frank took over at 6 am. I was constantly worried about "how low the BG would go"..Suzie did well on Lantus and DVM agreed (even though he claimed to have no experience with Lantus). 3) Dean of Vet Medicine states his drug of choice (dogs) was VETSULIN ..I made the decision and it was a mistake. Thanks again..Fran
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I didn't know you were using it on a dog. I think it is the #1 choice for dogs but I really don't know.
 
ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer said:
Janet, Thanks for your response...Maybe I am not being very clear. If it is 350 in Am and 350 in Pm (top of "U")..that is the goal as long as it slowly creeps down to nadir and then up again. Might it be that" over time", you would expect that 350 to be 250 or below? OR is there the view that if it only stays at 350 (or whatever) for a short period of time everyday, there is no physiological damage long term? Elliott needed help and FDMB members helped me 24/7 minute by minute. Whether the animal is a dog or cat is not the central issue. For me, I (now) am worried about the stability of Vetsulin that no University DVM or local DVM mentioned to me. What is an issue is that most DOG people don't care as much as all CAT people do when it comes to helping others with sick pets.
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Yes the ultimate goal is that the preshots will eventually come down. My cat went into remission on vetsulin after 4 months and that lasted a year. Unfortunately she came out of remission in September and it has proven trickier this time around.
 
JanetNJ said:
Yes the ultimate goal is that the preshots will eventually come down. My cat went into remission on vetsulin after 4 months and that lasted a year. Unfortunately she came out of remission in September and it has proven trickier this time around.
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Oh dear..I check Elliott BG every month or so...hope that does happen to him..How did you know...BG check? Oh..and thanks for the Vetsulin info..I surely hope the preshot number comes down..To me ..this is not what I anticipated...Hmm..the more I think about Vetsulin, it makes me wonder WHY no similar insulin ever came out for humans back then;. We had to give people the Regular and then NPH... I am not real confident in what I have read so far..but I know nothing..sooo I will hope for the best for now!!! Thanks again!!!
 
JanetNJ said:
Yes the ultimate goal is that the preshots will eventually come down. My cat went into remission on vetsulin after 4 months and that lasted a year. Unfortunately she came out of remission in September and it has proven trickier this time around.
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I looked at your SS's..Maybe there's hope for Remission again..The BG values are saying something..what? I don't know... maybe sludge in the bile ducts??? Good Luck!!!
 
ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer said:
Oh dear..I check Elliott BG every month or so...hope that does happen to him..How did you know...BG check? Oh..and thanks for the Vetsulin info..I surely hope the preshot number comes down..To me ..this is not what I anticipated...Hmm..the more I think about Vetsulin, it makes me wonder WHY no similar insulin ever came out for humans back then;. We had to give people the Regular and then NPH... I am not real confident in what I have read so far..but I know nothing..sooo I will hope for the best for now!!! Thanks again!!!
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Yes I caught it with regular bg checks. I would test her about every two weeks when she was in remission. Definitly a bummer.
 
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