Caninsulin/Vetsulin and N/ NPH

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Mamakin, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi everyone I just started to home test finally, right now I have been giving Tyler 4 units. I went to the vet last night so she could show me how to prick the ear. I got it first try. So this is what she told me about adjusting the insulin. She wrote out. If greater than 220 increase by 0.5 units. If 100-220 do not change the dose. If 80-100 decrease by 0.5 units. If 60-79 decrease by one unit. If less than 60 skip dose. She told me that I would go by what his last dose was,trying to explain this lol .So he was at 4 units, I did the test this morning and his BG was 240 so by doing what she told me I increased it by 0.5 units, so I gave him 4.05 units. Now when I do it tonight I would go by his last dose which was 4.05 units and see what his BG is tonight and then adjust it accordingly. Does this seem right to all of you .Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  2. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Diane and Tyler,
    4 units is a lot of insulin to be on for a newly diagnosed FD kitty. How did the vet arrive at that dose?
    It's great you are home testing.
    Are you testing about 5 hours after the insulin to see how low the insulin is taking Tyler?
    If you could set up a spread sheet it would people to help you. Here is the link. If you have trouble settling it up, as for help....there are people here who can help you set it up.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    I don't know much about vetsulin, so I will tag a couple of people who can help you.
    @Elizabeth and Bertie @Kris & Teasel

    There is also a support group where people who use vetsulin post. Here is the link
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/
     
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  3. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Tyler as diagnosed over a month ago. She started him on 2 units . Then I went back once a week and she tested him and increased him as needed. I also got him off dry food and he's been on wet food only. She doesn't want me to do the curve test as of yet. No I haven't tested him 5 hours after giving the insulin, but will definitely do it tomorrow. Thank you.I will try to set up the spreadsheet , I have an Android tablet, I looked at the directions quick the other day, omg I hope I can do it
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  4. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Diane, well done for learning to test! :bighug:
    Short answer, the advice as it is written could be very dangerous for your cat, since it seems to suggest giving shots at completely normal blood glucose numbers...and with a fast acting insulin...
    However, I wonder if there's been a misunderstanding here, and what was meant was these numbers refer to the nadir, or lowest number of the cycle, and not the pre-shot number... That would make more sense....

    For newcomers, we recommend that NO insulin is given if the blood glucose, at the time of the shot, is below 200.
    And it's advisable initially to not let the blood glucose drop below 90 - 100 at nadir.

    Here's the link to our beginner's guide to Vetsulin:
    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)

    Eliz
     
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  5. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Diane @Mamakin which meter are you using, a human meter or a pet meter...?
    And at what point did you stop the dry food?
    .
     
  6. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    4.5 units is an incredibly high dose for a pre-shot number of 240...
    How many hours ago did you give that shot, Diane?

    And do you have some high carb food available and a sugar source such as glucose or syrup in case of hypo?
    Here's the link to our emergency hypo instructions. It's a good idea to read it through and then print it out to keep with your high carb food, so you can grab it in an emergency, especially if there isn't anyone around to help you.
    How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
    .
     
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  7. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Oh I just have to warn you that my old vet started my cat on 5 units! I was just learning to test & not yet very active on this forum. A few people said 5 units on vetsulin was too much & I just did not understand. A couple days later I saw that my cat was not very alert, her bg was 42 & I had to rush her to the ER. They saved her. Her bg was 515 at the vet on diagnosis. From then on I listened to the well informed people on this forum & started her back on 1 unit. If you aren’t home testing ... please read the vetsulin sticky’s & rethink what amount you’re giving Tyler to keep him from going hypo. This amt is very dangerous!!! I am not trying to be rude or scare you honestly but I would hate to have my experience with Baby happen to anyone else! :bighug:
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
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  8. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi now I'm really nervous about what the vet told me. I'm using the Alpha Trak 2 . I stopped the dry food on Oct 10, 2018. He was diagnosed with diabetes on Sept 21, 2018. His BG was 500 at that time. So my vet started him on 2 units. Then I saw her every week, was increased to 3 units on Oct 1,2018. Then increased to 4 units on Oct 8, 2018. On Nov 6, 2018 is when I went to the vet and she showed me how to do it and we tested it that night in her office, it was 178. S going by what she wrote down , when I got home to feed him at 7:30 pm I gave him 4 units. So by going by what she wrote down which I posted above this is what happened.. 11-7-2018 at 7:30 am tested the BG it was 240 so by what she wrote I increased it by 0.5 units. Then tested at 7:30 pm the BG was 287 so I increased it by 0.5 units, so I gave him 5 units. 11-8-2018 at 7:30 am tested and it was 220 so I left it at 5 units going by what she wrote down for me. Now I'm nervous by what you have told me lol. Do you think I should test his BG today at 1 pm . I give him his insulin at 8 am and then 8 pm. I guess I should tell her what You all recommend, and print off the starters guide about Vetsulin. I'm so confused
     
  9. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi the 240 BG reading was yesterday Wed 11-7-2018 I always give him the insulin at 8 am and then 8 pm. I do have Iams dry food available healthy Adult on hand and syrup
     
  10. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    That must have been scary as hell. Look at what I replied to other people , my vet started Tyler on 2 units at first. Boy now I'm so confused that my vet is giving me wrong advice by what I am reading. I'm going to print off everything and show her ..Tha Tha
     
  11. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Yes, please do test as soon as you can, Diane. And let us know the test result.

    Also, can you tell us in terms of 'how many hours' since you gave the shot, because we're from all around the world and in different time zones.
    So, one hour after the shot is '+1', two hours after the shot is '+2', three hours after is '+3', etc.
    .
     
  12. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Will do, When I do it I will tell you asap. I'm from the US and will use the +1, +2 and so on. I always give him his insulin at 8 am and 8 pm. Thank you so much
     
  13. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I'm using the Alpha Trak 2 and stopped the dry food on 10-8-2018
     
  14. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    @Mamakin ....That must have been scary as hell. Look at what I replied to other people , my vet started Tyler on 2 units at first.

    Yes I broke the sound barrier driving there! And my vet just wasn’t right at all. (5 units!) I have a new vet that is pleased with Baby’s numbers & is so open to any new info I need to ask about. If she doesn’t know she tells me she needs to research. I like her honesty & willingness to help. I hope your vet is understanding & is open to suggestion.
    In a nutshell, we like to see what the bg reads at different times in the 12 hr cycle before increasing or decreasing a dose. Start low, go slow. You are doing a great job for Tyler!
     
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  15. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I'm using the Alpha Trak 2 and stopped the dry food on 10-8-2018
     
  16. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Elizabeth. I just tested Tyler at +5. His BG was 97 .Using Vetsulin and the Alpha Trak 2. So I tested him 5 hrs after his morning test which was 219 . What do you think
     
  17. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    I would test again to see how low hes going. It will give you more data for future reference. The amount of insulin we shoot is based on the lowest bg in the cycle. You may want to continue on the vetsulin forum where you’ll get advice from experienced users of that insulin... :)))
     
  18. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
     
  19. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hey Elizabeth, I'm confused, how could you not give a cat no insulin if their BG is 200 or below before feeding them, won't it go up after feeding them? When I tested Tyler this morning his BG was 219 so I gave him 5 units following what my vet told me to follow , I posted what she wrote above. I decided to test him +5 and it was 97 using the Alpha Trak 2 and Vetsulin. What do you think about it
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  20. Mamakin

    Mamakin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi she didn't start him on ,4 units at first, she started him on 2 units, then I went in every Monday and she increased it to 3 units, then the next Monday to 4 units. I am home testing at home now and following what she wrote down for me on how to adjust the insulin. If you look at the top I explained what she told me to do
     
  21. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Diane, yes, the blood glucose may rise after feeding, but that rise 'may' be temporary.

    The guideline to not give a shot below 200 initially is for newcomers to feline diabetes. Once the caregiver has learned to hometest, and has got some data about how their cat responds to insulin, they may well give shots below 200. Until the caregiver has learned to test and gathered some data, that 'no shot' number of 200 helps to keep the cat safe from hypoglycemia (but is still no guarantee of safety).

    Do have a thorough read of the beginner's guide to Vetsulin. It is written by a group of members who have a lot of collective knowledge about this insulin, and is based on the FDMB membership's real experience of using Vetsulin over many years.
    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
    .
     

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