New Member 2/10/2021

Hello everyone! I am a new member to this community, but not really new to FD. My sugar baby was diagnosed awhile ago and was initially started on 0.5u Prozinc BID. He was gradually increased to 4.5u BID, which he is currently on right now. I honestly just went by the recommendations from my vet until recently a friend told me about a FD group on FB and I was advised to join FDMB. I know my baby is on a high dose of insulin that is not being weaned by the vet with his curve days (now only done every 6mo). It has been conncernig to me for awhile now. I decided to buy a glucometer and this evening was the first time I tested at home. So this morning at 8am (EST) I fed Toes when I got home from work, gave him 4u of his Prozinc after he ate some. I tested him +9 with him not eating for 2-3hours before testing. Glocose was 111 at 530pm. I fed him this evening at 630pm and did not give him any insulin.. I am so overwhelmed now and I don't know where to begin with making a spreadsheet, how often do I test his levels, ect.... I feel like a horrible cat mom and I should have began testing earlier than I have.. I am thankful he never had any serious negative reactions to "blind shooting" his insulin for this long. He is due for an all day curve with the vet next week and I plan on telling them I WILL be testing at home from now on, regardless of the vets reaction. I want to keep my baby safe and to hopefully get him weaned from such a high dose. So, so sorry for such a long post. I just want to do the right thing.

 

Hi Nicole and Toe and welcome to the forum.
Sorry no one has responded sooner.
FD can be overwhelming but you have come to the best possible place.
I am going to tag @Bandit's Mom to help you with the spreadsheet.
I am out at the moment and on my iPhone but will answer your questions when I get home.
Just wanted to let you know we have seen your post. Toe is a cutie!
Bron

 

Hi Nicole

Welcome to FDMB! You are not a horrible cat mom at all. You are doing your best! FD is indeed overwhelming and that's compounded by vets not recommending home testing and increasing doses by too much.

I will send you a PM with the details I need to set up your spreadsheet and signature.

Bhooma

 

Hi Nicole,
Can you tell us what food you are feeding Toe and how often you feed him?
Do you feed him before the shot and give him snacks during the first half of the cycle? I know you work but an automatic feeder is a great idea to feed cats snacks when you are not there.

Can you tell us what type of meter you are using? Is it a human meter or a pet meter?
You don’t need the vets permission to home test the blood glucose levels.

I am not a Prozinc user so I will tag @Deb & Wink to help you with that.

now that you have a meter, we recommend, testing before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose of insulin
We also recommend testing during the cycle to see how low the dose is taking Toe.
So test at maybe +3 and +5 You can change the times around to suit your schedule but testing during the first half of the cycle will give you the best information and keep Toe safe. If the BGs are low during the first half of the cycle you will need to keep testing unit
He is in goood numbers.

Do you have a hypo kit
Here is a link to useful information which has info about a hypo kit within it.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

don’t feed foe the 2 hours before the shot as we need the preshot number to be not food influenced.

krep asking questions. You are not a bad cat mom, you are a good one!

 

So I feed him all wet food. I changed to strictly that when he was first diagnosed. I feed either Friskies or Fancy Feast (many different varieties but pate is included) I honestly didn't know the gravy brands were higher carb, which is probably why he is on such a high dose of Prozinc and probably hasn't had major hypo issues. He does like only certain kinds better (I have purchased soooooo many different flavors, etc. He can be picky)

I do feed him before his shots. He will usually eat a good amount and probably a half hour later I will give him his shot. My boyfriend and I have, in the past, given him his shot while he was eating though. He also grazes on his food for a few hours. But at times, he will eat all of the food. I do not give him snacks usually (sometimes he will get treats, but not many) He seems to be constantly hungry ALL THE TIME!

I bought the ReliOn Premier (human) meter.
And currently I do not have a hypo kit

Thank you for the response too, I greatly appreciate it!

 

It is difficult to give dosing advice without a spreadsheet and data. If I understand right he has been on 4U of Prozinc and last night's shot was skipped?

Are you also switching from HC (FF gravy) to LC (FF pate)? Or has that change been made a few days back?

 

Well his dose for over a year now has been 4.5u BID and he did mostly get fed the HC FF/Friskies gravy wet food. I just gave him 0.5u less yesterday morning and then tested for the first time that evening. Idk why I didn't test in the morning though... He does get some FF pate but he prefers the gravy. And yes I did skip last night's dose bc his sugar was 111.

I'm surprised I haven't killed my cat for not testing like I should have. I feel so stupid because we've been blind shooting him for so long now... I work as a respiratory therapist so I should know better.. I'm just upset at myself

 

If you switch from the gravy to pate/LC, his insulin needs will come down dramatically. I would make the switch even though he likes gravy!

I see from your post on FB that you have given him 1U this AM? Is he still eating FF gravy or have you been able to switch him to FF classics/pate?

 

Last night (630pm) he was given Friskies turkey shreds. He always seems hungry between feeds day/night so last night I did give 1 small can of FF beef pate between him and his brother as a snack. Then when I tested this morning at 0700, his glucose was 178. I fed him 2 small cans FF turkey/giblets pate (a small amount is given to his brother, as he prefers dry food that I keep out of Toes reach) Toes is a grazer so he doesn't eat the full amount but he did eat a decent amount this morning. About 40mins after he ate some, I administered 1u. I plan to test him before I leave for my dentist appointment. So probably around 1030-1045.

 

He could be very hungry both in high numbers as well as low numbers!

 

I've told my vet numerous times about this and her response was to feed him if he was hungry. I have given minimal amounts of dry food before. I won't be doing that anymore though. Just maybe some pate and I plan to boil chicken to cut up as a snack as well in between feedings.

 

Yes. A food change is definitely in order. Makes no sense to carb him up and give him a high dose of insulin.

When you can - later today - could you please input whatever numbers you have - BG numbers from vet curves or home testing and what dose you gave him every day - into the SS I have set-up for you? Data from 01/01/2021 would be good enough. We are handicapped without data here!

And I don't know if you've seen this sticky on the Prozin Dosing Methods? https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Sorry if that is too much info all at once!

 

Welcome to the group, we are new here too so trust me, we have been nothing but grateful to this group for all the advise and support we received here.

What i would recommend doing is making a blood glucose curve, if your look at Chico's spreadsheet we did it on the 30.01.2021, you measure blood sugar every 2 hours, it helped us understand what nadir is, how to spot it, what is length of action of insulin and for us it was very useful because it helped us understand that the insulin we were on was not appropriate for Chico so we changed it. Having more data in will be much more useful for people with more experience to understand your kitties reaction to insulin.

Measuring in the beginning ca be very challenging, we struggled a lot, very often we had to force him to measure and he was pretty nervous around measuring time. With time it gets much better, giving them treats after each measurement is very helpful. We give Chico boiled chicken breast and he loves it, now 90% of the time he sees the measuring kit he comes to us alone and sits on out lap (great win for us)

It is not enough for him to be willing to be measured, he won't like it if you have to pinch him 4-5 times to get a blood sample (nobody would). We found the sock with rice warmed in the microwave to do miracles: the ear warms up in a matter or seconds and the blood droplet is of a decent size to take the sample.

Good luck and equip yourself with a lot of patience, sometimes trying to make sense of the numbers is a challenge but i am sure you will manage it

 

Hi Nicole, Bron asked me to stop in and look at what is going on with you and your cat Toes.

We all live in different parts of the world, so we express time in a + hour format. Each hour is labeled from the time you gave the insulin shot. Two cycles of 12 hours each in every 24 hour period. So there is the AMPS and the PMPS. 1 hour after the insulin shot would be recorded on the SS (spreadsheet) as +1, 2 hours as +2, etc.

Don't worry right now about not having much test data. Enter on the spreadsheet what you do have from your home testing the last couple of days. Then, if you have any data from your vet, you can go back and add that information to the SS.

Here is a thread that explains the SS (spreadsheet). How to Use the Spreadsheet
Simply click on the blue colored text to open that thread.

Once you have some data entered, I'll take another look and see what is going on.

Thanks. You've found us and we will help when we can.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now? Some mindfulness breathing, since it's a great stress reliever. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.....

 

Hi Nicole,

While it is recommended to feed feline diabetics a low carb food, for safety please don't make any changes to Toe's diet until you've gathered some BG data in his spreadsheet and understand better how he's currently responding to his insulin. Dropping the carb load may require dose decreases in parallel so very close BG monitoring is needed during the transition period to ensure a kitty doesn't go too low.

Here is a vet-authored article covering how to safely transition a cat on insulin to a lower carb diet:

catinfo.org - Feline diabetes page


Mogs
.

 

Yes. I will put all my numbers in. I have a vet appointment next week and I will have them give me all of his data as well. I'm not sure where I put everything.

 

Thank you! I am definitely going to put my information in the spread sheet. I don't have much at the moment because I just started home testing. He does very well with it though!

 

Thank you! I added in my numbers so far. I will test Toes again this evening before I feed him tonight. I'm just very overwhelmed again with all of this but I want to do the best for him.

 

You are doing a great job getting Toe sorted out and safe. There is a lot to learn in the beginning.
I would recommend, because you have reduced the dose of insulin, that you test for ketones in the urine. You need to buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy. Collect a urine sample from Toe and dip the test strip into the urine and check it against the colours on the side of the bottle exactly 15 seconds later. Anything above a trace needs vet attention. Record the result on the spreadsheet in the remarks column.

 

Baby steps Nicole. Progress is made in baby steps.

For such a drastic reduction in the dose to only 1U and a skipped dose last night, Toes really did not bounce high at all for the middle of the insulin cycle. That's good!

As you gain experience with testing, and gather more data, that decision point threshold can and will be lowered.

If you are not sure of what to do, please post here on the Feline Health forum for help. Even someone that does not know prozinc well should be able to guide you with a decision on giving the dose or skipping. For now, I'd suggest skipping the dose if Toes BG level is < 178 to 200 mg/dL. With the food change to a lower carb food, it would be safer to stay nearer 200. (or above)

We have a saying here. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a cycle."

Unfortunately, I'm usually only able to be here on the message board later in the evenings, east coast US time. But I'll try to check out your thread when I get the chance.

Do please review that Sticky PROZINC DOSING METHODS thread. There are a number of other documents (threads) that are sticky or pinned posts over in the Prozinc ISG group also. Don't try to read all of them at once. You'll REALLY be overwhelmed with all that information. Print out what you would like to review, and read the documents as you have time.

 

I know, I'm trying not to do anything drastic but it seems like it kind of is already.. So tonight I am giving him his normal gravy wet food, his PMPS glucose was 240. I was told not to switch him completely to just low carb just yet. So do I follow my my vets instructions and give his "normal" 4.5u tonight? This is what I'm confused about. Because I haven't seen his numbers until now, that dose seems way too high to be giving.. I just don't know what to do anymore

 

See if @Deb & Wink answers you re the dose.
If she doesn’t answer, I think I would stick with the 1 unit until you get more data. Test during the cycle as well..try and get a test in during the first half of the cycle at least so we can see how he is doing on the 1 unit.
But make sure you are testing the urine for ketones now that you have dropped the dose.....this is important.

 

In my opinion? Absolutely not. That 4.5U dose is way too high for Toes.

If I were you, I'd stick to the 1U dose you gave this morning. If that amount of insulin is not enough, which we won't know for several days, then you can increase the dose. Slowly.

For now, I think you need to keep that reduced 1U dose for at LEAST 6 cycles, until Toes clears the bounce. Maybe longer.

Get more familiar with testing. Get some experience under your belt. Get Toes comfortable with the home testing routine.
Once the insulin is in, you can't take it back out.
Don't think you want to deal with a hypoglycemic episode right now.
Please, put together your hypo toolkit first. That will be just in case Toes drops really low. But better to be prepared before you need that hypo toolkit. Don't forget to include a treat for yourself. Chocolate is highly recommended!

p.s. Bron and I cross posted. Meaning we posted at the same time.

 

So I should test him again tonight? Should I do multiple times or just once more? I will have to pick up some ketone strips tomorrow. I will start checking that. Is that a once a day thing? So many questions... sorry!

 

Ok. I will give him the 1u for tonight
Should I test him before I go to sleep tonight as well? Thank you so much for all the help. I greatly appreciate it!!!!

 

The only bad question is the one you do not ask.

Yes, you test Toe before every insulin shot. Then again later in each cycle.
For the evening, it's good to try for a test after the pre-shot and before you head off to sleep. We call that the "before bed" test.

Once a day ketone test would be fine. Tips for you on catching a urine sample.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

 

With my work schedule, I won't be able to test him later in the evenings "before bed". My schedule is 645pm-7am with a 40min drive to and from work. My boyfriend is comfortable giving his insulin, but he already said he will not test his glucose. I told him about pulling his food 2 hours before I get home. He does wake up early for work. I can get up midday to get a reading and then go back to sleep. Then get a PMPS before I leave again for work.

 

Haven't had the chance to test for ketones yet, I bought the strips this morning... He was going towards the litter box and I tried to be sneaky but I think he saw me and walked away.. Taking a nap before work tonight, but hopefully I can get a reading before I leave... It is hard to watch him because we have 3 litter boxes in the house.. One tough kitteh!!! I also updated his spreadsheet today. I will be checking him once more before I leave for work tonight. Hope everyone is staying warm and had a great day!

 

Nicole, you do the best you can. From what I can see, you are doing exactly that so kudos to you.

FYI We want to keep all recommendations public, so other people can see what is going on. Violation of the terms of service here to give recommendations privately. I don't think too many people read through all that, and just want help for their cat. No worries here is what I'm saying.

Here is what you asked me:
"So, since yesterday I have just given Toe's 1u BID with his #'s running in the 200's. I just had a question.. Is that too drastic of a drop in the dosage since he was getting 4.5u BID and would it be better to just give half of his "prescribed" dose? I don't want the vet to get upset with what I am doing. I plan on showing her my spreadsheet next Thursday at my appointment. But I don't want her to get mad about me changing his dose by myself.. I am just scared and overwhelmed.... I have been giving him the higher carb food for one of his 2 feedings, but with his numbers in the high 200's, is it better to give the lower pate twice a day? I won't be able to test him as much the next 5 days because I work 7pm-7am with a 40min drive to and from work.. that leaves me at home from 8am-530pm every time I work. My boyfriend knows how to give him his insulin shots, but straight up told me he is not comfortable testing him and won't do it.. I am just at a loss. I am also scared I won't be able to get a ketone test on him once a day with having to work now.

I really do appreaciate all the help and guidance everyone has given me thus far.

Thank you! and hopefully that all makes sense!!"

 

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize. Thanks for letting me know!

 

No worries Nicole. Here is more of what I wanted to say in response to what you had asked me.

Those are pretty darn good BG numbers for today 2/12/21. Low blues are excellent. I'd let your vet get mad at you if that is what it takes to keep Toes safe.

The pre-shot tests are usually the last BG numbers to come back down. Which is why getting some mid-cycle tests is key. I realize that is going to be very difficult for you to do with your job. So like I said, do the best you can.

You might consider a +11 or a +10 for the AM cycle, on those days you are headed off to work nights. Yes, we understand about significant others not being willing or able to test. So you work around that fact in different ways, whenever you can.

I do NOT think the reduction from 4.5U to 1U was too drastic a drop in the dosage amount for Toes. He may need his dose to be increased later. But we'll come to that bridge when we come to it. No use "counting your chickens before they are hatched."

I'm betting with your job as a respiratory therapist that you are in really high demand these days. Sending hugs to you and hoping you know how essential you are to all those YOU help.

 

Forgot to answer the question about the food.

I'd continue to give Toes the higher carb food for now, along with the low carb food as snacks. Eventually, if you can move to all low carb food, that is likely to bring Toes BG levels down even more. But let's keep him safe for now, and continue to feed him some of the higher carb food.

p.s. We've thrown an awful lot of information your way. When you have time, going back and reviewing what has been said, and looking at some of those "Sticky" pinned posts from over in the Prozinc ISG would be good.

 

Thank you! I was happy with those numbers as well! His numbers might be a bit off the next few days because he is a mammas boy lol. And he can be stubborn when my bf tries to feed him sometimes. So hopefully things will go well! Should I consider his last BS before I leave for work at almost 6pm as his PMPS? That would be his last check for the night until I get home at 8am the next morning.

And work is definitely more stressful these days! Thanks so much, I appreciate it!

 

Yes, I would consider that last BG test before you head off to work as the equivalent of your PMPS. Not ideal, but it's what you are able to do.
I'd still record that last test in the correct + column on the SS, before the actual PMPS column on the SS. So if that is 9 hours after Toe's morning insulin shot, then record that test in the +9 column on the left most side (the AMPS side) of the SS. If it's more like 10 hours, then please put it in the +10 column.

A note over in the Remarks column, that indicates that is the only test possible would be helpful, to other people looking at the SS and wondering why there are no tests for the PMPS cycle. Just a simple note that you are working in the PM, away for 12-14 hours or so.

Eventually you'll need to transition Toe to all low carb wet food. But I'd wait to do that until you are home for a few days and can test.

 

I fixed my spreadsheet to reflect the last test beforeI leave for work. I just put "work 7p-7a" in the PMPS column. He has been getting a mixture of the low carb and high carb. The other night I had him fed half pate/half gravy.

 

That seems fine to me. Stands out really well, and shows anyone else not familiar with you and Toe that you are not there to test and the reason why.

 

Having a really hard time right now... I'm tired and just want to cry... Not liking his high numbers

 

Try not to lose heart, Nicole. If it's any small comfort to you, we've seen cats here running much higher. You've got a very tough schedule and the tiredness doesn't do one's mood any favours. Hang in there, and have some of these:




Mogs
.

 

Then go right ahead sweetie. We've all been there.

Do something fun for yourself, or have a special treat. Do something you love, even if it's vegging out with an old movie on the tv as you fall asleep. Yoga with Adrienne is one of my go to's. Relaxing and decompressing and letting go of the stresses of the day. Here is a nice 7 minute "Bedtime" yoga routine.


"Always find time for the things that make you feel happy to be alive."

 

Thanks Deb! I really appreciate it. I just think it was from his numbers creeping up, having to work this long stretch and lack of sleep.. I just got very exhausted.. I am off for a bunch of days coming up so that should help a bit.. Toes snuggled on my chest today which really comforted me. He usually does this, but the past few days he has been sleeping at the foot of the bed. I think I was just worrying about him. I still haven't had the chance to test his ketones yet.. But I will still try, especially being off a bit.

 

Thank you! Lack of sleep and stressing about his numbers really did me in... I am off a bit, so hopefully I can be more at ease with everything! Testing is very stressful when I have to work the hours I do.. I definately need all the hugs! <3

 

I'm glad you've got some bit of a break coming up, Nicole, and I hope it does you good. Glad to hear you had snuggles with your boy. (((Toes)))

Aw g'wan, have a few more!




Mogs
.

 

Kitty hugs are the best!

 

Will be doing my all day curve today. I've been giving 1.25u bid. Now that I am off work, his numbers seem to be trending down

 

Hey Nicole, if you see this in time, could you get a +3 today too please? I'm not seeing a food bump from this mornings LC food and he's dropping a little quick for a +2, nothing alarming but we should still be cautious since we don't have a whole lot of data yet. Want to make sure he doesn't start dropping any faster because the insulin is just starting to kick in.

 

I can get one right now..

 

He is a grazer too so he's been eating food here and there the past few hours.

 

@Shelley & Jess I just got it and it's 104.. I wanted to do the all day today bc of his numbers yesterday. I even fed him a higher carb food yesterday evening and gave him a gravy lovers as a snack before I went to bed bc he dropped down alot lower..

 

Little fast now. Do you have any MC food? Just a bit, a teaspoon for now and test again in 30 minutes.

 

What would be considered MC? I do have alot of gravy kinds, grilled with gravy, prime filets, gravy lovers...

 

I you don't have MC - mix LC with HC.

 

Cross post - mix some gravy with his LC food to get MC. Not too much food though.

 

He is eating that right now. So 30mins from now test again?

 

Yes please.

This is what concerns me. You fed higher carb for dinner and he still went green last night.

 

I know. It made me a little nervous, that's why I fed him the gravy lovers. It's weird because he was runnig so much higher the past few days and now this.. Maybe he needs to be back down to the 1u instead of 1.25... maybe he gets a bit stressed when I have to work.. I don't know..

 

You got this! We'll figure it out.

 

Thank you! Now I'm getting all nervous.. This is a tad stressful

 

I'll stay with you. Let's see what the MC does. You're ahead of it right now and we're just trying to slow him down before it gets stressful! You're in control. Get the tests and we'll see where he's headed.

Yes, your right, back down to 1U for the next shot if he's high enough to shoot. We'll talk about dosing in a bit so you can concentrate on the numbers right now.

 

@Shelley & Jess Just tested and he was 105 still

 

The drop has stopped. No more food for now please, let's see if he can hold it without more food. I'd test again in 30 minutes to see if he's holding, dropping or on the rise. We've still got a couple hours to go until the expected nadir for most cats using Prozinc - around the +6 mark.

 

Ok, I will put his food up. Thank you so much for the guidance! Will retest at 1pm.

 

125 for his +5

 

Looks like the MC is doing the trick and/or he's heading for a bounce. I'm surprised we didn't see higher bounce numbers this morning from the quick drop to green last night and feeding gravy lovers.

Last night you fed a higher carb for dinner (Not sure if the flavor was MC or HC). He had a really good food bump and then dropped quick to green. With only feeding LC for breakfast this morning and starting out at around the same PS as last night had me concerned.

I like to slow the fast drops and head off any trouble before they become a problem.

 

I fed him Friskies Beef/salmon prime filets last night. He does like those better than the pate's. So if he is under 200, should I feed him MC instead of LC? I'm still kind of new with trying to switch him mainly to LC. I can always mix some gravy into the pate. And should i test again at +6? I didn't realize how stressed I would get today but you definately helped calm me down!! I greatly appreciate it and want to keep my baby safe <3

 

I'd get a +6. Might tell us if the MC stays with him or is wearing off and/or if he's bouncing now.

I just looked up the carbs. Looks like Beef/Salmon Filets is 15% as compared to FF Turkey & Giblets 2%.

I wouldn't carb him up to shoot insulin - carbs wear off for one thing. But it does look like the lower carb foods are helping bring the BG numbers down.

You're doing the right thing by monitoring closely while transitioning. If he's high enough to shoot >200 and you can monitor I'd go with the 1u and lower carb food. Get an early cycle test and you know you can give him a bit of MC to slow him down if needed.

Have you seen @Deb & Wink +2 write up yet? It has some good information of what to watch for when you get a +2 test.
Why the +2 Test is Important - more detail information for Prozinc users by Deb & Wink

 

There's more good information in the Prozinc dosing sticky on how to handle lower than normal preshots when following the Prozinc SLGS (start low go slow) dosing method.
I'd use this as your guideline if he's <200 at preshot. If you have any questions about any of this let us know.

 

Thank you! I have read it but I will read it over again. I really want to get him in a good place, especially on the nights I have to work (I've been getting scheduled 5-6 nights in a row some weeks). I am gone usually 14 hours and bf is not comfortable testing his BG. Last week I woke up during the day to test him, just to be sure he was ok. I plan on doing this when I go back to work next week.

 

You're welcome

These few days off for you are a good chance to monitor closely while you transition the food (and maybe loose a little sleep ).

We want to keep your baby safe and get him to a good place too - we're here if you need any help!

 

So his PMPS at the +10 mark is 188. Hold insulin or decrease dose?

 

Yes, reduce the dose to 1.0u

He "earned" a dose reduction last night PM cycle 02/18 with that BG of 89.

 

I haven't given him his insulin just yet. He's been being bold with his food this evening. I had to give him something different that is probably on the HC side.

 

Did you get a test before you fed higher carb food?

 

Yes, Toe DEFINITELY needs a dose reduction.

Since you are doing a food change too, I'd drop the dose down even more. Like 0.5U. He's dropping too fast, even when he's getting high carb food.

 

I did not. I was going to test him again now. He only ate a little bit of what I put out for him though

 

I just tested him and he was 305.... ugh... idk what to do...

 

Haven't given insulin yet bc he just ate about 30mins ago

 

Prozinc sequence is test, feed, shoot, all within a short timeframe.
You don't have to wait 30 minutes between food and insulin when using Prozinc. That is for Vetsulin(Caninsulin).

 

is it bad that I gave it 30mins after eating? I only gave 0.5u and plan on testing him soon

 

No, it's not bad that you waited to give Toe the shot until after he ate.

But if you have a limited amount of time, then compressing the window where you do the test/feed/shoot steps can gain you a bit of time. Good to know for the future.

Prozinc usually takes a couple of hours to onset, so a long as your cat eats before then, the BG levels should not drop too fast.
With Vetsulin (Caninsulin), the onset is much faster, so you want to feed about 20-30 minutes before you give the Vetsulin. So the food is already on board and getting digested and has some time to get into the blood stream before the insulin starts to bring the BG numbers down fast.

 

Hello @Deb & Wink and @Shelley & Jess! I know you 2 probably won't see this until tomorrow since it's midnight (EST) right now. I am so confused with Toes numbers today. His AMPS was 255, 1u was given, with an increase at +2 to 308 with LC feed this AM (he did not finish the 1 can of FF salmon pate) But then tonight after he snubbed the FF beef pate, I added half a can of FF beef grilled w gravy and he ate. PMPS was 276, 1u given again this evening, +2 was 165 and then
+5 was 99. I feel like his numbers should have been opposite with feeding kind of MC this evening... I have 3 or 4 more days to test him real good, then I'm nervous bc when I go back to work, my boyfriend won't be home (has to go out of state for the week for work). So I will be back to test/feed/shoot at 530pm. Then no testing until I get home at 8am the next day...

 

Reduce to 0.5u for 02/21 AM cycle and hold this same 0.5u dose for 3 to 6 cycles, unless he shows us he needs another reduction sooner. Do not be tempted to increase the dose if he has a high preshot.

02/20 AM cycle looks like a bit of a bounce, nothing you can do about this but wait for it to clear.
02/20 PM cycle by mixing FF beef pate (3%) carbs with half a can of FF beef grilled w/gravy (12%) you would have fed him LC last night too. Depending how much of the mix he ate even mixing a bit of the 3% with the 12% would bring it under the recommended LC range of less than 8% to 10% carbs.

You are doing a fantastic job getting those tests in! Prozinc doesn't usually start kicking in until +2, so again, last night, like 02/19 AM cycle that fast drop (40%) from PS to +2 is telling us Toes needs less insulin with the food change. For future reference, if you see a drop like this again, but still in safe numbers, please give a snack right away and closely monitor to make sure he doesn't keep dropping too fast.

You have a note on your spreadsheet Toes was begging for dry - many cats will seek out food when they feel their BG levels dropping.

While you are home, available to monitor closely, and trying to transition the food, it's okay to mix a bit of the FF grilled flavors (12% to 15% carbs) with the pate (0% to 3%). It will bump the carb percentage up a bit for the pate while transitioning and hopefully get him used to pate. If you think you can get him to eat the FF Roasted/Flaky/Chunky flavors easier they run between 4% & 6% carbs, nothing wrong with these carb percentages either.

To clarify, during this week you're PM cycles will be 14.5 hours and the AM cycles 9.5 hours between shots? Let's wait for @Deb & Wink for guidance with this.

 

We've thrown so much information at you in such a short time. I scrolled back through this thread and didn't see the food chart link posted. Don't know if you've seen it yet, so I'll post the link here so it's handy for you. This is where I'm getting the carb percentages for the food you are feeding:

Dr. Pierson - new Food Chart

It's from the pinned yellow Info thread Dr. Pierson - new food Chart at the top of the Feline Health (Welcome & Main) Forum.

 

Welcome and good for you for learning to test at home. This is truly critical. ESPECIALLY the preshot testing before you give the insulin. This group will be a huge help. It is overwhelming at first. So much to read and be aware of. I am a newbie, too. I have only been on since December but I am so glad I joined. You would be surprised with some of the advice your vet might give you. Listen to the folks on this site and good luck.

 

I wish I saw sooner to reduce this AM! I gave him 1u with his breakfast (FF cod, shrimpp pate mixed with water, took 20mins for him to start eating, but he did! lol). Around +2 and +4 I will test him again to see where he is at. And great to know what foods have what %carbs. He does like some of the chunky FF, so I will write some down today.

Yes, that is actually how it has been since he was diagnosed, he would eat and get his insulin at 8am, then I would have to feed him and give insulin at 530pm before I left for work. I initially asked the vet if that was ok, because his doses wouldn't be 12hrs apart. The vet said that was perfectly fine. Very glad he never had any serious events during those times.... My boyfriend is usually home, so I would have him feed and give insulin around 630pm, but he does go out of town for work frequently, so noone will be home. I feel like his reduction of his former 4.5u BID is a blessing, and hopefully he will be just fine. But now that I see his BS and how it dips a bit at night will have me worrying about him while I am at work..

 

A +1 test would be a good idea to start with today.

 

About 20-25mins I will grab one! TY

 

This needs to be said......YIKES!!!

 

+1 was 249

 

Okay, no real food bump. 226 & 249 could be considered the same number with meter variance - that 15% variance that hand held glucometers are allowed to have.

Feed a tsp of his LC food and another test at +2 please.

 

Brought him his food and he ate more. 45mins until his +2

 

his +2 was 196. I gave him a few treats after his poke.. So the trending down, does that mean he should have gotten less insulin this AM?

 

Yes.

Let's give him another small tsp of food. I'd like to bump the carbs a bit to the high end of LC. What do you have handy or open right now?

 

What were the treats? The boiled chicken or something else?

 

ok, so I gave him some more of the pate from this morning along with a small scoop of the seafood grilled (12%). And he ate that about 10 mins ago

 

I have CBD treats that I bought for him. I gave him 4 of them. He has gotten them here and there. I have to cook up some more chicken for him, but I would think that wouldn't be much carb intake? I can see if I can post a pic of the cbd treats

 

It won't let me upload anything..

 

Problem with the upload button right now. Problem with uploading files, webmaster is working on it.

 

Try copying to the pic to the clipboard and then pasting it into your reply. (The problem with the Upload a File button is being worked on by the FDBM webmaster.)


Mogs
.

 

sorry it's so big lol