? 3/10 Myagi amps 88, +1.5 131, +4 69, +6 99, +9 175 & subq, pmps 173, +3.5 135

3/9/18 - vet visit + recap + fdmb Family love and support, labs attached

Amps 88, 0.1u, 3c bkfst, ate about 2tsps and another 1 after some rabbit watch. I will wait to syringe feed/ water depending on how He goes self feeding. Gave all 3 meds (antibiotic, appy,tummy) in pill pockets.
Millie went to window bench and gave him kisses and walked away. Was very sweet.

I can't say it enough - it's from the depths of my heart, Myagi and I are so grateful and have so much love for all of you!!

 

I am so glad to see he is eating on his own! Maybe not a lot but it is something after the last few days of stress and vet visists.

 

+1.5 131 (bump from pill pockets????)

Also thinking sub q best mid cycle right?

 

Sending more positive energy your way. Sorry but no experience with subQ fluids.

 

I had heard that sub q fluids can drop numbers in some cats. It was not my experience (no effect on bg whatsoever for Asia), but just knowing it was a possibility, I tried to give fluids when she wasn’t likely to be at her lowest point.

 

My Trix was one whose BGs dropped like a rock on SubQs. For us, timing didn't matter; it came down to location of injections. I ultimately had to do Trix's fluids over her shoulder, and her insulin in her flank. If I did them both over her shoulder, she would plummet.

As Stacy said, fluids don't have this affect on every kitty, but it is something to keep your eyes peeled for if you're new to giving fluids to an FD kitty.

 

I just got all caught up!

I am happy Myagi is on the mend, though I hope they can figure out what caused it all in the beginning.

Last year, my civvie stops eating and displayed signs of nausea. After about a day and half of it, i whisked her off to the vets. Everything came back normal - except she was full of GAS! On the xray, her intestines were so full, they couldn't see everything. So they did an ultrasound, found no blockages. Just gas. Moving gas too. Doing pepcid made her feel better. Still really dont know what happened... but she is a "tiffany" cat and they are prone to digestion issues I guess.

Here's to hoping he just had some gas

 

Good to know! Since Myagi did have a bit of a drop after the iv fluids yesterday, I think I'll wait till +7 +8

+4 69, would only nibble so syringe fed 14ml of 3c soup, 2 drops karo paw and then he ate 1tsp 3c. Btw He hates the parm
He did self feed 2tbs 3c at +2 though

 

I hope Myagi continues to eat more and more for you. How sweet Millie gave him some kisses. Sending prayers.

 

(((Heidi)))

Many prayers for your mom, you, and sweet Myagi. I looked at his labs.

His SDMA indicates kidney disease and his creatinine is above 1.6 so that would also indicate very, very early CKD. I don’t rule out concurrent issues causing either of these to potentially be elevated so don’t panic that he might have CKD. I would just have his labs rechecked within a month, if possible, to see what’s going on for certain.

One thing I see that I don’t like is his HCT is really lower than it should be meaning he’s on the verge of anemia (below 30% on the HCT is considered anemic but a healthy cat should have an HCT above 35-40%). Trying to find out if it is regenerative or non regenerative can be tough. In other words, regenerative means his bone marrow can produce red blood cells but just isn’t right now for whatever reason. Non regenerative is what we usually see in CKD cats (a lot more advanced like Stage 3 instead of Stage 1) where their bone marrow can’t make more red blood cells. It would make sense that he might have regenerative anemia because his MCV value is up. When a cat has regenerative anemia and the bone marrow starts to make new red blood cells, they are usually larger in size and that’s what the increased MCV indicates...larger red blood cells. The elevated MCH is telling us something we already know....his rbcs are low. Although the reticulocytes test is not really as accurate as we’d like if a cat’s HCT is above 20%, we can still surmise that his is elevated because he has trended towards regenerative anemia. His platelets are likely low due to clumping which happens a lot when they draw the sample.

The question is....what is causing all of this? Could it be the teeth? Could it be an intestinal issue? That’s for the vets to figure out. In a perfect world, you’d have GI Panel done to see if he’s got any issues there but that’s not going to happen right now so giving him B12 injections is fine.

 

HTC and platelet section doc said was due to their draw issues (and also his dehydration if I'm remembering correctly - I honestly just know she did say he is not anemic, there was so much and I was also so focused on him). She did also say he was about a year out on ckd. I'm certainly hoping there are things I can do in his care and diet to prevent or delay that onset.

Myagi and I send you love and and special thanks fur checking in on us while dealing with your family situations.

 

+6 99, he didn't want to eat, brought out 14c and he ate about 1oz. Syringe water too.

 

Platelets, yes. HCT, no. He’s too low for that to have been from a blood draw or from dehydration. Since anemia is not considered to occur until the HCT is below 30%, she is “theoretically” correct; however, for me, if my cat is right above or at 30%, I’m thinking anemia. I also don’t know how she can say “about a year out on CKD”. That’s one of the most absurd things I’ve ever heard. No one can predict how fast CKD will progress at Stage 1 or even Stage 2.

The SDMA indicates it is CKD and couple it with the creatinine, I would say it’s most likely Stage 1 CKD but it’s best just to recheck the labs within a month to be sure his HCT is up and see where his kidney values are.

 

Hugs to Myagi and you! Please eat your food sweet boy!

 

Thanks Marje!

 

At +8 he got his famotidine and a little poached chicken.

+9 175 (I believe from the pill pocket). First sub q fluid tx. 200ml.
I panicked first then calmed and set up and got Myagi and then couldn't get the cap off the needle had to call vet and reception said everyone gone already, just pull harder. Off it came! He hated it, (the needle is gigantic!) squirmed and cried (Myagi never cries). But it went pretty quick and I gave him more chicken after. He gave loving so I hope I'm forgiven. He's napping on closet pillow.

 

200 ml is a lot of fluids in one go. It might be better to divide the subq up into 2x 100 ml. And then it is still a lot of fluid to give. Did the vet give a reason? Is Myagi a ver4y large cat? Over-hydration is hard on the heart.

 

Yes, he's a big boy. He was obese before fd but is healthy around 16lbs. He's lost over 3 lbs last week plus. He's around 12 1/2, but seriously under weight. She said 150 -200 and the iv fluids they have him were 200. I'll ask about it. Thank you fur the heads up. And thank you for staying around even though Rover is GA.

 

Just in case, scroll down to OverHydration. Good information to have.
https://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms_regulation_body_fluid.htm

Just paying it forward in a wonderful community of people.

 

The max I would ever give in one sitting was 150 mls and that was to my big boy, Gus. When my other larger guy, Max, needed 200 mls/day, I did it in two sittings ...one in the a.m. and one in the p.m. but I didn’t give the p.m. fluids if he hadn’t absorbed every drop that I could tell of the a.m. fluids.

 

Good thread. I hope Myagi can continue the road to recovery. Sometimes when they are really down, it's hard to see the light. But there is some good diagnostics and now he has some good meds.

Wow to Marje - I think she must be a vet! What a great set of advice.

Hugs to you and Myagi - this time from Austin, TX.

 

Glad you're home my friend! Thanks again for the memorial tribute. I saw in your posts it was hard for you..

 

@Marje and Gracie. @Red & Rover (GA)
vet said 150-200ml once daily, but I requested the sub q for him - she was satisfied to leave it with the iv fluids done at the office. I'm going to keep tho once a day but drop back to 100ml. My boy doesn't need additional health issues. And I don't want to hurt him trying to help him. Thanks

 

Pmps 173, 0.1u, 3c dinner with chicken pieces - he didn't want to eat - I syringed water and he ate a few bites. Appy and antibiotic meds in pill pockets. If he won't eat in a bit, I'll syringe feed.

 

Sorry you've got some new issues to deal with.

What size subq needles are you using? Vets seem to default to giving out the larger ones (fluids go in faster), but I like the 21g my vet gave me instead. I put the bag high on the shower rod, and that helped speed things up.

Regarding the pill pockets, the allergy free duck and pea are the only ones without corn syrup in them. You get them in the dog aisle, then break off a piece to wrap around the pill.

 

you guys are helping me and Myagi get through this.

Vet just gave me a handful so i don't know gauge. Monojet 186x1" (1.27mmx2.5cm).
Ya. I had ckd kitty eons ago and did fluids 2x daily year and half. But that was many moons ago and it is not like riding a bike. I hung bag from curtain rod so he could look out window. Set up was fine. and it was only about 10 minutes or so. I remember with my Maxine we seemed to be on couch forever! This was fast.

We have the kitty chicken and the doggy duck pill pockets. Chris told me in pm what you just said about duck being the only lc ones. The spike was a chicken. I only tear off what I need to cover the pill. Since the ducks are bigger anyway I should be able to make them last. I was just changing it up for him. now I know.

 

Putting the needle into the freezer will make it slide in easier if you can't get some smaller gauge needles easily.

Also, are you warming the fluids? Room temperature fluids are a good 25 degrees cooler than the internal temperature of a cat, so it can feel like it's really cold going in.

I think most people warm it a little in a sink with warm water first and test against their wrist to make it more comfortable.

@Wendy&Neko ?

 

+3.5 135, ate some chicken, wouldn't eat wet. Syringed water. He seems uncomfortable from fluids but alert.

+4 famotidine

 

Here is a video by Marje with lots of subq tips.http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-give-subcutaneous-fluids-video.144366/

 

Could Gus be more chill!!??! (Or gorgeous)

 

I was just going to link our subq fluids video for you and saw @Wendy&Neko did it for me! He was very chill but that was his personality. And he was very gorgeous. We truly miss that hunk of ginger kitten.

Lots of extra hugs for your boy today. Also....for what reason did the vet want him to have subq fluids every day? That even seems excessive to me for a cat that is not Stage 3 CKD and doesn’t have pancreatitis or something which really needs the fluid support.

 

@Marje and Gracie
Do you think he has pancreatitis ? You gauged that for Ty way before the vet even did.

 

Since I just recently got home and he’s been sick, I haven’t had a chance to read back over all his condos. One thing I’ve found out in my research on pancreatitis is that it is a lot more prevalent, even in non diabetic cats, than we think. Typically if a cat “just ain’t doing right” and is off their food, maybe a little lethargic, there’s a chance it is pancreatitis. The IDEXX lab and vet did not run a specfPL that I see (although it’s not impossible for me to have missed it). Even so, if Myagi had an elevated specfPL, it could be from some other related issue (intestinal for instance) and so the best dx is still ultrasound if the symptoms are not obviously full blown pancreatitis. Of course, that’s not possible to do at this time for Myagi.

But, the treatment is what Heidi is doing so hopefully, he will improve.