PMPS too low to shoot UPDATE

Squallie's PMPS was 138, stalled for 30 minutes and retested BG was 125. Doesn't look like Mr. Bear will be getting a shot tonight! Just hope this doesn't break the cycle and give him high AM numbers! Fingers and paws crossed!

 

So exciting! Fingers and paws crossed for Squallie here too!

 

Thanks!

 

Look at that pancreas work!

 

Last test before feeding was 144, still too low for me to shoot. Really, really hoping he doesn't have outrageously high AMPS. But..at least we will sleep tonight!

 

Sleep well, Lucy and Squallie! You both deserve a good night's rest.

Psst, Mr. Liver, do Squallie a favor and don't dump too much glucose tonight. We want to see Squallie in good numbers tomorrow morning. Thanks!

 

Thank you, Shane, hope Mr. Liver listens to you!

 

Yeah - get to sleep tonight!

 

Thanks!

 

Good morning, sunshines! (It's gray and dreary here today, ugh)
Squallie's AMPS was only 184! But now I don't know how much insulin to give him. Should I stay with the .75 or maybe lower it to .50, since it seems like his pancreas is trying to kick in?

 

I'm no Vetsulin expert but you were right to lower it last week to 0.75 so I think listen to your instincts and go with 0.5.

Way to go, Squallie! (And thanks for listening, Mr. Liver!)

 

Lol, thank you for warning off Mr. Liver last night! I was so surprised and delighted to see that 184, I really expected something a lot higher.

 

On second thought, just to be a devil's advocate, you could do 0.75 today and see how low it takes him and then we'll have more data. Can he get 0.75 and stay above 50 on his own? Or maybe with a little food to steer him.... And if not then he'll have earned a reduction at these numbers.

Since it's daytime and you will be awake, if you're available to test all day, I think I'd go for the 0.75 and see how it goes. What do you think?

 

Lol, I just gave him his shot before I read this, and only gave 0.5. Hope he gets a good day from it, if not I'll know to go back to 0.75.

 

Safe surfing, Squallie!

 

Thanks! You're probably right, I should have given him 0.75, but since he had no insulin last night and was only at 184 this AM...Just crossing fingers and paws for another good day in the greens!

 

Lucy, if he was my cat, I would have given him the reduced dose at that number. If his numbers are good all day, you'll know it's time for a reduced dose. Maybe he's ready for it!

 

Wow Lucy and Squallie! I am late to the party. Good going Squallie!!!!! He is doing great! Keep us posted.

 

Thanks Debby, fingers and paws crossed!

 

Thanks Bobbie! I will definitely keep you posted!

 

Okay folks, +3 hrs and he's at 86, not too shabby!

 

Wow! Looks like he's trying to get that pancreas back in action for sure!

 

I hope so, that would be just wonderful!

 

Yeah!!! Go Squallie, go!!!! I've got goosies.....

 

71 at +5

 

Wow! Squallie is the only cat who can work Vetsulin like that!

 

Awesome!! When you see a 71 at +5 do you feel like you need to give a snack just in case he continues to go down at 6-8?

 

Lol, yes, I do. It was even worse yesterday, seeing him in the low 60s and not steering him with a little food, talk about anxiety!!!

 

So, are you saying you don't give any food? I'm trying to learn here, I think I steer too soon and perhaps sabotage things.

 

Hiya, Lucy! Just now had a chance to check out this thread ... and WOW, this is really exciting!!! Why don't you just pop on out here with Squallie, and have him rub off a little of that whatever he's got going onto "Brat"-Bat? (As my girl has recently gone back to needing a dose all the time now. Ha, started happening the week before her dental was scheduled; go figure. And it looked like we were so close, dang it...)
So seeing how well Squallie's doing has me grinning from ear to ear right now; your thread just made my afternoon!

ETA: Yep, it's scary when you start seeing those low #s!

 

Hey Robin!!! Welcome Back!!! I missed you!!

 

For what it's worth: If you're around all the time (like I am) so are able to re-check - and you know your cat's patterns pretty well - I don't know that you always need to start steering with food if he's above, say, 60 on your human-type meter. Because sometimes they just start rising again in the next half-hour... but that said, if you're really worried, you can always give just 1/8 can low-carb FF (that's about 0.375 oz) when he hits that level, and then check him in about 15-20 minutes to make sure he's risen a bit. And at night, when I'm dying to just go to sleep and Bat-Bat nadirs at around 90-110 (that's roughly 59-72 on a human meter, based on a presumed 35% differential), I usually just give her 1/8 to 2/8 can low-carb FF, just so that I don't have to lie awake fretting.

The general caveat is: ECID, and it all depends on what you know about your own cat's unique patterns, your experience level/confidence level as relates to whether your cat can drop like a stone or not, etc. I guess I'd say I'm more cautious in the overnight cycle, just because I'm not going to be awake to test.

 

Thanks, sweetie - missed you, too!
And did you see we have another Bubba in our midst? His mom's name is Olivia.

 

I think I should have written that as "...just because I'm not willing to be awake to test." Heck, I'm gettin' OLD ...

 

No, I did not, I will seek her out.

 

She'd probably love to see your Bubba's picture!
This is her thread: Just started glucose meter testing and have ????

 

@Bobbie And Bubba, yesterday I did not try to steer Squallie with a little food. I wanted to see if he would stay in safe greens by himself. The two days before, though, I did steer with food. I was too chicken not to, lol!

@Robin&BB, I'm with Bobbie and Bubba, glad to see you back! So funny, just last night I was wondering what had happened to you, because I hadn't seen any posts by you in a while! Sorry to hear Bat-Bat has gone back to needing a dose all the time. . Hope you can get her back to where she was!

 

Cool, thanks Robin, I'll have to get in touch with her as soon as things calm down, looks like she had a hypo event today......yikes!!

 

Hi @Robin&BB! Good to see you! Hope all is well with you. Sorry to hear Bat-Bat is back on the juice.

 

@Squalliesmom , @granadilla - Thanks for the kind words, you guys! Bat had been going anywhere from 3 to 6 days without her dinky dose for a quite a while, then - bam, just like that! - she started with the higher #s the week right before her dental; she's been on the wonky side ever since. And as she was given a totally clean bill of health, this is particularly frustrating ... Oh well, just gotta keep on wearing those patience pants!

 

@Squalliesmom, Hi Lucy, what was Squallie's PMPS? So curious! He's been on an independent streak lately so I'm on the edge of my chair watching his numbers!

 

I was just coming here to post them, lol.

I tested him at 8:00 pm and he was at 122, thought I'd stall for 30 minutes and test again, he was at 107. I'd say he's not getting a shot again tonight!

 

I've got goosie again!! Go Squallie!!

 

Wow! It's like watching an action-packed movie! I'm on the edge of my seat! Maybe it's time to take Squallie down even further to 0.25?

I wonder if it's possible to give mini doses of Vetsulin? Some of the Lantus cats get micro-doses of 0.1, which is just a couple of drops. @Shiloh & Rhonda did that with her kitty until Shiloh was in good green numbers regularly and was ready for an OTJ trial. I know Vetsulin drops kitties faster and a bit more harshly than Lantus so I don't know if the micro-doses would work. But if Squallie keeps giving you these numbers with low doses, it might be worth a try to see if just a couple of drops will get him a little lower without getting TOO low.

Go Squallie!!

 

Its a U-40 insulin, so you can use U-100 syringes to microdose; every 0.5 tick mark = 0.2 units of a U-40 insulin.

 

That's brilliant!

 

We have a conversion chart you can print out, too.

 

Thank you, that's a big help!!!

 

Well, SquallieBear is only 154 at AMPS, and that's with zero insulin last night! I'm going to stall for a bit to see if he comes up appreciably; I'm not going to shoot at anything under 180 because I only have 1 test strip left till late this afternoon, when I can get some more.

 

Wow! Looks like it's time for micro doses! Go Mr. Bear!

 

If you push the syringplunger in firmlyN insert into the insulin, and reease, it draws up a pretty tiny dose. Maybe see what amounts you get using colored water and a syringe a few times.

 

Whoo Hoo! Looks like this boy wants off the juice! (Anti jinx). Sounds like a solid plan. Lucy, it looks to me like you could "chase" the number. So, once you get strips again, if he is too low to shoot, then feed him and wait a couple hours and retest. If he is over 180, shoot your token amount (whatever you decide) Then test again in 12 hours. If he is too low, repeat the chase. You are most likely to be shooting off 12/12, maybe 14 one day, 16 another - whenever he needs a drop, but no more often then +12. It's nerve wracking, but usually doesn't take long. The idea is that you are catching him when he is over your target number and giving him a little bit of insulin to drop lower. Make sense?

Your other option is to continue with 12/12, planning on stalling and sometimes skipping. That will work fine too but also a little nerve wracking. Well, let's face it - this whole dance is nerve wracking!

One fun thing to do is test before eating and 20 minutes later. If his number falls rather than rises, his pancreas is waking up!

So we generally consider a cat in remission if they are in the 40-120 range without insulin for two weeks. Paws crossed!

 

My Smokey needs Squallie's vibes. I'm definitely here. I have learned when Smokey's changes dose he needs to stay at the dose for at least 3 days to adjust. Before any other change.

Keep going Squallie!!!!

 

I tried this last night and I couldn't seem to draw up any fluid. I also tried counting drops, but 1 unit only gave me 2 drops so I don't think I can dose anything smaller than 0.5, at least not with these syringes.

 

Maybe pick up some U100s (0.5 markings) and use the conversion chart? You can shoot 0.1 with those.

 

That's my next plan of action!

I stalled for over an hour and his BG still only read 160. I finally fed a very late breakfast (my IBD girl vomited, I think straying that far from her schedule upset her tummy) , and I'll just have to see how Squall does with no insulin today. Crossing fingers and paws that he doesn't have really high numbers this PM!

 

Do I need a Rx for these?

 

Depends on the state. Some places, no. I'd call your drug store and ask. Would your vet be willing to give you a prescription? They are often reluctant because you are using a syringe that is not made for your insulin (U40 vs U100). They are sometime suspicious of the conversion chart.

The other possibility is using a magnifying glass. Sometimes people can measure 0.25 on a U40 syringe of they have "help"

 

Folks have noted that slowly twisting the syringe barrel while applying slight pressure has allowed them to get small drops.
Your mileage may vary.

 

I'l try that, thanks!

 

This is so exciting Lucy!!

 

Well, no insulin last night, no insulin this morning and none again tonight. Squallie's PMPS is 125, and there's no point stalling, it's not going to come up enough for me to shoot.

I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. While his BG is 125 with the Relion meter, it's 199 with the Alphatrak. Since I never really use the Alphatrak, I am unfamiliar with the "no shot" numbers for it. It seems to me that 199 is pretty high. Should I be giving him insulin, based on the Alphatrak reading? I only tested with it so I could show the numbers to my vet, as that is what he uses, but now I'm a little confused.

 

Maybe a tag @Robin&BB as she is familiar with the Alphatrak.

 

I looked at @BJM's reference notes but I'm not sure I completely understand if the veterinary numbers are close to or equivalent to the Alphatrak numbers.

 

I believe they may be; it is something to discuss with your vet.

 

Cheering you on Lucy! You go Squallie! You can buy the Relion U100's at Walmart. Just ask for the syringes with the 1/2 marks. My box says 3/10mlcc, 31 gauge, 8mm in length. The box is white with a purple strip. They have orange caps.

 

I don't know about Alphatraks, I just wanted to cheer you and Squallie on! Great numbers!

 

Thank you, I'll look for them!

 

Thanks, Shane!

 

@Robin&BB, maybe you can help answer this question for me? Squallie's BG was 125 tonight on the Relion glucometer, and 199 on the Alphatrak. 125 is too low for me to shoot, especially since I don't have syringes I can microdose with. But 199 seems so high to me! I don't know what the no-shot number is using the Alphatrak, and what the "normal" range is. I hoped maybe you could tell me, since you regularly use an Alphatrak.

Thanks so much!

 

I have always gone by 200 on my AT2, without any problems. So I'd say you're fine shooting at that 199 on an AT2 meter. But if you have any concern, do another AT2 test using the opposite ear. That's what I've always done if I thought I was seeing a wonky #.

 

Thank you, that helps a lot. What is the optimum "normal" range using the Alphatrak?

 

An additional note: There's still a lot of conjecture as to whether or not that 30% to 40% reference range differential between readings on a human glucometer vs. an AT2 would hold true at the mid to upper ends of the range as well as at the low end. Nobody really knows for certain, as yet - except as relates to the low end #s in the reference ranges, as cited in Dr. Rand's articles/dosing protocols.

From your SS, I can see that you're heading toward "dinky-dose" land, so would be great if you could get some U-100 syringes marked on the half unit & use the conversion table; makes it a little easier to manage those really small doses!

Here's something I keep in mind these days, given where Bat-Bat's at with her dosing at present (perhaps you'll find it useful in some way): As I know that her BG generally rises about 60 points after her AM or PM meal, I always keep that in mind now when I look at her AM/PM preshot # because (since the renal threshold occurs somewhere between 250-300 mg/dL in most cats, depending on which veterinary article you're reading). And I want to keep her from crossing that threshold as much as possible.

For anyone viewing my SS, I must caution you that while I shoot Bat-Bat at much lower #s on ProZinc than is normally recommended, I am able to do so ONLY because:
1) She's on a really, really tiny dose now;
2) I'm always here to monitor;
3) I know her insulin, I know where my cat nadirs and how her body normally reacts to that insulin.

So I would not personally recommend shooting at the same #s as I do AT ANY TIME to anyone else, as every cat is different - and hypoglycemia is always to be avoided.