09/16 Shmee AMBG 211

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Amanda & Shmee, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Previous condo

    Good morning,
    Sorry I have been away for a few days. I have just not been dealing with all of this very well... Shmee doesn't seem to be doing any better, except just now he used the scratcher and then climbed his cat tree up to the window perch. I was really surprised and happy. BUT this is currently 8am... He gets his meds / first meal at 6:30am. He did not want to eat this morning. He hasn't been interested in eating the last few mornings, but once I leave him alone with it he will eat it fairly soon. This morning though, I set an alarm for 7:45 to wake me up to check his food. As soon as I got up I noticed he threw up. It was a small amount, and looked like saliva. He has never thrown up. Go to the food, didn't eat. So I threw it away and tried another flavor. Then he ate right away..... I am thinking throwing up made him feel better, the same way it does for us, then he ate ok? I have no idea. This is when he used the scratcher and just went up to the window perch. The Gaba is well out of his system now (630 am/630pm), so I assume that is another reason he felt like climbing up there, since he wasn't totally out of it / sleepy. :( Well in about two hours he's going to be zonked out again since he just ate the Gaba in his food.... which makes me feel terrible. So now this makes me think, how am I supposed to tell if he's any better while he's on medication that zonks him out...? Also, I was going over Dr. McCues texts again from Wednesday evening and when I asked about the pancreatitis he said there wasn't much of a cure.... and he wanted to focus on the thyroid increase because that could help the pancreatitis too, so he said he should be good to stay on the gabapentin and cerenia. Shmee was not on cerenia at that time. I only ever got 4 1/4 pills, this was after his 09/05 vet visit when I was scared because he was in pain. This is when the vet said he can start taking the Gaba for pain too. One of the cerenia pills was a waste since he wouldn't eat it in his food, so he only got three. And then on 09/10 he had his bloodwork appt. My vet said we can try to do away with the Gaba in the morning to see how he feels. That next morning he was very mean, has NEVER been like that, so I kept him on the Gaba. I never even thought about asking for the cerenia again..... Now fast forward to Wednesday evening the 12th when I talked to Dr. McCue, and he mentioned "staying on the Gaba and cerenia" should help him with the pain, while we adjust his hormones. I should have called my vet and asked for more cerenia, or told Dr. McCue right away he wasn't on it anymore to see what he would say. I feel so dumb, I guess I just thought it didn't seem to help the first time, and my vet didn't bring it back up the day he was mean and still needed the Gaba.... so I didn't think of it. Long story short I guess I will be calling my vet and picking some up tomorrow... he refuses to let me give him his Desmopressin shot now too most of the time, so I have to wait until about 2.5 hours into the Gabapentin to attempt it.

    Going over those dates just now really opened my eyes.... This seems like its been FOREVER but it really hasn't. Sometimes I do not like to come on here to explain everything because I just feel like I am complaining a lot, and I know other cats have it way worse. But honestly I am drained, and depressed about this whole situation. It is very hard to deal with, and I am pushing everyone around me away. I have anxiety issues as it is, and this is making me go crazy. I hate drugging him and making him barely able to walk. I hate that he feels like crap and he looks at me like I am dangerous and hardly comes around me anymore. I know it takes patience. As you can see, I have none. It is really hard to just sit around when he shows zero signs of getting better. ALTHOUGH this is why I was so happy when he just used his scratcher and climbed up to the window...… just gave me a little bit of hope. Which leads me to.... Dr. McCue said ideally he would need bloodwork if he isn't feeling any better in 7-10 days after increasing the hormone. 7 days would be Thursday. But how am I supposed to tell he's feeling better if he is always on gabapentin....? The only reason he was feeling "spry" just now was because the Gaba was out of his system. Maybe I should try to move to a half pill every 12 hours starting maybe Tuesday.... no idea.

    Again, sorry if I worried anyone. :( Vines to all kitties in need today, @Ana & Frosty I am always thinking about you.
     
  2. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Amanda I hate that you are going through all this, you and Shmee!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: I have no advice as far as meds, I’ve never used those but I wanted to say we all know your not complaining, that’s what we are here for...support! When I’m down and anxious this is where I come because all of us have been there for 1 or another, we are all here for 1 another, I pray things get better for you guys:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  3. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Climbing up to the window must've been nice to see, one day at a time :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  4. Amanda and a Loudogg

    Amanda and a Loudogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Sending you and Shmee lots of love and healing vines. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  5. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    That vomit you saw this morning could have been from having an empty stomach. I wouldn't worry too much about that one. If he ate when you fed him, that's great.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  6. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
  7. Beck and Grandpa

    Beck and Grandpa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Hugs!!! I know exactly how you feel! Some days it seems too much, but then I see those eyes and I know I can find it in me to try another day.

    ECID and I am in no way saying that it would work for Shmee, but last week I found myself adding more and more things that might help Grandpa's pancreatitis. It wasn't helping. The buprenorphine seemed to zonk him out. Lantus was taking him really low despite lower doses. We decided to go back to basics and cut out everything he didn't absolutely need. We gave him a Convenia shot and kept the Cerenia and stopped everything else. He was ready to eat after a day-and-a- half.

    Again, I'm not advising the same exact approach. Grandpa has cancer that does odd things. I am just mentioning that it might help to see what can be simplified temporarily to see if something intended to help may be messing with his system.
     
  8. Pamela & Amethyst

    Pamela & Amethyst Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
  9. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    These are tough recovery times for Shmee. It is always challenging to deal with deep health kitteh health issues. I think you are doing a good job, and I don't think you have pushed any of us away.

    The surgery was effectively brain surgery. That is traumatic. Plus Shmee's hormones have changed as a result. It will just take some time to adjust. It is unfortunate that he has become a bit mean. Maybe since he is no longer diabetic you can stock up on favorite treats. Leo's favorite is freeze dried chicken (which we could probably make).

    Thinking of you. So is Theresa. She asks me every day about Shmee's progress.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  10. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    :bighug:❤️:bighug:❤️:bighug:Sending much love and many prayers , that Shmee heals fully and your heart has peace. You are a wonderful momma bean:bighug:
     
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  11. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Just my opinion here. Shmee was using scratcher and climbing before his gab dose?

    How about trying 1/2 dose for the AM leave the other doses as they are. If you see he needs it give other half in 6 hrs. You can also cut each dose in half and give every 6hrs. He sounds as if he is ready to start tapering down slowly.

    Olive hasn't been through this surgery so obviously I have nothing to go on. I know that vets and doctors say how much and how often to take meds. Based on manufacturers. As a nurse, every one absorbs meds differently. Everyone has different thresholds. Shmee might just need some tweaking to find his best comfort level.I

    I put myself in the situation and what would I do if it was me. I had carpal tunnel surgery. I was in so much pain before the sugery, that after it was nothing. Never took any pain med after. I was back to work as a staff nurse in 10 days. Co worker had it after she saw how well it worked for me. However, she was in agony and out for over 6 weeks. Now with dental pain I'm the biggest wimp there is.

    My point is maybe Shmee is ready for a wee bit less gab. Sometimes being over medicated makes you feel worse. Something to ponder.
     
  12. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Good to hear from you Amanda, even if it's "to complain". We worry about our internet adopted furries and their beans. :bighug: The people here are amazing, they have helped me and many others with ideas that might work when things seem darkest. I was happy to hear about some normal cat behaviours from Shmee today. :)

    I tried gaba for two weeks with Neko, it just zonked her out. Even tried a smaller dose, no luck. So buprenorphine was the pain drug of choice. I think the pain med that work is also ECID. Since bupe is liquid, it's easier to fine tune the dose, and yes, most vet's start you on a higher dose than needed. There is a range if dose based on body weight.

    Cerenia has some anti inflammatory properties as well as helping nausea. Maybe that's why Dr McCue thought it would be good. P'titis is usually treated with pain meds, anti nausea meds and sometimes fluids. if you are going for bloodwork, you might ask if they could do a B12 test. I have heard that some kitties with pancreatitis seem to do better with B12 supplementation, if needed.

    What size needles are you using for the steroid shot? Just wondering if smaller gauge needles might help. When Neko got her dual heart/lymphoma diagnosis at the same time, I had a lot of new meds and side effects to do with. I had to tweak how I gave them, what format (went to liquid compounded for some). If some meds are hard to give, ask the vet if there is an alternative format. Compounded chicken flavour pred treats have been a saviour here. Chicken flavour bupe was easier for Neko, but she preferred the chicken soup flavour to the roast chicken one. :rolleyes::cat:

    Hang in there Amanda, the first few weeks of new routine are the hardest. He's being a good hoy given all the changes happening to him. It WILL get better. Hugs.
     
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  13. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Thank you everyone, it helps a lot.
    I think I am going to take Paulas suggestion and start with a half a Gab tomorrow AM.
    I am using the same syringes as his insulin :/ Which is why I was thinking it might sting? Because he never had an issue with the insulin. He cats like its hurting him.
    I am calling the vet in the morning to get more cerenia as well.
    At 5pm (about 9 hours after the Gaba) he's back up at the window perch... so I definitely want to try to reduce it if I can. Last time I tried this he didn't feel good so it makes me nervous, but now that he has had the increased thyroid hormone hopefully he can stand to decrease the gaba a little.
     
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  14. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Amanda, I have been reading all the posts about Shmee, and hope that all is going to resolve and ease your aching worried heart.
    I have had a lot of knee surgeries, and if I may offer an insight, surgery, any surgery is like an assault on the body. Even with pain meds etc, it just puts you out of kilter. Plus little Shmee is dealing with some hormone changes. It hasn't been very long since his surgery, it was a long trip there, a bit of a stay in unfamiliar surroundings, the surgery and aftermath, and a long trip home. I think I would be riding around on my broom about now (or worse)..how bout you? Anyway, I will keep reading, and hoping for you, DH and dear Shmee. Many hugs and loves.
     
  15. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Its worth a try. You can just go back if it doesnt work. Maybe before it was to soon to reduce.

    Olive does better on 8 hr dosing with gab but she didnt have surgery like Shmee. His throat, sinus, head must hurt like hell then add the hormone changes, you got a major unbalanced kitty on your hands yet.
     
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  16. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I have to agree esp having no luck using gabapentin. Buprenorphine has become my absolute best choice for pain meds. It’s fine if you want to cut the dose in half. My question is....when it’s been a long time between doses of pain meds, do you think he is in pain and even needs it now? Cats are pretty resilient.

    My kitten had to have nasal surgery when she was spayed and one would think she would need some major pain meds. Granted, she was a kitten and they do bounce back but the nasal surgery was something the vets felt she would really need several days of pain meds for. But she didn’t. They gave her too much the day of her surgery and she was wired for 24 hours so I waited another 12 before I gave her a tiny dose (that was day two). Day three, I gave her another tiny dose and she was feeling great by day four so I gave her none and she was a busy, happy kitten.

    I’m just wondering if Shmee even needs it now? Only you know.

    Sending tons of hugs and vines.
     
  17. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Yes I think so, I have a feeling that's why he hasn't been interested in eating in the morning. And most recently, his PM meal tonight. He gets the gaba the same time as his AM and PM meals, so I think by the time it comes around every 12 hours he is not feeling well, and takes a while to eat. Tonight he sniffed it and looked at me and meowed really sad before walking away :( He was also getting mad when I tried to bring it over to him and touch him. He was never ever mean to me before this so it makes me think he is in pain.
     
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  18. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
  19. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Sniffing and walking away could be nausea. I would try Cerenia or ondansetron, I liked ondansetron, even though you have to give it more often, cause it is supposed to be tasteless and can be given in pill pockets.
     
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  20. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Shmee is climbing up onto the window and using his scratcher. As others have said, this is a good sign that he is recovering from the trauma of his surgery. Keep on climbing and jumping, Shmee! Your aunties and uncles are proud of you.

    Lots of hugs for you, Amanda. Think positively!
     
  21. Cynthia and Merlin

    Cynthia and Merlin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Gosh you are dealing with sooo much. I feel for you Amanda. You are making every decision in his best interest so please try not to beat yourself up too much. I know it’s hard because the way you feel, hour by hour, sometimes minute by minute, all depends on how he feels at that same time. Keep posting, asking questions, and getting really good eyes on his situation so experienced others can tell you what they’ve learned. We are all here for you and I know I look for your posts every day. The only thing I can offer is to ask your vet for a script for Cerenia and order from Allivet. So much cheaper and you’ll have it on hand. Merlin needed it every day, just 1/2
    pill. It helped him not to vomit bile in the middle of the night. It made a huge difference and his vet and IM were fine with a daily dose. I ground it up in a tsp of baby food. Shmee WILL get better. We are all willing it to. xx
     
  22. Jill & Scooter

    Jill & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Sorry Shmee is having such a difficult recovery! Prayers he feels better soon!
     
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  23. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Sending you both Healing energy & Loving thoughts. :):bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  24. Phoebes

    Phoebes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    For you :bighug::bighug::bighug: head bumps and scritches for Shmee. You both have been thru a huge ordeal. Give him space. He might feel your anxiety. He's still a cat. Doing cat things as you say. He will come around. I had to reduce Phoebes gaba as well. It's whatever works. If he's really sensitive you could give him a 1/3. Or 1/4. Hang in there hunny. We are all rooting for you both. I find myself hovering over Phoebe and then she doesn't sleep because she's wondering what is up. So I have to tell myself, yes she's sleeping alot, she's a cat. She doesn't play anymore but she gets up on bathroom sink to help me :rolleyes: brush my teeth.
     
  25. Beck and Grandpa

    Beck and Grandpa Member

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    Jun 4, 2018
    Does gaba decrease appetite as bupe does?
     
  26. Phoebes

    Phoebes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    It didn't effect Phoebe in that way.
     
  27. John Irene and TITAN

    John Irene and TITAN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2018
    Good to hear from you again. I would try a reduction in pain medication. I know ecid but titan hasn't been on any pain medication since he came away from RVC.
     
  28. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  29. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    :bighug:

    I would give Cerenia and Ondan daily for at least a week. I also recommend you give via capsules vs. in the food. It took us about 3 days to get the capsule routine down but now it is really no big deal. It is also nice that you can put all the pills in one cap and give it once and be done.

    You want #4 or #5 size.
    http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/gelatin-capsules.html
     
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