Newly Diagnosed BG's HI HI HI HI

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BG numbers for last night and this morning? SS not updated for the last couple of cycles.
Did you already increase to the 1.5U suggested in the previous thread?

Looks like 1U is not enough.
Either 1.25 U Prozinc or 1.5U Prozinc.
You risk bypassing a good dose for Tiger with the larger increase. But it's your choice for the dose increase.

On the other hand, Tiger is really high. If you are around to monitor Tiger, you may want to increase by the 0.5U amount.

Pre-shot tests are the last BG levels to come down when using Prozinc.
 
Deb & Wink said:
BG numbers for last night and this morning? SS not updated for the last couple of cycles.
Did you already increase to the 1.5U suggested in the previous thread?

Looks like 1U is not enough.
Either 1.25 U Prozinc or 1.5U Prozinc.
You risk bypassing a good dose for Tiger with the larger increase. But it's your choice for the dose increase.

On the other hand, Tiger is really high. If you are around to monitor Tiger, you may want to increase by the 0.5U amount.

Pre-shot tests are the last BG levels to come down when using Prozinc.
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The SS is accurate as of 4pm CST. Yes, 1.5u 2 cycles. I need to figure out where to add the time's. Basically a 2nd shift schedule...AM=Noon and Pm=Midnight
 

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Chris & China (GA) said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about him already being treated...but it's also possible the Amoxi isn't doing the job. Without a culture & sensitivity, there's no way to know for sure.

How old is your ProZinc?
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Ya know I started using a donated bottle it expires next month. HMMM maybe thats the problem. I started out using a bottle that expires in Oct. I think thats when the readings where pinkish
 
If the Prozinc insulin is old, it is less effective. If the insulin has not been stored properly or mixed thoroughly before each and every use, it will be less effective. If the insulin has been open a long time, it can be less effective with age. Sometimes, as little as 60 days. If the Prozinc insulin has not been protected from light, it degrades over time. Keep it in the original box or a dark opaque container.

You can try to keep Tiger at the 1.5U dose for 1 more cycle if you want.

You've gone from 1U to 1.5U and now maybe 1.75 U.
Choice is yours. You hold the insulin syringe. You know your cat better than we do or will ever know him. You are there to observe him. You know what your work/life responsibilities are and know when you will be home to monitor Tigger.

"Know thy cat." ECID. Every Cat is Different. Every Caregiver is Different. Every Cycle is Different.
 
Those "pink" BG ranges are not low. Yellow BG ranges are not low. Blues and dark greens are what you want to see more often. Numbers in the dark greens are lowish. Numbers in the bright green colors are too low and need to be brought up quickly. With food from your hypo kit.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I think I'd get a new vial ASAP. I think that one's toast
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The insulin I was using before was fine..Jazz Man is on it. I'll go back to that vial. If I do tonights shoot at 1.5u and check every couple hours..if he is STILL high like around the +6 could I give him .25 then? UGH!! Oh heck with it...he is sooooo high I'm gonna do 1.75u tonight. Yes I got a hypo kit..always.
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
if he is STILL high like around the +6 could I give him .25 then?
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NO. Please never do that extra dose of insulin in the same dosing cycle. Then the doses will overlap and make it impossible to understand what is going on. Not for a suspected fur shot either. You can never tell how much insulin actually got into your cat.
Once the insulin is inside your cat, you can't take it back out.

"Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment."

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Oh heck with it...he is sooooo high I'm gonna do 1.75u tonight.
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It's what I would have chosen for my cat.
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
He's got a long way to go..I think to go too low.
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He surely does.

Try to hold this higher 1.75U dose for 3 cycles. Unless Tiger has other ideas and drops <90 mg/dL. Doubt he is anywhere near doing that.
 
Deb & Wink said:
NO. Please never do that extra dose of insulin in the same dosing cycle. Then the doses will overlap and make it impossible to understand what is going on. Not for a suspected fur shot either. You can never tell how much insulin actually got into your cat.
Once the insulin is inside your cat, you can't take it back out.

"Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment."


It's what I would have chosen for my cat.

He surely does.

Try to hold this higher 1.75U dose for 3 cycles. Unless Tiger has other ideas and drops <90 mg/dL. Doubt he is anywhere near doing that.
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Ya I didn't think you could do a small dose. Just wanted to double check..been awhile since I had to start with a newbie sugar baby. Yeah definitely 1.75.
 
How is he acting?

I too vote for switching to a new bottle of insulin to remove that variable from the equation. I’ve had bottles of Prozinc lose their efficacy and feel like I was shooting water; other vials were good to the last drop. It’s an easy change to make. I’m glad you’ll be testing and ready with your hypo toolkit given that, if the insulin was bad, your prior BG tests aren’t particularly “telling” and it’s as if you’re actually starting out at a higher dose.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
If it's a Uti the Amoxi will clear it up.
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As has been mentioned, that’s not necesssrioy true. Clavamox is frequently used for UTIs and has an amoxicillin component, but I’m not sure amoxi alone is the first choice of most vets. A sterile sample of urine drawn by cystocentesis (needle directly to the bladder) followed by a culture/sensitivity is the only way to know for sure. Antibiotics can skew the results, however, so you’d need to wait at least a week after stopping antibiotics to get a sample. Just something to keep in mind.
 
JL and Chip said:
How is he acting?

I too vote for switching to a new bottle of insulin to remove that variable from the equation. I’ve had bottles of Prozinc lose their efficacy and feel like I was shooting water; other vials were good to the last drop. It’s an easy change to make. I’m glad you’ll be testing and ready with your hypo toolkit given that, if the insulin was bad, your prior BG tests aren’t particularly “telling” and it’s as if you’re actually starting out at a higher dose.


As has been mentioned, that’s not necesssrioy true. Clavamox is frequently used for UTIs and has an amoxicillin component, but I’m not sure amoxi alone is the first choice of most vets. A sterile sample of urine drawn by cystocentesis (needle directly to the bladder) followed by a culture/sensitivity is the only way to know for sure. Antibiotics can skew the results, however, so you’d need to wait at least a week after stopping antibiotics to get a sample. Just something to keep in mind.
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I'm very familiar with Uti's. He doesn't act like he has one..even before the diabetes. Amoxi usually does the trick. Clavamox is too strong..I usually only want that one if a cat had a cat fight wound or if I had one lol. I'm going to try to get a pee sample and take it into my Vet..she's fine with that. We've never had to do the needle in the bladder with any of my prior UTI kids, urine sample is all that was needed. Tiger is a high stress cat when driving. He cries, meows and then pants..he definitely doesn't need that right now.
 
Gerber meat only baby foods are a good food for when a cat won't eat.
Not nutritionally complete, but ok temporarily.
Gets expensive to feed all the time.
 
Hi Jacque, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Jacque, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
Click to expand...
Are the updates good or bad?
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Are the updates good or bad?
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Good ones of course.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Someone take a look see at Tiger's ss. Do you think he has been rebounding in the HI and black numbers?
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That's more than rebound.
1. Tiger was never diabetic in the first place. (You self diagnosed him.)
2. Old insulin bottle is not good.
3. You have to keep increasing the dose until you get past the insulin resistance/glucose toxicity.
4. Getting into high carb contraband food somehow.
5. Barely a response from any dose of insulin.
6. Prozinc may not be the right insulin for Tiger.

I sure hope you are ketone testing daily.

What does Jazz Mans SS look like?
 
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Deb & Wink said:
Good ones of course.


That's more than rebound.
1. Tiger was never diabetic in the first place.
2. Old insulin bottle is not good.
3. You have to keep increasing the dose until you get past the insulin resistance/glucose toxicity.
4. Getting into high carb contraband food somehow.
5. Barely a response from any dose of insulin.
6. Prozinc may not be the right insulin for Tiger.

I sure hope you are ketone testing daily.

What does Jazz Mans SS look like?
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I tossed the one insulin that expires next month. I used it for a 3 or 4 cycles. His ketones are fine. He is eating good, pee has no funky odor.
Jazz Man's regulated the low 300s, if I increase his dose he dives. I did a 12hr check a few days ago, he is right as rain acting normal..so I don't think this bottle is bad too.
 
Used to dealing with Prozinc kitties that are not simply "regulated" in the low 300's. But with people trying to get their cats under renal threshold and better.

Yes, a cat will dive at mid-cycle. But you want to see those lower yellows and then the blues and greens on the SS.
The pre-shot tests are the last ones to come down on Prozinc.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Jazz Man's regulated the low 300s, if I increase his dose he dives.
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Dives how low? to under 50?
 
Here is a definition of regulated. What is Regulation?

What is Regulation?
There are different definitions of regulation. As hometesting becomes more common, we've been getting a better understanding of what cats and their humans might be capable of. Janet & Fitzgerald propose the following "regulation continuum":
  • Not treated - blood glucose typically above 300 mg/dl (16.7 mmol/L), poor clinical signs
  • Treated, but not regulated - often above 300 (16.7) and rarely near 100 (5.6), poor clinical signs
  • Regulated - generally below 300 (16.7) with glucose nadir near 100 (5.6), good clinical signs, no hypoglycemia
  • Well regulated - generally below 200-250 (11.1-13.9) and often near 100 (5.6), no hypoglycemia
  • Tightly regulated - generally below 150 (8.3) and usually in the 60-120 (3.3-6.7) range, no hypoglycemia, still receiving insulin
  • Normalized - 60-120 (3.3-6.7) except perhaps directly after meals -- usually not receiving insulin
There may also be an extra category of "mostly above 300 (16.7) but with good clinical signs" which occurs with some cats who are getting insulin. We don't know why it happens, but such a cat probably should not be considered to be regulated. On the other end of the spectrum, it is possible for a cat who is not getting insulin to have blood glucose as low as 40 mg/dl (2.2 mmol/L) on a glucometer calibrated for humans. If you have a non-diabetic cat, try testing her with the same meter to get a safe comparison figure.

We would consider Jazz Man treated but not regulated.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Used to dealing with Prozinc kitties that are not simply "regulated" in the low 300's. But with people trying to get their cats under renal threshold and better.

Yes, a cat will dive at mid-cycle. But you want to see those lower yellows and then the blues and greens on the SS.
The pre-shot tests are the last ones to come down on Prozinc.


Dives how low? to under 50?
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yep..had to use Karo on him once and thats why I haven't altered the 2u
 
Deb & Wink said:
Here is a definition of regulated. What is Regulation?

What is Regulation?
There are different definitions of regulation. As hometesting becomes more common, we've been getting a better understanding of what cats and their humans might be capable of. Janet & Fitzgerald propose the following "regulation continuum":
  • Not treated - blood glucose typically above 300 mg/dl (16.7 mmol/L), poor clinical signs
  • Treated, but not regulated - often above 300 (16.7) and rarely near 100 (5.6), poor clinical signs
  • Regulated - generally below 300 (16.7) with glucose nadir near 100 (5.6), good clinical signs, no hypoglycemia
  • Well regulated - generally below 200-250 (11.1-13.9) and often near 100 (5.6), no hypoglycemia
  • Tightly regulated - generally below 150 (8.3) and usually in the 60-120 (3.3-6.7) range, no hypoglycemia, still receiving insulin
  • Normalized - 60-120 (3.3-6.7) except perhaps directly after meals -- usually not receiving insulin
There may also be an extra category of "mostly above 300 (16.7) but with good clinical signs" which occurs with some cats who are getting insulin. We don't know why it happens, but such a cat probably should not be considered to be regulated. On the other end of the spectrum, it is possible for a cat who is not getting insulin to have blood glucose as low as 40 mg/dl (2.2 mmol/L) on a glucometer calibrated for humans. If you have a non-diabetic cat, try testing her with the same meter to get a safe comparison figure.

We would consider Jazz Man treated but not regulated.
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Ok I agree and yes I did check one of my other non diabetic kids..meter is ok.
 
Starting to think that he has been diabetic for quite some time..just wasn't showing any signs until around the 8th of this month. Pancreas is likely shot and maybe even his kidneys. Doc said he is drinking too much water to do an accurate blood test for the kidneys. She said for me to save the $300.
 
Jacque, the choice of how to treat your cats for the feline diabetes is always yours. Always.

But if all the members here never changed the dose because of 1 low number incident, then they never would have achieved regulation for their cats or diet controlled remission, or be adjusting the dose for their cats.

Look at a few of the people posting over on the Lantus forum. toomanycats for example.
2/25 Buzzy AMPS 161 = 1u
Look at Diane Engoron and her cat Wenchie, posting here in the Main health forum.
Help Needed - not 911 - Wenchie

Look at Patty & Teal's SS working towards lower numbers.
Look at Juls and Billy's SS went OTJ about a month ago. 1/31/2020
Look at Hailey & Oscar's SS went OTJ this week. 2/22/2020
Look at Breanna H's SS for Tigger. She's pretty new at this and a member of our facebook group.
Look at HelloKrystie SS for Sirius. Down to using drop dosing. Also a facebook group member.
 
Look in the supply closet. There may be someone that has Lantus for sale for a low cost.
There are less expensive ways to get insulin, by ordering Prozinc from Chewy for example. But you need a prescription from your vet.
There are less expensive ways to order lantus insulin from Canada. But there too you need a vet prescription first.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Jacque, the choice of how to treat your cats for the feline diabetes is always yours. Always.

But if all the members here never changed the dose because of 1 low number incident, then they never would have achieved regulation for their cats or diet controlled remission, or be adjusting the dose for their cats.

Look at a few of the people posting over on the Lantus forum. toomanycats for example.
2/25 Buzzy AMPS 161 = 1u
Look at Diane Engoron and her cat Wenchie, posting here in the Main health forum.
Help Needed - not 911 - Wenchie

Look at Patty & Teal's SS working towards lower numbers.
Look at Juls and Billy's SS went OTJ about a month ago. 1/31/2020
Look at Hailey & Oscar's SS went OTJ this week. 2/22/2020
Look at Breanna H's SS for Tigger. She's pretty new at this and a member of our facebook group.
Look at HelloKrystie SS for Sirius. Down to using drop dosing. Also a facebook group member.
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Right now I'm more concerned for Tiger. Jazz Man is good to go. Ever since I switched to Prozinc he hardly hock walks now. Lantus makes me nervous. I talked with Chris about it yesterday.
 
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