Hi from me and Molly, any advice please

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sue Hammond, Oct 4, 2017.

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  1. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Man when this cat bounces she really likes to stay up there and look at the clouds!
     
  2. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    You know Janet I am no expert at dosing but my gut feeling also said maybe start all over again from 1u as the right dose might be actually lower than we think..
     
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  3. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    This group chat thread, is literally saving my sanity, I really appreciate all your help and patience, and so does Molly I'm sure, as I'm beginning to feel much calmer about the whole thing x
     
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  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's a good feeling to not feel alone.... And wonderful to have a community where you can work out problems by bouncing (sorry there's that "b" word again) ideas off each other.
     
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  5. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sue, you stayed up all night? Life is grand! I was also up with my head between two pillows, Noah missed his shot because I don't have a back-up human. The rest of you are wonderful for staying with a friend all night.
     
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  6. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I made it till 4am to do another test, then couldn't stay up any longer, so called it a night
     
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  7. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It's my duty as a loyal subject of the Crown to help you! My wife is Scottish-Irish and we had a Border Collie. Thinking about changing my last name to hers. I feel no cultural connection to wooden shoes or Lederhosen, I know where and what Sandhurst is and I've owned 4 Minis, the real ones. Watch this; sacked, nicked, lorry, torch, tyre, aerodrome! I spoke English!
     
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  8. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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  9. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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  10. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's +5 bg is 9.2,. Was 5.4 pre shot this morning, and she's eaten since breakfast about an hour ago
     
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  11. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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  12. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I thought so too, I'll do another test in a few hours
     
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  13. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Looking good! She might need a dose this evening but let's wait to see how the rest of the day pans out... she might stay in single figures but she might shoot up again... be prepared for anything with this game!
     
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  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow not bad! Go MOLLY!
     
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  15. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I live in hope, but nothing would surprise me, it's certainly much harder to control than human diabetes which my late husband had, that's for sure
     
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  16. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think the two of you are on your way! You've both been great and we're the lucky ones to have you here. Live long and prosper!
    "Damm it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a brick layer". :rolleyes:
     
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  17. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    I was going to say exactly the same! Things are looking promising but please be open for anything because it might happen and will take you back to square one..:banghead:
    We are all rooting for you and Molly of course.!:cat:
     
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  18. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'm prepared Monica, nothing will surprise me with this horrible illness...Fingers crossed it ends up a good day xxx
     
  19. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'm living in hope it turns out to be a good day, but also prepared for it not to be, fingers and everything else crossed xx
     
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  20. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Well there must be something in the air today Sue, we finally got some yellow numbers ourselves as well which I’m quite pleased about..:)
     
  21. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    That's great Monica, let's hope it stays that way
     
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  22. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Yeeeeeeesssssss! See, I thought you two would be a good influence on each other lol!
     
  23. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Alrighty Sue, you have the dark green section now and less lime green covering your SS unnecessarily :D. Fixed a couple tiny formatting details too so everything should work fine now :). I removed myself from editing abilities too. If you need help again, I can always request access again :bighug:.
     
  24. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    We must be sending good vibes to each other Monica xx
     
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  25. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    That's very kind of you, thank you so much for your help xxx
     
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  26. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    If Molly's BG stays below 10, should I not give any insulin....It's been in the 9's the last two tests, she's due her shot at 9pm
     
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  27. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    No insulin if she's below 10! But post again with her 9pm number and we'll see what's what then.
    This is a great run - either the previous dose has lasted a nice long time, or Molly only needs a small dose in future... or, as we've said, everything could change, so it's a matter of taking one cycle at a time.
     
  28. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I was expecting a higher number tbh, just hoping the 9pm one is low too
     
  29. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Gutted, her 9pm BG was 24.2 ☹️☹️ shall I stick to 1 5u for tonight?
     
  30. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Damn! :( Oh well at least she had a good day..
     
  31. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear. She finally ran out of insulin..but take heart, that was a really good run. Looks like she needs maybe 1.5u tonight - tempted to say 1u but that may not do enough at this number. @JanetNJ @Yong @Elizabeth and Bertie any thoughts?
     
  32. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I was thinking 1.5 as well
     
  33. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    On the other hand maybe she could start afresh from 1u and take it from there higher or lower if needed?
     
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  34. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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  35. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    You can only try either 1u or 1.5u and see what they do. It's true, starting afresh at 1u would give us a clearer picture and the results would determine what direction to go in. Countering that is that 24.6 is pretty high and 1u might not last long... although it could. It is all pure trial and error. Even if you fed your spreadsheet into a computer and asked it what to do, the amswer might not turn out to be correct. Bear in mind that these are still early days -it might not feel like it but you have to be prepared for the long haul... but with luck you'll start getting somewhere soon.
    BTW did Molly eat between that nice yellow 14.9 and the 24.2 wo hours later? If so could be a food spike.
     
  36. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Yes she had a little food...shall I give 1u then and see what tomorrow brings
     
  37. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you feel happiest with. 1u should be safe and let you get some sleep tonight!
     
  38. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'll do 1, and see the results tomorrow morning, thank you for your help
     
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  39. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Don't be discouraged by the high number, Sue. It happens.... :bighug:
    What exactly are you feeding Molly at the moment?
    .
     
  40. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I think one unit is the right choice. A lower dose may stop those numbers bouncing around. And hopefully you'll get some good sleep....
    .
     
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  41. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    No she went back to her usual ps number but at least went down daytime so that’s an improvement for us right now, although still didn’t go low enough. I think it’s time for another increase tomorrow if the ProZinc experts approve ..
     
  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you are trying the 1 unit. I think a good "do over" for a few days will show us needed missing data because we haven't seen her at the starting dose. It can always be raised if need be.
     
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  43. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    She's having Mac's, very low carb wet food
     
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  44. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oh no, that's a shame, but like you said, we both had pretty good numbers today up until tonight x
     
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  45. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's BG this morning 24.9 , so given 1u to see how she goes, I have to go out so can't do another test until late...Just wondering what bg test kit you all use, I use a human one, I just wondered if alphatrak pet one is better, or more accurate x
     
  46. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    We use Accu-Chek Performa Nano - quick reliable and small blood sample needed. So far it's been ok although I get annoyed with it often as it doesn't show the numbers I want to see!o_O
    Never wondered about changing it to a pet one, will be interested to hear what the others will say..
     
  47. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'm thinking about buying a new one because I've heard the pet ones are more accurate, and also the test strips for the one I have at the moment are getting harder to find, as it's quite old, it was my late husband's, and he had it for years
     
  48. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Pet meters...hmm. Some people use them because that's what their vet tells them to use (if they support home testing at all) because they are deemed to be "more accurate". But the vast majority of people here use human meters which are absolutely fine, and test strips are much cheaper (pet meter strips cost a fortune). The important thing is to stick to one or the other, and not use both types at different times and post a mixture of readings in your spreadsheet... sounds an obvious thing not to do but it has been known and just muddies the already muddy waters even further.

    But as you say your meter is quite old and strips are hard to find, then yes - why not invest in a shiny new human meter. Monica's sounds as good as any.
     
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  49. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I think I will get a new one, are there any in particular you would recommend,
     
  50. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'll have a scout round for the one you use x
     
  51. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I think the one Monica uses is for sale in Boots for around £25 including probably ten strips. You may find it slightly cheaper, I don't know. One of the things to be aware of when choosing a meter is availability/cost of strips - the pet meter ones could be as much as £1 each but human meter ones much less. Unless you have pet insurance that covers these supplies, you may want to shop around. Many people here buy their strips from ebay - as long as you check to make sure the seller is reputable you should be ok.
     
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  52. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I love my pet meter.... I use an Alphatrak. That being said, the strips are about 2-3x more expensive then most human meters. It is worth the trade off to me but if the cost were an issue I would get a human meter. What you want to look for its a meter that takes a tiny 0.3 sample size.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  53. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks Janet x
     
  54. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks Diana
     
  55. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I don't think 1u is enough looking at her spreadsheet, but I'll keep it at 1 for the next day or two
     
  56. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the 1.0U did well. Don't be disheartened as she is probably still bouncing from the green the other morning. As Eliz stated, a lower dose can sometimes help them balance out. Definitely keep getting those before bed tests, the majority of kitties run lower overnight for an idiopathic reason :rolleyes:. Also, as Diana stated, most of us use human meters because strips are more affordable. I do have an AT2 as well but I mainly use it if I'm doing a curve or I get a low number and my boy is acting fine. He'll still get a snack but it helps me from over carbing him :cat: but I have learned how he responds, which is not to say another kitty will do the same. Our other saying is "know they cat" :).

    Have you considered purchasing syringes to draw the insulin from the pen cartridge? I'm sure Eliz, Diana, and Monica can help you find some :).
     
  57. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I had some syringes from my vet when the cartridge stock had run out, but they only go up in 0.5u so might as well stick to the Vetpen, I've looked for them, but nowhere does it say they can be used with Caninsulin, Caninsulin ones only seem to go up in 0.5u, i don't know where I can get the right ones....This is all really beginning to stress me out....It's so up and down all the time, yet a couple of weeks ago during the day it was pretty steady. And also the +3 am tests as well...
     
  58. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    All this bouncing up and down, surely can't be any good for her?
     
  59. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    well that's why we suggested lowering the dose for a few days to stop the bouncing. then we can HOPEFULLY get the preshots down a little and reevaluate the dose.
     
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  60. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks Janet, I'll keep it at 1u and see how she goes
     
  61. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Strange readings this morning. Molly's amps was 13.1, gave her 1u, and her + 4bg was 18.1...?
     
  62. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Not wildly strange... she was probably rising at amps anyway, and I'm guessing you have fed her since that test, so a smallish rise isn't overly alarming... but do whatever tests you can for the rest of the day so we can see the fuller picture.
     
  63. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    She had breakfast but nothing since 9am
     
  64. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    We still need more data though to see if the 1u on a rising bg will hold her reasonably steady or whether she will zoom up high again... one or two numbers in isolation don't give as much info as more during a full cycle.
     
  65. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I'll do regular tests throughout the day
     
  66. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Hi Sue, for some reason I din't get any notifications for the latest comments, good thing I wanted to check on you anyway..
    Interesting yellow AMPS this morning but did not go down much at all mid cycle last two days.. Again I am all too familiar with this, similar thing happened to Josie on many occasions.
    We are all so eager to find a pattern in Molly's response to the insulin but it might not happen, she might just carry on giving us random readings in the mix for no apparent reason..

    You are concerned that 'all this bouncing is surely not good for her' which is true, it is not ideal but it's mainly for cats bouncing over a long period of time.
    I know it's hard to watch them being in high numbers as I've been there too, but it's important to hold the dose for a few days to eliminate the bounce if there is one and give the numbers a chance to flatten out. Then you can see more clearly whether it's the right dose or needs adjusting.
    For the first time in weeks Josie got some beautiful blues mid cycle today which was a very nice surprise but sadly pmps shot right up into the reds so I have my own bouncing to deal with at the moment as well..:banghead:
    Hang in there, we'll get through this together bounce buddy!:)

    As for meters yes I am very happy with our Accu Chek and we find it very convenient that we can just to go to Boots and take the box of strips off the shelves whenever we are running out of them. ( and we seem to be going through a crazy amount! )
    Then again luckily we have Pet Insurance through Tesco and they pay for most of Josie's meds and supplies at the moment..
     
  67. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Banging heads is right, it's really getting me down, but we'll carry on with 1u and see how we get on. Glad you had some good numbers today xx...Bounce buddies, I like that
     
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  68. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Caninsulin is a U-40 insulin. You can order U-40 syringes with half unit markings online :).
    Here's a link to the one's I used with a U-40 insulin: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/16363/carepoint-vet-u-40-syringe-29g-half-unit

    ETA: Just remembered you are in the UK. Ignore that link :facepalm:. @Elizabeth and Bertie or @Diana&Tom should be able to help you with places better than I ;).
     
  69. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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  70. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Omg this chick. So a new member came in whose cat was just diagnosed that day and prescribed 5 units to start. So gayle and I were saying how that's not safe. I put a link to fdmb and she's like don't put any references to fdmb and how that group is not helpful. And I'm like Seriously? Ok I need to leave this group then. And I got out of there. Crazy! Wth is her problem? She must have had a personal problem with someone. Lol. Crazy.
     
  71. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thank you D
    Thanks very much for your help x
     
  72. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Gayle is not helpful at all, and just ends up making owners, myself included feel very bad, she actually said to me I will end up killing Molly if I don't get her Diabetes under control, she was also extremely rude
     
  73. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Yes that page is best avoided.
     
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  74. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Well I don't know what's going on again with Mollys bg, the last two days, she has been in the pinks section, this morning she's in the dark green 5.5 bg, so I'm not giving insulin this morning... have a look at her spreadsheet, see if anyone can work out what's going on, I'm sure I haven't a clue.... Nothing has changed in regard to diet, still feeding Mac's low carb wet food..
     
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  75. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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  76. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Huh, interesting. Well it does show that the 1 unit was def enough. Maybe her pancreas is kicking in a bit on its own. Could mean a slightly lower dose might be the answer. I know you can't do 0.75 yet, but you could try.5 for a few days and see what happens. it may help even out the numbers so you get two shootable numbers instead of one high and one low.
     
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  77. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Hi Janet, won't giving just .5 give her higher results throughout the day? I still don't really understand how all this works,
     
  78. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    She's also losing a little weight, as she was/ is still overweight, so maybe that's reflecting in her bg results? X
     
  79. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Was she overweight?
     
  80. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Right now when you do 1 unit it was too low to shoot in the morning. I'm wondering if the dose is lowered a little if by morning it's only a yellow number rather then green, it can be shootable..... Therefore bringing the overall preshots down. Balancing out the preshots rather then having her boomerang from high to low. You could continue with the one unit a few more days if you want to see what happens. This is just an idea. It's all trial and error.
     
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  81. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Her bg +3 is 7.8, and that's 3 hours after breakfast x
     
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  82. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Yes she was, still is, but it's coming off slowly ...She's a very big cat in size though, not just extra weight, she weighs 5.5 kg
     
  83. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    So give 0.5 at night and see how that goes?
     
  84. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Janet.
    I think Miss Molly's pancreas is maybe pulsing out some insulin intermittently. That is a good sign if that's the case....
    .
     
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  85. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oh gosh!! I really hope so x
     
  86. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's + 6 is 10.0 bg, an hour after eating so doing quite well so far today
     
  87. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Awesome!!!
     
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  88. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's BG tonight 20.1, should I still give 1u .....I'm a bit later than normal as had to nip out xx
     
  89. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    I thought it best stick to 1u, hope I did the right thing
     
  90. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    That's perfectly fine. :)
     
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  91. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Molly's bg this morning 20.1, can I ask why this keeps happening, up one morning and throughout the day, the next low in the morning, and good reading for most of the day apart from evenings, she has been on the same food
     
  92. Monica & Josie

    Monica & Josie Member

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    Hello bounce buddy, just looked at your SS, with these numbers I'm not surprised you still haven't been able to figure out how all this works!:)

    I'm sorry, sadly I don't have an explanation for you but your SS just got me thinking and I just wanted to say that with such various preshot numbers like Molly's, her case is the perfect example of why it is so important that you are testing her every time to see whether it is safe to shoot or not and how good it is that you are doing all these important tests! Many people don't know they should they just shoot kitty with the same dose every day cos their vet told them to...

    I don't think you said before why your vet refuses to prescribe ProZinc? I'm just curious.
    Also I think I asked you before but not sure if you replied, has Molly had any recent bloodwork done to eliminate any underlying issues that might influence her fluctuating readings?
     
  93. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    I think as Janet and Elizabeth have suggested, there could be some pancreas activity going on which would explain the fluctuating readings. In such a case all you can do really is keep monitoring and trying to dose appropriately (much easier said than done I know). It may be that with time, numbers will even out more which would enable you to be more confident with a "usual" dose. And I echo what Monica has said as I've been typing - this is the perfect example of why testing is so important. You're doing that and keeping Molly safe which is the main thing. Sadly there is no quick fix for a lot of cats with FD, it is an ongoing labour of love to be watchful and just do the best we can on a day to day basis.
     
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  94. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Thanks everyone, I would never give shots without testing first.. My vet and the nurse said there's no need to test at all, i was shocked they could even suggest such a thing...She has had full blood work done a couple of weeks ago, with nothing abnormal found....Is it best to stick to 1u for the next few days. I find it very bewildering that sometimes her amps has been only 5.5 and stayed pretty good (for her) throughout the day... 7.8bg+3 and 10+6, then shot up to 20.1...My husband was insulin dependent diabetic, and I must say looking after humans s relatively easy, compared to our fur babies
     
  95. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

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    Oct 4, 2017
    Ok, so +3 bg is 10.3 after giving 1u at 9am...+6 bg is 11.3
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  96. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Hi all, Molly is all over the place again, her bg pre shot was 14.3, now +3 it's 24.1.. yesterday was the same more or less.. started 11.6, and rose to +3 19.9bg
     
  97. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Can I also ask how long you can keep insulin for once it's started to be used...I've seen 28 days, is that correct?.... If that's the case, a lot is going to be wasted
     
  98. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
     
  99. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    The syringes I have been sent are 0.5 which is the same doses as the pens, I thought they had 0.25 doses...Are there any with that dose
     
  100. Sue Hammond

    Sue Hammond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    These are the ones sent
     

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