Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sue Hammond, Oct 4, 2017.
Man when this cat bounces she really likes to stay up there and look at the clouds!
You know Janet I am no expert at dosing but my gut feeling also said maybe start all over again from 1u as the right dose might be actually lower than we think..
This group chat thread, is literally saving my sanity, I really appreciate all your help and patience, and so does Molly I'm sure, as I'm beginning to feel much calmer about the whole thing x
It's a good feeling to not feel alone.... And wonderful to have a community where you can work out problems by bouncing (sorry there's that "b" word again) ideas off each other.
Sue, you stayed up all night? Life is grand! I was also up with my head between two pillows, Noah missed his shot because I don't have a back-up human. The rest of you are wonderful for staying with a friend all night.
I made it till 4am to do another test, then couldn't stay up any longer, so called it a night
It's my duty as a loyal subject of the Crown to help you! My wife is Scottish-Irish and we had a Border Collie. Thinking about changing my last name to hers. I feel no cultural connection to wooden shoes or Lederhosen, I know where and what Sandhurst is and I've owned 4 Minis, the real ones. Watch this; sacked, nicked, lorry, torch, tyre, aerodrome! I spoke English!
Molly's +5 bg is 9.2,. Was 5.4 pre shot this morning, and she's eaten since breakfast about an hour ago
I thought so too, I'll do another test in a few hours
Looking good! She might need a dose this evening but let's wait to see how the rest of the day pans out... she might stay in single figures but she might shoot up again... be prepared for anything with this game!
Wow not bad! Go MOLLY!
I live in hope, but nothing would surprise me, it's certainly much harder to control than human diabetes which my late husband had, that's for sure
I think the two of you are on your way! You've both been great and we're the lucky ones to have you here. Live long and prosper!
"Damm it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a brick layer".
I was going to say exactly the same! Things are looking promising but please be open for anything because it might happen and will take you back to square one..
We are all rooting for you and Molly of course.!
I'm prepared Monica, nothing will surprise me with this horrible illness...Fingers crossed it ends up a good day xxx
I'm living in hope it turns out to be a good day, but also prepared for it not to be, fingers and everything else crossed xx
Well there must be something in the air today Sue, we finally got some yellow numbers ourselves as well which I’m quite pleased about..
That's great Monica, let's hope it stays that way
Yeeeeeeesssssss! See, I thought you two would be a good influence on each other lol!
Alrighty Sue, you have the dark green section now and less lime green covering your SS unnecessarily . Fixed a couple tiny formatting details too so everything should work fine now . I removed myself from editing abilities too. If you need help again, I can always request access again .
We must be sending good vibes to each other Monica xx
That's very kind of you, thank you so much for your help xxx
If Molly's BG stays below 10, should I not give any insulin....It's been in the 9's the last two tests, she's due her shot at 9pm
No insulin if she's below 10! But post again with her 9pm number and we'll see what's what then.
This is a great run - either the previous dose has lasted a nice long time, or Molly only needs a small dose in future... or, as we've said, everything could change, so it's a matter of taking one cycle at a time.
I was expecting a higher number tbh, just hoping the 9pm one is low too
Gutted, her 9pm BG was 24.2 ☹️☹️ shall I stick to 1 5u for tonight?
Damn! Oh well at least she had a good day..
Oh dear. She finally ran out of insulin..but take heart, that was a really good run. Looks like she needs maybe 1.5u tonight - tempted to say 1u but that may not do enough at this number. @JanetNJ @Yong @Elizabeth and Bertie any thoughts?
I was thinking 1.5 as well
On the other hand maybe she could start afresh from 1u and take it from there higher or lower if needed?
@Monica Lewis did your kitty stay lower today ?
You can only try either 1u or 1.5u and see what they do. It's true, starting afresh at 1u would give us a clearer picture and the results would determine what direction to go in. Countering that is that 24.6 is pretty high and 1u might not last long... although it could. It is all pure trial and error. Even if you fed your spreadsheet into a computer and asked it what to do, the amswer might not turn out to be correct. Bear in mind that these are still early days -it might not feel like it but you have to be prepared for the long haul... but with luck you'll start getting somewhere soon.
BTW did Molly eat between that nice yellow 14.9 and the 24.2 wo hours later? If so could be a food spike.
Yes she had a little food...shall I give 1u then and see what tomorrow brings
Whatever you feel happiest with. 1u should be safe and let you get some sleep tonight!
I'll do 1, and see the results tomorrow morning, thank you for your help
Don't be discouraged by the high number, Sue. It happens....
What exactly are you feeding Molly at the moment?
I think one unit is the right choice. A lower dose may stop those numbers bouncing around. And hopefully you'll get some good sleep....
No she went back to her usual ps number but at least went down daytime so that’s an improvement for us right now, although still didn’t go low enough. I think it’s time for another increase tomorrow if the ProZinc experts approve ..
I'm glad you are trying the 1 unit. I think a good "do over" for a few days will show us needed missing data because we haven't seen her at the starting dose. It can always be raised if need be.
She's having Mac's, very low carb wet food
Oh no, that's a shame, but like you said, we both had pretty good numbers today up until tonight x
Molly's BG this morning 24.9 , so given 1u to see how she goes, I have to go out so can't do another test until late...Just wondering what bg test kit you all use, I use a human one, I just wondered if alphatrak pet one is better, or more accurate x
We use Accu-Chek Performa Nano - quick reliable and small blood sample needed. So far it's been ok although I get annoyed with it often as it doesn't show the numbers I want to see!
Never wondered about changing it to a pet one, will be interested to hear what the others will say..
I'm thinking about buying a new one because I've heard the pet ones are more accurate, and also the test strips for the one I have at the moment are getting harder to find, as it's quite old, it was my late husband's, and he had it for years
Pet meters...hmm. Some people use them because that's what their vet tells them to use (if they support home testing at all) because they are deemed to be "more accurate". But the vast majority of people here use human meters which are absolutely fine, and test strips are much cheaper (pet meter strips cost a fortune). The important thing is to stick to one or the other, and not use both types at different times and post a mixture of readings in your spreadsheet... sounds an obvious thing not to do but it has been known and just muddies the already muddy waters even further.
But as you say your meter is quite old and strips are hard to find, then yes - why not invest in a shiny new human meter. Monica's sounds as good as any.
I think I will get a new one, are there any in particular you would recommend,
I'll have a scout round for the one you use x
I think the one Monica uses is for sale in Boots for around £25 including probably ten strips. You may find it slightly cheaper, I don't know. One of the things to be aware of when choosing a meter is availability/cost of strips - the pet meter ones could be as much as £1 each but human meter ones much less. Unless you have pet insurance that covers these supplies, you may want to shop around. Many people here buy their strips from ebay - as long as you check to make sure the seller is reputable you should be ok.
I love my pet meter.... I use an Alphatrak. That being said, the strips are about 2-3x more expensive then most human meters. It is worth the trade off to me but if the cost were an issue I would get a human meter. What you want to look for its a meter that takes a tiny 0.3 sample size.
Thanks Janet x
I don't think 1u is enough looking at her spreadsheet, but I'll keep it at 1 for the next day or two
Looks like the 1.0U did well. Don't be disheartened as she is probably still bouncing from the green the other morning. As Eliz stated, a lower dose can sometimes help them balance out. Definitely keep getting those before bed tests, the majority of kitties run lower overnight for an idiopathic reason . Also, as Diana stated, most of us use human meters because strips are more affordable. I do have an AT2 as well but I mainly use it if I'm doing a curve or I get a low number and my boy is acting fine. He'll still get a snack but it helps me from over carbing him but I have learned how he responds, which is not to say another kitty will do the same. Our other saying is "know they cat" .
Have you considered purchasing syringes to draw the insulin from the pen cartridge? I'm sure Eliz, Diana, and Monica can help you find some .
I had some syringes from my vet when the cartridge stock had run out, but they only go up in 0.5u so might as well stick to the Vetpen, I've looked for them, but nowhere does it say they can be used with Caninsulin, Caninsulin ones only seem to go up in 0.5u, i don't know where I can get the right ones....This is all really beginning to stress me out....It's so up and down all the time, yet a couple of weeks ago during the day it was pretty steady. And also the +3 am tests as well...
All this bouncing up and down, surely can't be any good for her?
well that's why we suggested lowering the dose for a few days to stop the bouncing. then we can HOPEFULLY get the preshots down a little and reevaluate the dose.
Thanks Janet, I'll keep it at 1u and see how she goes
Strange readings this morning. Molly's amps was 13.1, gave her 1u, and her + 4bg was 18.1...?
Not wildly strange... she was probably rising at amps anyway, and I'm guessing you have fed her since that test, so a smallish rise isn't overly alarming... but do whatever tests you can for the rest of the day so we can see the fuller picture.
She had breakfast but nothing since 9am
We still need more data though to see if the 1u on a rising bg will hold her reasonably steady or whether she will zoom up high again... one or two numbers in isolation don't give as much info as more during a full cycle.
I'll do regular tests throughout the day
Hi Sue, for some reason I din't get any notifications for the latest comments, good thing I wanted to check on you anyway..
Interesting yellow AMPS this morning but did not go down much at all mid cycle last two days.. Again I am all too familiar with this, similar thing happened to Josie on many occasions.
We are all so eager to find a pattern in Molly's response to the insulin but it might not happen, she might just carry on giving us random readings in the mix for no apparent reason..
You are concerned that 'all this bouncing is surely not good for her' which is true, it is not ideal but it's mainly for cats bouncing over a long period of time.
I know it's hard to watch them being in high numbers as I've been there too, but it's important to hold the dose for a few days to eliminate the bounce if there is one and give the numbers a chance to flatten out. Then you can see more clearly whether it's the right dose or needs adjusting.
For the first time in weeks Josie got some beautiful blues mid cycle today which was a very nice surprise but sadly pmps shot right up into the reds so I have my own bouncing to deal with at the moment as well..
Hang in there, we'll get through this together bounce buddy!
As for meters yes I am very happy with our Accu Chek and we find it very convenient that we can just to go to Boots and take the box of strips off the shelves whenever we are running out of them. ( and we seem to be going through a crazy amount! )
Then again luckily we have Pet Insurance through Tesco and they pay for most of Josie's meds and supplies at the moment..
Banging heads is right, it's really getting me down, but we'll carry on with 1u and see how we get on. Glad you had some good numbers today xx...Bounce buddies, I like that
Caninsulin is a U-40 insulin. You can order U-40 syringes with half unit markings online .
Here's a link to the one's I used with a U-40 insulin: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/16363/carepoint-vet-u-40-syringe-29g-half-unit
ETA: Just remembered you are in the UK. Ignore that link . @Elizabeth and Bertie or @Diana&Tom should be able to help you with places better than I .
@Sue Hammond , this is the cheapest place to get U40 syringes (ie suitable for Caninsulin) in the UK. These syringes have half unit markings, but you can also 'eyeball' .25 of a unit or less...
Omg this chick. So a new member came in whose cat was just diagnosed that day and prescribed 5 units to start. So gayle and I were saying how that's not safe. I put a link to fdmb and she's like don't put any references to fdmb and how that group is not helpful. And I'm like Seriously? Ok I need to leave this group then. And I got out of there. Crazy! Wth is her problem? She must have had a personal problem with someone. Lol. Crazy.
Thank you D
Thanks very much for your help x
Gayle is not helpful at all, and just ends up making owners, myself included feel very bad, she actually said to me I will end up killing Molly if I don't get her Diabetes under control, she was also extremely rude
Yes that page is best avoided.
Well I don't know what's going on again with Mollys bg, the last two days, she has been in the pinks section, this morning she's in the dark green 5.5 bg, so I'm not giving insulin this morning... have a look at her spreadsheet, see if anyone can work out what's going on, I'm sure I haven't a clue.... Nothing has changed in regard to diet, still feeding Mac's low carb wet food..
I've ordered some syringes, thanks so much for your help
Huh, interesting. Well it does show that the 1 unit was def enough. Maybe her pancreas is kicking in a bit on its own. Could mean a slightly lower dose might be the answer. I know you can't do 0.75 yet, but you could try.5 for a few days and see what happens. it may help even out the numbers so you get two shootable numbers instead of one high and one low.
Hi Janet, won't giving just .5 give her higher results throughout the day? I still don't really understand how all this works,
She's also losing a little weight, as she was/ is still overweight, so maybe that's reflecting in her bg results? X
Was she overweight?
Right now when you do 1 unit it was too low to shoot in the morning. I'm wondering if the dose is lowered a little if by morning it's only a yellow number rather then green, it can be shootable..... Therefore bringing the overall preshots down. Balancing out the preshots rather then having her boomerang from high to low. You could continue with the one unit a few more days if you want to see what happens. This is just an idea. It's all trial and error.
Her bg +3 is 7.8, and that's 3 hours after breakfast x
Yes she was, still is, but it's coming off slowly ...She's a very big cat in size though, not just extra weight, she weighs 5.5 kg
So give 0.5 at night and see how that goes?
I agree with Janet.
I think Miss Molly's pancreas is maybe pulsing out some insulin intermittently. That is a good sign if that's the case....
Oh gosh!! I really hope so x
Molly's + 6 is 10.0 bg, an hour after eating so doing quite well so far today
Molly's BG tonight 20.1, should I still give 1u .....I'm a bit later than normal as had to nip out xx
I thought it best stick to 1u, hope I did the right thing
That's perfectly fine.
Molly's bg this morning 20.1, can I ask why this keeps happening, up one morning and throughout the day, the next low in the morning, and good reading for most of the day apart from evenings, she has been on the same food
Hello bounce buddy, just looked at your SS, with these numbers I'm not surprised you still haven't been able to figure out how all this works!
I'm sorry, sadly I don't have an explanation for you but your SS just got me thinking and I just wanted to say that with such various preshot numbers like Molly's, her case is the perfect example of why it is so important that you are testing her every time to see whether it is safe to shoot or not and how good it is that you are doing all these important tests! Many people don't know they should they just shoot kitty with the same dose every day cos their vet told them to...
I don't think you said before why your vet refuses to prescribe ProZinc? I'm just curious.
Also I think I asked you before but not sure if you replied, has Molly had any recent bloodwork done to eliminate any underlying issues that might influence her fluctuating readings?
I think as Janet and Elizabeth have suggested, there could be some pancreas activity going on which would explain the fluctuating readings. In such a case all you can do really is keep monitoring and trying to dose appropriately (much easier said than done I know). It may be that with time, numbers will even out more which would enable you to be more confident with a "usual" dose. And I echo what Monica has said as I've been typing - this is the perfect example of why testing is so important. You're doing that and keeping Molly safe which is the main thing. Sadly there is no quick fix for a lot of cats with FD, it is an ongoing labour of love to be watchful and just do the best we can on a day to day basis.
Thanks everyone, I would never give shots without testing first.. My vet and the nurse said there's no need to test at all, i was shocked they could even suggest such a thing...She has had full blood work done a couple of weeks ago, with nothing abnormal found....Is it best to stick to 1u for the next few days. I find it very bewildering that sometimes her amps has been only 5.5 and stayed pretty good (for her) throughout the day... 7.8bg+3 and 10+6, then shot up to 20.1...My husband was insulin dependent diabetic, and I must say looking after humans s relatively easy, compared to our fur babies
Ok, so +3 bg is 10.3 after giving 1u at 9am...+6 bg is 11.3
Hi all, Molly is all over the place again, her bg pre shot was 14.3, now +3 it's 24.1.. yesterday was the same more or less.. started 11.6, and rose to +3 19.9bg
Can I also ask how long you can keep insulin for once it's started to be used...I've seen 28 days, is that correct?.... If that's the case, a lot is going to be wasted
The syringes I have been sent are 0.5 which is the same doses as the pens, I thought they had 0.25 doses...Are there any with that dose
These are the ones sent
Separate names with a comma.