understanding fluctuating numbers

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by LindanHuey, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. LindanHuey

    LindanHuey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    are these sort of numbers on Huey's spreadsheet OK? I dont quite understand fluctuating numbers,. I know BG goes up after eating, but why after he has also had his shot? And why again early in the morning..is that his body reacting to not having food in his tummy? Just curious. We are going slowly with this. if steady for a week, I'm thinking we should try a little more insulin to try to bring numbers down.
    Due to commitments, it's not been possible to do a full curve, but there is a pretty good pattern showing I think. thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    Reason for edit: update
  2. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    There are many reasons why blood sugar values fluctuate. After a meal it could be what we refer to as a food spike. This phenomenon differs from cat to cat. Observation over time can help you determine if, and to what degree, your kitty experiences food spikes

    It’s important to remember that unlike Vetsulin, Lantus is slow acting and the effects are cumulative. Learning your kittys onset, nadir and duration on Lantus is critical to making sound dosing decisions because whether you go up or down is determined by the lowest value (nadir) for any given cycle. Take care not to increase too much too soon as you could pass over a good dose. The guidelines for SLGS are that increases are made in .25u increments.

    Hang in there and hang in here. Study the information in the yellow flagged posts at the top of the forum and keep asking questions. :cool:
     
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  3. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    It's very common for relatively newly diagnosed kittys to have their numbers seem to be all over the place. They are learning how to work the insulin, which is a hormone, and also getting used to blood sugar numbers than now be lower than what they were used to before they were diagnosed. A very common phenomenon is something we called bouncing. From the New to the Group Sticky Note:

    Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

    As an example, on the 10th, Huey got down to some lovely blues, but he's not used to that, so that evening and the next day his numbers went soaring as he bounced. Another phenomenon that can play with the numbers is something we call New Dose Wonkiness, which is a temporary rise in numbers that happens in some cats, after an increase. It's thought to be due to some of the depot rebuilding and only impacts the first few cycles.

    Speaking of increases, with our Start Low Go Slow method (and even if you were following Tight Regulation), those blues you saw on 1.5 units would mean an increase of 0.25 units to 1.75 units, not a full 1/2 unit increase. Cats are sensitive to small changes in insulin.
     
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  4. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    On 1/11 You wrote in the Remarks on Huey's SS that he ate a Lot of bbq Chicken. Doesn't bbq sauce have sugar in it? His pmps was very high & I'm wondering if it's from the bbq??
     
  5. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    @JoyBee&Ravan The bbq chicken comments were on the 10th, when he also had the lovely blues. Ugly numbers came the next day, though thankfully didn’t last long.
     
  6. LindanHuey

    LindanHuey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    Hi, thanks everyone for comments. Re BBQ chicken, I cook the chicken on the bbq at home, not a store bought one, and we didn't use any sugary sauces, and neither kitty nor puppy get the skin. That is for we humans only, and only occasionally!!
    I've sent the comment re the bouncing, so well said in laymans terms to the vet as well. She is excellent and applauds my efforts in this situation. They dont get alot of diabetic cats, so all this will be useful to any other patients I hope. I will find out about the very small needles..the current ones dont have that measure on them for .25 - even guessing 1/2 a unit is tricky. Kitty cat says thank you too..
     
  7. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Linda, we can't buy the 1/2 unit syringes here in Australia but they are available through the link below. They are pretty quick at delivering them...about a week.
    There are no 0.25 unit syringes made anywhere. To get the 0.25 unit increase dose it is best to use a magnifying glass to see the markings. It not hard...just a bit fiddly but worth doing.
    Glad you have posted over on the Land L page.
    https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/BD-Micr...03ml-pack-of-100/productinfo/BDMICROFINE03ML/


    Here is your post from the main health page....we link the posts for continuity
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/numbers-in-black-sunday-no-vet-to-ask.208691/
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    Reason for edit: added info
  8. LindanHuey

    LindanHuey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    Thanks Bron. I was starting to look and not getting anywhere except confused... is getting .25 easier with a 1/2 unit ? I guess it would be....and if we end up on a whole number, well, we can use the others.
    Phewie!!
     
  9. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Yes. Getting the 1/2 unit syringes is worth it. I used the 1 unit ones for the whole unit doses and the 1/2 unit ones for the in between doses too.
    Not looking forward to the heat for the next 5 days. I hope you have aircon!!
     
  10. LindanHuey

    LindanHuey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    another question..I've found a neighbour who is happy to learn how to inject Huey if we need to be away at the relevant time..Can we put the insulin in the needle for her and leave it in the fridge..it would only be for an hour and half at most.
     
  11. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Lucky you! I’d treasure that neighbour.
    It’s not really recommended because of the lubricant in the needle..... but see what others think... only an hour and half so...
    but make sure you test the BSL before you leave... never just give the insulin without testing.
     
  12. LindanHuey

    LindanHuey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    I will do that for sure..and I might make a seperate post..
     
  13. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    On the Lantus forum you are supposed to make a new post each day...not carry over the same post like you can on the main forum. So you could ask that question in tomorrow’s post. Put the question in the subject line so people can see
     

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