28 Aug | Girlie | AMPS 722; +1=668; +2=652; +5=295; PMPS 371

[Girlie's mom]

Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/27-aug-girlie-amps-625-4-347-7-239-pmps-243-uti.182975/

Bounce last night:
PMPS 243
+2=589
+4=691
+6=HI

Today: back in black again but a 50 point drop by +1. Going to acupuncture at her +3. If she follows yesterday's pattern, she'll probably do a big dive again by the middle of the day. Not sure how to help her with that as it's only a dive to yellows, but then last night, she bounced up into really high blacks.... I've got three days (including today) and then have to be at work on the fourth day during her diving time...

Thanks to all for support: she's wee'ing again and being very democratic and giving each LB their due... Three choices as trying to find one that a) will not affect her asthma; b) be ok for mom as well. Will ask acupuncture vet re: test for UTI, but as she's not showing any sign other than the LB dilemma, perhaps that's what it is...

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I think you are getting the black numbers because Girlie is still dropping fast and triggering bounces.
It doesn't matter if she drops in the blacks, reds, yellows or blues.......if she drops over a 100 points in an hour she is most likely going to bounce. If you look the last three days she has dropped 100 points or more an hour early in each of the am cycles.

 

[Girlie's mom]

True, Bron, true. She's going for food now like I rarely see, but her BG haven't shown a drop; perhaps she's in the process right now. I'll take some food to acupuncture with me, perhaps? Sigh...

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

True, Bron, true. She's going for food now like I rarely see, but her BG haven't shown a drop; perhaps she's in the process right now. I'll take some food to acupuncture with me, perhaps? Sigh...

Yes, good idea. I used to take food with me if I thought Sheba was going to drop and I had a vet appt....

 

[Girlie's mom]

Vet said her bladder wasn't showing signs of discomfort and distress and without any other signs of UTI, we decided to wait. I'll be seeing her in a week for another acupuncture anyway. Also got Zydax injection for arthritis.

Gave 1 tsp MC (13) food just to try to stop this dive of 357 points since AM +2 in its tracks, but probably too late. Mixed 1/2 LC and 1/2 MC to make LC 7 this AM, but might need a mix closer to 10 instead while she's doing these big dives? Or proactively give her a tsp of MC (13) at +2 to try to head this off? Hard to be a diabetic cat and hard to be her mom today...sigh... Sorry! Feeling tired today and wondering if we'll ever get there...

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Wow, a very steep dive. You could try straight MC next time when you think she will dive. Have you seen any patterns yet?

 

[Girlie's mom]

Wow, a very steep dive. You could try straight MC next time when you think she will dive. Have you seen any patterns yet?

She did this yesterday, too. I know by now that very LC (under 5) aren't enough for her: she'll dive. So I mix the LC with MC to try to get something between 7 - 9. I think, though, that today will probably follow a repeat of yesterday, with her having nice yellows and then - post PM shot - she'll bounce straight up to high blacks and stay there until morning - and then do a tremendous leap off the diving board.

She's licking the bowl clean and looking for more, which she only does when she's diving or about to dive, so I've given her another tsp of MC (13) food. Maybe I should try a higher MC food tomorrow - something at 14 - 16? - to try to head her off before AM+3 dive?

One pattern I see is that she'll often get her lowest reading - and dive - at +3, which is why I usually check her at +1 to see if she's starting to dive. She can also have low points at +7. She seems to save her diving for the daytime; I don't usually see those huge dives after her PM shots, but I'm not always able to get a +4.

What do you think?

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

All what you said above sounds right. I'm wondering why she's bouncing so hard now when she was staying in blues and greens most of the time last time she was on 0.75u. But we're talking about cats here...

At least she stays safe at night when you sleep.

I think you need to experiment to find the best thing to do during the dives.

 

[Girlie's mom]

All what you said above sounds right. I'm wondering why she's bouncing so hard now when she was staying in blues and greens most of the time last time she was on 0.75u. But we're talking about cats here...

At least she stays safe at night when you sleep.

I think you need to experiment to find the best thing to do during the dives.

Yeah, I'm not sure why she's bouncing so hard right now, either. It's a new vial of insulin, and even though I left it out at room temperature by accident two days ago on 26 August, it's clear that the insulin is working. She's a diver, and she dives deep. She's done this before pretty consistently when I look back over her SS, especially when she starts in black.

The reduction to 0.5 on 22 Aug (thought after some dives to low greens that warranted it) seems to have triggered this mad bounce. I thought on 24 Aug (when I had to be at work and fed MC and left HC food) that this recent bounce was because of the food; I didn't know that a MC or HC food bounce would be short-lived.

Oh well! It's all a learning curve. Boy, is she getting tired of being tested, though, and I don't blame her, poor little thing...

What I'm debating now (when all of you should be happily asleep!) is whether there's something I can do with food tonight to head off the blacks that are her curse through the night and early morning to try to stave off a deep dive during the day tomorrow again, or if I should just try to head that dive off in the morning with MC food instead...all very difficult for me to figure out...or maybe she just bounces until she's done bouncing?

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Is there a chance Girlie is in pain?

 

[Girlie's mom]

She has arthritis, and she's been pretty sore, but she's taking her Meloxicam; got a Zydax injection today, and had her second acupuncture treatment. So yes, but the ongoing arthritis issues aren't new. She's been sleeping off the Acupuncture since we got home, so she's very relaxed. I wouldn't say that there's a marked correlation between the arthritis and the recent high black numbers: is that what you think might be happening?

 

[Girlie's mom]

Is there a chance Girlie is in pain?

I was born in Baltimore, and a stunning black kitty was at the vets looking for a new home...your cat reminded me of him. He half stole my heart today...

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

I wouldn't say that there's a marked correlation between the arthritis and the recent high black numbers: is that what you think might be happening?

Some kitties BG goes up when in pain.

How often does she eat? Any issues with teeth/gums?

Are you testing for ketones?

 

[Girlie's mom]

Some kitties BG goes up when in pain.

How often does she eat? Any issues with teeth/gums?

Are you testing for ketones?

I test religiously for ketones: so far, always negative, thank goodness! I know this can come up really quickly, can't it? And she's had such high, high numbers since she was diagnosed at end of June. I keep all fingers crossed...

She's old (18 yo), but her teeth and gums are okay; I double-checked with the vet last week.

I'm sure her arthritis isn't helping. She's been off the Zydax injections since June, so I'm hoping that the shot today will kick in and help a bit - that and the acupuncture.

Can dramatic bouncing and diving make a cat feel bad? I wish she spoke English - or German would be fine, too...sometimes trying to read her mind is a bit tricky...

 

[Girlie's mom]

Some kitties BG goes up when in pain.

How often does she eat? Any issues with teeth/gums?

Are you testing for ketones?

Sorry: she's a nibbler, so she eats a little bit about every two hours or so, although I take food away after +7 so she has no food for several hours before a shot. She's always been a picky eater, so she's on Mirtazapine, and she likes her food now. When she licks the bowl clean, or goes looking for food with great determination, that's a surefire clue that her BG levels are dropping and I'd better check and react appropriately. Boy, this is all really exhausting sometimes!

 

[Alicia & Maggie (GA)]

Darrah, you are doing an awesome job! I hope Girlie gets a handle on those bounces soon.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Darrah, you are doing an awesome job! I hope Girlie gets a handle on those bounces soon.

Oh, thank you for that hug - I really needed it! Today was one of those tough days when I just hit a wall; I didn't feel like testing, injecting, feeding, mixing, trying to comfort the exiled civvie, and so on, and so on...sigh... But I chose this little blue Burmese when she was just a baby, and she has given me such love and support and such joy through so many tough times.

And it's all worth it, isn't it? When she looks at me with such love and trust; when she marches with such determined focus when I lie down and plops herself down in the crook of my arm and lays her head on my shoulder under my chin and stretches and then puts her paw around my neck and yawns and purrs and goes to sleep - well, I tell you, it's all worth it.

And of course, chocolate helps a lot, too!

I was so hoping we might be able to head towards remission, but we're already in month two post-diagnosis, and there are only two months to go, aren't there? I can't see how we'll get there as I'll have to be back at work by the end of September. How that's going to work out with her deep dives in the AM +3 to +5 hours I don't know...get up at 4 am so I can get a +4 in before work? We'll have to see...

One day at a time though, eh? That's all we can do. As long as she's safe - that's all that matters. Safe and happy.

Little velcro cat: I moved her off my lap so I could type my reply to you, but it's time for bed as far as she's concerned. She's just come up and patted my leg, so now she's on my lap and I'm typing one-handed... Girlie, Girlie - little cat of my heart...

 

[Alicia & Maggie (GA)]

And it's all worth it, isn't it?

It really is!! Remission would be great, but if it doesn't happen, you just do what you can to give her the happiest, healthiest life you can. Hope you both get some well-deserved rest.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

There are cats on here who went into remission after 1, 2, 3 years. Don't give up hope!!

 

[Kris & Teasel]

That 4 month number is just a guideline. It's not as though some door shuts at the 4 month mark. You're taking great care of your little girl!

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Sorry: she's a nibbler, so she eats a little bit about every two hours or so, although I take food away after +7 so she has no food for several hours before a shot.

Both AM and PM cycles?

I was so hoping we might be able to head towards remission, but we're already in month two post-diagnosis, and there are only two months to go, aren't there?

What's the story on 4 months?

 

[Beenie (GA)]

 

[Girlie's mom]

Both AM and PM cycles?


What's the story on 4 months?

Yes, both AM and PM cycles.

I understood that remission is most likely to occur during the first 4 months of therapy: Management of Diabetic cats with long-acting insulin (Kirst Roomp and Jacquie S. Rand, 2013), link available on Sticky under "Approaches to regulation"
See also earlier study based on German Diabetes-Katzen forum (German FDBM): 84% studied on TR went into remission within 6 months: Intensive blood glucose control is safe and effective in diabetic cats using home monitoring and treatment with glargine (Roomp and Rand, Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery, 2009). See TR protocol sticky

Good to know, though, that it can still happen after that... but it's more likely on TR, isn't it? But perhaps I've overthunk this or misunderstood...and at the end of the day, I have no control over this - Girlie's body does.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Many heartfelt thanks for the support and all the hugs! Thank you sooooo much!

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Yes, both AM and PM cycles.

I understood that remission is most likely to occur during the first 4 months of therapy: Management of Diabetic cats with long-acting insulin (Kirst Roomp and Jacquie S. Rand, 2013), link available on Sticky under "Approaches to regulation"
See also earlier study based on German Diabetes-Katzen forum (German FDBM): 84% studied on TR went into remission within 6 months: Intensive blood glucose control is safe and effective in diabetic cats using home monitoring and treatment with glargine (Roomp and Rand, Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery, 2009). See TR protocol sticky

Good to know, though, that it can still happen after that... but it's more likely on TR, isn't it? But perhaps I've overthunk this or misunderstood...and at the end of the day, I have no control over this - Girlie's body does.

Hmmmm...so 84%
Well I'm here to tell you that it can indeed happen after 4 months. For my Black Kitty it happened after 21 months-He was an approx 5 year old neighborhood stray we took in because he looked really sick. I got him in to a vet the same evening and found out he was FIV+, had a UTI and conjunctivitis. When the vet called the following morning and told us he was diabetic I was stunned I didn't know cats could get diabetes.
I also had no idea how long he had been diabetic, even if it was just one month, during his time on insulin he crossed from 'newly diagnosed ' to 'long term'. There was DKA and IAA, a tumor that thankfully was benign and serious gum disease.

He remained in remission 6.5 years, which was the rest of his life.

Healing has its own timetable.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Hmmmm...so 84%
Well I'm here to tell you that it can indeed happen after 4 months. For my Black Kitty it happened after 21 months-He was an approx 5 year old neighborhood stray we took in because he looked really sick. I got him in to a vet the same evening and found out he was FIV+, had a UTI and conjunctivitis. When the vet called the following morning and told us he was diabetic I was stunned I didn't know cats could get diabetes.
I also had no idea how long he had been diabetic, even if it was just one month, during his time on insulin he crossed from 'newly diagnosed ' to 'long term'. There was DKA and IAA, a tumor that thankfully was benign and serious gum disease.

He remained in remission 6.5 years, which was the rest of his life.

Healing has its own timetable.

I like that: "Healing has its own timetable..." That makes me feel better! And I'm so happy to hear that he was in remission for 6.5 years - how wonderful for you both.