2/4 Bear Man amps 185, pmps 245, pm+3 268

Status
Not open for further replies.
Linda and Bear Man

Linda and Bear Man

Very Active Member
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5094

One hour before amps, his BG was 245.

Today is the first day I head off to tbp with the new renal diet feeding regime. I went to the elaborate trouble of putting the two renal canned foods into timer dishes, mixing in water, because the renal stuff goes dry and crusts over in about an hour. It's the most disgusting food. I offered two dishes of it just now, sprinkled with fortiflora. He won't touch it and I know he won't touch the stuff in the timers. I put out two types of renal kibble. Bear will probably nibble on that if Teddy leaves any for him. Teddy goes hysterical around it. He can't get enough of it. I left Teddy's canned FF on a table where Bear can't jump up. It won't be touched. I predict that Teddy will be a diabetic within a week. I can't believe I am feeding my cats the highest carb food on the planet. This is just wrong. The goal is to get Bear's phosphorus down to the exclusion of all other concerns, I guess.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Oh Linda. I just knocked on wood for you and your cats, that everything turns out better than you think.
I hope Bear eats his food, and Teddy eats his food, and you feel better about it when you get home from tbp.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

((((((((Linda)))))))) As everybody else said, fingers and paws crossed that everybody eats what they are supposed to eat today.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Oh Linda, this sounds like a difficult situation but you are doing the very best you can. Like everyone else I am hoping that they both eat as they're suppossed to and things will smooth out a bit. Perhaps it will just take time for them to get used to the changes. I know it's rough on you especially while at work, but keep your spirits up.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

(((((Linda))))) I know it's gotta be just killing you to have to head off to tbp today...anxiety level must be way over the top. I hope that everyone eats their own food today and things go well so that you will feel better about carrying on w/your life as usual. I know this is really tough on you. You are doing the very very best that you can do in this situation.
Thoughts and prayers are with you, Bear Man, and Teddy.

BEHAVE BOYZ!!
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

So much of your thoughts have gone into this whole feeding situation ....I hope the boys
will eat the right stuff after all your efforts... ((Linda)) Crazy, huh? You have done so much regarding
this and I admire you for all the great work you have done Linda! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Paws & fingers crossed for good eating of the Boys!! You are the number one MOMMA bean of all times!! Boys--Cooperate!!! :lol:
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

*sigh* so many hard choices. That HC food can't be good for Teddy, you're right. And kibble goes against the grain of hydration, which every CKD kitty needs. I can just see jojo having a fit when she checks in.

What food has Bear agreed to eat in the past? And what has he been eating in recent weeks? Maybe if you substitute or even reduce the highest-phos foods in recent weeks with a lower-phos food that he has agreed to eat in the past - mixing them, if he'll tolerate it - you can average it down - kwim? I have a list of lower-phos foods I can PM you - it's not current but you can probably run it against J&B's charts really quickly.

Refresh my memory again - what are the renal foods he'll be trying? We can see if there are comparable lower phos food on J&B's charts.

Leaving myself a reminder here to come back to post about niacinamide and azodyl, if I can stay awake tonight. Am going through one of those phases where I just can't seem to get enough sleep - I think depression caused by that silly groundhog may have something to do with it.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Linda and Bear Man said:
The goal is to get Bear's phosphorus down to the exclusion of all other concerns, I guess.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. See my post just before this one; let's see if we can work something out. (((Linda)))
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

WCF and Meowzi said:
What food has Bear agreed to eat in the past? And what has he been eating in recent weeks? Maybe if you substitute or even reduce the highest-phos foods in recent weeks with a lower-phos food that he has agreed to eat in the past - mixing them, if he'll tolerate it - you can average it down - kwim? I have a list of lower-phos foods I can PM you - it's not current but you can probably run it against J&B's charts really quickly.
Refresh my memory again - what are the renal foods he'll be trying? We can see if there are comparable lower phos food on J&B's charts.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your help, Choy-Foong.

He has been eating Fancy Feast - five pate flavors, two of which have been banned in Canada and which I have stockpiled. In the past he has agreed to eat some Evo canned varieties, but it seemed to cause (or be closely related in time with) a CP flare, so I backed off. There seems to be an Evo 95% Venison which is somewhat low phos, so I may try to find that. He does not normally like Wellness. There are a lot of foods that I can't buy here. For instance, a lot of people have mentioned Friskies Special Diet, which I have not seen here.

The renal foods: I have Royal Canin Reduced Protein and KD, canned and dry. I have ordered Royal Canin chunks and gravy. The only other renal Rx diet available is Purina NF.

Last night I offered Red Prot with FF on top, and it wasn't a go. Fortiflora is not helping much. The kibble is scaring me. He always had his Evo snacks, but never this much dry.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Linda and Bear Man said:
The kibble is scaring me.
Click to expand...

It's scaring me too, Linda. If I had to choose between low-phos dry and higher-phos canned, I'd probably go with higher-phos canned, especially with a renal kitty that cannot get SQuids. I honestly don't know which choice does less harm, but that's how I would choose.

Here's a little good news: the only low-carb FF I can find that's low in phos is Flaked Chicken and Tuna Feast. Which suggests to me that all of Bear's FF so far, are higher in phos. And any reduction from that has got to be an improvement, if you know what i mean. If you want to list the five pate flavours tonight, we can figure out how much of an improvement.

Friskies Beef & Liver Dinner, and Friskies Chunks with Beef in Gravy - got these from J&B's non-USA cat food chart, under Friskies Canada. Can you find them where you are? They're not as low in phos as I'd like, but they're probably lower than the FF you're feeding now, and they fall below the 250mg/100 calories most of us CKD kitty guardians use as the guideline. Also 2% and 11% calories from carbs, respectively. There are others I found too, in the non-US food chart - some could be outside Canada, but there's no way I can tell. PM me your e-mail addy, I'll send it to you?
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

(((Linda)))

I am so sorry for all you have to go through.....you are wonderful.
I will also offer to send you some of the food you cannot get in Canada if you would like.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

I buy Friskies SD beef/liver and chicken/liver, both 4 carbs, and used to supplement the Merrick with it. Now the civvies mostly eat it but I know it's safe for KB if he gets into their leftover crumbs. The SD Ocean Whitefish I also keep on hand, it's low everything I think.

Linda, if you can't find this in Canada (I can get mine in the grocery store), would it be legal for me to ship you some?
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

WCF and Meowzi said:
If you want to list the five pate flavours tonight, we can figure out how much of an improvement

Friskies Beef & Liver Dinner, and Friskies Chunks with Beef in Gravy - got these from J&B's non-USA cat food chart, under Friskies Canada. Can you find them where you are?
Click to expand...

pmps 245.
There was hardly any urine from the boys today. Teddy uncharacteristcally used the litter box in front of me and, on a whim, I got a urine specimen from him to check for glucose. I was kind of shocked to see it was a dark amber color. Maybe I am not used to seeing concentrated cat urine, or maybe there was blood in it. It's at the vet now, and I am waiting for a call. Teddy was at the vet 3 days ago for a recheck. His bloodwork was great, and a sterile urine specimen was taken, but we didn't culture it because it was very concentrated and his b/w was fine.

The five pate flavors: Beef and Liver Feast (banned), Tender Beef Feast (banned), Turkey and Giblets Feast, Tender Liver and Chicken Feast, Chicken Feast (new flavor).
I picked up the Medi Cal/Royal Canin Renal LP (Big chunks, not much gravy) and he ate some.
I will look for the Friskies you mentioned (right now I'm stuck in the house waiting for the vet to call).

Miriam/Nina (((Thank you))). I think they would seize any food with beef. I'm not sure about other flavors. I can also drive to Buffalo to buy some cat food - about 2 hours each way. I think it was Randi/Max who had some cat food seized at the border???
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185, pmps 245

Hi Linda
What a challenge you have coming up with a proper food for Bear Man and the ridiculous ban and unavailabilty of beef flavours in Canada.
I saw EVO 95% venison and duck at a specialized pet food store near me.
Friskies Beef is impossible to find and I am not sure about the Special Diet.
Why don't you pm me a list of food that you think might be good for Teddy and I can check out the Quebec stores. I can ship out to you and not worry about the border.
Our selection is usually pretty pathetic but you never know.
What about Loblaws PC brands?
Anything to help that Sweet Bear man and Teddy!
 
The vet called - Teddy's urine is O.K. It was just very concentrated. I guess that's because he ate nothing but kibble all day. The KD also really flared up his diarrhea. It is definitely not a permanent solution for either of the boys.

Randi - Thank you! I will let you know when I am able to decide what food I am looking for.
 
Glad to here Teddy's results are good and do not hesitate to let me know if I can find
something for you on this side of the border.
I love a challenge!!
 
Hi Linda,
Did I miss somewhere that you were not going to put a binder in food? Or are you waiting for it to come in?

If you can use Dried Aluminum Hydroxide Gel Powder AND I am allowed to mail it over the border in a tuperware container, I can do so. I have enough for a dozen cat's living 9 lives! This way you can mix it in whatever food they are eating and you will have more freedom in what you feed.

Let me know
 
Hi Carolyn,
I am waiting for the vet to get in some compounded capsules of aluminum hydroxide. Your offer sounds very compelling. My only concern is that he is an unpredictable eater - I will mix the stuff in, and then he will only take a nibble or two. If I pill him with the capsule, I know it got inside him. But I am interested. Sending you a pm.
 
Re: 2/4 Bear Man amps 185

Glad Teddy's urine is ok!

Phos content mg/100 cal
Beef and Liver Feast (banned) ~ 253
Tender Beef Feast (banned) ~ 287
Turkey and Giblets Feast ~ 396
Tender Liver and Chicken Feast ~ 352
Chicken Feast (new flavor) ~ ?
Medi Cal/Royal Canin Renal LP (Big chunks, not much gravy) ~ 64 - 120? (there's also a recent formula change I think, so not sure)

IMHO, he may be better off going below 200 mg/100 calories. But again, I'm not a vet or nutritionist or anything even close.

There are a couple of flavours just over 200 that I forgot about that we have fed on/off (more off now, she veto-ed them the last round): Merricks Turducken, Merricks Cowboy Cookout (not fed, we don't feed beef), Wellness Beef & Chicken (not fed), W. Chicken (syringe-fed, so she hates it now, lol!), W. Kitten.

On to two other subjects:
Niacinamide, as alternative to aluminium hydroxide. See if your vet can find any info on it. The VIN pharmacologist suggested it for Meowzi; he didn't like aluminium b/c of its toxicity. But we're afraid to rock the boat; she's done well on both ALOH3 and Fosrenol, so we didn't pursue it further (not yet, anyway). AFAIK, there may be a couple of dogs on it, but no cats that I know of. There were a couple of mentions of it in the Phos-Mgmt group. Here's the human study on it A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial of Niacinamide for Reduction of Phosphorus in Hemodialysis Patients but I think the patients remained on phos binder throughout. Of interest to you may be the question whether niacinamide interferes with the absorption of meds like ALOH3 does. Also since I am not personally aware of any kitties on it, I don't know anything about its safety in cats - aside that it was suggested for Meowzi by the pharmacologist.

Azodyl. We do use this. See
http://felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#azodyl
http://www.azodyl.com/pages/global_06.html
Ask Bear's vet if he could benefit from it. It won't reverse the progression, but it may help him feel better.
 
I'm just sending more hugs ((((Linda)))) the food talk is going over my head, though I should be paying attention because I know I'll be dealing with it some day (hopefully far in the future).
 
Libby and Lucy said:
I'm just sending more hugs ((((Linda)))) the food talk is going over my head, though I should be paying attention because I know I'll be dealing with it some day (hopefully far in the future).
Click to expand...

actually, please don't take notes on the food talk here, anyone. there are much better choices that ckd kitties can resort to first, and binders are an option for most kitties. we're just trying to make the best we can of a difficult appy and health situation with bear (and hopefully not make it any worse).

if you can get that ALOH3 from carolyn, and bear will eat food with it, linda, your food choices will grow substantially. he can even have some of his beloved dry evo, with binder mixed in. question is, will it make it across the border without being confiscated.
 
What a headache! How womderful that people are willing to lend a hand!

What if you were to grind your own beef for cat food? Would that be a possibility?
 
wait a minute.i tried real quick to read back a few days to se what is going on here and gave up and just opened his labs instaed. . . .

okay i won't talk all medical here, just in plain language~ we have a cat that has a high sodium level, low potassium level, even with supplementation, that now has signs of CRI (like not primary CRI, but as result of something else). . .this looks like an endocrine problem to me. has vet ever mentioned hyperaldosteronism to you at all??
here went and grabbed a quick link, this sounds like bearman no? http://www.vetstreamfelis.com/ACI/March ... s60674.asp
maybe vet didn't think of it cause there are ocular signs that are often tip off and bearman wouldn't have those?
hey if i'm way off base here, i sorry, i really should not be posting, just finished 3 day crisis and am so drained i can barely type (like if you could hear my typing it would sound slurred, lol), but someone told me i should stop by bearman's condo and between the labs and what i know of what you have told me of his symptoms. . . hyperaldosteronism (conn's dz) just was flashing in neon letters in my mind. weird though it is like the opposite of cushing's. ack, maybe i'm way off. do some reading see what you think and let me know okay? i'll think more about this tomorrow when i can think clearer. gotta go ni-ni now.
~jojo
 
sounds as tho even if he doesn't love it, he might eat the wellness chicken, so that would be my suggestion. i'm starting cleo on it myself, mixed with water.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top