1. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Last post

    Hello,

    Shmee is back to being extremely hungry. I am going to assume its the Bupe now, because after talking to Dr. McCue yesterday I gave him the Bupe cream at noon and at 6pm. He acted extremely hungry except didn't want to eat still a few times. This morning he is all in - staring at me again all morning and waiting for me to feed him. I have a full box of Cerenia but I think I am going to ask Dr. McCue again if we can try ondansetron instead. Because even though hes eating, I can tell its because of the Bupe. Even on the Bupe acting extremely hungry he didn't want to eat sometimes, so I think the nausea is still there. I hate giving him the Bupe now because its like hes not even living, hes living just to eat. He literally doesn't move from sitting behind me until he eats. I tried .10 yesterday (my vet suggested .15) so maybe I will go down to .05 today and see if that helps. But what is so confusing is he was still extremely hungry days after I stopped the Bupe last time.... so I really don't know if its the cause but it seems like it has to be. I asked my vet if it was possible for it to stay in his system days after and she said it shouldn't stay longer than 12 hours. Maybe his body is just very affected by it... Its so hard to figure out how often I should give it to him. I don't want to make him starving every day but I don't want him to be in pain. After I get the ondansetron maybe I will be able to get a better gauge of how much Bupe he needs / try to tackle one thing at a time. If that makes sense.

    My heart is with Ana & Frosty this morning :bighug:
     
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  2. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko @Phoebes
    Does the ondansetron have anti inflammatory properties? If I am remembering correctly I think that was part of Dr. McCues reason to keep him on the cerenia. Doesn't he need an anti-inflammatory for the pancreatitis?

    PS I saved that article you posted Wendy, its so long I need to make time to go over it :/
     
  3. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Cerenia and zofran work very well together. Have you tried gabapentin instead of bupre?
     
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  4. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Yes he started off with Gabapentin, but it didn't seem to help pain wise and was just making him extremely sleepy and lethargic. Then he got a Bupe shot and he was a new cat, the pain seemed like it went away so it worked well. That is when I ordered the ear gel to try, because I really didn't want to have to give him the shot every three days or the liquid in his mouth several times a day after all he's went through, and for my sanity! If he continues to be in a bad mood and irritable after adding or switching to the Zofran, then I would consider getting the liquid form of Bupe.
     
  5. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
  6. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    No it doesn’t have anti inflammatory properties. Max was treated mostly with ondansetron for nausea and nothing else. Occasionally I gave him a little bupe if he had a bad flare. There’s no reason to switch if cerenia is working which it is so honestly I wouldn’t stress over it.
     
  7. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I too have been given bupe for Jones as the u/s yesterday showed some major inflammation of the pancreas. I noticed that it was so much that he was willing to eat but he seemed more comfy in his body. It was pre-loaded at .07 in the syringe.

    Hope you find that magic recipe for making him feel good and eating while still being Shmee.
     
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  8. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  9. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Ondansetron and Cerenia target different nausea receptors. But like Elise said, if Cerenia is working, keep using it. Consider ondansetron if it isn't.

    You might have to tinker with the timing as well as the amount of bupe given. I gave every 12 hours, for some every 8 hours but a lesser amount works better. Good luck finding the magic formula.:bighug:

    Prednisolone can increase hunger.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  10. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    I really think the only reason he is eating / super hungry is because of the bupe and now that Wendy mentions it the pred. too. Dr. McCue did mention that on a previous conversation, I wonder why he didn't mention it this time .. odd. That does seem to make sense though, I will have to check his SS to see if it correlates. So even with the extreme hunger, I could tell he was nauseas yesterday (and the last few days). He would run like a lightning bolt to the bowl but then not eat. This is after three days of Cerenia (this time), which is why I asked Dr. McCue if we can try the Zofran. He said yes we can try, so my vet is looking into dosing now. My vet also said its very odd that Bupe would make him hungry. She pretty much said she has never seen it before. Which makes me worry that he isn't getting the nutrients he is eating so hes still eating (like in diabetics). I said this to my vet last time and she brushed it off. Well she must have looked it up or remembered some other things that may be going on. She gave me a list pretty much... doing a panel specific for 2 vitamins to see if he is digesting nutrients, EPI where the body isn't making pancreatic enzymes, IBD, intestinal diseases.... but all of those she said are mostly if they are losing weight. I really thought Shmee was going up and down in weight with my scale but they are not taking those weights into account, so by the vets scale he is not losing weight. I got my baby scale in the mail and need to go out to buy a 9V battery for it so they will listen to whatever weight I have written down. She also said I should not be feeding him more than what I would normally... which makes sense I guess so we can really tell if he is losing weight. He has eaten A LOT today, so I guess that plan will have to wait until tomorrow.

    Oh yes we also tried to go off desmopressin again today, didn't work, very thirsty. :/
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  11. Phoebes

    Phoebes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Ondansetron doesn't have the anti-inflammatory that cerenia does. At least that's what my vet said. Phoebe also takes the gabapentin. She was sleepy in beginning but came out of it about a week. It's so hard to figure what works and what doesn't. I hope you will find a happy medium soon. If cerenia works use it, I just thought you said he was still nauseated or acting like it on cerenia. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  12. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Did you ask Dr McCue about CBD oil?
     
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  13. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Yes I forgot to ask him on the phone so I texted him after the call, and he said "its hard to recommend in this situation" :/
     
  14. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    hmmm
     
  15. sbluhrs

    sbluhrs Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    I can totally understand your frustrations, Amanda. Sophie is having her own issues. Still not totally off of insulin, even though she is at a low level. Had our 10 day post op vet check and blood draws recently and her white blood cells were up, showing an infection, which explains why. She also has the low cortisol level, like Shmee, so we doubled her steroid pill amount. Thankfully, no real pain, and excellent appetite, except for 1 day 2 weeks ago when she was having her usual issue with loose stools that comes after antibiotics. After we added an antifungal (generic Flagyl), and more probiotics, that got better, but then got worse with the antibiotics. Now she gets both the pro-biotic and some psyllium fiber with each meal and her poo is firming up. Still on desmo also, but that level hasn't been changed. I figure it will take until she gets off the extra meds before her body deals with that sort of thing. Hopefully the desmo and insulin won't also be a life long thing. This first couple of months after the surgery is definitely a real challenge.

    I'm just lucky that she is young and doesn't really have any other problems.

    Hope everything settles down for Shmee and you.
     
  16. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    The pred made Leo regain his hunger last year. Now he is also on Bupe, and his hunger is very good. So no complaints. I would say if Shmee is eating well, then that is something to be happy about.

    Glad to hear that Sophie is also doing pretty well after the surgery. Our poor Acro kittehs. They go thru so much.
     
  17. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    It is good that he is hungry but... he is not just hungry. He is EXTREMELY hungry. Something is wrong, I cannot let him be like this for the rest of his life so I hope we figure it out. He waits by me to get up and feed him, all day. He meows in hunger whenever we go into the kitchen, and jumps up and tries to eat my food when I'm eating, it feels like I'm torturing him. It seems like he's not getting the nutrients from what he's eating or something. I hope it is the pred and I hope he eventually gets used to it? It is so frustrating. Per both vets I am not to overfeed him, and Dr. McCue wants me to weigh him daily to be sure he's not losing weight. The desmopressin powder didn't work very well, but worked a little, so he wants me to measure his water intake everyday now too. I am highly considering trying CBD oil for pain and inflammation of his pancreas. If there is a chance I don't have to give him the opioid I would like to try, but I am hesitant because his liver values are getting higher (probably due to the inflammation of the pancreas) and I have read that it could have an effect on the liver. But it is supposed to help greatly with inflammation which is what he needs for the pancreas... Its maddening the US isn't allowed to do studies, so its hard to find the international ones, but I need to find some to see if there is truly a correlation between damage to the liver and CBD. There are SO many stories of this helping pets with so many different ailments. I have too much going on right now, I wish so bad I didn't start this business yet
     
  18. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    This study is interesting, it concludes Cannabidiol restored liver function. The studies are few and far between and are hard to understand the jargin, but this one seems pretty clear I guess.
    And in studies conducted on mice suffering from liver failure, CBD helped by restoring their liver function more efficiently than traditional treatments.
    https://thehempoilbenefits.com/cbd-liver-disease - studies at the bottom

    I don't want to make him more hungry than he already is though, and CBD can sometimes increase appetite. Ugh. Its a double edge sword. @Bronx's dad
     
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  19. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Hi Amanda... Baby was diagnosed with IBD a few months ago. After exhausting all options my vet was adamant about a steroid. She had continually gone down in weight. Now I know this is given for a different ailment, but I wanted to share her actions when I first began the budesonide. I really thought she was going to eat me out of house & home and the litter box was a constant chore. She also didn’t sleep much for the first few days; all of this is typical in humans too. After about 3 weeks, her hunger has diminished some & she is acting more like her old self. She has also gained some weight back. I don’t know how long Shmee has been on the steroid but thought I might share this. My vet also said that most cats metabolize medications the same... but there’s some that are slower. Best wishes & I’m hoping Shmee gets back to his ole self soon! You are a great kitty momma!!
     
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  20. Amanda & Shmee

    Amanda & Shmee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Thank you for sharing. Both doctors don't want me to overfeed him, to see if he's losing weight, and it feels I'm torturing him! I just started to make an extra tab on my SS to try and keep up with everything. He has been on the Pred since his surgery 08/28, and has gone up and down in dose. It seems more and more like the extreme hunger is correlating with the increases in Pred. At first I was convinced it was the Bupe, because we gave him the shot the same time he increased his Pred. I don't know why his neurosurgeon wouldn't bring that up though on our last call, that this could be a possibility... I do think I remember him saying in one time in the past though. I will definitely be bringing it up again next time we talk.

    I really appreciate you sharing your experience, it gives me hope that it is just the steroid and he will be ok... I hope it is, and he gets used to it eventually.
     

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