Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Beenie, Nov 29, 2017.
cross posting here...not sure how many view the main forum
Hi Michelle, sorry to hear Ming isn't feeling well. I have a few food suggestions, until someone with some recent experience comes along. It's been a while since I've had issues with a kitty not wanting to eat. Does Ming like canned tuna juice (water)? I've tried adding that on top of food, or crunching up some cat treats. I've tried lunch meat as well, years ago with my late stage CKD kitty. Does Ming like chicken? Maybe boil some and shred it to see if it encourages him to eat. Before I syringe fed, I would take some canned food on my finger tip or small spoon, that sometimes got my kitty started. That's all I can think of, but again, hope additional folks come by to offer more.
Thanks Christine. I do have a can of tuna with water in the house. After that not much I can offer him. I could run to the store and try deli meat..he definitely likes ham or turkey.
I just came out of the bathroom and he threw up acid again. Lip smacking. Not sure if he tries cleaning himself and that's why he's doing it or he's still nauseous which I don't understand why. I don't want to stress him more but I have to clean him more before he can roam the house. I'm giving him another break. I did try giving him some UR wet food (had a few cans left) figured I try something different but so far no luck. Tuna juice will be next
Found another post...see Carla's excellent suggestions in this linked condo, post #30
Sending eating vines to Ming.
Poor Ming. I hope you can get him to eat soon. Here is the list Christie is referring to. Sending prayers.
Do you have any parmesan cheese? If you maybe sprinkle a little of that on her food, she will perhaps eat? usually ondansetron is better for nausea than cerenia but it doesn't hurt to give her the cerenia....it can help.
Can you finger feed her....either see if she will lick food off your finger or will she let you dab some on the front of her tongue or on the roof of her mouth? Just be careful that it's only a small amount and that you don't get it down her throat.
Here's some info Jill often posts when a kitty won't eat:Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:
-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.
-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food
sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- Purebites Duck Liver -- crushed and put on as a topper.
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium
So far what I have in the house has not worked. I just set him up in the upstairs bathroom where there's more room than the half bath downstairs. He has two varieties of wet food, water, towel to lay on and LB. I think the licking of the lips is the reaction to the either then enema liquid residue (soap) and/or the stuff they tried to clean him with. I forgot to tell them to only use warm water not that no rinse garbage. It just makes him foam at the mouth. Still though this has never happened where he hasn't eaten for this long. He last ate 27 hrs ago. Now that he's "cleared out" he typically is looking to eat. I will have to wait till morning and hope that he eats overnight. His autofeeder is in with him now too so fresh food will turn at 12o am and 3:00 am. If he doesn't eat I'll take him to the IM vet's office which is also an ER where I would want another vet to assess.
Do you happen to have slippery elm bark? If I recall I think I used that on my CKD kitty, for anti-nausea?
I don't . Its safe to wait until tomorrow to take action, right? I mean if he doesn't eat anything by morning I will take him to the vet. I tend to panic sometime. I'm paranoid about fatty liver disease.
Ok, I know this sounds weird, but do you have a Turkey baster? I'm a worrier too, so ideally if you could sneak a bit of puréed food in him, if it were me, I'd be happier. Also, maybe elevate the feeder, that can help if he is inclined to eat on his own overnight. That said, I think you're ok till the morning, but I don't have any direct experience
Thanks! I will try and certainly elevate his feeder.
Sending vines for Ming. I don't have any advice since it's sounds like you've tried all the foods/treats in the house at this point, but just wanted to stop and offer a prayer for the nausea to die down and her appetite to return.
No experience in this area, but lots of hugs to you and healing vines to Ming.
We’re at ER vet now. I went to grocery store early this morning and grabbed almost everything I could on @carfurby list to try and entice Ming and nothing worked. Still drippy poo all over bathroom. I did line the floor with wee wee pads so that helps with clean up.
What prompted the ER vet visit instead of my regular vet was I didn’t want to wait any longer as Ming lastly threw up watery poo ☹️
They’re getting records from my vet now
So sorry you had to go to the ER, but I hope they can sort out Ming and she's back to her old self again really soon!
Love light and healing
Thanks everyone. I certainly wasn’t expecting to be back at an ER vet after going through everything with Beenie.
I’m a tad stressed but Ming is in good hands here. Still waiting but dr is going to review records (recent BW and xray), speak to my regular vet and decide on a treatment plan. Depends on records I suppose. ER vet did say Ming is dehydrated so that will have to be addressed too. He wants to make sure there are no underlying medical issues we might be missing. They’re very thorough here
Rosie has struggled with constipation for a long time. I hope this is a simple problem and quickly resolved for you and Ming. In the event this becomes an ongoing issue for you, I wanted to offer a few suggestions based on what we have learned. ECID, but if it helps:
Read as much as you can - great reference is felineconstipation.org
Learn the difference between managing a chronic condition and treating an acute crisis
Ask your vet to teach you how to feel the abdomen to differentiate normal vs abnormal. Abnormal for Rosie feels like a handful of rocks.
Work with your vet to determine the best home treatments - they can be less stressful for both you and Ming. Rosie has received supplemental fluids and also enemas at home. I have given fluids previously for CKD, but I didn't understand how important hydration is to "keep things moving".
Glad you are able to get Ming the care she needs. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be back at the emergency vet so soon.
Thank you for the info. They are keeping him overnight. He has a lot backed up in him and the ER vet wanted to keep him on an IV to get lots of fluids in him, anti nausea meds, syringe feed, and do at least two more enemas. I will then continue with Miralax at home once he's all cleared out and will do a follow up appointment with the IM vet that saw Beenie and figure out the best home remedy's for Ming. Will likely slowly change the wet food from FF to something a little healthier and has fiber in it too. His bloodwork came back good. BUN was slightly elevated but he felt that was likely due to dehydration. He said he's seen worse (based on xray) and wouldn't necessarily give him a megacolon diagnosis but following up with the IM vet who probably make that determination.
I've tried everything & the only thing to get Bronx going is Lactulose. Prayers for Ming
More prayers for Ming and for you!
Sending vines and prayers for Ming. I hope the ER vet can find the solution to his problem.
Hang in there and try to get some sleep tonight.
Thank you everyone
I spoke to the ER vet early evening after Ming got his enema and he said he was doing well but was a little concerned that he wasn't able to get the "syringe", I forgot what he called it, as far up into the rectum like he usually can. Even in a constipated kitty. He said it could be a very hard stool but it could be something else. He said he would see how he does overnight and go from there. He indicated that he may need an ultra sound or a colonoscopy. Not sure how a colonoscopy in performed on a cat if you can't get them to do what humans do as far as the clean out the night before.
I hope that this is just a hard poop. My heart and stomach can not take any bad news here. I did sleep like a rock last night from sheer mental exhaustion so at least I slept but I somehow still feel tired.
I spoke to a nurse early this morning and she said he was resting well. He wouldn't eat on his own and they did syringe feed him and he did well with that. I hope that he's just so nervous he won't eat for them. He's never been a big eater, could care less for treats. He did get a second enema overnight, so that makes three enemas since Wednesday afternoon. Seems crazy if that doesn't get it all out, @Girlie's mom did Girlie ever have to get multiple enemas to clear her out??
So now I wait and hope they call with good news. I just hope he's all better and no more liquid is leaking out of him so he can just come home, cuddle and rest.
Hoping for just a hard poop! Hope they call you with good news soon!
I hope it turns out to be just poop. Sending prayers.
Praying for a good report on Ming ... and peace for your kitty momma heart
An impaction of a rock hard stool cannot be penetrated by an enema syringe. Before a colonoscopy or any other diagnostic tool, other than x-rays, is performed, a manual evacuation, under anesthesia needs to be done, and quickly. What do the xrays show?
By the way, when watery poo is vomited, it means that the stools are pushing upward into the stomach, because they can no longer clear the stool impaction , and go downward, and out the descending colon. The most likely diagnosis is that a impaction of rock hard stool is the problem. X-rays can confirm this.
Looking for tumors or whatever delays treatment. This kind of blockage is an emergency, as you realized. X-rays to identify the poop are in order - several views should be taken. Then the manual evacuation should be done.It does take a good surgeon to do this. Do they have anyone there who is confident enough to do the manual evacuation?
I just got off the phone with the on staff ER vet. The manual removal was done by my regular vet but that was at the rectum. The vomiting of the liquid poop definitely could've been a back up like you said. The xray from yesterday did show fecal matter in the ascending and transverse colon. The ER vet wanted to try and get that moving along with IV fluids and enemas overnight. Follow up xray this morning showed it worked. So that part is good. I gave them permission to do an ultra sound to see if there is some kind of mass that prevented the rubber tip from enema going up from yesterday. They're trying to rule out any underlying causes of constipation.
I conveyed that I don't want to be faced with a kitty coming home in the same condition with watery poo leaking out of Ming. She agreed and will work to get it resolved but its not unusual after an enema. So first we'll see what the ultra sound shows. Any further diagnostic procedure she said can wait and be ordered by the IM vet once we get that appointment scheduled. Oh and she did recommend another special bloodpanel (gastrointestinal panel I think she said) to check B12 levels and could identify if it were pancreatitis, IBD, etc.
Thank you for the info though. My gut said it was an emergency and it certainly was. I just can't wrap my head around this is even happening right now. I hope it was just a hard poop that prevented the rubber tip and I can just work with the IM vet on a diet and supplement that will work for Ming. What I was doing was working I thought but I may stop egg yolk powder and AVJ and just stick to Miralax. The egg yolk powder and AVJ are the relatively new stuff in the mix and maybe its not for Ming...IDK
I'm glad that the fecal matter is gone. I wrote at length, because I wondered if the docs at the ER might be looking for something more unusual than a simple impaction of stools. The tests being run now may help you prevent this from happening again.
You might enjoy this:
Zebra is the American medical slang for arriving at an exotic medical diagnosis when a more commonplace explanation is more likely.It is shorthand for the aphorism coined in the late 1940s by Dr. Theodore Woodward, professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, who instructed his medical interns: "When you hear hoof beats, think of horses not zebras".Since horses are common in Maryland while zebras are relatively rare, logically one could confidently guess that an animal making hoof beats is probably a horse.
Thinking of you. It's very hard to have a second kitty be unwell so soon after your sugar kitty earns her wings. I am sending massive healing vines for Ming.
Both endoscopy and colonoscopy can be done with overnight fast. Kitties GI tracts are much faster at processing food than ours are.
It's the Texas (TAMU) GI Panel - good idea.
Miralax is what I use, and it works well. Getting the correct dose requires experimenting though. At first I gave too much so mooshy stools. Then too little, and had to resort to lactulose to get the poop out of TiTi. What I'd love to know is what is causing the constipation. She hasn't any masses/tumors anywhere in her colon. For 8 years she was perfectly normal. She was never constipated until she developed diabetes. It would be great if the vets can figure out what's causing Ming's constipation.
Anyway, you're doing everything right. It could be that this is a one off.
Hugs and purrs for you and Ming.
I'm typing this with tears running down my face. I can't even believe what is happening. The ER vet called and the ultrasound indicates thickening of the colon wall, 3x the normal size indicating it could be colon cancer but she thinks likely lymphoma. Ming would have to get a colonoscopy to biopsy. Right now she's going to get a chest xray to make sure nothing is shown there. Would be unusual but have to check. They may keep him another night and give a few rounds of some med that starts with an M to stop the leaky poo. She's going to call me back in a little while.
I'm numb right now. I just don't believe this. She said it if is lymphoma it is treatable and I made the appointment to see the IM vet on Tuesday morning who will ultimately weight the options with me. Ming is my love and he sleeps with me every night. I can't , I just can;t
Michelle , I am so sorry you and Ming are going thru this . Many prayers being sent ur way , that a good report can still come
((((Michelle)))) I am so, so sorry. The biopsy via colonoscopy is the way to find out what is really happening. Cats with small cell lymphoma (both Neko and civie Theo had it), can go into remission and live years with it. It's a very slow moving disease. Treatment is daily prednisolone and chemo, the newest protocol has it given once every two weeks. Cats tolerate it fairly well, some show nausea but that can be treated with ondansetron.
Really?? So I may get to keep my baby Ming. I'm so happy to read this. I hope that is all it is. Are they checking the chest to make sure cancer is not there too?
Don't know why the chest X-ray, maybe just to make sure there is nothing else. Or, they could be checking his heart. Neko had a heart condition which meant she had to take budesonide instead of pred.
M med, is that metronidazole?
yes that's it.
Sending more prayers.
I hope it's very treatable rather it's cancer or something else. A friend of mine's cat has cancer and she gives him chemo in the form of a pill, you wouldn't even know he has cancer. It's been a couple of years since diagnosis, I'm not sure if he still gets chemo, but he's still living his life enjoying being a cat.
Hope you have your Ming to cuddle with you again very soon (sans leaky poo).
What a nightmare for you. I'm so sorry this is happening.
But what the others have said is true. lymphoma is a highly treatable condition, and many cats live with it for years. Hugs purrs prayers.
PS: have you got a photo of Ming that you can share with us?
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and Ming. Prayers that whatever is going on with Ming is treatable. Sending tons of healing vines.
Thank you all so much!! I really appreciate the support and I really need it. This is definitely a numbing experience. I do to hope its just a treatable condition, even a treatable cancer. I never imagined Ming's bad constipation bout would turn into this. I should be picking him up tomorrow mid morning and have the IM vet appointment set for Tuesday at 11:30am. I can NOT wait to snuggle with him.
Here's my Ming Ming as a kitten
And today my snuggle monkey
Michelle, I'm just at a loss..I can't even imagine , we're here for you, and hoping for the best possible outcome, lots of healing vines for Ming...hugs for you
Ming! What an adorable face!
Ming is so beautiful. Michelle, sending vines and love and prayers to you and Ming (and DH and Buddy) tonight.
I'm so sorry, I was hoping it was just megacolon. You've received a lot of encouraging advice. I hope it's something you can buy a little more time with!
I just spoke to the nurse at the hospital, Ming is doing good. He ate finally. They gave him some canned kitten food. At first she said he only took a couple of licks then half hour later he finished the rest. She said she's been on since 8pm last night and no more leaky tushy.
She said if I don't hear from them by 10 am to call. She said the next round of docs come in at 7:30-8:00 am and have to get reports on the patients from overnight docs then do their own exam of the patients before they get released. I can't wait to pick him up!!!
I'm so glad Ming ate and the leaking has stopped. I'm sure he'll be glad to see you too. Sending prayers.
Oh my goodness. Sending tons and tons of hugs and get-well soon wishes. My heart breaks for you having to go through this. I pray that Ming is on the road to recovery and you get some answers from the IM doc. Good that the leaks have ceased and eating has started again.
Give Ming scritches and kisses from us here in Texas.
Prayers upon prayers upon hugs Hoping for good report for dear Ming and peace for your heart , Michelle Enough is enough and it is WAY past time for some good news !!!!!
Michelle, I'm so sorry I didn't catch up on your post until now! It's just awful that you're having to cope with this now. But you are strong! I hope a treatment plan is developed so you and sweet Ming can spend many more years enjoying each other's company.
When it rain it pours , but you have had at least a hurricane. So sorry you are having all these problems and heart ache. Hoping all the best and healing vines for Ming and your family.
Thank you for all the healing vines and support. Ming is home with us now. He was certainly out of sorts as expected for a little while. After about an hour or so he jumped in my lap, purred, and fell asleep. We snuggled and napped together...so happy
So I was sent home with Metronidazole and Cerenia and we have the IM vet appointment scheduled for Tuesday. We'll figure out when we can schedule the colonoscopy but the other monkey wrench is we have a vacation booked 12/14 thru 12/22 so I'm hoping they say we can wait until right when we get back and get down to business and treat Ming.
He's currently snuggled in a blanket fast alseep.
Glad he is home. Sending vet vines for his appt on Tues. I hope you are able to get away and enjoy your vacation without to much worrying.
Yeah! So glad that Ming is home with you and snuggled up warm and safe!
I'm glad Ming is home and you got some snuggles. Sending prayers.
So happy Ming is home with you!
At home and snuggles ...a perfect way to end this day Continued prayers for healing and full health to sweet Ming
He’s happy and right now this bean is too
Aaawww. Precious. Enjoy your snuggles and purrs.
Sleep well tonight.
This calls for a happy ending, to this kitty illness.
Amen and amen
Oh Michelle! Sorry, I've been off for a few days - work stress and now battling a flu that I refuse to succomb to.
I haven't read everything so far, so I'm not up on all the details, so forgive me if I'm throwing out things that have already been discussed and vetoed! Girlie started out so constipated that she had to be put to sleep to have a major enema to clear her out: not sure how they did that and not sure I want to know! Since then we've been having ongoing constipation issues as you know. We were using Miralax with AM/PM food and Cisapride (for motility) - liquid, compounded, am/pm. That went well for a while, but getting the balance right was tough. And lately I think the Miralax upset her tummy - either that or it was underlying pancratitis that's not yet pancreatitis (no firm word on the vet with that). She's also been nauseated lately; Cerenia helped, as did Ondansetron wafers, but I haven't got that combo right yet either!
Girlie's a senior lady (18 yo), so that compounds issues; not sure how old Ming is?
Girlie would vomit if she'd been straining at the litterbox and nothing happened; stinky, awful vomit. Actually smelled like poo ... poor thing.
I can tell you that she would go from being nauseated, not eating, and not moving much and clearly unwell t0 having the Microlax enema - getting it all out quickly in her case - and then eating voraciously and running out to the garden!
So constipation can really make them lose their appetite and feel tremendously unwell. The Microlax enemas do the trick for her, though, and so I've had to resort to those lately with the combo of constipation, nausea, and leaky poo.
OH NO!!! I just read about the lymphoma diagnosis. Oh Michelle! This is just too soon and too hard after your recent loss...
Look - I feel awful, but I have to go to a meeting. I will check in later. Sending lots and lots of hugs ... you will get through this, and so will Ming.
How is Ming? I hope okay - and I hope you are all okay, too.
Thanks for checking in on us We're doing good. Ming is back to his ol self. He's eating just fine, playing, purring, tons of cuddles
We see the IM vet later this morning so I'll post once we see her and find out a little more info on how we are to proceed. I assume she'll also recommend the colonoscopy with biopsy. We should have the maldigestion BW panel results back too, which by the way was crazy expensive. Far exceeded the cost of MSU testing for Beenie
I hope the vetty visit goes well and you get a plan in pace for Ming. Sending prayers.
Prayers for a good report from vet on Ming , Michelle
Wishing you all the luck and vines in the world for vet visit today, Michelle!
Vetty vine and a for both of you.
Sending vines for a good Vet visit.
Oh, I am so, so glad to hear that Ming is back to his old self - that's wonderful, Michelle! Have you been able to get some sleep?
I wonder if these beloved cats of ours have any idea of the lengths we go to for them? I have to admit: I've eaten a lot of baked beans since Girlie was diagnosed with diabetes. But I've comforted myself with lots of brownies, as well - they fortify the spirit on those late nights, of course, so they are a necessity of life - even though my clothes are getting a bit tight because of it.
Hugs and hugs and hugs and good, healing vines for you and Mr Ming. I look forward to hearing what the vet says.
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