Cat in the UK just diagnosed with diabetes

Hello, I'm based in the UK & I've joined your forum because I couldn't find one this side of the pond !
My 8 year old cat has just been diagnosed with diabetes :sad: & after all the tests has been put on the 1.5 units of insulin daily ( it's the next but lowest) She's only been on it for 2 days, & last night she had diarrhoea once, doesn't seem hungry , is rather lethargic & is just eating a few biscuits ( as well as some grass in the garden). I rang my vet, & she said not to giver her the morning shot, don't offer her wet food & then offer her her supper & give her the evening shot.

I intend to ring my vet if she refuses her supper & ask about the evening shot.

I'd like to know if it's common for a cat to have an upset stomach when they first start on insulin ? My vet says it has been known, but I'd value peoples' opinions here.

If anyone could direct me to a UK board as well , I'd be grateful, as I imagine some of the drugs & terminology are different in the US.

Thanks I hope someone can help :smile:

 

Re: Cat just diagnosed with diabetes

Welcome to FDMB! We actually have a number of folks here from Europe - Scotland, England, France, even Bulgaria, to name some. There is a Diabetes Katzen group that posts in German, if you can speak and write that.

If you go to the first post you made and click on edit, you can add "in the UK" to your subject line. That'll get the attention of our UK members.

Her dose of Caninsulin may be too high for her, especially if you've changed food at the same time. We strongly advocate home blood glucose testing to help keep your cat safe. Get yourself an inexpensive human glucometer then check my signature link Glucometer Notes for what some of the home glucose testing ranges are in mmol/L.

For some food resources and such from your side of the pond, see Zooplus which has a number of low carb, over the counter foods you may wish to check out - Bozita, Smilla, and Grau are 3 which I remember right off.

 

Re: Cat just diagnosed with diabetes

Hello BJM & thank you. Are these home glucose testing kits one where you have to get a drop of blood from their ear ?

The vet showed me her glucose curve & she went from 28 to 20 on just 1 unit of insulin, that's why she suggested 1.5.

I havn't change her food, the vet told me to keep it as it is for the first week.

I'd noticed Zooplus had some low carb cats foods, I asked my vet about them & she said not to try & change her over yet, she'd tell me when.

Thanks for your post, it's been really helpful :smile:

 

Re: Cat just diagnosed with diabetes

Yes, exactly. You'll want an inexpensive human meter, matching test strips, and lancets in the 25-28 gauge size. The local pharmacy may have ones that'll suit. If available, an over the counter topical antibiotic ointment with pain relief (We have a product called Neosporin with pain relief) may be applied to the ear briefly before testing, then wiped off. This helps the blood bead up, and reduces the annoyance of testing.

 

Thanks BJM !

 

Hi and welcome to the forum. I am also from the uk, down in Dorset. It will get easier but it is definitely a good idea if you can test at home. I went and bought the accu-check meter from Boots. The test strips are quite expensive but I buy them off eBay now and it's a lot cheaper. The accu chek is good but it does seem to want a fair bit of blood there were other brands on sale too and they might need a little less.
This is a comparison of different meters
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=103511

Tips on home testing
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

Whilst your cat is getting regulated I would also pick up some ketostix test strips so you can check her urine for ketones. Again you can pick them up over the counter at places like boots, just don't say they are for a cat otherwise they can get funny about selling them to you or indeed anything.

There are two other UK members that joined this week and if you look back down the front page you will see there threads with lots of useful tips in them.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=129214
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=128711

What insulin is your kitty on? Most people in the Uk start of on caninsulin. When my cat was on it he did seem a little out of sorts but didn't suffer an upset tummy. If at all possible you should try to ensure you cat eats enough and drinks enough water as you want to ward off the risk of diabetic ketoacidosis. The test strips I mentioned before can help pick that up early. If you are unable to give the dose tonight and your cat still isn't eating then you really need to watch for this as it can get serious very quickly.

If she has only just been diagnosed you might want to consider getting your cat onto the royal veterinary college feline diabetic remission trial. If your cat is accepted you take her in for free health checks and test, she will get free insulin and food along with the blood glucose testing equipment.

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/research/research- ... ion-clinic

With regards food I use Thrive wet food but they are quite a few brands in the uk that you can use now. Changing to a low carb wet food can dramatically affect how much insulin your cats needs and so this maybe why your vet recommended keeping her steady for now. I always try to just change one thing at a time so i don't get confused about what has affected the outcome. Perhaps you might want to get the home testing started first and then once you know you can monitor her you can slowly introduce a new food.

This thread talks about different food available in the uk
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64843

Best wishes

Sarah

 

Thanks philka for all that helpful advice. Yes, Squiggles is on Caninsulin . I'll have to look up ketoacidosis , I havn't found out much about that yet.

I'm not sure how much success I'd have getting blood out of squiggles ear for a glucose test, I usually get my fingers taken off when I try & give the the fleas treatment on the back of her neck !

I'll re read your post more thoroughly later & follow up all the links x

 

When there isn't enough insulin to use the glucose, fat is broken down for calories. Ketones are a by-product of that process. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) in a diabetic. Treatment for DKA require hospitalization and can be quite expensive. See my signature link secondary Monitoring Tools for some tips on urine testing for ketones (and glucose, too, if desired), as well as other assessments you may find helpful to make.

Your nose can pickup up the odor of 2 of the 3 kinds of ketones - fruity or nail polish remover odors on the cat's breath are clues to potential DKA, though not surefire due to the non-smellable 3rd ketone type. When infection is combined with not eating, and not enough insulin, you have a perfect storm ready to go into DKA.

 

Thank you BJM, more very useful advice , I havn't noticed any strange smell from her wee yet, it's another thing I'll ask my vet about tomorrow. I'm taking her down to have her blood glucose tested tomorrow, because she hasn't eaten much today, owing to her tummy upset, & the vet told me to leave off her evening insulin as giving it to her on analmost empty stomach could send her hyper .

 

Try to make sure that she is drinking something. From what I have read there are three things that combined can lead to DKA and that is dehydration + lack of insulin + inflammation (actually not sure if food should be in there somewhere). So you need to try to break that combination.

It's great that you are taking her to vet tomorrow. If she still isn't eating you could ask about getting some anti nausea meds such as ondansteron or if she is vomiting some cerenia.

You might also want to sound your vet out about a longer lasting insulin such as Lantus. This is what they are using on the royal veterinary college trial with great success. Or perhaps even mention the trial if this is something you might be considering for your cat. Caninsulin is one of those insulins that has deep quick peaks but then leaves the system perhaps quicker than might be desired. I'm not saying that it doesn't work as it can but the longer lasting insulins can perhaps give longer periods with better glucose numbers.

 

It is the breath which smells floral or like nail polish remover. This is true for human diabetics, too, and one of the reasons a human diabetic is sometimes mistakenly believed to be drunk - the odor is similar as may be the behavior.

 

Yes I remember reading that about cats' breath BJM . She seems better today & is eating. I took her to the vets, (she hadn't had her injection on vets orders ) & her glucose was 24, so as she's eating now, we're back on the routine.

 

Hello from Leicester and welcome!

The past two weeks have been my first experience with Caninsulin, but Nipper's numbers got worse since I started it. Higher numbers could be why Squiggles has been feeling poorly. My vet said that's common and I think the scientific reason is that a sharp decrease in blood sugar can cause the liver to panic and dump sugars into the bloodstream and then the sugar goes up. The idea is the cat eventually gets used to the insulin's action and the numbers settle down. If you look at my spreadsheet you'll see some high numbers in the middle of the cycles and I think that's what's happening.

Nipper had a poorly tummy for a few weeks before she was diagnosed, in fact I was considering bringing her to the vet for that reason before I noticed she was drinking more water.

As for home testing, I'd recommend you at least give it a try. While she's feeling poorly she may be more receptive or less feisty and if you set the precedent of lots of treats before and after she may allow herself to be bribed. She may surprise you. Freeze dried chicken/tuna/duck (available from zooplus website) are a great low carb treat.

Again welcome and please don't hesitate to ask more questions and let us know how you and Squiggles are doing.

Lori

 

Hello Lori,

Thanks so much for that information. My vet didn't mention the liver dumping sugars in the blood stream, but it could be the cause of her being off colour. I've heard about those treats on Zooplus. My vet seems reluctant to let me give Squiggles extra treats at the moment, but I shall definitely buy some when she's stabilised.

I'm sure things will stabilize soon & things will be better when my own vet comes back from maternity leave, this one seems to sometimes forget to tell me vital things. :shock:

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be asking you lots more questions over the next few months !

Lynx

 

Disclaimer that I'm no scientist or vet but that's my simplistic understanding. I know that can happen to diabetic humans and that's most of my diabetes experience. Anyway lots of factors can impact blood sugar, including the stress of going to the vet!

I assume your vet is concerned about changing her diet or feeding high carb treats given her diabetes and tummy upsets. Maybe you can ask about giving freeze dried meat or just small pieces of cooked fish or chicken as treats, since these are very low carb.

Good luck with the vet(s). Ask them lots of questions, ask us lots of questions. There's a lot to learn, but the best thing you'll learn is that many cats get better with a short course of insulin and a diet change and then no longer need insulin!

Cheers,
Lori

 

Thanks Lori, I'm getting nowhere with this vet regarding changing her diet at the moment :roll: . However this particular vet is away when I take Squiggles in for her next glucose curve. I hope I see the new vet who's only been there a few months , from what I've seen, she seems a bit more thorough !

Anyway, my own one will be back soon :razz:

Don't worry, I've asked lots of questions already ! & will do on here as well !

I have been giving Squiggles a few little bits of cooked chicken as treats already.

 

Hello Lyn, and welcome to FDMB.
(Waving 'Hi' to you from Surrey!)

I see that you've had some super-duper advice already.
There's a lot of information there to take in though, so don't let yourself get overwhelmed. you don't have to do everything all at once.
Just take things at your own pace. And remember to breathe...

If you're willing to learn to hometest (ie. test your cat's blood glucose at home) a popular meter in the UK is the Accucheck Aviva. It's usually easily available from pharmacies (though the test strips for the meter can be bought, ongoingly, a lot cheaper on Ebay.)

The idea of hometesting probably sounds a bit scary at first. But please know that this should not hurt your cat at all. And it isn't actually hard to learn, but it can take a few goes to get the hang of things. So just be patient with yourself.
You can begin to get Squiggles used to the idea of testing just by massaging or holding her ear for a couple of seconds, and then rewarding her with a treat. If she's OK with you touching her ear then she will almost certainly be OK with testing. I crumble a few cat treats for my Bertie and then test him while he's eating those. Some folks test first and then reward the kitty afterwards with a treat or a cuddle. Cats soon learn to associate tests with treats.

You are going to do just fine, Lyn; and Squiggles is lucky to have you as her care-giver. :smile:

Ask any questions you want to. We're here to help.

Eliz

 

Hello Elizabeth,

Thank you for your welcome & your very helpful advice. I'm trying not to read too much too fast, in case as you say I get overwhelmed !

Thank you for suggesting I massage Squiggles ear, to get her used to being handled, That's a very good idea.

It's nice to have so much reassurance from everybody.

Lyn

 

Hi Lyn,

we live on the Wirral, Merseyside, North-West England. *waves*
Pedro has been diagnosed just over 2 weeks ago and we are still unravelling the complexities of feline diabetes. *sigh*

We quickly realised that we would need to home test and after a couple unsuccessful pokes around the ear we now test in the pad and it's brilliant!! So much easier!! And 4 different pads to choose from.

I took the cap of the lancet pen and don't use the springy mechanism, but simply warm up the main pad of whatever paw we're using. Usually cuddle him and massage the pad. Then I poke him once or twice close together and then gently squeeze until I have a big enough drop. Easy-peasy and definitely worth a try!!

Hope you can make it work for you and your cat!
Mue x

 

Hello Mue,

That sounds a good idea about using the pad, The vets couldn't find their home testing kits yesterday :roll: I'll ring them today ! This morning, after having an off day on Sunday & being fine & back on the insulin yesterday, this morning, she's completely off her food again & bringing up white froth ! I really don't understand what's going on, any ideas people ?

 

Did you have any other tests done at the vet? Blood, scans, X-rays. I wonder if she also pancreatitis or IBD

Can you remind me about her food. When she got her diagnosis did you change her food? If do did you do it suddenly or over a few days. A change in food might have upset the system. Also have you changed how often she eats. You cat do better with smaller meals spread out over the day. I find my remi will throw up what seems like bile if I only feed twice a day.

 

phika, no I havn't changed her food, the vet told me not to & she's eating small meals throughout the day.

Funny you should mention about pancreatitis or IBD , the new young vet I spoke to this morning wondered if it could be something else going on in her pancreas. I've got to keep her off insulin today, take her down to the vets later today if she gets worse . If she improves & starts eating again, I've got to ring the vet tomorrow morning , before I give her any insulin, & we'll discuss what else it might be & what they can do about it.

Thanks for your help x

 

Hello everyone , just a quick update, Squiggles has been fairly stable, She went back to the vets for another glucose curve test, He blood sugar didn't go up as high as before during the day , but her insulin needs to be upped to 2.

The vet has taught me how to glucose test her at home & next Friday I've got to check her blood sugar level 2 hourly through the day. I'm getting quite apprehensive about it :shock:

Is there any position to get your partner to hold your cat so it doesn't wriggle too much ? There's no way she'd just sit there & let me do it ! & should I do her first ear prick test before or after she's had her morning insulin ?

 

Test before you shoot, for safety.

Prepare an area ahead of time - comfy towel to sit on, testing supplies at the ready, low carb treat to give whether or not you're successful.
I find that if I have a squirmy cat, I can have the cat on a counter/shelf, use my left arm to snug the cat up to my body and that hand to stabilize and hold the ear, while the other hand does the pricking and meter placement.

 

Thank you BJM. I'll make sure I've got all that at hand first ! I'm going to get my husband to watch the DVD supplied by the glucose meter manufacturers , & he's prepared to hold her. I well test it first. One of the receptionists who works at my local vets offered to come & help me with Squiggles if I'm struggling. She often holds cats at the vets if none of the vet nurses are free.

I've bought a tub of Thrive those freeze dried chicken bits & I find then very useful when giving Squiggles her insulin.

 

Hi Lyn,

I use Thrive chicken treats too. I crumble a few for Bertie and that keeps him occupied while I do his blood tests.

You may actually find that testing is easier than you think. I didn't initially think I'd be able to test Bertie at all because he's a big strong cat and wouldn't/couldn't cope with being restrained. But I soon found out that I didn't need to restrain or hold him at all, because the cat treats kept him occupied.

I also managed to test a foster cat recently using another 'distraction' method. This particular cat loves to have his head scratched, so I managed to sneak the blood test into a little head-scratching session. He didn't even seem to notice!

The thought of hometesting can be very daunting. We've all been there. But you will very soon become an expert at it. Honestly, you will! :smile:

There's a good page of pics and info about hometesting on this site too: http://www.sugarpet.net/bloodtst.html

Good luck, and do ask any questions you want to. Everyone here will know a few tips and tricks about hometesting that worked for them.

Eliz

 

Thank you Elizabeth for all your words of encouragement xx I suppose in a way getting someone else to hold them makes them evem more stressed ! Goodness knows how you do a blood test & scratch a cat's ear at the same time :shock: I hope I'll be successful. I'll go & read that link.

 

It is more of a quick little prick of the ear, than a scratch.
Read over the meter instructions and test yourself to practice, or test on a piece of apple, to get a feel for it. Then give it a go with your kitty.

 

Thanks BMJ, I had a practise this morning ( on Squiggles ! ) She was relaxing on the settee & I had a go, ( while giving her some chicken bits ) she didn't move, but I didn't manage to get any blood, so I made a big fuss of her anyway & I'll leave it again until Friday , the day of the glucose tests , now I know what I'm doing . ( Supposedly :shock: )

 

I think I would try to give it ago each day as that way by Friday you wont be so stressed trying to get it.

Did you warm the ear prior to trying to get blood. I have found that really helps the blood to flow. Ideally you want to get into the habit of taking a blood glucose reading before each insulin shot.

 

Thanks phika, yes I will , I didn't really have time to warm her ear, but I should have done , I'm a bit concerned about trying each day in case I make her wary . She's so desperate for food when she first wakes up, & my OH isn't always awake, I wouldn't want to rush her , but I think I must do a test before she eats.

 

You will get used to it. Could you just try it in the evening before she eats her evening meal. That way you aren't as rushed as the morning?

Always give a treat afterwards. They soon begin to associate the test with the treat. I use thrive freeze dried chicken.

 

Yes I will phlika, I'll give it a go tomorrow, thanks for the encouragement x

 

We managed to do Squiggles blood glucose curve on Friday , poor little thing, I had to have 2 goes at it each time , although I got the hang of it properly by the last one.

The lowest she went down to was 15, but my vet wants her to stay on ? 2iu for the next week or two.

 

We did another 10 hour blood test yesterday, as instructed, & the results were roughly the same as the last one ie 25.2 18.4 17.2 17.1 24.7. She's been on 2 iu for 3 weeks now.

I couldn't get hold of my own vet this morning with the results, she was busy, she's going to phone me later, but on the strength of those numbers, I gave Squiggles 2.5 iu this morning. Do people think this is alright ? She ate well at breakfast

 

Are you still on Caninsulin? If yes, be careful with dose increases as it can hit hard and drop fast. Maybe test around +3 to +4ish post shot.
We usually try to eyeball 0.25 unit increases of any insulin.

 

Yes BJM we are still using Caninsulin. The vet says we can put it up to 2.5 iu, but thanks to your advice I'll try testing Squiggles after her next shot.

 

Happy new year

I know I already posted about this earlier in your thread but I with all the information that was thrown at you you might not have looked into the diabetic remission trial at the royal veterinary college

 

Thanks Phlika , I did think about this, but Squiggles is a terrible traveller & gets so stressed she always messes in her carrier within 10 mins of getting in the car , I'm not sure it would be fair to put her through long journies for check ups. I will look into it however.

 

Ahh fair enough. It might still be worth contacting them-Ruth as she is very knowledgable about this subject and might be able to give you suggestions. They are having great success with lantus, a longer acting insulin, and Ruth helped to persuade my vet to allow me to give this ago. With the help of this insulin and the fantastic people on this board I was able to get remi into remission. I'm not saying its a magic cure and not every cat is able to do the same but because lantus acts for longer in a cat's system their blood glucose remains under better control for longer and so less damage from the diabetes.

 

Thank you Phlika, I will definitely contact them. I've read the link here about the best wet foods, & am still a bit confused. Squiggles prefers wet cat food that has got some jelly in in. Do you know if Nature's Menu, Lily's kitchen & Encore would be suitable for her ? ( She used to like Encore, but she's gone off it now )

Also, she really hates it if I withdraw all dry food. Is there any that's higher in protein than others ?

Also, is the lantus given in an ordinary syringe ? or does it come in a special vet pen !

 

You can purchases Lantus two (or three) ways. One is a 10 ml via that you use with human U100 syringes.
A 3 ml disposable pen (usually sold as a pack of 5. The pen only dispenses in one unit increments and that is not satisfactory for most cast since then need fraction increments. So yo just insert human syringe in the pen-needle end and draw the Lantus out like from a vial. In some countries you can also purchases cartridges for a reusable pen. You draw the insulin out just like from the disposable pen.

 

My vet wrote out a vet prescription for the lantus and I found that it was cheaper to get the pack of 5x3ml vials. I bought them from sainsbury and they cost me £44 pounds for the five. Each vial potentially lasts months as you are using tiny doses. I bought the syringes off vetuk for about £15 for a pack of 100.

Lantus is only prescribed in the uk under the cascade system ie you have to show that caninsulin isn't working well enough/long enough and so it is helpful to keep getting those blood glucose readings and to start up a spreadsheet documenting them. I used this along with the help of Ruth to persuade my vet.

With regards food it am not all that great at working that sort of thing out but I think you will find this thread useful. It doesn't start out talking about uk food but does towards the end. Baileyuk mentions Lilly's kitchen, natures choice,etc but beware that different types within the same brand vary. I am sure bailyuk won't mind you contact her. Aine was always fantastic at working out foods but am sure others can help. If you find one she likes then you can always start a new thread just asking others to check it's okay. The gravies are the higher sugar ones I think .

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ng-mel-please-look-at-ss.128413/#post-1323778

Re the dry food I don't think there is really any that are better. How about just putting down a couple of thrive freeze dried chicken treats instead. Just break them up into tiny pieces. Would that be enough?

 

Thank you both for your replies. the info about Lantus & how to buy it is very helpful. I understand now why it's not easy to get Lantus straight away.

Is Ruth the person running the trial at the Vet Hospital, or am I getting confused ?


Thanks also Phlika for the advice about wet & dry foods & the contact details. Squiggles will eat Thrive if she's desperate, but really does like some dry biscuits. ( I know it's very difficult )

What do you think of Applaws dried cat food ? http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/applaws/400652#more

I have a feeling it might be difficult to get Squiggles into remission, I suspect her diabetes was coming on for about 6 months before I really twigged what was going on. I feel so guilty about it

Sorry to bombard you with questions folks !

 

Hi Lynn

Ruth the the co ordinator I think and the person who seems to get back to you initially.

Please don't best yourself up about missing the problem initially. It is so hard with cats, they hide their problems so well that it is easy to miss the signs. My cost remi was on steroids and was at risk of developing diabetes and I still missed the signs. Cats that have been diagnosed for years can go into remission so please don't think it can't happen for you and squiggles. They stand a better chance of this if they remain in good/normal blood glucose range for as long as possible each day. This can happen with caninsulin but longer acting insulins can improve control.

With regards applaws I doubt it is much better than the others but I will try to work it out for you. Edit-just checked it has 15 % carbs and so still over the 10% recommended so I guess the answer is still a no.

There is one dried food that is meant to be zero carbs but I forget which one? An American brand I think. Hopefully someone can advise.

Edit-found it it is young again zero carb https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/10browse.asp?category=cats&ProductCode=92100 not sure if available in the uk

 

Hi Lynn,

I'm in the UK, too. I've just skimmed through your thread and have a couple of answers:

Nature's Menu pouches contain a broth jelly so your kitty might like them.

If your vets have other clients that use Lantus, they may actually carry the pen cartridges instead of the vials. Our vets supply both Caninsulin and Lantus in single cartridges, which can reduce the outlay for each insulin Rx.

WRT Young Again dry food, I contacted them last year and they advised that they are in the process of getting approval to sell their product into the EU market. I haven't followed it up since because Saoirse is now on wet food only. It might be worth dropping them an email to see how far along they are in terms of supplying to the UK.

I know what you mean about feeling guilty about missing the signs: I felt the same way about Saoirse. The polyphagia wasn't obvious because our then vets had prescribed a diet with very restricted portions to help her lose weight (weight gained after being prescribed a different dry Rx food). As you start seeing improvements, it does help to assuage the guilt. It also helps when you think about the number of people who don't even attempt treatment. Even though it might not feel like it right now, you're doing great.

 

Thank you Philka & Critter Mom for the reassuring words *HUGS* I think I missed the signs because it was such a hot summer & before Squiggles barely drank anything, that I wasn't too worried. Also she was such a naughty cat for bringing home dead animals, that I was quite relieved when she didn't do so this year & put it down to building work where she usually goes hunting, not that she was off colour !

Thanks for looking up Applaws, I'll give it a miss, & that sounds hopeful about the YoungAgain dried food.

I'll definitely give Natures Menu a try, should I do some blood tests when she goes on it to check her glucose levels aren't going down too much ?

When Squiggles has been on Caninsulin a bit longer, I'll talk to the vet about her glucose curve & see if she'll consider changing to Lantus. I get the impression I ask a lot more questions than some of the other owners with diabetic cats & query Squiggs treatment sometimes I don't want to antagonise my vet, but I'll see how it goes & will definitely say something if I feel Squiggles could do better on other treatment !

Thanks once again, I really appreciate all the help.

Here's a photo of the little Monster !

 

What a lovely photo and what a pretty cat squiggles is

Yes if you are switching over to wet food then you should definitely be testing as it can alter their requirement for insulin. Roughly what percentage of dry is she on now?

How often are you testing now? Ideally you would test before each insulin shot and then again during each twelve hour cycle. Are you recording the tests anywhere? Could you set us a spreadsheet as it would really help both you and the forum members as we can see more easily what is happening

Here is how you do it http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

With regards the vet it can be daunting to question their choices and this is where Ruth and the RVC may come in useful. If you say that you came across the trial on Facebook and contacted them as per their Facebook request and discussed the benefits of lantus they can't just dismiss it as some 'crazy idea off the internet'.

 

Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.

 

Gorgeous photo of your beautiful girl.

 

Thanks everybody for your help & advice about setting up a spread sheet. At the moment, until my vet works out the dose of insulin that will keep Squiggles stable, she's told me to only test her once a fortnight.

I am keeping a record of the results, but I don't think I've got the confidence yet to alter her insulin results after testing her myself.

These are the blood test results we did last Thursday , starting at 8.30am pre shot & before being fed, & then done 2 hrly. I had to ring the vet at 5.30 pm with my results.

25.2 18.4 17.2 17.1 24.7.

I used the Alpha Track 2 tester & my vet says normal cat glucose levels are around 9.

This was giving Squiggles 2iu of insulin twice a day. My vet now suggests I put it up to 2.5 iu

 

Hello Lynn & Squiggles welcome.
I have just read through your thread and you seem to be getting very good support from the other UK members,the only addition I can make regarding the wet food is The Happy Kitty Company stock high quality grain free food that they import from Germany,I have been ordering online but if you give them a call they will let you purchase a small amount of a mixed variety to try,the person I deal with is called Sam,ask to speak to her as she is very helpful.the food I have found to be the highest quality,and which Bailey likes is Granatapet the regular and the symphonie.Aine mentioned Natures Menu,that is good quality too.I stopped feeding Bailey Lilys Kitchen,as good as it seemed I have been very uneasy with the Carraggenan that it contains.
Hope this was of some help, regards Diane

 

Hello Diane & thanks for your welcome & all your helpful information xx I'll certainly give the Happy Kitty Company a call & ask if I can buy a small number of the mixed variety of foods you mention.

 

Hi Lynn,

Diane has just recommended Granatapet. That is a meat 'n' jelly type food which should appeal to Squiggles. The Symphonie chicken pure is the best quality food I came across in our food trials. Sadly one of Saoirse's pancreatitis triggers appears to be salmon so I can't feed her the Symphonie chicken (it contains salmon oil supplementation). I'm really disappointed about this because it's an organic - and therefore GMO-free - food and it would have been my first choice if it had agreed with my girl. The quality of the ingredients is excellent.

BTW, according to the Merck manual, the normal fasting BG range for a non-diabetic cat is 4.2-6.7 mmol/L (75-120 mg/dL). My vets advised me that the normal range is 3.9-8.3mmol/L (although they didn't advise whether that was fasting level or included postprandial levels).

 

Check my signature link Glucometer Notes for information on glucose reference values for various meter types and measurement systems, plus some notes on how these work.

 

Thanks Critters Mom, that's very helpful. My vet told me the usual BG level was about 9. but like your vet, she didn't tell me if this was before or after eating.

Just out of interest, I'm sure you've all researched this dry food, & dismissed it as too high on carbohydrate, but as I can't quite work out what the carbohydrate percentage is. what do other people think ?

http://about.royalcanin.co.uk/catalogue/feline-veterinary-diet/diabetic-ds4623792/

 

Thanks BJM I will !

 

This is Squiggles, the first time I ever met her, in an RSPCA rescue shelter. Apparently she was 4 and a half.
" Choose Meeee Please ! "

 

I have a few tuxedos kitties in my home. They are so cute!

 

Squiggles is even more beautiful in the second photo. I am developing the biggest soft spot for your girl: she reminds me very much of Saoirse's brother (no longer with me). I absolutely adored him ... (and I love Saoirse for both of them).

WRT the Royal Canin food, my heartfelt advice would be "Run, don't walk, away from it." I'm firmly convinced that Saoirse's current problems all stem from my having fed her various Royal Canin veterinary diets (as prescribed by our then vet). I would not recommend RC dry foods to anyone.

I was worried that I would not be able to switch Saoirse to an all-wet, low carb diet but she gets no dried food at all now (apart from her freeze-dried protein treats). Finding foods that will agree with Saoirse is tricky because of her pancreatitis (and possible IBD) problems, but now that she's used to the wet she will happily eat the wet foods that agree with her. Overall she is so much healthier since making the switch - coat, body condition, mood, the works. I'd recommend keeping at the changeover with Squiggles. As Dr Lisa indicates on her website, persistence can work. Blitzing up something like Cosma Snackie freeze-dried treats (from Zooplus) into a powder and sprinkling a teensy bit on top of the wet food is a great way to make it more tempting.

 

Thanks for you nice comments about Squiggles Critter Mom & your advice about dry cat bics.

Squiggles back legs seem slightly weak, ( I think it's peripheral neuropathy) .Having read up about it , apparently this can be a result of the glucose levels not being stabilised properly so the nerves are affected & should get better once her blood sugar levels are regulated. Anyway, as you can guess I’m a bit distracted this development this morning & I'm going to ring the vet.

I'll also search about on this board for a peripheral neuropathy thread.

 

I've made an appt with the vet, & am taking squiggles this afternoon to ask about methylcobalamin injections.

 

Methylcobalamin isn't a quick fix, although it helps. You can get it over the counter, just make sure there are no sweeteners of any sort. The dose for neuropathy is 3 mg daily in addition to glucose control.
The vet should check potassium levels as they cause some of the same issues.

 

Hi Lynn,What a lovely photo of Squiggles,she looks adorable,
Just thought it might be of interest to you I have found a new food this weekend,and Bailey is very taken with it! It is called Meowing Heads,and it ticks all the right boxes as far as being very good quality,high meat content,grain free & sugar & preservative free. I picked up a couple of the chicken variety pots at my local pet shop,but I see it is available on the Internet,type I'm Meowing Heads Wet Cat Food.
Aine if you read this thread you might be interested too.

 

Thank you BJM & Diane for your helpful posts. I'll certainly look into them.

I'm back, I made an appt in the end & took Squiggles to the vets . My vet had never heard of cats with diabetes getting peripheral neuropathy & after I had quoted her chapter & verse, I think she wished she hadn't
She also didn't know that Vit B 12 was one of the treatments, but they hadn't got the one in stock that was recommended for diabetic cats, so she gave Squiggs a standard Vit B12 injection.
She didn't seem to keen on ordering the correct one in, so if there is an improvement, I'll suggest she writes me a prescription & I'll get the right one from Pet Meds.
She said I'd taught her something new !

I asked her to check Squiggles potassium level, but she seemed reluctant

BJM is Methylcobalamin an injectable liquid, an oral liquid or a powder ?

 

Hi Lynn,

Presumably your vet gave Squiggles a cyanocobalamin injection. Saoirse had a course of them and they did wonders for her. Saoirse didn't have any marked clinical signs of neuropathy, but she started jumping onto higher surfaces (e.g. windowsill, arms of sofa) again within only a couple of weeks of starting the course of injections, and her standing posture improved noticeably as time went on. To the best of my knowledge, the course of injections is the most effective way to address a newly identified B12 deficiency.

 

I don't see why she wasn't keen on testing potassium levels. You would be asked to pay for it after all! It is a standard test that is done in house. Hopefully squiggles will improve with the b12 but if not it would be worth requesting again as from what I have read low potassium can have implications with regards kidney disease.

Did you discuss the caninsulin and your blood glucose readings?

 

I would be looking for another vet that is willing to work with you.I changed vets 9 months after Bailey was diagnosed,and have never looked back,the only regret is I didn't change sooner,if I had of done Bailey might then have had a chance of going OTJ

 

No Rx needed for methylcobalamin. Just pop over to your local health food store or online and tell them you want without any sweeteners.

 

Thank you once again folks, you're all stars *HUGS* This present vet will be working at the other practise for 2 days a week, so I think I'll go back to seeing the vet I trusted, who's back from maternity leave. The only thing is the poor girl looks shattered

Critters Mom, I think it was cyanocobalamin , she said it should last for a month, but I'm not sure if that's true, anyway I shall investigate everything I've been told on here & go back & tell the vet what I want ! She said she'd got old cat legs, & I said " Don't be daft, she's only 8 and a half ! "

Don't worry Phlika I havn't forgotten about the potassiuum levels & I shall mention them again. I have talked to her about the Caninsulin & glucose levels . Last night because she'd been lethargic we did a blood glucose test & it was 17.1 10 hours after her last shot which is 7 points lower than the last time.

BJM, do you just pierce the methylcobalamin capsule & drip in on their food ? or what's the best way to do it ?

It was cyanocobalamin , I've just checked the receipt.

 

It may come as a tablet, powder with or without capsule, or liquid. Just split it over a couple meals daily to optimise its use; excess goes out via the urine.
You want to find a version with 3-5 mg easily given. Try your local Amazon marketplace.

 

Test
Another member was not able to reply to this thread so I am checking if I can.

Sorry for the interruption!

 

I learned the hardest way how important it is to trust your gut on many things when it comes to caring for your cat. Vets may be experts on medicine, but you are the world authority on your cat's overall bearing, mood and behaviour.
The vets we were registered with when Saoirse presented with FD symptoms gave an initial Dx of "old lady". I didn't buy that either. If you could see the before and after of her, it's amazing what the right diet (species-appropriate, wet, low carb) has done for her. Our main treating vet at the new practice could not get over the change in Saoirse - and how very much younger she looks. Her coat is soft and shiny, all the rusted fur has gone, and her body condition's much better, too. The vet said that if he didn't actually know her age, he would have thought she was years younger than she actually is.

 

Thanks BJM, how long after yesterday's Vit B12 shot is it safe to start giving her the methylcobalamin ?

Critters Mom, I'm beginning to realise how right you all are. Squiggles has rusted fur & it never occurred to me that it was the diabetes !

I'm going to go back to my vet I had before she went on maternity leave, I'm sure I'll work better with her . It would be difficult to move to another practise, we live in a very rural area, & I'd always be worried in the case of an emergency I'd have to drive miles to get vet help. In the past my present practise have been very good when it came to all the problems that my late elderly cats developed.

 

Just letting you know I feel your pain. I'm having to switch vets because my vet no longer supports me home testing, and was downright rude to me. Nipper is up to 5.6U Caninsulin and still peeing everywhere and high most of the day, though she is better than she was at diagnosis. Fortunately I have several vet options in the area.

Please keep us posted on how you're doing. Give Squiggles some fuss for me.

Lori

 

Thank you Lori, that's very kind of you *HUGS* . I'm sorry Nipper hasn't got her diabetes stabilised yet, it must be a great worry for you.

 

You can start giving it now.
The B vitamins are water soluble. If the body doesn't need what has been given, it will be passed out via the kidneys.

 

Thanks BJM

 

Help please ! I can't find any MethylCobalamin without sweeteners on line on UK web sites. I can see them on the Amazon US sites.

Sorry for the bold type , that was a mistake !

 

Try a local health food store. The customer service folks may be able to order you something.

 

I think I've found one BJM

.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pure-Encapsulations-Methylcobalamin-1000-Vcaps/dp/B0017L9N4A

It says it's 1,000 micrograms per capsule Did you day Squiggles would need 3-5 mg twice a day ?
This is what it says about it .

Supplement FactsEach vegetable capsule contains:
Methylcobalamin (vitamin B12) 1,000mcg (16,667%DV)
Other Ingredients: hypo-allergenic plant fiber, vegetable capsule.
Contains NO: dairy, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, sugar, starch, soy, preservatives, hydrogenated oils, hidden coatings, excipients, binders, fillers, shellacs, artificial colors or fragrance.

 

That'd work.
1,000 mcg = 1 mg
You'll need 3-5 capsules per day, spread out over meals.

 

Thank you BJM I've discovered they charge £9.50 to post them from Germany ! Although a large bottle costs the same to post. So if my local health food shop doesn't stock something similar, I'll order them.

I presume I'll have to give them to Squiggles for about 6 months or until she's better.

 

BJM I know it's a compromise, but if I couldn't afford to have those capsules shipped regularly from Germany, would this one be any good ? although I know
it's cobalamin.

http://www.solgar.co.uk/SolgarProducts/Vitamin-B12-500-ug-Vegetable-Capsules.htm

 

The mannitol is a sweetener. Keep looking.

 

OK, BJM we don't have such a good range as you do in the States.

 

Lynn

I researched where to get this supplement somewhat and posted by findings in this thread

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/methylcobalamin.127788/

I ended up buying the zobaline from Canada but am sure that the some of the ones you can get off eBay or in the uk are all fine. Just check with BJM first as she understands the ingredients much more than I do.

In fact just reviewed my thread and this one is available in the UK

http://www.bodykind.com/product/bro...tive-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps.aspx#questions

I think it's okay but someone please double check

 

Phlika , thank you so much, you're a star , *HUGS* I've had a look, & as far as I can see, the ingredients are fine. I'll let BJM check the link over, but those capsules look OK to me.

I'd never thought of buying zobaline from Canada.

 

The Dr's Best methylcobalamin linked to above should be just fine. (I use it for my CRF foster kitty). It's great that this is now available in the UK as the cost of importing Zobaline has become prohibitive.
The dose of the capsules is half that of the Zobaline though, so if you want to get the same dose you'd need to use 2 capsules to get 3mg.

Eliz

 

Hi Lynn,

Just checking in to see how Squiggles and yourself are doing.

 

Thank you Elizabeth, yes it's good that we can get the right Vit B 12 over here now, I'll remember to only use two capsules.

Hello Critter Mom, we're doing alright, she's put on a bit of weight, but I don't want her to get too tubby because of the diabetes & her wobbly legs. It's awful to see her trying to jump up on things, but she can make it onto the sofa & the bed !

 

Hi Lynn. Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear you're both doing OK. I know what you mean about how tough it is to see Squiggles not being able to jump properly. The only time Saoirse showed any obvious signs of weakness was when she tried to jump up onto a windowsill. She didn't make it ... My heart took an express elevator to the basement. :-( We were living in a very small, cramped flat at the time so it was difficult to spot 'missing behaviours'. I only managed to identify that Saoirse must have been experiencing neuropathy-related weakness prior to diagnosis based on how she started jumping up onto the sofa arms, windowsill, and up to her testing station (on a table at the time) as the insulin and B12 started helping her to get better. One of the toughest aspects of being a kitty mom is trying to look after little ones that are masters of deception when they're poorly: they hide their discomfort/symptoms far too well.

 

I know Critter Mom, they do hide their symptoms Looking back over the last week or two I realise she was stopping for rests more often. Also, she has a habit of jumping on the loo lid, then onto the shelf next to the basin & checking to see if there's any water to drink ! It was heart breaking watching her trying to do this. I lifted her up as she sometimes sleeps on the surface next to the wash basin , strange cat ! See pic ( preparing to jump to the next level )

I meant to say I got some Nature's Menu & Applaws wet cat food today, from Pets at Home.

 

Hi Lynn

Love the photo. What a cutie.

Hopefully the switch to wet will help her numbers but whilst she is transitioning it is best to get in a few tests to check she doesn't go too low.

I know I keep harping on about it but if her numbers /symptoms don't improve my advice would be to go back to the other vet and discuss switching to lantus. Or phoning Ruth at the RVC. Please don't think I am getting at you but just want to do the best for you and Squiggles

Which applaws is it?

 

Awwwwww! She is so gorgeous! If the forum software would allow it, I'd give that piccie dozens of Likes! Please can you give her some fusses from me? (Wish we still had the cat_pet_icon.)

I hope she likes the Nature's Menu food. It's good stuff. I look forward to hearing how she gets on with it.

It's a good idea to mix in some extra water with the wet food for urinary tract health. If she needs tempting with the wet foods, it can help to blitz up some freeze-dried treats (e.g. Cosma Snackies) in a food processor or blender and sprinkle a teensy bit of the powdered protein treats on top of the wet food - bit like seasoning on human food.

 

Thanks Phlika, I'll take your advice bout changing insulin if her numbers don't improve. Applaws Tuna & Chicken & turkey I think.

Thanks Critters Mom, good idea about adding water etc to her food.

 

Saoirse developed urinary tract problems in the past (another problem caused by dry food, I now know) so I'm very keen to make sure she pees enough. Ironically, after the oceans of water she drank/peed pre-Dx, when she changed to wet food she stopped drinking from her water bowl completely. So did my civvie.

 

Critter Mom, I've noticed Squiggles is drinking a lot less since she's been on insulin.

She was a little monster this morning, she hid under the hedge out of the rain & wouldn't come inside, & when she finally did & I gave her the insulin injection, she wriggled so much, half of it was wasted

 

Hi Lynn,

The reduction in polydipsia and polyuria (excessive drinking and peeing) are very positive clinical signs that Squiggles BG numbers are improving. If you want to keep an eye on how much water she is drinking, you can measure how much is in her bowl every time you change the water. See the link to Secondary Monitoring Tools in BJ's signature for great tips and techniques. If adding water to food, I find it is useful to use a cook's tablespoon measure. I feed Saoirse meals of about 16-24g in size, and I add about 1-1½ tbsps of water to each meal.

Keep an eye on the avoidance behaviour and record it. It might be an indication that the Caninsulin isn't agreeing with Squiggles. Saoirse used to try very hard to hide at injection time when she was being given Caninsulin. By way of comparison, she felt much better on Lantus and while she didn't enjoy the Lantus injections (Lantus can sting) she didn't go out of her way to try to avoid them. Keeping a log of odd/avoidant behaviours as well as BG data can be invaluable in building a case for getting an Rx for a different insulin under cascade rules in the future should a switch be necessary.