? 9/26 Stinker AMPS 88 - need help!

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Jessica Taddei

Jessica Taddei

Member Since 2017
Hello! I am new here and read through all of the sticky posts but it was a lot of information so please forgive me if I sound confused :nailbiting:
I wrote out a huge post but it seemed like so much information, I can give more info if needed. Long story short my cat Stinker is 6 years old and was diagnosed as diabetic in January. We have gone through several foods and amounts of insulin and he is driving me nuts!

Currently he is on 3 units of glargine, we draw it up in a syringe
He is eating young again zero food our other cat is also eating this and they do not get treats
His insulin is always SO high (400-450) curves were showing his numbers not really creating a bell but more going 450-390-430-380-415, etc. over a period of 12 hours.
Two days ago his AMPS was 158, I didn't know what to do so I skipped his dose, that night it was 400. Called my vet the next day and she said give him 2 units if it is between 100-200 and to skip if it is under 100. This morning it was 88 so I skipped his dose again.
Someone please explain to me what is going on because I am confused :(
 
Hi,
sorry that no one replied earlier. I do not have a lot of dosing experience so hopefully your post will catch some experienced eyes soon - my reply will send your post up to top of the forum. Also, if you edit your title and add the question mark from the drop down menu on the left of the title line you'll get more people seeing it.

I think you were absolutely right on skipping the dose when got the 88 pre shot reading. It was a pre-shot test, right? Usually the new members who do not have a lot of info - BG tests collected for their kitties - the advise is to skip if below 200 on the human meter - the number is different if you are using pet specific meter. The 3 units dose is quite large, in my humble opinion.

One of the best tolls for understanding your cat's response to insulin is to keep his reading recorded in the spreadsheet - like the one I keep @the bottom of this post. It is convenient way to track what a dose does and most posters here are well read in to the numbers and can help you understanding it.
Jessica Taddei said:
His insulin is always SO high (400-450) curves were showing his numbers not really creating a bell but more going 450-390-430-380-415, etc. over a period of 12 hours.
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Are you able to te4st in the PM cycle as well? It is important to see what is going on at night because many cats go lower at night and looking only at the daily readings gives you half picture.

Jessica Taddei said:
Two days ago his AMPS was 158, I didn't know what to do so I skipped his dose, that night it was 400.
Click to expand...
My guess is that he "bounced" from what his liver sees as a dangerously low number of 158 so it released stored sugars to bring him up. Many cats bounce from going unusually (for them) low - mine is one of them - click on DUcia SS below this post and you'll numbers all over for my bouncy girl. This unpleasant but natural and sort of a process when dealing with Fel Diabetes.There are ways to help with bounces but in order to do so we'll ask that you post your readings in the spreadsheet for analyses. After 88 this AM and after skipping the dose you probbly gpoing to see more high-ish numbers - another bouncing from wrongly perceived too low BG.

I hope this helps and someone else with dose knowledge will comment later on.

Bumping your post up - bump!
 
I just want to put I agree with Tanya's points! He is probably bouncing.

Others will most likely swing in soon to offer specific advice - I am not "there" yet. ;)

I will add: for glargine, we (the forum) don't recommend a "sliding scale" for dosing. Lantus/glargine does its best when dosed consistently. A lot of vets don't get this because they are used to working with an in/out insulin that DOES work with sliding scale. Also, glargine works a little different in cats than in humans. Did you read the sticky on the depot? Its super duper confusing at first, but with time starts to make sense LOL.

Once you get acclimated to the forum, you'll want to set up a signature with your kitties details. Typically we like to see what type of food you feed and your meter type, as well as, your protocol (which you probably havent decided on yet... its cool, don't stress!). This helps us get quick answers when we are new to your threads.

Warm warm welcome! Diabetes is soooo confusing at first! Just keep asking questions and we will keep answering :) :bighug::bighug:
 
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Thank you for the information! I will go ahead and reread those posts about lantus and the spreadsheets! Yes the 88 was a pre shot reading.
We use the alpha trak 2 for his readings. I can definitely get a curve over night from him. I have off tomorrow so I will do one tonight, although it may not be accurate since he didn't get his dose this morning.
 
Hello and welcome. I am glad you are home testing. We are quite data driven here and most record the blood glucose data in a spreadsheet. Here are the instructions. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Since you are feeding dry food, that 88 means the dose is too high. As others have said we give the same dose AM and PM. Do you think you could eyeball a 2.75 unit dose?

Also, please put that you are using the AT in your signature. It is good info to know.
 
Jessica Taddei said:
I can definitely get a curve over night from him. I have off tomorrow so I will do one tonight, although it may not be accurate since he didn't get his dose this morning.
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If my guess about Stinker to go bouncing tonight after the low 88 and the missed dose is a correct one than there is no point for you to sacrifice the entire night sleep running a curve - it will only bring in high-ish numbers back which won't tell us a lot because it is bouncing cycle - not his"real" BG numbers on that dose. If you got a moment - look in my SS at the curve I ran on March 9th and 10th - did I need them? No, they were useless because my Ducia was bouncing. You don't have to repeat the same for no good data.

Here is what I would do tonight if I were you (but you do as you feel the best, of course): I would take the pre-shot test and record it, then feed as usual and if the pre-shot number is above 200 on human meter before the food - give the new reduced (as suggested above by Wendy) 2.75 units dose and take a test at +2 (2 hours after the injection).

The +2 test is especially important for the Lantus (Glargine) users as the +2 in most cases (every cat is different or ECID, thou) is the onset of the insulin and despite the food eaten pre-shot influence it'll give a good idea as to what kind of cycle is ahead. If that +2 reading is much higher than the pre-shot - most likely you are going to have a bouncy night ahead. No reason to stay up all night - perhaps grab a later on test, like the +6 or so to collect the data. Have a rest. But if the +2 is the same or lower than the pre-shot value - you might be looking at an active cycle ahead of you when sudden drops to low numbers or a gradual lowering to the lower numbers will go thru the nadir. When is the nadir - it's individual, the more tests you collect the clearer idea you'll have about Stinker's nadir. I've seen nadirs (the lowest point of a cycle) from +2 to +13...

Perhaps tomorrow, when you are off you'll get more chances to test during the day comfortably - starting with the +2, of course and decide how often afterwards. Some cats can bounce up to 6 cycles - it's 3 days but some clear their bounces very quick. Mine takes 7 cycles lately.

I thought I should let you know before you commit yourself to a sleepless/ lotsa testing night because I do suspect that Stinker will go bouncing tonight. I might be wrong. Take the +2 test and you'll get an idea as to what is coming.

I hope you will time to start a spreadsheet - it is extremely useful tool to get control over the BG.

Please do not worry about understanding it all at once - no one does. It takes time. Post your questions - there are many knowledgeable and willing to help and share people. I hope you and Stinker are going to have safe and good night.
 
I read everything again and am feeling more confused than ever! But I am committed to understanding it eventually. Thanks for your help, his pre shot number was 391, he just finished eating. I do believe I can eyeball 2.75 and i set up the spreadsheet but can't edit it so I will record those numbers elsewhere for now.
Thank you all, we will see where the night takes us!
 
And a bouncy night it was. At 1030 pm pre shot was 391. +2 was 488 and then this am 1030 pre shot was 460. I'll be checking today at +2 and +6. If tomorrow follows the same pattern as the past few days and his amps is below 100, do I wait until his numbers go up to give him his shot? That's the part I'm confused about I guess.
 
Welcome Jessica and Stinker!!! I love his name:). I use it often as a nickname for my civvie.

The confusion will subside. Its a lot to take in. A lot. It will all get easier:bighug:
 
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