1/17 Morris Angels-Need Help re Dental & Diarrhea

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Brenda and Morris

Brenda and Morris

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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2795

Good morning ~O) LLanders!
Morris remains about the same...still having liquipoos and puddingpoos despite being on the probiotics for 9 days. :sad: I'm about at the end of the rope....read about slippery elm bark and am going out to the vitamin shoppe today when they open to get some.

The mirtz should be wearing off now, this is the third day, and he is still eating, but not as much. I have been reading up on feline diarrhea and I think this may have started when I began giving him an assortment of foods because he didn't seem to like the ones he had been eating...or it could have been from drinking out of the toilet...who knows? I just hope it's not an ongoing thing, although 2 weeks is pretty ongoing to me! :o

Morris has his dental scheduled for tomorrow, and while he is out, I will have some more tests done, bloodwork and some tests to see if he has maybe IBD or some other problem. I am really disappointed in my vet and/or her office though...I asked about pre-surgical instructions when I made the appointment (in person last Tuesday), thinking they would hand me a sheet with instructions. They said someone would call on Saturday to confirm the appointment and go over the instructions with me....they didn't. The office not calling combined with the vet herself not calling me TWICE leads me to think there's something wrong at that office.

So now I don't have instructions from them....can anyone tell me if there is anything else besides no food 12 hours before? How about water? How about insulin (I think I will skip insulin anyway because I'm afraid he won't eat afterward and don't want insulin on board)?

Really looking forward to getting those teeth done...he will probably lose a few as he is having trouble chewing right now but that can only ease his pain and help. Then we need to get rid of the diarrhea....and then we can go back to trying to regulate, the reason why we are here! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 1/17 Morris AMPS 111

Hoping that Morris will feel better & glad he is eating!!--Maybe investigat a new vet--Moonie wants Morris to feel all well.
 
Re: 1/17 Morris AMPS 111

Nice AMPS for morris today.....
As far as the dental tomorrow...I do remember no food after midnight...no insulin in the am with no food....
Those were my instructions for my two when they had their dentals....
 
Re: 1/17 Morris AMPS 111 +7~110

Tested at +7 and got 110...quite the surf there! confused_cat

I gave him the slippery elm bark...it felt like giving him hemlock... :sad: just hope it works. :thumbup
 
Re: 1/17 Morris PMPS 184

Still the same, so-so eating and liquipoo...very worried about him...not sure he should have the dental as sick as he is...will call them in the a.m. before I take him over...maybe just do the bloodwork for now?
 
Re: 1/17 Morris AMPS 111

I hope Morris feels better. Do you think you should have the dental with him not being well? Maybe on of the angels will offer a suggestion. Good Luck Brenda. I have an IBD kitty so I know how bad it can be.
 
Re: 1/17 Morris Need Angel Help re Dental & Diarrhea

Barbara and tuffy said:
I hope Morris feels better. Do you think you should have the dental with him not being well? Maybe on of the angels will offer a suggestion. Good Luck Brenda. I have an IBD kitty so I know how bad it can be.
Click to expand...

Good idea about asking the angels...so here goes: Is it wise for me to go ahead with the dental on Morris tomorrow? Here's a recap of why I'm even asking: He has had diarrhea for 2 weeks, one week puddingpoo and most recenty liquipoo. It hasn't improved after 9 days on probiotics. He also stopped eating but gave him Mirtz on Friday and he has been eating fairly well. The 72 hours will be up tomorrow. He seems to be OK hydration-wise as I put lots of water in his food.

And...today I gave him slippery elm bark out of desperation to try and stop the diarrhea.....jury is still out on that one.

He is to have bloodwork and any other tests deemed necessary tomorrow along with the dental ... he is very "fractious" so we thought it best to wait until he's out for the dental ....but that was when we still thought the diarrhea would respond to the probiotics.

Anyone have any words of wisdom???
 
Re: 1/17 Morris AMPS 111

(((Brenda & Morris)))

Still having liquipoo?? I sure know how frustrating that is. :-Q Bee has IBD & had it for a over 2 months...but her appetite was astronomical too! A total in & out process. :roll:

Maybe the dental will help to clear it up, but it sounds wise to get more tests while you're already there.

Many vines for tomorrow. Will keep checking in on you two!

P.S. Just saw more recent posts. Sure not trying to advise...just lots of huggies!!
 
(((Brenda & Morris))) Maybe no Dental tomorrow with his symptoms? Additionally.. with a Vet who offers NO instructions? Whatever route you take... appointment or not.. prayers & peace to you both!!
 
sorry, I don't have an answer about doing a dental with liquipoo. I would call the vet's office and ask. Is he on antibiotics for the dental? Those could cause LP.

Dental instructions as I remember are usually no food after midnight, 1/2 insulin dose or none in the AM (depending on number). When he gets home, test right away so you'll know how fast he is dropping at PMPS time, since the anesthesia can cause some cats to keep dropping for a while. Might have to do BCS dose again tomorrow night depending on the drop.
 
((Brenda)) ((Morris)) sending healing thoughts and good wishes for no more yucky poo's...be a good boy Morris kitty
 
This is the long version of a note Jill put together about pre-dental questions and instructions. Some of this is directed to a kitty who will need extractions vs. a regular cleaning. Asking about whether this equipment is available and the kind of monitoring that is done will let you kow if your vet is state-of-the art with respect to dental procedures. If the diarrhea is due to an infection, I'd want to discuss the possibility of rescheduling the dental until it clears with the vet.

1). pre-dental antiobiotic - clindamyacin (begin 5 days prior to dental)
2). have pre-dental x-rays done.
3). have bloodwork done.
4). monitor blood pressure with doppler machine.
5). monitor heart rate.
6). IV fluids - only if needed. place an IV cath prior to procedure so there is quick veinous access, but don't need fluids unless kidneys are compromised.
7). anesthesia - Isoflurane? or sevo? either of these are good choices.
8). do you administer pain meds during the dental and after? would like buprenex if there are extractions.
9). post dental antiobiotics - administer clindamyacin for 5 days post-dental. do not give 14 day covenia shot.
10). use fortiflora (probiotic) while on antibiotics.
11). perform post dental x-rays to make sure nothing was missed.

vet told me to fast her for 8 hours before the procedure. water was allowed. give full dose of insulin the night before... half dose or skip shot in the morning (depending on her numbers).

also, do not overfeed her when she gets home, one of the drugs (valium) commonly use to knock them out for intubation is a strong feline appetite stimulant and anesthesia slows down the motility of the gut. listen to drugged cat and overfeed, there is no place for the food to go and a vomiting cycle can start, the last thing you need with possible dropping BG's that night and a cat that might not have full use of motor skills.

keeping her in a dark, quiet room will help if she has over excitation from one of the other drugs (ketamine) used to knock out for intubation (lights and noise trigger more excitation). the best thing to do is feed them a small amount and then let them sleep it off.

the following morning, everything as far as insulin and food goes back to normal. since there will be extractions, continue on the AB's, this is important, since there was a large amount of bacteria dumped directly into bloodstream via oral mucosa from dental (that likes to settle on heart valves and kidneys). best way to give AB's is to give 1/8 tab pepcid (AC only not Complete) 1/2 hour before feeding, feed, and then give AB's 1/2 hour after to protect digestive upset. also, with any course of AB's, adding probiotics to food to protect the natural flora of gut is a good idea (don't want her to get bad diarrhea).

and with any dental that has extractions, please make sure you come home with pain meds. buprenex, given by squirting on gums/cheek pouch to absorb in is the preferred pain med for felines. your vet can send you home with needle-less syringes pre-filled for you to use. they do not have to be refrigerated, but do protect from light.

of course no crunchy type treats for a while, and making food soupy with water helps if there has been multiple extractions. the rate of healing is very much an ECID type of thing, but keep ahead of the pain, the day after the dental is usually the toughest one...cats do heal amazing fast.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
sorry, I don't have an answer about doing a dental with liquipoo. I would call the vet's office and ask. Is he on antibiotics for the dental? Those could cause LP.

Dental instructions as I remember are usually no food after midnight, 1/2 insulin dose or none in the AM (depending on number). When he gets home, test right away so you'll know how fast he is dropping at PMPS time, since the anesthesia can cause some cats to keep dropping for a while. Might have to do BCS dose again tomorrow night depending on the drop.
Click to expand...

No, he hasn't been given any antibiotics yet. The only thing he has been given other than insulin is Probiocin, 1 tsp. per day for 9 days, 1/4 of an OTC Pepcid today, and 1/3 capsule slippery elm bark today. Oh, and 1/4 Mirtazapine last Friday.
 
Brenda--you got NO instructions, No definite appt, and Morris doesnt feel good--I dont think I would do it, but I would bring him in to be checked over & get whatever tests he may need, even though I know he is difficult!
LOve you guys & only want the best--Want a healthy Morris...
 
Brenda, I think you might benefit by using a different probiotic. I looked up the one you are using and it has no bifidobacteria, which is one of the best strains for treating diarrhea. It also has vegetable oil, cornstarch, and sucrose. The vegetable oil and cornstarch both could be contributing to liquipoo in a sensitive kitty. Do you have a health food store or a Whole Foods near you?

I'm a big fan of ReNew Life Ultimate Flora Critical Care: http://www.renewlife.com/products/critical-care-50.aspx

I've used it extensively in Sasha for liquid/mucous poo, and it works impressively. It is very concentrated, easily mixed into food, and has no fillers. It also has 30 billion Bifidobacteria, which targets the causes of diarrhea specifically. That's one of my big complaints about FortiFlora and other veterinary products - many do not contain any Bifidobacteria, and FlortiFlora only has one strain if bacteria period. Since we do not know exactly what good bacteria resides within our animals, a variety of bacteria has a better chance if actually creating the right populations.
 
((Brenda)) I hope that Morris is doing better this evening...

Good suggestion from Cassandra regarding the probiotic.. I had a dog that had bouts of liquipoo and was told that the higher the bifidobacteria is the better.

Sooo hard when cat has no appy and then finding a food that they will eat and not add to the already existing problem **sigh**

I would try to get the liquipoo taken care of before the dental..

Feel better Morris!
 
i hear more of Culturelle (a yogurt type refrigerated kind) and fortiflora as having enough live bacteria to do the job.
vet may prescribe flagyl or something like it to help firm the poo up, too. sometimes it just takes about a week of it.
good luck with the dental. my understanding is half insulin unless preshot value is low; no insulin for low preshot. but it depends on the vet's instrux.
 
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