Also need input on Vets dosage recommendation

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Delores7, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    Hai everyone,
    am very new to this but what I have been reading about dosages that it is common for lower doses twice a day . My vet put my newly diagnosed cat on 8 lU Caninsulin once a day which from all I am reading about dosages is that twice a day at a lower dose is more the norm.Not sure if she didnt want to overwhelm me with giving him a needle twice a day or what and I do plan on asking her cos I wud def do twice a day if thts what it takes but would SO appreciate some opinions on this as this is still so new to me ...like one day...:O....ty in advance!
     
  2. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    OMG THAT IS WAY TOO HIGH!!!!


    Caninsulin is started at 1 or 2 units twice a day. Caninsulin is a faster acting insulin and a shot of 8 units would put your kitty into a serious or deadly hypo episode.

    PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT DOSE FOR THE HEALTH OF YOUR KITTY!!!!

    Are you home testing gluose levels. That is a valuable tool to have to help keep your kitty safe. At this point my suggestion would be to start at 1 unit twice a day and definitely home test.

    AGAIN DO NOT GIVE 8 UNITS TO YOUR KITTY!!!!
     
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  3. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    FROM THE MANUFACTURER:

    "
    How often does Caninsulin need to be administered to cats?

    In cats, the initial recommended dose is 1 to 2 IU per injection, and the injections should be given twice-daily (BID) at 12-hour intervals. Initial dosing is based on a per animal basis. The duration of activity of Caninsulin in the cat is between 8 to 12 hours – this is shorter than in the dog. Peak activity level occurs between 1.5 to 8 (average of about 4) hours in the cat."

    http://www.caninsulin.ca/faq-answers-p.asp


    Your vet is either very uninformed or has made a major error in giving you that dosing guideline.
     
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  4. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  5. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    NO!!!!! Please don't give 8u of Caninsulin to your cat, that is a crazy high dose and not safe... please hold off for the moment until you get some proper advice... can you ring your vet to double check the dose, first? Ask if 8u is what they prescribe, HOW do they come by that dose?

    When is the dose due? Where are you in the world? If you want to give a dose please just give 1u for the moment.
    This is VERY important.
     
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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THIS VERY HIGH DOSE!!! As others have said, call your vet back for confirmation and ask how this dose was arrived at. :eek::eek::eek:

    Please post here ASAP because we'll worry about your kitty. I'm crossing fingers and toes that you haven't given this much Caninsulin, even if your kitty is the size of a small dog!
     
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  7. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it appears she is not on the forum right now. I pray that she did not do the shot. :eek::eek:

    ETA @Kris & Teasel @Diana&Tom will you two be around today if needed?
     
  8. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    On and off only, am juggling about five different tasks atm...will look when I can.
     
  9. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Diana!! I will be around for another hour or so and I have tagged a few other people as well
     
  10. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    At least we have told her in no uncertain terms not to give 8u so even if nobody is around she will have been warned. Am seriously worried tho that she has already given that dose...
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I have to leave in 2 hours. I'm SO worried about this kitty. :(
     
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  12. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I am too. A dose that high for a newly diagnosed kitty could be deadly!!
     
  13. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I have just posted on the fdmb facebook page asking for more eyes here if we're not around...
     
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  14. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I added a note to Delores in case she is on there. I have no idea if she is or not or what her FB name is.
     
  15. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Sigh.....
     
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  16. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also sent her a PM through FDMB to come and read the replies here.
     
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  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    If you give 8 units there is a good chance your cat will have seizures and die. PLEASE don't give her 8 units!!!!!!!
     
  18. Tucker'sMom-Jen

    Tucker'sMom-Jen Member

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    Jul 20, 2014
    Finally got my password reset. I'll help keep an eye on things. Hoping and praying she's at the vet, since her other thread indicates she did give the shot
     
  19. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    OMG I am So upset with my vet! He got an 8 unit shot yesterday and I gave him one this a.m.!............I am calling her ask WTH?...........he threw up last night and I gave him the a.m. shot at 6 a.m./... he seems 'ok'...but I am DEF not giving him that again and am so glad for everyones feedback...she has always been a good vet up to this point...so upsetting!
     
  20. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness you saw this.

    How long ago did you give the shot? Are you home testing??
     
  21. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately many vets are not as familiar with feline diabetes as they are with canine diabetes. It is a much different approach when treating a dog than a kitty. With a dog Caninsulin is based on weight and given once a day...with a kitty is based on a starting dose of 1 to 2 units twice a day.
     
  22. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    I just spoke to the vets office and they insisted that with his high blood sugar that 8 iu is not too high and he might possibly even have to go higher....I am so upset and confused right now because just want to do what is best for Casey...I honestly dont know whaty to do at this point....
     
  23. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    NO. 8u is far too high... far far far too high. Why does the vet say this is the starting dose?
     
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  24. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but your vet is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Please read and send him the link from


    FROM THE MANUFACTURER:

    Is hind limb paresis a typical sign of diabetes mellitus in cats?

    Hind limb weakness may be the result of feline diabetes.
    This is also seen in a number of other conditions in cats:

    • hypokalemia renal failure)
    • hypoglycemia (weakness rather than paresis)
    • thrombosis (secondary to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)
    • calicivirus infection


    How many cats currently have diabetes?

    Estimates of the incidence of diabetes mellitus in cats range from 1 in 100 to 1 in 500.



    How does Caninsulin work in cats?

    A lente (intermediate-acting) form of insulin, Caninsulin contains approximately 30 percent amorphous insulin for rapid onset of activity. The remaining approximately 70 percent of the formula is crystalline insulin which is absorbed more slowly. This formulation allows for a more continuous utilization of glucose to support the body's basic functions. In cats, the peak activity following subcutaneous administration of Caninsulin occurs between 1.5 and 8 hours (with an average of about 4 hours), and a duration of activity varies between 8 and 12 hours. Caninsulin should be administered subcutaneously twice a day in diabetic cats.



    What is diabetic clinical remission and when does it occur?

    Diabetic clinical remission is a complete or partial disappearance of the clinical signs of diabetes in response to insulin treatment. This is seen not infrequently in diabetic cats with remission rates of at least 25% and 65% or more when diabetic diets are fed in addition to insulin treatment.



    What results typically can be expected from Caninsulin therapy in cats?

    Cats are usually started on 1 to 2 IU of Caninsulin per injection twice daily. Glycemic control is evaluated based on clinical signs and blood glucose curves, supported by other laboratory results, such as fructosamine. Adjustment of the Caninsulin dose is made according to clinical improvement, as well as average blood glucose concentrations and blood glucose curve nadirs. Treated cats have significantly lower blood glucose concentrations and a reduction in hyperglycemia-associated clinical signs compared with pretreatment levels. Diabetic remission may also be observed.



    How often does Caninsulin need to be administered to cats?

    In cats, the initial recommended dose is 1 to 2 IU per injection, and the injections should be given twice-daily (BID) at 12-hour intervals. Initial dosing is based on a per animal basis. The duration of activity of Caninsulin in the cat is between 8 to 12 hours – this is shorter than in the dog. Peak activity level occurs between 1.5 to 8 (average of about 4) hours in the cat.


    http://www.caninsulin.ca/faq-answers-p.asp


    ETA A kitty is stated at 1 or 2 units twice a day. After a week on the starting dose, and hopefully with home testing results available any dose increases are suggested to be 0.25 units to 0.50 units. Members here prefer to start with 1 unit twice a day and start home testing right away. If there are any switches made to food to a lower carb wet food, we suggest that it not be done until a person is home testing.
     
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  25. portana

    portana Member

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    Jun 18, 2017
    I feel for you as a newbie. What are his BG values? Maybe that can help people here help you more. I have definitely learned lots from them. Good luck!
     
  26. Tucker'sMom-Jen

    Tucker'sMom-Jen Member

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    Jul 20, 2014
    The best first step is to start testing at home. Unfortunately many of us have found more good advice here rather than with our vets. Diabetes just isn't covered much at vet school, I'm afraid, but like human doctors, there are those that know a little about a lot (think family doctor) and specialists (think cardiologist).
    As you can see, you've got a great bunch of new friends here who have experience with FD and are willing to help. We've got your back!
    Where are you located?
     
  27. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Where do you live? We have members everywhere and one of them may be able to recommend another vet in your area for a second opinion. Please believe what we are saying. 8u is a potentially lethal dose.
     
  28. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    Thank you so much for this info....I am NO WAY giving him more than the recommended dose! This was upsetting enuff w/o the dr. prescribing wrongly....I just lost my husband last year and I dont want to lose Casey to also.........this is so upsetting.I need to get a blood testing meter asap... also.I am so frking upset right now.
     
  29. Jan Radar

    Jan Radar Well-Known Member

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    Jun 27, 2015
    :bighug::bighug: I'm sorry to say that I agree with the others. Your vet is NOT correct!!! 8 units of insulin is an enormous dose. Insulin is not a medication. It is a hormone and a little bit to start with is the safest action. The cat may look fine the situation can change very quickly and have a very sad outcome

    The best thing for you to do for the safety of your cat, in my opinion, is to learn to test your kitty's sugar levels at home. It's really the only way to have any idea what the dose is doing inside the cat. If you are willing to learn, we will teach you how to do it.
     
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  30. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Delores, we really want to help you. Where do you live?
     
  31. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    The members here live and breathe feline diabetes 24/7. Comments and suggestions come from personal experience and many, many hours of educating ourselves...far more time than the average vet ever spends on feline diabetes. There are so many things that can be done to help make your journey into FD easier to deal with. Starting off with home testing is a biggie!! Learning what types of foods to feed is also important, but food changes should not be done until you are home testing.

    Whatever you need to know just ask. People here care for all the "virtual kitties" as much as they do for their own.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  32. Jan Radar

    Jan Radar Well-Known Member

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    How is your cat? How long ago was the shot given?
     
  33. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Delores @Delores7 ,

    How many hours ago did you give your kitty 8 units Vetsulin?
    What are you feeding your kitty at the moment? Dry food? Wet food?

    Are you able to take your kitty to the vet if necessary?
    .
     
  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Delores @Delores7 ,

    Are you using U40 syringes or U100 syringes?
    This should be written on the syringe barrel, or on the pack if you have a pack of syringes.
    If you are using U100 syringes then you'll have given just over 3 units, not 8, so it's important to check...
    .
     
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  35. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    It is my feeling also that so many people here who have and treat their diabetic cats at home would know more than the average vet about this condition and this is why I am in no way giving him that doses again...Ive had a good relationship with my vet and its so upsetting that they would give such beyond bad advice... when I called their office they gave me to a tech...but I am calling back and insisting the Dr. call me so I can ask her WHY she would do this! Thank everyone here for getting back to me on this so fast and urgently..;.I know everyone wants only the best for theirs and others pets.
     
  36. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    He is gettting only wet food and if something happens yes I will get him to dr. asap...thanks very much
     
  37. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Thanks so much...I live in rural ontario madawaska valley
     
  38. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Delores @Delores7 , do quickly see my message above about the syringes...
     
  39. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good question Elizabeth. U 40 syringes have a red cap, U100 have an orange cap. Which one are you using?


    [​IMG]
     
  40. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    I am using U40 syringes that I got from the vet
     
  41. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    unfortuantely I have the U40 Syringe I got from the vet
     
  42. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    I am really watching Casey closely and will be here all day in case I need to get him to dr.
     
  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm relieved you saw these messages. I 100% think you need to switch vets.
     
  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any honey or maple syrup on hand in case of hypoglycemia?
     
  45. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014

    Those are the correct ones for Caninsulin. WHY HE PRESCRIBED 8 UNITS IS SO TOTALLY BAFFLING AND SO SO WRONG!!!

    I see the closest major center to you is about 2 hours away in Ottawa. That's a big distance to travel.
     
  46. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    OK so has anyone explained the hypo standby procedure...?
    Delores, do you have any honey and high carb dry food you could give if necessary?
     
  47. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    So if you gave the shot at 6 AM your time then it would now be about +7 hours since the shot. Is that correct?
     
  48. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    Actually we have a cple vets within 20-30 minutes fortunately....ye3h I am glad I asked about the dosage cos everything I had read since yesterday was lower and twice a day....I just feel so bad for giving him too much.
     
  49. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    yes Tux Mom thats correct
     
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  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We're here to help you in any way we can.
    I live in Ottawa. How can I help?
     
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  51. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Aha! Phew!
    Well if the shot was given 7 hours ago it shouldn't be long before kitty is out of danger....
    .
     
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  52. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    You might want to phone interview the other vets and get a feel for how experienced they are with feline diabetes. I am in Winnipeg ( hi from a fellow Canadian) and the first vet I saw was an idiot. I changed vets and basically did all my own dose decisions on my own with the help of this forum. My new vet is fine with that since she agrees I know more than she does about FD.
     
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  53. Jan Radar

    Jan Radar Well-Known Member

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    Delores, please go check on the kitty. How is he?
     
  54. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I have to go out now, but at least I will be able to breathe easier now that you are back in touch with us. There are some great people helping you out, many with a lot of experience with Caninsulin, so just ask every question you can think of.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  55. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Delores, Vetsulin typically has it's 'peak' (strongest effect) at around 4 - 4.5 hours after the shot. But sometimes it can be as long as 6 -7 hours after the shot. But I don't remember ever seeing a kitty have peak of the cycle later than 7 hours after the shot on Vetsulin.
    If it is now 7 hours after the shot it is very possible that the insulin may start to wear off from this point.

    How is your kitty doing now?
    When did he last eat?
    Could be a good idea to give a snack now to ensure the blood glucose doesn't drop lower at this point and does start to rise.
    .
     
  56. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    Welcome from just south of you in Peterborough. So glad you started reading about feline diabetes. You have probably just saved your cat's life by doing so. Feline diabetes is a steep learning curve. There are lots of Canucks on the forum. We can help you by telling you which meters are available in Canada, and which ones are the best to use and the least expensive. We can help you choose the best food available here as well.
     
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  57. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Jul 13, 2017
    THAT is so good to hear......he ate some wet food about an hour ago and is sleeping behind the TV and I am checking him alot...he seems fairly alert.
     
  58. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people are very relieved to hear that.
     
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  59. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

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    Thanks so much I really feel like I found the best support site for this condition!
     
  60. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    When Casey is safe, and you've had a chance to breathe, and before you give another insulin shot (of any amount), you might want to run out to the drug store and get a glucometer. FreeStyle Lite is what most Canadians use. It takes the smallest amount of blood and has the cheapest strips of any glucometer available without ordering online. (The problem with ordering an only online glucometer/strips online is that you can't run out and buy strips quickly.) A vet might try and talk you into buying an AlphaTrak2, which is specifically designed for animals. The strips for the AlphaTrak2 are more expensive than the FreeStyle Lite, and you will go through more strips than you think. Being in a rural area, your immediate choices may be limited. Glucometers are fairly inexpensive. You do need to ask how much a pack of strips cost (that's where the expense can hit). The FreeStyle Lite strips should be $80-90 for 100. Otherwise, if you are a senior (or take a senior with you), you may be able save on the cost of strips by going on a Shoppers Drug Mart Seniors Day. There's also Walmart and Costco.

    It would be a good idea as well to call around and look for a vet that has a lot of feline diabetes experience and preferably supports home testing.
     
  61. Ninagirl143

    Ninagirl143 Member

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    Jul 12, 2017
    Glad to hear your cat is doing well. I am quickly learning vets are not correct on insulin dosages. My poor girl is in the hospital as we speak. She had a seizure and severe hypo episode. She was on 5 or prozinc twice a day. Switched to 3 as of thursday. Monday she had the episode at 2 Am had i not stayed awake i would have never known.She is coming around slowly.. on no insulin ! Please be careful. I wouldnt want this to happen to anyone, i am a mess.
     
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  62. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    OMG!
    I'm glad kitty is all right.
    Delores, you are in good hands here, lots of lovely people helping you out.
    We will get you out of this mess.
    Have you found a different vet? Do you know what was blood glucose reading at the vets at diagnosis?
    I'm so sorry to hear about your husband.
    Now we need to make sure that your kitty is getting the right treatment.
    Make sure he eats well.
    Hugs
    Marlena and Rocky:cat::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  63. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Delores, please don't feel bad about this, honey. You did what your vet asked you to do. (((Hugs)))
    (....I do wonder if your vet deals with more diabetic dogs than with cats, because what the vet has suggested sounds more like canine diabetes treatment.)

    Do take some time to breathe deeply.... This has been a tough day for you. :bighug:
    But from this point onward you can begin again with your kitty's diabetes management.

    As others have said it is hugely beneficial if you can learn to test Casey's blood glucose at home. That will enable you to see exactly how the insulin is working in his body. And it will also help you to get some feeling of control over this situation: The more we understand, the better we feel about things.

    In a nutshell, 'home testing' involves pricking the outer edge of the ear to get a teensy weensy drop of blood; then transferring that blood droplet to a test strip in a glucose meter. Then the meter counts down and you get the result. And you reward your kitty with a treat or a cuddle.
    Home testing shouldn't hurt your kitty; and a great many cats are just fine with the process if they know they'll get a reward. ...If you want to learn to hometest we can help you do that.

    Can you tell us what you're feeding your kitty at the moment, Delores? Knowing that will help us to help you.

    And how is he doing now? Does he seem OK?

    Eliz
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  64. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Nina, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience.
    I never trust any medical professional any more, just question everything and of course they don't like it.
    When Rocky was diagnosed I refused the insulin dose my vet suggested and we settled on a lower dose. One can always go higher after seeing how cat reacts to insulin. Injecting the cat with insulin shocks the system because insulin comes from outside the body, I think it confuses the system so we need to go slow with this. I wish some people including vets would understand this.

    Please have some rest, it is nerve wracking but gets easier with time.
    Keeping you and your girl in my thoughts.
    Marlena
     
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  65. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    My experience with Freestyle Lite meter is NOT very good. I think it is a good meter but for people. I have tried a few different meters and this one was reading so much lower than AlphaTrak by at least 2 points which so Rocky's number would be 18.6 on AlphaTrak but on FF Lite it was 16 which is too much of a difference for my liking. I had much better results with AccuChek Aviva - very close reading. At the moment I use AlphaTrak with Freestyle Lite test strips and that's working really well. I don't want to undermine the above advice, I only share my experience and voice an opinion.
     
  66. Mel & Monkey

    Mel & Monkey Member

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    Jul 5, 2017
    Fellow Canadian here, just wanted to say that I'm very new to this too and when picking up a a bg meter for the first time last week at london drugs, most models were free as long as you bought 100 strips (and I'm already realizing how quickly you go through them!).

    I really hope you can take care of yourself today too while checking on your fur baby. :bighug:
     
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  67. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Hi from another fellow Canadian.....I'm just "down the road" from you in London!
    I'm really happy that your kitty is ok! Is there anyone around that could go to the nearest Walmart, Costco, Shoppers, any grocery store with a pharmacy......and get a meter, test strips, and some kind of lancet device? Or if any of those places will deliver to you or even send the items by taxi? I wouldn't want you to leave your kitty right now but it would be helpful if you could test.
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I use a Freestyle Lite meter and have learned to deal with the lower readings it gives me compared to my Alpha Trak meter. The test strips for this meter aren't cheap but the 20% discount on Seniors' Day helps plus you'll get Optimum points. I've been able to cash in those points on test strips a few times now and it feels like they're "free". :)
     
  69. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    Hi from another fellow Canuck. I am way out west.

    I am so glad that your kitty is ok. I would set your self up for some home testing and sage advice from the people here. And yeah, I would get a new vet.
     
  70. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    @Delores7 Do you have any record of the Blood Glucose readings from the vet? Any numbers you have will help us help you.
     
  71. Ninagirl143

    Ninagirl143 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Thank you so much. I agree I wish I would have known sooner not to up the dose to where we had her. I feel so bad for her. I just visited with her, She is alert not eating much but im glad she is moving around. Thanks again Good vibes and prayers are needed right now!
     
  72. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I'm so glad you kitty is okay! My heart leaped into my throat when I saw that your vet told you to give 8 units!!! That's insanely high for a starting dose and could well have been fatal. I would definitely look for another vet, if it was me, I would have a very hard time trusting this one ever again.
     
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  73. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Mine too! I was anxiously reading this thread :blackeye:. I do hope you will start home testing and drop that dose way down. Quite a few of us do not consult our Vet's about our kitties diabetes but each other since we have or are living and breathing FD 24/7/365 :bighug:
     
  74. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Hopefully things have calmed down some by now!!

    Couple of ideas for you.....1st, get a meter anywhere you can for now, but you might want to consider the Bravo meter....it has the cheapest test strips (and you'll go through a lot of them!)

    Next thing to consider is the insulin....Caninsulin isn't one of the better insulins for cats (although some do OK on it) but since you live in Canada, you can get a much better insulin over the counter!! Lantus or Levemir are gentler, longer lasting insulins that work really well in most cats. They are human insulins so are available at any pharmacy. Since you're not using your health insurance (since it's for a cat) you can just walk in and ask for it.

    You've sure had a trial by fire!! Hopefully your kitty is OK tonight and I'd be looking for another vet too!!
     
  75. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Don't be too hard on yourself! My old vet prescribed 7 units of prozinc for my 9 pound cat. I gave him 7 units that night. 3 units the next morning because he only ate half his meal (old vet said give full dose no matter what but I knew that just didn't seem right) then I gave 7 units the next night. That's how I ended up here. He was in the 70s by 3 or 4 hours after his shot. This wonderful forum and members helped save my cat.
    It's easy to trust the vet... I mean, it is their JOB right?! I never knew how little studying they had to do on feline Diabetes.
    You're in the right place now!
     
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  76. portana

    portana Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
    My syringes are orange and U40.
     
  77. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Thank you for that information

    I did find this article:

    "There are syringes designed for use with U100 insulin and syringes designed for use with U40 insulin. They were at one time color-coded: U100 syringes having orange caps while U40's have red ones[4][5]. Unfortunately some U40's now have orange caps, too -- check the barrel carefully for U40 or U100 to be sure!"

    http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Syringe

    So obviously the best thing to do is check the actual syringe barrel for the proper designation.
     
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  78. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Casey Update...........my vet called and explained why the dosage; his BG was 23 and he also had a fever from unknown infection.....she has always been one of those rare vets that are awesome with people and totally loves her pet patients, she is always available for emergencies even on weekends and holidays .I have her home phone number and she has been treating feline diabetes for many years...she said we cud go down in dosage if i was worried and we cud do a test Saturday...but I really cant afford more vet bills right now especially since he has to go back a few more times over the next month. She didnt want to put him overnight because of the stress factor. She is calling tomorrow to check on how he is fairing.
    I woke up in the middle of the night and was happy to find him laying next to me which he hasnt done in 10 days and he even did some lite grooming which he hasnt shown interest in for a while either....he is perkier today and when I ran a peacock feather in front of him he showed alot of interest and tried to grab it....he is eating his wet food with alot of interest also.
    I am looking around online for an affordable monitor and especially strips as they seem to be what is so expensive and at some point this fall making food at home for my 3 cats. I didnt realise til the other day how bad dry food is for all cats in general.my other 2 boys , Frankie and Prince Harry , now also on just wet food, are both 12 and 15 months old and I want them to also be healthy as possible!
     
  79. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    I have the U40 RED Capped syringe and it says on the side 'use with U40 Insulin'
     
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  80. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Hi Delores,

    Very glad to see your update. We worry about all the kitties here. Here's my take: you obviously like your vet a lot so there's no reason you can't continue as usual with her. Kitties are more than just diabetes and she can help you with all that. I'm sorry if the avalanche of disagreement yesterday was confusing/worrying to you. There really is a ton of expertise here for handling feline diabetes. If you're willing to learn a bit about how we go about it, ask a lot of questions, etc. I think you can get your lovely kitty feeling better with our help. It sounds like your vet will follow your request to lower the insulin dose. That's good. Best case is having a vet who will work with an owner who wants to be more hands on.

    You can save a lot of money by doing more of the FD treatment and tracking yourself at home. Yes, test strips for a blood glucose meter are expensive in Canada but there are deals to be had if you have a Shoppers Drug Mart near you or if you ever travel to a Walmart or Costco. There are other tips we can give to help you cut costs.

    I strongly encourage you to let us help. We really do know what we're talking about. :bighug::)
     
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  81. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Thank you so much for the info and encouragement....I know everyone here deals with this on a daily basis so there is tons of awesome helpful info and support here that I need...I will def check out costco and Shoppers Drugmart ....
    I am also going to become as knowledgable as I can about this disorder...as that will only help me help Casey better!
     
  82. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    hi again...I was looking at the pics and my syringe is the U40 but looks alot thinner than the red capped one pictured....I looked it up and it apparently is the smallest syringe and needle ...the diameter is quite small and only goes to 20 ul
     
  83. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    The syringes can have different capacities. The numbers on the side stand for units of insulin whereas the total volume a syringe can hold can vary from 0.2 mL to 0.3 mL to 0.4 mL, etc. Later on we can tell you more about using U100 syringes and a conversion chart with Caninsulin to be able to measure out tiny fractions of a dose. That's a topic for another day ... :)

    Casey is a real cutie pie! :smuggrin:
     
  84. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Yes SO much to take in at 1st....I am happy to say Casey, who has been inside outside , tho more inside, wanted to go outside a a bit ago, so I went out with him and he is the most alert Ive seen him in the last 2 weeks...his coat seems to be getting its shine back and less dandruff and his eyes are brighter!
     
  85. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    We have to remind ourselves not to get caught up in the numbers. Minding how they are feeling is very rewarding as well :cat:. Happy kitty, happy bean ;).

    You can always go back through the posts at your own pace. I re-read many of mine to make sure I didn't overlook something :)
     
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  86. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    I hope your kitty is ok now. Sometimes even though our vets may be wonderfully kind and compassionate we need to make a choice as to what's in our cat's best interest health wise. I've had to add vets to my list for certain ailments that his regular vet was just not that good at even though I absolutely loved the vet. I hope everything goes well now for you and your kitty.
     
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  87. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    I really like my vet as well but we have had disagreements about Boomer's treatment. He used to disagree with my home testing; told me a kitty would not go hypo on Lantus...and thought I was poking Boomer's ear unnecessarily. Until one of his own cats became diabetic and spent 3 days in a coma because of a hypo. He has now admitted to me that he understands the need to test.
     
  88. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    I've found several different opinions from different vets as to how to monitor and treat diabetic cats. One told me my cat could not die from a hypo and another told me there was no reason for me to test for ketones??? I was also never informed about transient diabetes and that it is possible a cat can quickly go into remission from a food change and weight loss. It really really pays to stay as informed as possible. Unless they are specializing in feline diabetes they just may not treat enough diabetic cats to be fully experienced with all the nuances and variations that happen. I do have a specialist now that is very well experienced in diabetes, so I'm grateful for this one.
     
  89. Ninagirl143

    Ninagirl143 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    I was very misinformed myself. My nina had an almost deadly hypo episode just this Monday. It is most certainly deadly and everyone needs to be aware.. they believe she went into remission and was for quite alittle while now which is why its taking so long for the insulin to leave her body 3 days later she stopped eating much last week (she is an eater) i changed to wet food last thursday monday 2 am she had a hypo episode and seizure. I would not want this to happen to anyone! I have been on edge for a week now. I am sick over it. :(
     
  90. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    I know the feeling. Mine went into remission quickly from diet change, weight loss, and three weeks of insulin. He had a minor hypo event but since I wasn't home testing yet I was still injecting insulin until I got him into the vet for his check. That scared me into home testing no matter what. Apparently there is such a thing as transient diabetes which no one informed about. Hope your kitty is doing ok now.
     
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  91. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Wow! Another Canuck here so very glad to see the happy ending to this situation. My heart was pounding as I read through this thread. Unfortunately it's all too common for vets to prescribe excessive doses of insulin and that is often what brings people here to FDMB. It's hard to imagine a group of cat lovers have far more wisdom about the treatment of feline diabetes than most vets but that is the case. Delighted that Casey is Ok and hope you are recovering from the scare. We can help you get Casey, safely, on the road to better health and keep you sane in the process. :)
     
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  92. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Dear Delores,
    a starting dose of Caninsulin on BG of 23 (USA 414) is 1.5 - 2 units. I don't know where your vet got 8 units from - it is very scary as she treats other cats.
    So lucky that Casey is fine, it could potentially have been a disaster.
    So are you injecting insulin or not? What is your dose? Please be careful.
     
  93. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    How is it going Delores?
     
  94. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    well this is the 3rd day of 6 units instead of the 8...the vet said to try him on this if I was very concerned and he is more awake 30 minutes later instead of sleeping...he is eating and drinking more normally but still would like to eat 4 times a day...he is only getting low carb wet food and he is much more interested in playing and sitting in the window again etc...I need a monitor and will be getting one at the end of the month... and also he goes back for a checkup on the 26th...Im still not sure what a 'normal' diabetic cat in treatment looks like but I guess it is a learning process...and am very thankful for everyones input and concerns...I know once I can get a BG monitor it will help greatly also...TY all so much!
     
  95. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    If you can possibly do so, I'd get a meter as soon as possible rather than waiting till the end of the month. 6 units is still a huge dose of insulin for most cats and definitely for one so newly diagnosed. And if that is still once a day dosing, that just doesn't work in most cats. I'm sure Casey is feeling better than he was on 8 units but I would still recommend a lot of caution especially if you have recently switched him over from dry to low carb wet food. That alone can reduce a cat's insulin needs quite a bit and in some lucky cases, even put the cat into remission.
     
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  96. Ninagirl143

    Ninagirl143 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    ^^ agreed dealing with that currently . 8 days no insulin so far for my girl being periodically checked . Was on way tooo high a dose switched to wet and had a bad bad hypo . Be careful.. i wouldnt want anyone to have to go through it with their own. It is a heartbreaking thing to experience
     
  97. Delores7

    Delores7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Just so everyone knows...I would have gotten a monitor sooner but i couldnt afford one after the huge vet bill and I have to take him back on the 26th for a check up...I do not take this lightly at all...in fact this has been freaking stressful.

    Okay I decided to try Casey on a 2il dosage this a.m.... I do realise i need to give him another dose in 12 hours.....a friend is loaning me some money so I can get a BG monitor asap....should have it by end of week
    Until I get the BG monitor how can I tell if he is doing okay? At this point I do not know what to look for to be honest and am feeling beyond overwhelmed at this point.I cant afford to take him to another vet for a second opinion so that is not an option for me but I know there is alot of knowledge and experience here so I am trying to make informed decisions for Casey's sake. Thank everyone who is trying to help I do appreciate it a lot!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  98. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If I were in your shoes I would do 1 unit morning and evening and wait until the monitor came before I thought about raising the dose. Some cats are very sensitive to insulin and will never need more than that. For others they will need much more to find their "breakthrough dose". (For me I had to go up to 3 units but only for a short time before she needed it reduced again. Their needs can change quickly!) It's only another week and a half until you get the monitor.

    Even at only 1 unit I would be sure to have honey on hand just to be sure.

    Positive clinical signs would be decreased urine amounts, eating normal amounts, better energy.

    Signs to watch for: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  99. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Hey Delores! Welcome to the sugar dance! I know is hard and I know it's frustrating- I've been in your shoes and walked a few miles. I was lucky and with the help I got here, Tempest (the kitty in my pic) wasn't on insulin for very long. :)

    To answer your questions
    Unfortunately there is no way to tell how kitty is doing on insulin unless you test. (I understand this is down to not having the money right now) keep an eye on the forums as sometimes people donate ones they aren't using any more. Or even e-bay you may be able to pick up one second hand.

    I was also 'lucky' in that I ordered and had my meter before I started giving insulin. I didn't eat well for a bit and had to budget but I was absolutely terrified.

    My SS is still up (please feel free to take a look) and I was also giving ProZinc - Tempest took a hypo right away basically and if not for these forums I'd have gone to bed and not known. The people here talked me through it. The scariest thing for me was that I wouldn't have known she had hypoed because she didn't look or act really weird. The only way I knew was from the meter reading.

    I did talk to my vet about what happened and asked him how he had worked out how much to give and he had done so by weight (this is apparently how they treat diabetes in dogs). I also asked about the once a day thing. (Also how they treat diabetes in dogs).

    How much do meters/strips cost where you are?
    :bighug::bighug:
     
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  100. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I like Janet's plan of reducing to 1 unit twice a day. Monitor Casey's appearance and behaviour visually as well as you can until you get your testing equipment. If he starts looking odd, yowling, walking in an unsteady way, seems out of it, etc. feed a little bit of higher carb food and post here for advice.
     
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