911 Not eating!!!

This is a continuation of my "Limping Right Paw" and then my "Not eating while on antibiotics" threads. Things have gotten WORSE!! Sonny has not left his water bowl...he is just sitting there with his face in it. He has barely touched food. He finally ate a tiny bit of tunafish at 5 pm. That was after not touching pate or even boiled chicken which he always loved! Since his BG was SO high at the vet...509!! Even though he wasnt eating earlier, vet said it was ok to give him 1 unit, because it may make him feel better and eat...that was at 4 pm and at 5 he ate the little bit of tuna. Now he is just sitting at his water, and not eating anything....im a MESS!!!

 

Oh boy, have you tested him? What's his BG now?

 

No he wont even let me

 

I think I'd be calling the vet, could be pancreatitis.

 

He is just sitting with his face in the water bowl. He was at the vet earlier, they took blood and urine but dont have results. His BG was thru the roof earlier but i gave him 1 unit and after that he ate a tiny bit.

 

What is his usual dose of insulin? What type of insulin and how long ago was his shot?

ETA we are all in different time zones so how many hours ago was his shot is what I should have typed!

 

Are you able to assist feed? This is probably the best option at this point.

 

Hi Barry....Welcome. I haven't caught up with what you've had going on but giving insulin isn't going to make him want to eat unless his numbers are too low nor stop him from eating. Looks like you need to start syringe feeding, you need to get food into him. He needs the food and he needs the insulin to make energy to keep his body working correctly.

 

He usually gets 2 units when he needs it. He hasnt had insulin in a few months and I would test every week or so. Numbers were usually in between 90-180. I havent tested him in a week and a half because of all going on with his paw. I didnt want to upset him more. He was acting totally normal as always....eating, drinking, peeing, playing...all normal as usual. Today...stopped eating...went to vet...bg was 509! Told me to start on 2 units, but he wouldnt eat...vet said if he eats a tiny bit, to give him 1 unit...which i did. Just laying by water and he ate another handful of tuna a few minutes ago. He gets vetsulin

 

What would i syringe feed him? And how do i do that?

 

You can cut the canned food with water to a consistency that will go through a needle-less syringe. All-meat baby food (no added flavors esp. onion or garlic!) is also good. Check out the liver shake and the assist-feeding video.

THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS

Syringe/Assisted Feeding (Video and Tips)

 

I will... thanks...all he is doing is drinking water. He wont leave...his fur is soaked. He leaves the water for 5 min then goes back. He will take small bites of tuna in between

 

Im a nervous wreck...He was FINE yesterday...how does this happen??

 

How is Sonny, is he eating or have you been able to syringe feed him?

 

My husband was able to give him handfuls of tuna (i know its not the best but it was all i could think of after not eating his regular food) He had like 3 handfuls...its better than nothing

 

If Sonny was mine I would ask the vet about sub q fluids--maybe even run a line for a day or 2 and then follow up with sub q--(at home)
glad he ate something

 

What is that?

 

Glad he ate something. If he likes tuna, maybe some of the tuna juice mixed with his regular food would entice him.

 

Just my 2 cents--
I do not know all of Sonnys history so I cannot speak to him-
They can run a fluid line in his vein and it will flush him.. He would have to stay in the hospital for that-
OR you could do sub q fluids at home (both of my cats get them for kidney issues )
It is a lactated ringer that you would hook up to something high (it runs on gravity) so a hanger on a door etc.... and push the needle usually in the scruff and a bubble of fluid will form and the body will use it as needed-it sounds like he is feeling dehydrated from he way he is drinking.... but it could be many things? Regardless of the cause I have seen fluids do amazing things to speed recovery times.
You will need a script from your vet for the fluids or you can get them from the Dr but it will cost much more than other places --(walgreens-KV vet)

 

if your vet feels it is appropriate to do you can just bring him in for the sub qs to do it for you under the skin and take him home-it does not take long-
sub q = subqutanious

 

He might feel a bit better now that he has some food in his stomach. Can you try to test him now? If so let us know what the reading is and how many hours since his shot?

 

He just ate a,little bit from my husbands hand...but it was like 3 handfuls...

 

He went down a bit. It was only one unit i gave him because he wasnt eating...vet said i should...so he went from 509 to 472. The shot was at 4pm...so im going to wake up to feed him at 4am and shoot with 2 units then

 

I was just surprised that he is still so thirsty!! The vet gave him fluid today when i brought him

 

Also, does anyone know how i can get help financially for what i feel will be large medical bills?? Especially if he needs to be hospitalized. I am only working part time and my husband lost his job. I already have a care credit account but the limit was $500 and just this week already met that limit. They wont up the limit either. My vet usually lets me keep a balance and pay when i can but the hospitals dont let you have a balance. I cant afford thousands. Sonny is my baby...the one constant in my life, he is always there for me and i have to do all i can to help him...i just dont know how

 

Going to bump this --
just want to add if fluids are needed more it is much less costly to do them at home-

 

Ok You gave a half dose of insulin at 4pm and 6 hours later he is at 472. Is that correct? If so, I don't think you need to worry about him going too low tonight as he is likely just past the nadir and his numbers are still significantly high.

I'm sorry but I am not sure where you might get some assistance as I am from Canada. There is a foundation here called Farley's Foundation but they may be Canadian only. There is DCIN who help with diabetic cats but I'm not sure how far their assistance extends ie if pancreatitis was the issue for example. Hopefully someone else from the US will chime in.

 

Thank you! I am a mess!

 

Yes...i didnt want to give him the full 2 units of vetsulin while he wasnt eating

 

He has been sleeping now for the past hour or so...which is normal for him. At least he is not sitting with his chin in the water bowl...

 

Barri, I think you need to get some rest and regroup in the morning. It's very stressful and tiring worrying about our furbabies but if we don't get our rest, then we can't look after them as well as we want to. We'll all still be here to help you out.

 

Perhaps you might find some help from one of the organizations listed in this post: Financial Help Links.

If I were in your shoes I would check his urine for ketones. You can pick up ketostix in the morning. They're available at most pharmacies. They run around $15. Follow the directions on the label.

I agree with Linda. Leave food out for Sonny just in case he wants to eat and then try to get some rest.

 

Thank you! I will check those links. He slept for a long while, & just ate another handful of tuna

 

I second Jill's recommendation to test for ketones as soon as you can. Post the ketone test result as soon as you have it. (Anything more than trace requires immediate vet visit.) Keeping fingers and paws crossed for a negative test result. I'm glad that Sonny managed to eat some little bit for you. Keep coaxing as best you can.

I really feel for you. I know that horrible scared and helpless feeling and also how awful it is when your little one won't eat. We're all here to do anything we can to help you both. Praying that Sonny's appetite will return to normal today. I also hope that by the time you pick up this message that you'll have managed to get a little bit of rest. Will check in on you both later.




Mogs
.

 

How is Sonny this AM?

 

He is still drinking water. He ate some handfuls of tuna at 4am and i gave him his 2 units of insulin.

 

Just wondering, when you say "handfuls" of tuna, what would that be in say, tablespoons?

 

Probably like almost a full one. BUT GREAT NEWS!! He just ate some more tuna AND some pate....OFF HIS PLATE! He is still drinking, but not hanging in the water bowl and seems WAY more alert this morning!! I didnt want to feed him a lot for fear of vomiting, and will give more food in couple of hours. I am off work today so will be with him!!

 

Glad he's eating better and that you'll be home to keep an eye on him!

 

That's wonderful news!

 

Barri,
I'm SO SO sorry I didn't get back with you about the syringe feeding. My elderly neighbor had a stroke, I've been taking care of her and just now had a chance to check back in with you. This video below is wonderful showing syringe feeding.

WOOHOO on eating! If tuna's the only thing he'll eat at times, let him eat Tuna! If you have to mix tuna with his food, mix it! You CAN do this - you're already on the right path....hope you got some rest last night.



BIG HUGE HUGS,

.

 

Thank you all!! It was a rough night, but it looks like he is slowly getting better. He ate some more pate (friskies turkey/giblets) and some tuna at 9:30. He ate it on his own, in his usual feeding spot in the kitchen. He is not eating as much as usual but hopefully his full appetite will return soon. As long as he is eating i am happy!! I was so nervous he would have to be hospitalized. We should get the results of his blood work tomorrow. I am convinced (even though i might be wrong) that the antibiotics he was on did something bad to him. Again, thank you all for being there and your concern. This is truly the best place you never want to be

 

Barri, the antibiotics can indeed mess with their whole stomach and digestive system. Have you also give any probiotics of some kind? The antibiotic will kill off even good bacteria in the colon - it needs to be reestablished for digestion to work correctly again. I use a human probiotic for mine...

 

I stopped the antibiotics yesterday as per the vet. No, i havent given a probiotic because i didnt know about it.

 

He also seems to be tiring of the Friskies Turkey & Giblets...the Friskies Poultry platter and Supreme Supper are under 10% carbs...correct?? I cant seem to find the list

 

Here's the food chart....both T&G and Supreme Supper are 8%, Poultry Platter is 9%. LINK:

http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Barri, oh I remember learning how much I really didn't know when I arrived - things that even helped ME! Probiotics - ask the vet for some Forti-Flora....that will help reestablish the good bacteria and most cats REALLY like it.

HUGS and HUGS! You're definitely learning thru 'trial by fire'....good job!

 

Thank you so much! All i kept thinking was that i was able to keep him healthy for almost 2 years with his diabetes, and then something out of the blue like this happens....just really threw me for a loop!!

 

Hi Barri,

I am very happy to hear that Sonny is eating again. It is also very good to hear the relief in your voice.

For information, Sonny hanging over the water bowl like that may have been a sign of nausea or excess stomach acid. I wasn't 100% sure last night. I went to check on Tanya's Site but my intertube connection was playing silly b*ggers and I couldn't access the site. I tried again today and the page about nausea and appetite problems does say that such behaviour may be either a sign of nausea or dehydration. Here's a link to the page. I recommend bookmarking it because it has a very useful symptom checker and also a list of treatments. It's a very useful reference source.

Nausea, vomiting and excess stomach acid - symptoms and treatments

I'm glad you're getting to spend the day with Sonny; it will help you both.




Mogs
.

 

Thank you! Thank you!! The vet did say he was dehydrated...how he got that way i have no idea! He always has fresh water out everyday...he did wear the cone for 5 days so its possible he wasnt drinking a lot. The vet also gave him fluids so i thought that might have made him better. I definately think he was nauseous because of the non eating and vomiting the water....he is slowly returning...not playing really but eating more and more alert

 

He also has not been diagnosed with CKD. ..Is that something a blood test or urine test would show?

 

CKD shows up on bloodwork....

 

Yep.

Info on blood tests from Tanya's Site:

http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_blood_chemistry.htm

With CKD, there may be protein in the urine.


Mogs
.

 

When my kitties act like their getting a little tired of the turkey and giblets, I feed them the Mariners Catch for a couple of days. I think it's 6 carbs and they LOVE it.

 

I just dont like that he really has no energy...he gets up to eat and drink but its like the antibiotics and very high BG drained him of all energy

 

He's a sick baby right now. When you, as a human, dealing with these same issues, you don't feel like doing much of anything other than eat, sleep and pee either....

HUGS - believe me, we understand...

 

Barri, if you haven't already, please get some ketostix to test Sonny's urine to see if he's throwing ketones...

 

Thank you!!! I know you're right

 

I called the vet this morning to let them know about Sonny eating again and asked them about the ketones. When they drew blood, Sonny also had a full bladder so they got urine and tested it...all good!!

 

Barri, you do need to get ketone test strips as quickly as possible. If he starts throwing ketones again, you need to know as immediately as possible. Any pharmacy that carries diabetic supplies will probably have them but I'd call ahead to check...

 

I will!! First thing tomorrow morning before i go to work!!

 

Ok...so the vet just called me and got blood work back. He said he is in the very beginning stages of kidney disease. He said he wants to get his sugar back under control and see if that works. I asked him what is the medication for CKD and he said "a special diet" I just said OK, Knowing i would come here and ask. I DO NOT give him perscription food for his diabetes and just didnt feel like i got a correct answer for this. I have been going to this vet for almost 2 years, but am considering switching because something just feels off. Any thoughts?? How do you treat diabetes with CKD

 

Hi Barri,

The best place on the web for information on CKD is Tanya's Site. They also have a support group. (Link is in left hand column on site's home page.) There is a huge amount of information on the site. I recommend starting to read it sooner rather than later since it takes a long time to get through it all.

The special diet your vet is probably referring to is a prescription diet for cats with kidney issues. They are, to the best of my knowledge, low in protein. The general view I've got from reading Tanya's Site and some of the threads on the support group board is that low protein diets may not be appropriate for cats with early stage renal insufficiency because they can lead to the cat losing muscle mass (and maintaining weight can be a big issue with CKD). Saoirse was diagnosed with early stage II renal insufficiency. I carried on feeding her high protein, low carb food. I didn't really have a choice; with her pancreatitis issues the Sheba pouches are the only food I've found that she can really tolerate. It's too high in phosphorus so I add a phosphorus binder to her meals. Saoirse's labs have been fairly stable on this regimen (anti-jinx, anti-jinx). If she could eat a lower phosphorus food, she would not have needed the binders yet.

If you can find a low phosphorus food that Sonny likes to eat that will be a good start. I think Dr Lisa Pierson has phosphorus levels on her food charts and there are food charts available at Tanya's Site, too (again the links are in the left hand column).

Here's a link to information on nutritional requirements of CKD cats from Tanya's Site.


Mogs
.

 

Thanks Mogs! Only problem is the low phosphorus foods are higher in carbs...would rather keep a low carb food fornthe diabetes with a binder

 

Not necessarily. Check out this list: Food list under 10% carbs, under 1% phosphorus (2016)

 

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! I was hoping for a list like this! I was so nervous that i would have to go on a RX diet again...

 

You're welcome!