2/1 Bear Man Diagnosed with CRF

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Linda and Bear Man

Linda and Bear Man

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viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4633

I'm really concerned about his numbers. This morning he vomited, so once again I am bailing out of the experiment to reduce his Omeprazole. And I will be bailing out of the new prednisoline bid dosing experiment as well. It just seems to be making things worse. I started a new cart yesterday, and that didn't help. His b/w a week ago showed normal WBC, so no infection present. I don't know what's going on.
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

Good morning,Linda!
Wish and hope for sweet Bear to get better! How is teddy doing?
Day off today?
Stay worm!
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

gosh, i feel for you, linda.
hopefully the change back will do the trick for him.
can you get a midpoint test in sometime tonight? wondering whether he needs a teensy fattening of his dose.
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

(((Linda)))
Sorry about Bear's numbers and the medication issues. No words of wisdom here just a little support. I know how hard it can be to want answers to higher numbers.
How is Teddy?
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

The switching pred to twice a day was completely worth trying...and Im glad you did. Its been in the back of my mind for a while now. Im just sorry its not producing the results you had hoped. You did switch to giving it at night, right? I wonder if because the cortisone level (thats what it is, yes?) is lower at night that by giving some of it during the day you are producing greater amounts in the day time than necessary? Im just thinking outloud and really have not had enough coffee to make sense...sorry!

Im sorry about the vomiting and I dont blame you for not wanting to cut out a tummy med right now.

Why doesnt bearman feel better :sad:

(((((((bear man)))))))) (((((((((linda))))))))))
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

Good morning Linda. Sorry to hear that Bear isn't feeling so well and to see that he has such high numbers. I don't have much advise, but I do have a great big ol hug for you guys (((((Linda, Bear Man & Teddy))))))))))
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243

Hugs from me as well.

I'm so glad there are others here that can help with your medication dilemmas. There is so much experience here, which people so freely share. You're never alone.
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243, pmps 140

pmps 140: now this is a number I can live with.

I am still planning to go back (tomorrow) to giving prednisolone once daily with the p.m. insulin. I can discuss this with the vet tonight. I am taking Teddy in for bloodwork and a recheck, and I will discuss my concerns about him, as well as Bear's blood test results from last week (the vet has been away since those results came in).

The boys are feeling OK. Bear gave Teddy a little face wash last night, until it devolved into a swatting match. Bear didn't have any accidents while I was at work today. Teddy was sick on my bed :YMSIGH: , but he is currently chasing my silver bracelet around the bedroom floor. Thanks to everyone who came to my little pity party today.
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243, pmps 140

(((Linda, Bear Man, Teddy)))

That last post put a smile on my face. Hope you find the magic combination for Bear Man.
 
Re: 2/1 Bear Man amps 243, pmps 140

Those kitties really adore each other and you!

Sometimes an experiment that doesn't work tells you a great deal. At the minimum, you're not asking yourself, "What if..."

Bear's PMPS looks good!
 
Warning: pity party is not over yet ....

Just came home from vet after Teddy recheck and discussion about Bear's bloodwork. I wasn't expecting to hear this, but his urea, creatinine, USG, and now phosphorus at the high end of the normal range mean that he now is diagnosed with CRF. The vet was talking about phosphorus binders and sent me home with cans of prescription k/d and low protein diet. I'm very bummed out. I have not been paying attention in CRF class. Whenever people talk about it I put my fingers in my ears and hum because it seems overwhelming to manage on its ow, let alone with a half dozen other co-morbidities. I have to feed Teddy the same food as Bear, or I have to separate them all day. That would be so sad. Those two kitties barely eat now, when they like their food. How am I going to manage this? I am sad for the two boys.
 
:sad:
(((((((((linda))))))))) ((((((((((((bear)))))))))))))
That stinks BIG TIME!

Would you mind posting lab results they gave you? Im confused with what you say values are at the bottom of normal....you mean top, right?

And binders...well...lets see what your labs reveal...and keep in mind something pointed out in chris' condo a while ago that binders can interfere with other meds and/or you will need to space them apart. I have not come accross that yet. Hopefully Cassandra, or someone else may pop in and guide you there.

But again..post the labs...and remember crf is not an immediate end. it can be managed - Latte is proof! :mrgreen: (3yr anniversary party coming in days!!!!!!)

Oh...and the k/d....LOADED with carbs! I dont/wont feed that to Latte.
 
yeah, my vet mentioned the k/d after saying it's controversial whether lowering the protein really matters.
it's just one reading, at one time, so i'd be aware but not totally convinced yet. but we've seen plenty of crf kitties around here who've been around for years.
i didn't take the k/d. you can find the same balance using supermarket foods.
take a look at felinecrf.com and felinecrf.org, tho, for some background info.
we're here for you, linda. (((HUGS)))
 
(((Linda))) (((Bear)))
aw this sucks,,,I'm so sorry about the DX...stay strong Linda, for your babies, I know you have it in you, you can do this.
((((((((HUGS)))))))
 
((((Linda and Bear Man)))) You're such a terrific mommabean, I think you'll get through this, like everything else.
I have faith in you. Bear Man has faith in you. We are here for you, always.
 
Linda, I'm really bummed for your guys. You've had more than your fair share of obstacles. Hopefully others with more experience with CRF can help you with some strategies to help Bear Man enjoy more days and more quality of life.

Sending good thoughts your way, and wishing you the wisdom, health, and stamina it'll take to guide Bear Man through this new obstacle.
 
fwiw, Kitty (CRF) ate with Mousie (diabetic) so we fed some of the Friskies Special Diet flavors. not sure if they have those up there? if so there are i think 4 of them that are both low carb AND low phosphorous. we also stirred extra water into all the food to help her kidneys and she got some oral meds for it too.

here's holly's post with CRF info. take this just like you did the diabetes Linda, read, ask questions and learn.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1123

just my opinion but the CRF was easier to deal with than the diabetes as far as figuring out what to do for it. ((((Linda))))
 
Hoping maybe the diet change will help them both feel better. Lots of people are keeping your boys on their radar. More hugs to you all...
 
Yes, that was a typo about the phosphorus. That's how clueless I am. Top of the normal range.

Urea (similar to US BUN?): 18.0 (Ref 5.0 - 13.0) US equivalent = 50.42

Creatinine: 223 (Ref 50 - 177) US equiv = 2.52

Phosphorus: 2.4 (Ref 0.8 - 2.5) US equiv = 7.43

USG not done this time, but last two times it was 1.020.
 
I am also in the know nothing group, but there isn't a day goes by that I don't think of Bear Man and send him well wishes.
I sure wish I could do more.
 
it isn't great, but it's not really bad either, cept for the phos. and that you can bring down with change of food or adding binder. could get a bit challenging b/c of his evo snacks, but it can be done.

quick question - he can't do squids b/c of the cushing's, right?

has his appy been bad? high phos could be the cause of that - makes him feel really yucky.
 
Linda, I just caught this on FB.
We are all here for you. We know you can handle his with your love for both Bear Man and Teddy.

Sending lots of love,prayers and hugs to all of you!!!
 
WCF and Meowzi said:
it isn't great, but it's not really bad either, cept for the phos. and that you can bring down with change of food or adding binder. could get a bit challenging b/c of his evo snacks, but it can be done.

quick question - he can't do squids b/c of the cushing's, right?

has his appy been bad? high phos could be the cause of that - makes him feel really yucky.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Choy-Foong. That is encouraging.

The vet is looking into a binder. She is trying to get a capsule rather than a liquid.
She said tonight that she still doesn't want him to get squids because of skin tearing and bruising concerns.
Appy has historically been poor for him, hence the Evo snacks, but not significantly worse of late. The house soiling and diarrhea are realtively recent, though.

His potassium is still at the bottom of the normal range (3.7 ref range = 3.7 - 5.8) despite supplementation. I am to double his supplement.
RBC and Hemoglobin are below normal range.
 
(((((Dearest Linda)))))) So sorry to hear this but knowing you, you will find a way to work with this...I am a know nothing, but I am here for you anytime, anyday! I just know you will get through this..HUGS to you all, and Blessings...
 
Sending hugs to you and your boys...I know you will figure out
something that will work for the two of them so they can be together....
lots of people here who will help you out Linda...everyone will chip in with all the
information they have. You will be okay...it's just a real bummer to hear this I know...
but be strong...we are sending loving thoughts to you now...((Linda))
 
Sending lots of healing vibes to your sweet boys and lots of hugs to all of you - hope you can figure something out that will benefit all without separation - there are so many people on here who have knowledge about CRF (which I do not) and am sure you will get good advice.

Meanwhile, know that many good thoughts and healing vibes are coming your way.

Emmy & Dude (& Mittsi too)
 
So sorry to hear your news, Linda. I know you will get a lot of helpful information from others, but I will just say that I'm keeping you and the boys in my thoughts and have high hopes that things will really get better.
 
Hugs from Esse and me (and the other 8...). I don't know anything, but I'm with the others when they say you're a good mamabean...

Best-
Michele
 
Sending you, Bear Man and Teddy many hugs tonight.

I have experience with CRF but not CRF and diabetes combined. I do know in my experience the CRF food didn't make a difference with my kitty and her numbers...not to mention she never wanted to eat it. We eventually gave up on the CRF food.
 
(((Linda))) ((((Bear Man))))

Can't offer you anything but my support and well wishes. Just remember that Bear Man is a real fighter and you are a GREAT momma bean. We will be keeping you in our thoughts. :YMHUG:
 
*If* this is CKD (I don't like the term CRF, F sounds so .... well, final!), he's likely in Stage 2 according to the IRIS staging charts. See http://www.iris-kidney.com/pdf/IRIS%20A5%20Cards.pdf slides 3 and 4 for a quick overview (they have staging for dogs in there too, in slides 1 and 2 - skip those or you'll give yourself a big fright, like I did).

Here's a more extensive IRIS staging document: http://www.iris-kidney.com/pdf/IRIS%202 ... %20CKD.pdf I've read it once, now I'm lazy and just scroll to slide 5 for the flowchart. Notice they start with creatinine, but they also sub-stage by urine protein/creatinine ratio and BP. Has he had those measured? If he's spilling protein, the approach is a little different - you'll add benazepril into the mix, and that has to be given apart from the binder.

I know what is generally recommended in managing CKD, but I hesitate to comment much here because of his complicated history - the pyelonephritis and Cushing's and hyper-t, among others. (Did he get another T4 rerun yet?) And that low RBC and Hemoglobin - at Stage 2, or even early Stage 3 - has me stumped; we haven't had to deal with that yet. Jess or Jojo or Dr Lisa may be the best folks to seek thoughts from. He's had extensive x-rays and ultrasounds, right? No kidney stones, just recurring pyelonephritis? Maybe send Jess a PM and link to this condo for her thoughts? (Add in all the values and ref ranges you have available - CBC, chem, T4, eta: urinalysis, culture, if done, etc - if you do, so they can get the whole picture).

Speaking of renal food, if you want to try any, the only one that's low enough in carbs for a sugarkitty is the Royal Canin line. I'm not for or against renal diets; it's a decision you'll have to arrive at yourself. There is an interesting thread on the old Think Tank about it; I can get you the link if you'd like to read it, after this all sinks in.
 
(((Linda)))

I have no words of wisdom. But do let me know if you need any lit searched. (I've got access to lots of med library databases.)
 
Linda and Bear Man said:
Warning: pity party is not over yet ....

Just came home from vet after Teddy recheck and discussion about Bear's bloodwork. I wasn't expecting to hear this, but his urea, creatinine, USG, and now phosphorus at the high end of the normal range mean that he now is diagnosed with CRF. The vet was talking about phosphorus binders and sent me home with cans of prescription k/d and low protein diet. I'm very bummed out. I have not been paying attention in CRF class. Whenever people talk about it I put my fingers in my ears and hum because it seems overwhelming to manage on its ow, let alone with a half dozen other co-morbidities. I have to feed Teddy the same food as Bear, or I have to separate them all day. That would be so sad. Those two kitties barely eat now, when they like their food. How am I going to manage this? I am sad for the two boys.
Click to expand...

Zooming through some condos... so didn't read all of the messages.
I want to suggest a phone consult with Dr Lisa. They are worth every penny if you have a cat with multiple diagnoses.
Cosmo was dx with CRF right after the dx of diabetes (over 18 mos ago) and he's not on phos binders or special food. We use high quality protein, low carb, low phosphorus canned food. She might ahve a better suggestion than the prescription food, but I can't say with all of Bear man's other issues. I feed his littermate brother the same thing.

Honestly? the CRF has not been difficult to manage. Much less stressful than the diabetes, even if the harpoons SQ needles are quite large.

((Linda)). Feel free to email or PM me if you want to ask any specific questions about our experience. Or just to notify me that you have questions in your condo. I'll try to keep checking in.

((LInda and Bear))
 
I too am in the know nothing group, but did want to wish you and bear man well. I have had a few cats that were CRF - it can be dealt with. I hope the same for bear man. Many hugs for you and bear man, from Mannie and me.
 
(((Linda - Bear - Teddy))); Snowflakes, Reiki, healing vines and feel better vines to all of you. Linda, you do such a magnificent job with your "boys" don't ever doubt yourself. You can have a whine session whenever you want. (HUGS)
 
(((((((Linda))))))))) ((((((((Bear))))))))) (((((((((((Teddy))))))))))))

I don't know anything either, but others here do, plus I also am sure you will learn really quickly. Hang in there!
 
Linda I wish I was there to give you a real big hug. I know how worried you must be. One thing I do know though is that you will figure out what is best for your boys. If ever there was a Bean who could it's you. Wish I could help but all I can do is send good vibes and prayers for the three of you.
 
(((((linda and bear)))))
i'm glad there are others who can help you with this. all i can do is send love, support, and many, many snowflakes...
 
When Stickey was dx with CRF his creatinine was over the 800. Don't know the US equivalent.
He got an iv. Later on I gave the fluids subq.
Maybe that's an option so now and then.
He had oral meds as well. I don't remember what kind though. Sorry.

All in all: he lived for 3/4 year before I had to put him to sleep. In the end he got an infection after a fight with another cat. I'm sure without the infection he would have had more day's. So watch out for that as well. Balancing CRF can be tough.

((( Bear )))
((( Linda )))
 
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